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This is astonishing. > We determined that the issue was being caused by unintended interaction between the Microsoft Teams app and the underlying Android opera

This is astonishing. > We determined that the issue was being caused by unintended interaction between the Microsoft Teams app and the underlying Android operating system. As someone whose organizational policy signs my Teams client out after a couple hours of inactivity, I would love to know how on earth this is possible. I truly am at a loss, and I am furious at the thought that I have been unable to dial 911 for who knows how long. At least I know the ten digit number for my local emergency services, but the average person probably doesn't. This is unacceptable.

INTPenis 5y ago
I can't answer that but I run Teams on Android and it's just a terrible app. Its problems have affected my entire phone before. Like for example when it wouldn't stop blinking and each blink reset whatever I was doing so I had to quickly switch out of it between blinks and then force kill it from Settings.
- badthingfactory 5y ago
  Teams is the absolute worst piece of software I have ever used. Simply logging in only works about 50% of the time. This wouldn't be a big deal if I wasn't randomly forced to the login screen every few days. I experience a different bug every other day. I can't be signed into multiple orgs at once (on desktop) meaning I have to fully sign out/sign in when I want to switch and it takes forever. Notifications are unreliable. I miss Slack so much.
georgemcbay 5y ago
Agreed. As a Pixel/Android user who has never used Microsoft Teams this is still incredibly concerning. A third-party app causing this issue on accident means a third-party app could cause this issue maliciously and any app not part of the base operating system should not be capable of causing an issue interfering with emergency calling. I assume/hope their January 4th fix addresses whatever the issue is at a more fundamental level, but this seems like the sort of thing that should be addressed a lot sooner than a month out.
- bb88 5y ago
  Also more reasons to not use Microsoft Teams. I think an explanation here of what data is being sent to Microsoft Teams and now MS Teams can prevent phone calls is important here. If my organization uses MS Teams, do my phone calls on my personal device go to my company?
  - jmspring 5y ago
    Oh FFS, it’s an issue with app/dialer integration based on Android design and permissions. But, I know it’s popular to bash MS. I’m not a teams fan, but this is taking things a tad far. Edit: dialer has been autocorrected to diaper
    - vladvasiliu 5y ago
      I think the issue is that Teams even tries to do this in the first place. If I want to call someone via Teams, I'll fire up Teams. Or maybe add a button in the address book when I search for someone (I've got this on iOS, don't know if it's a thing on Android). But on the dialler? When I'm there, I expect to be using the phone app to actually call the number I'm dialling. So yes, this does seem to me like legitimate MS bashing. Even if the platform allows for this, they shouldn't be using it. Especially if the app is signed-out or otherwise out of order. Of course "it's for the customer experience" somehow, but come on.
      - birdman3131 5y ago
        Teams is VOIP. Legally they HAVE to allow for and setup 911 calling.* Yes they royally screwed up. But its not like they could have just ignored Ray Baum Act/ Kari's Law. *I think for non static location devices like cellphones or softphones the law does not kick in for a bit. For deskphones or say a voip phone you take home from work it has been in effect for a while now.
        bb88 5y ago
        But they don't need to inject themselves in the dialer. I think that's the clear takeaway.
bit_logic 5y ago
They need to release more technical details on this to restore confidence. How can a sandboxed user installed app with limited permissions cause dialing 911 to fail? How do they know other apps won't cause the same issue? And they mentioned an Android update, but what about the millions of Android phones that aren't getting regular updates? Does that mean there's potentially millions of phones that can't dial 911? I like Pixel and Android, but am seriously thinking of switching to iphone because I really need a phone I can trust will dial 911 when I need it.
- judge2020 5y ago
  It sounds like the issue is that Google didn't specifically exclude the emergency number for {user's country/province} from being sent to third-party calling apps. These apps can register to handle calls for legitimate reasons.
  - sorenjan 5y ago
    But Android has a list of emergency numbers you can dial without unlocking the phone, why wouldn't they use that?
    - jeffbee 5y ago
      Shipping the org chart. One team writes the Lock Screen dialer, some other people wrote the message bus thing that allows apps to intercept calls.
      - hef19898 5y ago
        Why on earth would you want apps to be able to intercept calls on a phone?
        throwaway744678 5y ago
        On Android, you can replace the default phone app. That's by design.
ranma42 5y ago
This might be related: https://blog.enablingtechcorp.com/planning-emergency-calling-for-microsoft-teams https://blog.enablingtechcorp.com/planning-emergency-calling... "Routing emergency calls to the appropriate 911 Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP) is a legal requirement in the United States [...] Teams can determine an Emergency Caller’s current location and automatically pass the call and the current location information to the appropriate PSAP"
nobrains 5y ago
> "I am furious at the thought that I have been unable to dial 911 for who knows how long." Initially I thought the above comment was unreasonable. But when I put myself in the same shoes, I have the EXACT same feeling. It is like the person who was coming at the intersection at blaring speed, but missed me. The fact that he COULD have hit me, and if that happened, I would likely have died, is a very frustrating thought. But when conveying it to a 3rd party, I feel the 3rd party might think "hey, its ok. nothing happened. you are safe. he did not hit you, so why are you upset?"
mrjin 5y ago
Weren't emergency services numbers supposed to be available, not matter whether the phone is locked or not, and does not even require a SIM card? Then how come an user mode app can block calling numbers that were supposed to be available where is there is cellular coverage?
- Animats 5y ago
  Yes. There are lots of specific technical requirements from the FCC on this. First, even if the phone is locked, calls to 911 have to work. If there's no SIM card, calls to 911 have to work. For 911 calls, the phone's transmitter goes to full power and the receive side will attempt to connect even if the signal is too weak. If you're subscribed to one carrier and they're down, the phone has to try other carriers in range. If no talk channel is available, the cell site has to free one up, kicking off a non-emergency call if necessary. If the billing system is down in the cellular system, the call has to go through anyway. For newer technologies, VOIP has to support 911, with location info. "Oh, we decided to divert all calls to Teams first" is just not going to fly.
  - jet_32951 5y ago
    Then this seems to mean that the 'Dialer' function in a lot of Android phones separates functionality at the wrong point, is that right? Having 'Dialer' as selectable should not include the ability to select what ought to be a hardware requirement to be able to dial 911. If this is true the whole pachanga falls firmly in Google's court.
    - eldaisfish 5y ago
      that's one of my biggest reasons for not using android - i appreciate the risk that comes with "options", "choice" and "customisation". I want my phone to work - especially during a time-critical emergency. An app crashing or bugging out is not an acceptable trade-off. That said, i have my gripes with iOS but at least Apple's thought process towards these issues is similar.
- Arnt 5y ago
facorreia 5y ago
One more reason to not install company apps on a personal phone.
- nyuszika7h 5y ago
  Work is not the only reason reason someone may use Microsoft Teams. People in school or university use it too, and they sure as hell won't provide you a "school phone".
- Xylakant 5y ago
  How is this relevant? The bug was in this instance triggered by teams, but it could have been any other calling app. And I know at least a few organizations that use teams to communicate with people engaging in a private capacity - our childcare for example uses it to communicate with parents, schools to teach remote, our kids hockey team,…
- whazor 5y ago
  While I agree it is mainly the fault of Google here with not properly sandboxing, it would not surprise me if mobile management software has the ability to block phone calls to other countries and with that accidentally banning emergency numbers. I get all kinds of big (bit less serious) issues with my phone after installing corporate mobile management software and the incorrect configuration of it.
ls15 5y ago
I only installed the teams app on my phone, because their web app only works in selected invasive browsers on the desktop, but not in Firefox, which I found already infuriating. Why can't we have open standards for communication in 2021, where everyone can just use the software that they trust? I would never use teams if I had a choice, besides looking for another job.
nneonneo 5y ago
Google wants you to blame Microsoft Teams for this, and judging from some other comments that’s nearly working. But, the blame is entirely on Android. It doesn’t matter how badly Teams screwed up - it should not have the ability to mess up a core system function like this. Let’s not forget - someone very nearly could have died thanks to this glitch. Thankfully, a landline was available.
- bserfaty 5y ago
  Maybe someone has died and we will never know. Not many people go on debugging why 911 wasn't working.
  - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
    Especially if they died trying.
tiagod 5y ago
I also know the number for local emergency, but needing to wait for my phone to reboot during a stroke (and my phone takes a looong time to sounds really scary.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
utrack 5y ago
It's very easy - just call 0118 999 881 999 119 725...3!

INTPenis 5y ago

I can't answer that but I run Teams on Android and it's just a terrible app. Its problems have affected my entire phone before. Like for example when it wouldn't stop blinking and each blink reset whatever I was doing so I had to quickly switch out of it between blinks and then force kill it from Settings.

badthingfactory 5y ago
Teams is the absolute worst piece of software I have ever used. Simply logging in only works about 50% of the time. This wouldn't be a big deal if I wasn't randomly forced to the login screen every few days. I experience a different bug every other day. I can't be signed into multiple orgs at once (on desktop) meaning I have to fully sign out/sign in when I want to switch and it takes forever. Notifications are unreliable. I miss Slack so much.

georgemcbay 5y ago

Agreed. As a Pixel/Android user who has never used Microsoft Teams this is still incredibly concerning. A third-party app causing this issue on accident means a third-party app could cause this issue maliciously and any app not part of the base operating system should not be capable of causing an issue interfering with emergency calling. I assume/hope their January 4th fix addresses whatever the issue is at a more fundamental level, but this seems like the sort of thing that should be addressed a lot sooner than a month out.

bb88 5y ago
Also more reasons to not use Microsoft Teams. I think an explanation here of what data is being sent to Microsoft Teams and now MS Teams can prevent phone calls is important here. If my organization uses MS Teams, do my phone calls on my personal device go to my company?
- jmspring 5y ago
  Oh FFS, it’s an issue with app/dialer integration based on Android design and permissions. But, I know it’s popular to bash MS. I’m not a teams fan, but this is taking things a tad far. Edit: dialer has been autocorrected to diaper
  - vladvasiliu 5y ago
    I think the issue is that Teams even tries to do this in the first place. If I want to call someone via Teams, I'll fire up Teams. Or maybe add a button in the address book when I search for someone (I've got this on iOS, don't know if it's a thing on Android). But on the dialler? When I'm there, I expect to be using the phone app to actually call the number I'm dialling. So yes, this does seem to me like legitimate MS bashing. Even if the platform allows for this, they shouldn't be using it. Especially if the app is signed-out or otherwise out of order. Of course "it's for the customer experience" somehow, but come on.
    - birdman3131 5y ago
      Teams is VOIP. Legally they HAVE to allow for and setup 911 calling.* Yes they royally screwed up. But its not like they could have just ignored Ray Baum Act/ Kari's Law. *I think for non static location devices like cellphones or softphones the law does not kick in for a bit. For deskphones or say a voip phone you take home from work it has been in effect for a while now.
      - bb88 5y ago
        But they don't need to inject themselves in the dialer. I think that's the clear takeaway.

bit_logic 5y ago

They need to release more technical details on this to restore confidence. How can a sandboxed user installed app with limited permissions cause dialing 911 to fail? How do they know other apps won't cause the same issue? And they mentioned an Android update, but what about the millions of Android phones that aren't getting regular updates? Does that mean there's potentially millions of phones that can't dial 911? I like Pixel and Android, but am seriously thinking of switching to iphone because I really need a phone I can trust will dial 911 when I need it.

judge2020 5y ago
It sounds like the issue is that Google didn't specifically exclude the emergency number for {user's country/province} from being sent to third-party calling apps. These apps can register to handle calls for legitimate reasons.
- sorenjan 5y ago
  But Android has a list of emergency numbers you can dial without unlocking the phone, why wouldn't they use that?
  - jeffbee 5y ago
    Shipping the org chart. One team writes the Lock Screen dialer, some other people wrote the message bus thing that allows apps to intercept calls.
    - hef19898 5y ago
      Why on earth would you want apps to be able to intercept calls on a phone?
      - throwaway744678 5y ago
        On Android, you can replace the default phone app. That's by design.

ranma42 5y ago

This might be related: https://blog.enablingtechcorp.com/planning-emergency-calling-for-microsoft-teams https://blog.enablingtechcorp.com/planning-emergency-calling... "Routing emergency calls to the appropriate 911 Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP) is a legal requirement in the United States [...] Teams can determine an Emergency Caller’s current location and automatically pass the call and the current location information to the appropriate PSAP"

nobrains 5y ago

> "I am furious at the thought that I have been unable to dial 911 for who knows how long." Initially I thought the above comment was unreasonable. But when I put myself in the same shoes, I have the EXACT same feeling. It is like the person who was coming at the intersection at blaring speed, but missed me. The fact that he COULD have hit me, and if that happened, I would likely have died, is a very frustrating thought. But when conveying it to a 3rd party, I feel the 3rd party might think "hey, its ok. nothing happened. you are safe. he did not hit you, so why are you upset?"

mrjin 5y ago

Weren't emergency services numbers supposed to be available, not matter whether the phone is locked or not, and does not even require a SIM card? Then how come an user mode app can block calling numbers that were supposed to be available where is there is cellular coverage?

Animats 5y ago
Yes. There are lots of specific technical requirements from the FCC on this. First, even if the phone is locked, calls to 911 have to work. If there's no SIM card, calls to 911 have to work. For 911 calls, the phone's transmitter goes to full power and the receive side will attempt to connect even if the signal is too weak. If you're subscribed to one carrier and they're down, the phone has to try other carriers in range. If no talk channel is available, the cell site has to free one up, kicking off a non-emergency call if necessary. If the billing system is down in the cellular system, the call has to go through anyway. For newer technologies, VOIP has to support 911, with location info. "Oh, we decided to divert all calls to Teams first" is just not going to fly.
- jet_32951 5y ago
  Then this seems to mean that the 'Dialer' function in a lot of Android phones separates functionality at the wrong point, is that right? Having 'Dialer' as selectable should not include the ability to select what ought to be a hardware requirement to be able to dial 911. If this is true the whole pachanga falls firmly in Google's court.
  - eldaisfish 5y ago
    that's one of my biggest reasons for not using android - i appreciate the risk that comes with "options", "choice" and "customisation". I want my phone to work - especially during a time-critical emergency. An app crashing or bugging out is not an acceptable trade-off. That said, i have my gripes with iOS but at least Apple's thought process towards these issues is similar.
Arnt 5y ago

facorreia 5y ago

One more reason to not install company apps on a personal phone.

nyuszika7h 5y ago
Work is not the only reason reason someone may use Microsoft Teams. People in school or university use it too, and they sure as hell won't provide you a "school phone".
Xylakant 5y ago
How is this relevant? The bug was in this instance triggered by teams, but it could have been any other calling app. And I know at least a few organizations that use teams to communicate with people engaging in a private capacity - our childcare for example uses it to communicate with parents, schools to teach remote, our kids hockey team,…
whazor 5y ago
While I agree it is mainly the fault of Google here with not properly sandboxing, it would not surprise me if mobile management software has the ability to block phone calls to other countries and with that accidentally banning emergency numbers. I get all kinds of big (bit less serious) issues with my phone after installing corporate mobile management software and the incorrect configuration of it.

ls15 5y ago

I only installed the teams app on my phone, because their web app only works in selected invasive browsers on the desktop, but not in Firefox, which I found already infuriating. Why can't we have open standards for communication in 2021, where everyone can just use the software that they trust? I would never use teams if I had a choice, besides looking for another job.

nneonneo 5y ago

Google wants you to blame Microsoft Teams for this, and judging from some other comments that’s nearly working. But, the blame is entirely on Android. It doesn’t matter how badly Teams screwed up - it should not have the ability to mess up a core system function like this. Let’s not forget - someone very nearly could have died thanks to this glitch. Thankfully, a landline was available.

bserfaty 5y ago
Maybe someone has died and we will never know. Not many people go on debugging why 911 wasn't working.
- hypertele-Xii 5y ago
  Especially if they died trying.

tiagod 5y ago

I also know the number for local emergency, but needing to wait for my phone to reboot during a stroke (and my phone takes a looong time to sounds really scary.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

utrack 5y ago

It's very easy - just call 0118 999 881 999 119 725...3!