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This is the scientific meat of the press release where it claims a 25 times neutralizing antibody titers against the Omicron strain with a third dose of Pfizer-

This is the scientific meat of the press release where it claims a 25 times neutralizing antibody titers against the Omicron strain with a third dose of Pfizer-BionTech: The sera were collected from subjects 3 weeks after receiving the second dose or one month after receiving the third dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine. Each serum was tested simultaneously for its neutralizing antibody titer against the wild-type SARS-Cov-2 spike protein, and the Omicron spike variant. The third dose significantly increased the neutralizing antibody titers against the Omicron strain spike by 25-fold. Neutralization against the Omicron variant after three doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was comparable to the neutralization against the wild-type strain observed in sera from individuals who received two doses of the companies’ COVID-19 vaccine: The geometric mean titer (GMT) of neutralizing antibody against the Omicron variant measured in the samples was 154 (after three doses), compared to 398 against the Delta variant (after three doses) and 155 against the ancestral strain (after two doses). Data on the persistence of neutralizing titers over time after a booster dose of BNT162b2 against the Omicron variant will be collected. --- At the bottom of the press release it mentions that Pfizer is the marketing distribution partner for BionTech in many countries. Does anyone have a list where BionTech distributes directly? "BioNTech is the Marketing Authorization Holder in the United States, the European Union, the United Kingdom, Canada and other countries and the holder of emergency use authorizations or equivalents in the United States (jointly with Pfizer) and other countries."

Arnt 5y ago
IIRC Biontech distributes directly in some part of Europe that includes Turkey but I wouldn't bet on Kazakhstan and its neighbours. (Also, Pfizer does more than distribute, it also produces the stuff somewhere in the US, and contract manufacturers including Rentschler Biopharma produce for both of them.)
- ls15 5y ago
  Mongolia got doses from Covax that are labeled with Pfizer. On the certificate it is labeled with both names.
logicchains 5y ago
It's interesting, this differs from recent results suggesting that boosting with vaccines derived from the original Wuhan variant is relatively less effective against newer variants like delta: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.12.21261952v2.full https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.12.21261952v....
- nostrebored 5y ago
  Well the problem suggested by other research is that when vaccinated people are infected with a functionally different strain they don’t appear to create new antibodies. This is consistent with other research showing that people who are vaccinated then infected are more likely to get reinfected than those who were simply infected and recovered. The alternative outlook here is that vaccinated people are more likely to be at risk populations with immune systems that don’t function as well (immune compromised/elderly)
  - listless 5y ago
    This has always been my fear. I'm vaccinated (Moderna) and got COVID in September. I recovered quickly - about 3 days. But I'm worried that my body did not get to have a proper immune response and that as such, I'll have to continue get vaccinated forever whereas if I had just gotten COVID without the vaccine maybe I would be set. But I haven't found _much_ data to back up this concern.
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      That's the usual way it goes, as long as relatively high mortality virus is circulating in most of the world population. Both infection- and vaccination-produced immunity decays over time. So everyone's choice is between keeping up their vaccination, or getting COVID repeatedly. Which boils down to a question of whether you think being vaccinated or getting COVID is less risky. Yes, there's some +/- on the decay rate, but in a relative weighting between risk (COVID without immune system primed) and needing more frequent boosters, why pick the COVID option and roll the dice on death or permanent organ damage? Personal choice, I stay vaccinated, at least until (fingers crossed) the circulating strains of COVID evolve to be less dangerous.
unclebucknasty 5y ago
The real question is how this translates to actual protection against serious disease. These increased responses sound impressive but, beyond some threshold, additional response offers only negligibly better protection. Do we know what those thresholds are?
- funcDropShadow 5y ago
  No, at least to Christian Drosten [1], he explained multiple times in his podcast, that it is quite hard to compare antibody titers from different laboratories and therefore it is hard to define general safe thresholds. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Drosten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Drosten
Slartie 5y ago
BioNTech distributes directly in Germany for sure. Also as far as I know in all European Union countries, because they basically bulk-ordered their vaccine supply together (though the deliveries are individually split up to each country). But in the end it shouldn't matter anyway from a financial perspective, since BioNTech and Pfizer have a 50:50 split agreement on all costs and revenues related to the vaccine. That agreement should nullify any possible influence of distribution region assignments on the financial results.
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  Is it possible to officially buy a BioNTech dose in Germany ?
  - mooncitizen 5y ago
    Why would you want to buy a vaccine dose straight from pharmacy? It doesn't make too much sense tbh.
  - Kliment 5y ago
    Yes and no. You can order Comirnaty in Germany if you're a doctor's practice, and the deliveries will come from the central distribution facilities in each German state. Those facilities are receiving shipments from the Marburg production facility that BioNTech owns and operates. Similarly, if you were to do the same as a Belgian physician, you would receive shipments that originate in Pfizer's production facility in Belgium. It's exactly the same product though. I don't know if there's a difference in the labeling beyond specifying production site. The production lot labels you get for each dose to be added to patient vaccination records look exactly the same (other than the lot serial numbers of course).
    - Slartie 5y ago
      However doctors cannot currently order Comirnaty "directly" from anywhere except from the government-controlled distribution system, which operates along the same basic distribution lines that are also used for other vaccines and medicine products, but is governed by special rules (for example the government can limit the number of doses a single doctor can order if demand outstrips supply). And when it comes to ordering from the manufacturer, whether it's Pfizer or BioNTech, AFAIK nobody except nation states can do that. They just don't accept anyone else as customers - with very rare, but notable exceptions (there was this occurrence where the company TSMC ordered some millions of doses of Comirnaty as a proxy for the Taiwan government because some weird Chinese intervention, of which I didn't fully understand the exact mechanism how it worked, prevented Taiwan from ordering directly).
mrtksn 5y ago
> Does anyone have a list where BionTech distributes directly? It's Germany and Turkey. In a press release earlier this year[0], BioNTech described their relationship with Pfizer and they listed the countries it covers. Also, for China they have another company instead of Pfizer. Why Germany and Turkey, you may ask? Well, the inventors and founders of the company are Turkish immigrants to Germany. So they are able to give the vaccine on special terms to the country they came from and the country that made them. To be honest, Turkey is extremely lucky that they feel like helping out the motherland. Thanks to them, Turkey has abundance of the vaccine and probably at a good price. [0] https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-details/pfizer-and-biontech-celebrate-historic-first-authorization-us https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-det...
- sho_hn 5y ago
  They also have a licensee (and early R&D investor) in China, Fosun Pharma. I don't know if Fosun is actively manufacturing and distributing, but I think they have the exclusive rights for the Chinese mainland, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macau.
  - throwaway2037 5y ago
    Doses of BioNTech vaccine distributed by gov'ts in Hongkong and Macao were manufactored by Fosun Pharma. As vaccination rate has dropped dramatically since the initial rush, I don't know if Fosun Pharma is still manufacturing the BioNTech vaccine. Weirdly, I still don't think any foreign made vaccines are approved in mainland China. Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fosun_Pharma#COVID-19 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fosun_Pharma#COVID-19 I cannot find any references via Google that prove Fosun Pharma has exclusive rights for Taiwan. If anyone has any specifics, please reply. Honestly, I doubt it, as Fosun in a mainland Chinese corporation and China was actively blocking Taiwan out of international COVID efforts efforts vis-a-vis WHO (World Health Org).
    - sho_hn 5y ago
      > "Fosun Pharma has been licensed by BioNTech to exclusively develop and commercialize COVID-19 vaccines based on its mRNA technology platform in Chinese Mainland, Hong Kong SAR, Macau SAR and Taiwan region." https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-details/10-million-doses-mrna-based-covid-19-vaccine-be-supplied-taiwan https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-det... (2020)
q1w2 5y ago
This is the meat in the meat... > Neutralization against the Omicron variant after three doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was comparable to the neutralization against the wild-type strain observed in sera from individuals who received two doses This means that the vaccine is still effective - but very clearly LESS effective than it was against earlier variants. We need UPDATED booster shots each year. The new normal will be boosters every year as we have with the flu.
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  Is there any evidence for covid reinfection?
  - robbedpeter 5y ago
    Returning to this one after doing more research, there seems to be a 90%+ protection after reinfection, from all strains so far, and similar protection against hospitalization. Vaccination effects on previously infected individuals is touted as giving better protection, but the data is shaky at best. We'll need years more data.
- sharken 5y ago
  Those who wants booster shots can take them, while those who don't want to are free to do just that. Same as with the flu, which of course means that we do away with Corona passport and the other limits we set up. The end goal is to treat Corona exactly the same way we treat the flu, ie. your personal choice will not lead to restrictions.

Arnt 5y ago

IIRC Biontech distributes directly in some part of Europe that includes Turkey but I wouldn't bet on Kazakhstan and its neighbours. (Also, Pfizer does more than distribute, it also produces the stuff somewhere in the US, and contract manufacturers including Rentschler Biopharma produce for both of them.)

ls15 5y ago
Mongolia got doses from Covax that are labeled with Pfizer. On the certificate it is labeled with both names.

logicchains 5y ago

It's interesting, this differs from recent results suggesting that boosting with vaccines derived from the original Wuhan variant is relatively less effective against newer variants like delta: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.12.21261952v2.full https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.12.21261952v....

nostrebored 5y ago
Well the problem suggested by other research is that when vaccinated people are infected with a functionally different strain they don’t appear to create new antibodies. This is consistent with other research showing that people who are vaccinated then infected are more likely to get reinfected than those who were simply infected and recovered. The alternative outlook here is that vaccinated people are more likely to be at risk populations with immune systems that don’t function as well (immune compromised/elderly)
- listless 5y ago
  This has always been my fear. I'm vaccinated (Moderna) and got COVID in September. I recovered quickly - about 3 days. But I'm worried that my body did not get to have a proper immune response and that as such, I'll have to continue get vaccinated forever whereas if I had just gotten COVID without the vaccine maybe I would be set. But I haven't found _much_ data to back up this concern.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    That's the usual way it goes, as long as relatively high mortality virus is circulating in most of the world population. Both infection- and vaccination-produced immunity decays over time. So everyone's choice is between keeping up their vaccination, or getting COVID repeatedly. Which boils down to a question of whether you think being vaccinated or getting COVID is less risky. Yes, there's some +/- on the decay rate, but in a relative weighting between risk (COVID without immune system primed) and needing more frequent boosters, why pick the COVID option and roll the dice on death or permanent organ damage? Personal choice, I stay vaccinated, at least until (fingers crossed) the circulating strains of COVID evolve to be less dangerous.

unclebucknasty 5y ago

The real question is how this translates to actual protection against serious disease. These increased responses sound impressive but, beyond some threshold, additional response offers only negligibly better protection. Do we know what those thresholds are?

funcDropShadow 5y ago
No, at least to Christian Drosten [1], he explained multiple times in his podcast, that it is quite hard to compare antibody titers from different laboratories and therefore it is hard to define general safe thresholds. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Drosten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Drosten

Slartie 5y ago

BioNTech distributes directly in Germany for sure. Also as far as I know in all European Union countries, because they basically bulk-ordered their vaccine supply together (though the deliveries are individually split up to each country). But in the end it shouldn't matter anyway from a financial perspective, since BioNTech and Pfizer have a 50:50 split agreement on all costs and revenues related to the vaccine. That agreement should nullify any possible influence of distribution region assignments on the financial results.

johnchristopher 5y ago
Is it possible to officially buy a BioNTech dose in Germany ?
- mooncitizen 5y ago
  Why would you want to buy a vaccine dose straight from pharmacy? It doesn't make too much sense tbh.
- Kliment 5y ago
  Yes and no. You can order Comirnaty in Germany if you're a doctor's practice, and the deliveries will come from the central distribution facilities in each German state. Those facilities are receiving shipments from the Marburg production facility that BioNTech owns and operates. Similarly, if you were to do the same as a Belgian physician, you would receive shipments that originate in Pfizer's production facility in Belgium. It's exactly the same product though. I don't know if there's a difference in the labeling beyond specifying production site. The production lot labels you get for each dose to be added to patient vaccination records look exactly the same (other than the lot serial numbers of course).
  - Slartie 5y ago
    However doctors cannot currently order Comirnaty "directly" from anywhere except from the government-controlled distribution system, which operates along the same basic distribution lines that are also used for other vaccines and medicine products, but is governed by special rules (for example the government can limit the number of doses a single doctor can order if demand outstrips supply). And when it comes to ordering from the manufacturer, whether it's Pfizer or BioNTech, AFAIK nobody except nation states can do that. They just don't accept anyone else as customers - with very rare, but notable exceptions (there was this occurrence where the company TSMC ordered some millions of doses of Comirnaty as a proxy for the Taiwan government because some weird Chinese intervention, of which I didn't fully understand the exact mechanism how it worked, prevented Taiwan from ordering directly).

mrtksn 5y ago

> Does anyone have a list where BionTech distributes directly? It's Germany and Turkey. In a press release earlier this year[0], BioNTech described their relationship with Pfizer and they listed the countries it covers. Also, for China they have another company instead of Pfizer. Why Germany and Turkey, you may ask? Well, the inventors and founders of the company are Turkish immigrants to Germany. So they are able to give the vaccine on special terms to the country they came from and the country that made them. To be honest, Turkey is extremely lucky that they feel like helping out the motherland. Thanks to them, Turkey has abundance of the vaccine and probably at a good price. [0] https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-details/pfizer-and-biontech-celebrate-historic-first-authorization-us https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-det...

sho_hn 5y ago
They also have a licensee (and early R&D investor) in China, Fosun Pharma. I don't know if Fosun is actively manufacturing and distributing, but I think they have the exclusive rights for the Chinese mainland, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macau.
- throwaway2037 5y ago
  Doses of BioNTech vaccine distributed by gov'ts in Hongkong and Macao were manufactored by Fosun Pharma. As vaccination rate has dropped dramatically since the initial rush, I don't know if Fosun Pharma is still manufacturing the BioNTech vaccine. Weirdly, I still don't think any foreign made vaccines are approved in mainland China. Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fosun_Pharma#COVID-19 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fosun_Pharma#COVID-19 I cannot find any references via Google that prove Fosun Pharma has exclusive rights for Taiwan. If anyone has any specifics, please reply. Honestly, I doubt it, as Fosun in a mainland Chinese corporation and China was actively blocking Taiwan out of international COVID efforts efforts vis-a-vis WHO (World Health Org).
  - sho_hn 5y ago
    > "Fosun Pharma has been licensed by BioNTech to exclusively develop and commercialize COVID-19 vaccines based on its mRNA technology platform in Chinese Mainland, Hong Kong SAR, Macau SAR and Taiwan region." https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-details/10-million-doses-mrna-based-covid-19-vaccine-be-supplied-taiwan https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-det... (2020)

q1w2 5y ago

This is the meat in the meat... > Neutralization against the Omicron variant after three doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was comparable to the neutralization against the wild-type strain observed in sera from individuals who received two doses This means that the vaccine is still effective - but very clearly LESS effective than it was against earlier variants. We need UPDATED booster shots each year. The new normal will be boosters every year as we have with the flu.

robbedpeter 5y ago
Is there any evidence for covid reinfection?
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  Returning to this one after doing more research, there seems to be a 90%+ protection after reinfection, from all strains so far, and similar protection against hospitalization. Vaccination effects on previously infected individuals is touted as giving better protection, but the data is shaky at best. We'll need years more data.
sharken 5y ago
Those who wants booster shots can take them, while those who don't want to are free to do just that. Same as with the flu, which of course means that we do away with Corona passport and the other limits we set up. The end goal is to treat Corona exactly the same way we treat the flu, ie. your personal choice will not lead to restrictions.