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> We wish to forge a new path forward, one [...] of user-owned and operated pages [...]. Find us on Discord. SURELY there is something better out there, if you

> We wish to forge a new path forward, one [...] of user-owned and operated pages [...]. Find us on Discord. SURELY there is something better out there, if your goal is to stop propping up proprietary monoliths?

bb88 5y ago
You're not wrong but what else is there? In 1994/5 IRC was awesome. In 2021, IRC sorta kinda sucks. They have to start somewhere...
- Aeolun 5y ago
  Matrix?
  - charcircuit 5y ago
    Matrix is for group chats where Discord is for communities. Discord allows you to easily spin up the equivalent of an IRC / Matrix server with a few clicks. Discord is optimized towards the idea of decentralized ownership where each community has their own server as opposed to just a chat room which is often the case with IRC or Matrix.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      > Discord is optimized towards the idea of decentralized ownership Sorry, I just did a spit-take. Did you mean distributed? Discord is decidedly centralized.
      - charcircuit 5y ago
        Decentralizing the hosting of the servers leads to a poor UX. In the past setting up your own IRC server was really confusing for the average user. With discord the process is much easier since they abstract away the complexity by hosting it for you. It's decentralized because there is no central discord server. A bunch of different people run their own discord server and you are free to choose whoever server you want provided you have an invite.
        have_faith 5y ago
        I think this is difficult because discord have changed the meaning of the word server for it’s usage. From a technical perspective discord is definitely centralised. I think you mean the user experience is more democratised maybe? Perhaps that also isn’t the correct word.
        charcircuit 5y ago
        >discord have changed the meaning of the word server for it’s usage They haven't though. It's the same meaning as in an IRC server or a Mumble server. It's just managed by Discord. A similar thing has happened to the physical server market with cloud hosting. You have a company manage all the complications with actually deploying a server for you and taken care of for you by them automatically. This offers a great UX for people who just want to have a server deployed. If a piece of decentralized software is hosted on 3 AWS VPS is it decentralized even though Amazon owns the actual servers it's running on and dictates rules on what you can host?
        smoldesu 5y ago
        > If a piece of decentralized software is hosted on 3 AWS VPS is it decentralized Ostensibly, yes. If Amazon decides to stop hosting my software, I can move it to a competing distributor or host it myself. That is not an option with Discord.
  - bb88 5y ago
    I've not used matrix. Can you create a url to your matrix group for others to easily join, and without spinning anything up on AWS?
    - charcircuit 5y ago
      Yes, it's possible, but only for a single room.
      - bb88 5y ago
        That would be a problem for more than say more than 20 or 30 users.
      - CyberShadow 5y ago
        I believe Matrix spaces are very much like Discord "servers".
    - jstanley 5y ago
      So what are you suggesting? "We want the web to be user-owned and operated, but we don't want to own or operate anything" ?
      - bb88 5y ago
        Not in the slightest. Who hurt you?
- rakoo 5y ago
  Zulip ?
- extra88 5y ago
  Discourse? https://www.discourse.org https://www.discourse.org
  - still_grokking 5y ago
    And the difference to Discord is what?
    - extra88 5y ago
      Host it yourself.
      - still_grokking 5y ago
        Sorry, I've got confused and mistaken it for Disqus. Discourse is of course a good option.
- kymaz 5y ago
  Yeah, IRC shows it's age, but it's easy to get connected and talking, no phone number verification or required account creation, or other byzantine verification process.
marginalia_nu 5y ago
I've made some sketches for a distributed indieweb discussion system a bit like your old fashioned forum, but got too much on my plate right now to implement it in any way that gives it justice. I do think the idea has merit though. I have some thoughts on a way to do this that is resistant to both spam and censorship.
- striking 5y ago
  You could start with a self-hosted alternative, though, no?
charcircuit 5y ago
It seems their goal is to create more creative sites than to get rid of existing sites. Discord has a lot to offer and it allows users to customize it too.

bb88 5y ago

You're not wrong but what else is there? In 1994/5 IRC was awesome. In 2021, IRC sorta kinda sucks. They have to start somewhere...

Aeolun 5y ago
Matrix?
- charcircuit 5y ago
  Matrix is for group chats where Discord is for communities. Discord allows you to easily spin up the equivalent of an IRC / Matrix server with a few clicks. Discord is optimized towards the idea of decentralized ownership where each community has their own server as opposed to just a chat room which is often the case with IRC or Matrix.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    > Discord is optimized towards the idea of decentralized ownership Sorry, I just did a spit-take. Did you mean distributed? Discord is decidedly centralized.
    - charcircuit 5y ago
      Decentralizing the hosting of the servers leads to a poor UX. In the past setting up your own IRC server was really confusing for the average user. With discord the process is much easier since they abstract away the complexity by hosting it for you. It's decentralized because there is no central discord server. A bunch of different people run their own discord server and you are free to choose whoever server you want provided you have an invite.
      - have_faith 5y ago
        I think this is difficult because discord have changed the meaning of the word server for it’s usage. From a technical perspective discord is definitely centralised. I think you mean the user experience is more democratised maybe? Perhaps that also isn’t the correct word.
        charcircuit 5y ago
        >discord have changed the meaning of the word server for it’s usage They haven't though. It's the same meaning as in an IRC server or a Mumble server. It's just managed by Discord. A similar thing has happened to the physical server market with cloud hosting. You have a company manage all the complications with actually deploying a server for you and taken care of for you by them automatically. This offers a great UX for people who just want to have a server deployed. If a piece of decentralized software is hosted on 3 AWS VPS is it decentralized even though Amazon owns the actual servers it's running on and dictates rules on what you can host?
        smoldesu 5y ago
        > If a piece of decentralized software is hosted on 3 AWS VPS is it decentralized Ostensibly, yes. If Amazon decides to stop hosting my software, I can move it to a competing distributor or host it myself. That is not an option with Discord.
- bb88 5y ago
  I've not used matrix. Can you create a url to your matrix group for others to easily join, and without spinning anything up on AWS?
  - charcircuit 5y ago
    Yes, it's possible, but only for a single room.
    - bb88 5y ago
      That would be a problem for more than say more than 20 or 30 users.
    - CyberShadow 5y ago
      I believe Matrix spaces are very much like Discord "servers".
  - jstanley 5y ago
    So what are you suggesting? "We want the web to be user-owned and operated, but we don't want to own or operate anything" ?
    - bb88 5y ago
      Not in the slightest. Who hurt you?
rakoo 5y ago
Zulip ?
extra88 5y ago
Discourse? https://www.discourse.org https://www.discourse.org
- still_grokking 5y ago
  And the difference to Discord is what?
  - extra88 5y ago
    Host it yourself.
    - still_grokking 5y ago
      Sorry, I've got confused and mistaken it for Disqus. Discourse is of course a good option.
kymaz 5y ago
Yeah, IRC shows it's age, but it's easy to get connected and talking, no phone number verification or required account creation, or other byzantine verification process.

marginalia_nu 5y ago

I've made some sketches for a distributed indieweb discussion system a bit like your old fashioned forum, but got too much on my plate right now to implement it in any way that gives it justice. I do think the idea has merit though. I have some thoughts on a way to do this that is resistant to both spam and censorship.

striking 5y ago
You could start with a self-hosted alternative, though, no?

charcircuit 5y ago

It seems their goal is to create more creative sites than to get rid of existing sites. Discord has a lot to offer and it allows users to customize it too.