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I bought those AR cycling glasses that were on HN last month
- rdxm 5y agoWhy in the world would you want these? Just go buy an SRM head unit and call it done.
- rasz 5y ago> I can tell you this are not a scam. links to a picture with photoshopped display covering 30% of glass area in the middle https://painandcycling.com/post-assets/engo-glasses/engo_insta_2.webp https://painandcycling.com/post-assets/engo-glasses/engo_ins.... Even product box suggests 30% of field of view taken by the display. >What you see when you put them on is a small projection in the upper left. mhm, so just like Google Glass was not a scam! Same "small postage stamp display in the corner" with huge misleading media campaign selling you on lies.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- GhettoComputers 5y agoOP I see you have LCD to display info, what did you think of the pebble as a bike computer, and have you tried one?
- TrueGeek 5y agoI never liked the idea of using a watch as a bike computer. If all you want is to record the data for later use it's fine, but then just use whatever you already own - your phone, Apple Watch, etc. If you need to actually see the data while moving the wrist isn't a safe place to be directing your eyesight.
- GhettoComputers 5y agoIt’s visible in the sun. Depending on the speed, or info I’d agree it’s bad for many situations.
- mahdi7d1 5y agoArticle is good but why the website is so bad designed? Grey text (123,129,140) on White back is terrible (don't have enough contrast) and the lines are too long. Also images are so big that don't fit to my screen. If it's hard to design (for me it is) just follow proven patterns. Like Medium's style with short lines.
- TrueGeek 5y agoGood point on the text, thank you - I've changed it. If you've got time could you send / post a screenshot of the images not fitting? My contact details are on my main site in my HN profile. The images are huge, I'll admit. Normally when I post on that site it's ride reports that are only read by my mother so it's heavily photo based. When writing this review I did think I should make a component for smaller images but, honestly, I wasn't expecting this many people to read it. As for it being hard to design... yeah. This is just a free Jekyll template that I got and then pushed to GitHub Pages. At work I have the benefit of the UX department telling me what to change, lol
- lordnacho 5y agoI'm looking for a HUD solution for monitoring. I spend all day with some numbers and status displays on a screen, and I'd like to just be able to wander around and not have to look at my phone all the time. What are my hardware options? I'm able to write to any SDK they give, but preferably I'd just ping a website as http or websocket and show the stuff on glasses.
- jstanley 5y agoI also think I'd be interested in generic AR glasses to connect my own application to, but I'm curious why it would be preferable to have the manufacturer's website sitting in the middle of your pipeline? Personally I would find it preferable if I was talking directly to the glasses and did not have to use any cloud service.
- lordnacho 5y agoI meant ping my own website and just have it show what I'm serving. Like a simple endpoint that has some status text, doesn't have to be fancy. Just let me scrape 192.168.1.24:8080 every second and draw the text in my peripheral vision.
- adriancr 5y agowhy not just set alarms when user intervention is needed and forget about it?
- lordnacho 5y agoThere's just something about trading where you think you need to have it to hand all the time. Plus there are issues that you don't know how to code the alarm for, ie you want to know that something is up but it's not specific why you think you need to do something.
- cillian64 5y agoPerhaps something smartwatch-based would make sense for this. Almost certainly cheaper and easier than AR and still more immediate than pulling out a phone.
- stewbrew 5y agoWhat kind of display did they use for that? Did somebody do a teardown of this thing?
- agumonkey 5y agoMore like a HUD than AR. Also a HUD to display HUD's battery life, watts and distance seems not super important. Maybe elevation, coming road geometry, weather, traffic..
- GekkePrutser 5y agoI'm surprised it doesn't work with the radar thing, that would be the #1 benefit for me.
- TrueGeek 5y agoIf it was waterproof and showed data from my Varia I would not have returned them. I don't ride on the roads without radar anymore.
- ZeroGravitas 5y agoI remember when Google Glass was hitting the first peak of the hype cycle, and thinking this would be a great use for them when they got a little better and cheaper. Will think about buying the next generation.
- bni 5y agoIt sucks that AR products always inflate expectation in their videos and marketing images and over promise and under deliver. It's very easy to make an honest video about what user will actually see, but these companies are not interested in that. Many people believe that the functionality shown in these videos actually exist.
- lormayna 5y agoI am a cyclist (7/8k km/year) and I think that this product will become popular only if the price will be low. It's just a fancy tool, but not it does not give you real advantage in terms of better training or improved cycling performances. Maybe it would be better to have an integration to something similar with Veloviewer than display HRM and power information.
- tyjaksn 5y agoA use case for glasses like these with the heads up display would be while riding a TT bike in the aero position. The bars are not conducive to mounting a bike computer and it is a regular occurrence for it to fall off during a triathlon. With these glasses though you could just put the computer in your shirt pocket or wherever and not have to look down.
- axegon_ 5y agoI was never sold on VR. AR on the other hand is something I see huge potential in and I'd happily use on daily basis. That said, the only appealing option I've seen so far were the now defunct Intel, then Focal, then ultimately killed by Google, glasses. Those were something I'd have loved to have and develop on top of. The Engo ones came close but somehow they aren't the type of glasses you could casually wear. I have spent stupid amounts of time over the past 6 months trying to figure out a way to prototype something similar to what Intel was originally planning to do and I'd happily develop and open source something like it. All you need is a high resolution resin 3D printer to make the frame for the glasses and house the components. Small oled screens are pricey and the best option I could find[1] came at around 120$ a pop but that isn't the issue. For the most part an esp32+battery+lcd screen+resin+some other small components would set you back around 200-250€ which is fairly reasonable(most of which I already have). With deep sleep, the battery would last for weeks the way I'd use it. The biggest problem so far are the lenses. In essence you'd need to get your hands on custom prism lens with very accurate focal distance which in my case has proven to be practically impossible to come by. I haven't been able to find anyone that can/would produce small volumes/single units, at least within reasonable distance from where I live, not to mention how expensive that would get. I've been planning to contact a local optomechanical school and see if they can offer a hand but I'm extremely skeptical at this point. [1] https://lcdscreenmfg.com/product/0-39inch-micro-oled-display-10801920-full-hd-1080p-ar-vr-amoled-screen-module/ https://lcdscreenmfg.com/product/0-39inch-micro-oled-display...
- giuliomagnifico 5y agoVery interesting! I'm a cyclist too, but I haven't read about the battery, how long it last? And the lenses have good quality/are fast to switch from clear to dark? (by the way the price tagof about 400€ is expensive to what looks like a bit more than "a toy")
- KennyBlanken 5y ago400E/$450 is enough to buy a really nice head unit, or a power meter, or clothing for more weather conditions, etc. Just really doesn't seem that useful, and reminds me of all the "help cyclists navigate with LED displays" junk. I swear, it's like every industrial designer's right of passage to design some crap accessory to "help" cyclists!
- TrueGeek 5y agoThe battery is claimed to be 10 hours, but I didn't test it to that limit. The lenses were really good quality - at least as good as my Tifosi's. Very comfy and stayed in place, which is crucial for AR. They don't actually switch the lenses themselves from clear to dark, it's just the brightness of the text that increases, which is instant. But if you wanted to ride at night, you wouldn't be able to wear them. I agree they're expensive, especially since they aren't self contained like a typical bike head unit is. I keep comparing them to the Form swimming goggles - which are also AR. I feel those are totally worth it. But the Engo's are just a bit too expensive for what you get.
- eightysixfour 5y agoInteresting, their site claims they're photochromic (like "transitions") lenses, they should adjust to the brightness around them. Have you tried them in a darker environment?
- TrueGeek 5y agoOh, wow. If it does it’s SUPER subtle. I started a ride in full sunlight and then went in full tree cover forest on gravel. I never noticed the lenses change, only the brightness of the LED. It was visible the whole time though, which was impassible. Like, I TRIED to shake these things off my head going over tree roots, lol
- Jdvaugha 5y agoThese look awesome! I am just getting into cycling but have yet to invest in a bike computer. Currently use the Apple Watch to track everything. Do you know If you can speed/distance/heart rate from the Apple Watch? If so, it would be an instant purchase.
- davidw 5y agoThe Wahoo Elemnt is a very nice bike computer. Has all the functionality you need, including nice maps, plus a long battery life.
- alphakilo 5y agoI'd take the Hammerhead Karoo 2 over the Elemnt or Bolt :) More consistent updates, built on android (sideloading for apps!), and upward trajectory
- TrueGeek 5y agoI’m partial to the Wahoo since they’re in Atlanta and I’ve got to root for the home team. My biggest gripe with the Karoo is that since it’s running a full Android OS the UI should be gorgeous and it’s just... not. They didn’t even modify the title bar. It just shows the time and battery like any old Android phone. I’d love to see them hire a brilliant UX team and just really polish it.
- wiredfool 5y agoThe watch can do it, but you’ll get better gps on the phone. I’m using Cyclemeter, generally pretty happy with it. It will work with on the watch, or on the phone using the watch for HRM. It’s not really useful for checking while riding though, it’s more along the lines of a data logger. Might be a bit different with a mount for the phone, but I avoid having visible elevtronics while riding.
- ladberg 5y agoI believe if the phone is in range the watch will use the phone's GPS. I record all my rides on my watch but my phone is always on my handlebars or in a backpack and I'm pretty sure it uses it.
- dsign 5y agoI guess this is why there isn't hard science fiction anymore: nobody knows anymore if a toy is one thousands years in the future or it was invented yesterday :-( .
- junon 5y agoThat's exciting to me, maybe I'm looking at it wrong though.
- ip26 5y agoI read my son a fantasy book featuring lots of magic. I was a little surprised at how he didn't bat an eye at any of the magic. Halfway through I realized the fantastical crystal ball the characters were using is not fantastical to my son at all- he makes video calls on a tablet every day.
- flyinghamster 5y agoIt also brings to mind the palantír in The Lord of the Rings and Gandalf's advice that it's perilous to use devices of a deeper art than you know. Tolkien could have just as easily be writing about today's internet and its disinformation epidemic.
- bpiche 5y agoWhat did they say, cyberpunk never died, it just stopped being fiction?
- cyberpunk 5y agoCan confirm…
- LeoPanthera 5y agoThis makes me very optimistic for the Apple Glasses. If this technology is already available "off the shelf", I imagine Apple could make something amazing, especially if they combine it with the scene-detecting AR that the iPhone already has.
- LadyCailin 5y agoApple apparently got a patent for direct retinal lighting, which is probably a better experience overall, and seems more flexible. So it might be a totally different experience.
- thebigman433 5y agoProjecting the image to the retina directly actually isnt really a better experience. It means you get an extremely small eyebox, and the glasses would require a custom fit for every single user. You can look at Intel Vaunt/North Focals for what this experience is like. If you even move your eyes too far to the side, the image will disappear.
- dev_tty01 5y agoAs built so far, it is a small eyebox. Don't judge the future on one unreleased product. With more emitters plus computation and sensing, you could compensate for eye movement. Seems a bit short-sighted to make a blanket dismissal of an approach that has not been fully developed.
- flyinghamster 5y agoOne thing I didn't notice: are they usable over prescription eyeglasses? If not, they'd be a non-starter for me.
- dev_tty01 5y agoQuite a few of the better cycling glasses are available with prescription lenses. I imaging Engo will eventually offer that if they can build enough of a user base.
- TrueGeek 5y agoI had not considered that. I don’t imagine you’d be able to wear glasses while wearing them, no. But unless you need glasses to ride a bike you won’t need them. Even if you are near sighted you can see the AR display.
- gibolt 5y agoI'd imagine HN readers to be more likely to wear distance glasses than the average population. That requirement knocks a ton of AR/VR options off the table for me :(
- teeray 5y agoAre there no VR sets that can be fitted with corrective lenses?
- Ancapistani 5y agoI’m mildly farsighted and have an astigmatism in one eye. I use a Quest 2 with 3D printed adapters and lenses sourced from a $15 pair of Zenni Optical frames I ordered for the purpose.
- GekkePrutser 5y agoHow do they work out for you? I'm nearsighted with light astigmatism and I got some 3D lens adapters from VR Optician. But I have weird purple colour fringing around the Quest 2's bright blue buttons. It's like the 3 colours are separating there. Doesn't happen when I wear my glasses. I thought it might be because these lenses are attached to the Quest and not my head.
- mrfusion 5y agoSo how do these work exactly?
- TrueGeek 5y agoI tried very hard to get photos of the projector and LED display and simply could not. It’s all so tiny that it fits in the nose piece of the glasses. But, basically there is an LED screen that brightly “projects” the display onto a mirror. This is, in turn, reflected onto the back of the glass of the glass. You look through it. In practice, the display you see ends up appearing about 10 feet in front of you as free floating text. Logically, you know the text is actually less then an inch from your eyeball but that doesn’t change how it looks to you visually. From the front, people looking at you can not tell you aren’t wearing normal glasses. There isn’t any glow or reflection. The effect is even better with the swimming goggles. It looks like the bubbles (from exhaling) is in between you and the AR text.
- exabrial 5y ago> they aren't waterproof I sweat an unbelievable amount. This is sorta incredible. But I'm absolutely intrigued despite this. Would definitely need Garmin integration!
- smilespray 5y agoJust sweat less. Duh. /s
- exabrial 5y agoIt's sorta my superpower. My record is 4L of water in an hour last June when it was 95 in Bentonville @ ~88% humidity. Lot of my riding buddies had to head into the A/C, I just get popping Nuun tabs and emptying my water bladder in my backpack!
- cwhittle 5y agoVery cool. I can't wait for a more generic data device pairings to these interfaces. I would love them for paragliding, where we have a variometer to track metrics that impact decision making (ascent/descent rate, air/ground speed, altitude, etc) and weight/deck space are a big factor.
- joatmon-snoo 5y agoRecent H1 here- how responsive are paraglider controls? I feel like for hanggliding I want to see those numbers while I'm airborne, but have no idea if they'd be useful because of how sluggish the response can be.
- gumby 5y ago> How do you take a photo of Augmented Reality? You shoot through the glasses? At CastAR we shot all our demo through real hardware and I believe Tilt5 is too.
- ianbicking 5y agoAre there examples up somewhere? Having seen pictures and then experiencing AR myself (just HoloLens) I feel like honest photoshopping is probably the best we can do. But then that doesn't take into account the actual two-eye experience (maybe even more important in a monocular display), and the effect of movement. I was doing a little user study recently where I was using HoloLens and the researcher was watching the streaming view. I felt like I had to keep explaining what I was really seeing because the stream felt so inaccurate. How can you use an image to show the displayed image intersecting or displaying behind a real object? A stereoscopic capture might help, but seeing how things react to head movement is a big part of visual understanding. A short stereoscopic video might give some of that, and yet there is still a difference between watching that video and being the person that moves their head to interrogate the environment.
- TrueGeek 5y agoI tried, I promise! I couldn't get anything. It really is a very small area of the lens where they show the HUD text.
- gumby 5y agoWe did have a special camera setup — it wasn’t just holding up a phone to the glass (that was handy to just show something, but it looked washed out because there was no head to block ambient lights). Those bigger cameras used by the press worked fine too even without a jig.
- DonHopkins 5y agoWhy not simply do what Magic Leap does, and blatantly fake the camera images and games that don't really and couldn't possibly exist? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28838500 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28838500 And then rip off other people's work without giving them any credit in your patents. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28838443 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28838443 And then sexually harass the very women you employed to solve the endemic "pink/blue problem" and fix the nepotistic sexist bro culture, and rebuff and ignore her advice, and pay her off to keep their mouth shut when she sues you for sexual harassment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28838421 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28838421 And then give the entire AR industry a bad name by not delivering on your outrageously hyped promises, while burning through BILLIONS of dollars and fucking over your foolishly gullible investors. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28838737 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28838737
- ndiddy 5y agoIs it difficult to focus on the text since it's so close to your eye? For example, if you hold your finger near your eve you can't focus on both your finger and stuff in the distance at the same time.
- underwater 5y agoThe article covers that: "However, you don’t see it on the glass. It looks like it’s about 10 feet in front of you."
- m_herrlich 5y agoMaybe pedantic, but this seems like just a heads-up display. AR implies the projected image interacts with real objects in your field of vision. I wouldn't call this AR. Nice HUD though.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- naikrovek 5y agowhat does "augmented" mean to you? to me, listening to a podcast while driving is probably augmented reality, and that has nothing to do with driving or the route I'm taking. this does augment the activity intended.
- lights0123 5y agoFrom the first sentence of Wikipedia: > Augmented reality (AR) is an interactive experience of a real-world environment where the objects that reside in the real world are enhanced by computer-generated perceptual information I agree in that there needs to be some interaction between real-world objects and virtual ones to be considered more than a simple HUD.
- GhettoComputers 5y agoThat sounds like where these glasses do. What do you want them to do in AR? Give you graphics?
- grassgreener 5y agoSomething like optimal trajectory or gamification of the surrounding environment
- GhettoComputers 5y agoI don’t see how that’s possible, it would have a prerendered map for a path like a game? use laser sensors to warn you of danger? I think it’s very possible on unnatural roads but on off-road it would not be useful.
- bredren 5y agoThanks for the review. This product reminds me of portable mp3 CD players with anti-skip technology. It was _good_ but it was missing the mark in so many ways and about to be obliterated by iPod.
- TrueGeek 5y agoThis is the analogy I'm going to use from now on when people ask how I liked them. I think Engo has a chance to win though, at least for a while. They could release v2 next year with improved hardware and a slightly lower price and cyclists would eat it up. Meanwhile, Apple is going to release their AR glasses but I don't think the initial version will be rugged enough for sports use. And I imagine they'll be MUCH more than $300.
- bredren 5y agoBased on how you described them, it sounds like they are pretty cool and there are thresholds people have for battery life and price. I know people who choose Garmin watches for those two reasons so they may have picked the right market to address with that compatibility. > I imagine they'll be MUCH more than $300. I am guessing they will be priced around $2500-3000.
- bee_rider 5y agoFour is an awful lot of digits. I bet they'll be $999.99+-$10.
- bredren 5y agoI can’t see gen one being that accessible. This product will replace high resolution monitors. I suspect part of the reason Apple has starved mid market 4K/5K is in anticipation of these obviating the need for a one or more monitors. If that’s the case, the glasses would avoid what would already have been a theoretical $2k Apple monitor. [1] Given these will also likely offer AR and access to apps and experiences monitors will not, I easily see the price crossing into the 3k territory. What I’m wondering is if they will integrate audio or it will pair with AirPods. And if they will use motion data from Watch off the bat. I’m guessing they will pair w airpods and watch. This would push the total cost of the complete system toward the $4k mark depending on what Watch / airpods are used. [1] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/why-are-5k-monitors-so-hard.2319583/page-2?post=30641053#post-30641053 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/why-are-5k-monitors-so-...
- tempestn 5y agoI'm blown away by the value in this review from a regular customer. Both in terms of reassuring others of the value of the product, and providing incredibly valuable real-world feedback to the company. I hope OP gets at least a personal thank-you from Engo, if not a free pair of their next iteration to review.
- gambiting 5y agoReally? Reading this review I wouldn't buy them - the whole gimmick of seeing your stats on the display falls apart if the stats just fail to display for no reason. Yeah cool that they are comfortable and the display isn't distracting, but if the stats sometimes don't show then why would you buy this, unless you like being a QC tester and paying for it.
- TrueGeek 5y agoHey, thanks for saying so. I've never reviewed a product before so wasn't sure how it'd go. I normally write (on another blog) about software development like the rest of the HN crowd so this was quite different for me.
- takk309 5y agoIt would be amazing if more real reviews of this depth existed, or where easy to find. Any long reviews are usually just crap ad copy, especially for sporting gear. To find the rare honest review is getting harder and harder.
- 5y ago