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Read Chapter 2: Teaching for Equity and Engagement https://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/ma/cf/documents/mathfwchapter2.docx https://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/ma/cf/documents/math

Read Chapter 2: Teaching for Equity and Engagement https://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/ma/cf/documents/mathfwchapter2.docx https://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/ma/cf/documents/mathfwchapter2.doc... Why are they integrating and layering the religion of social justice and gender ideology onto math? I would be just as alarmed if Christianity or any other religion or dogma or ideology was embedded with math and how it's taught. This document is pushing evangelical-level indoctrination and is certainly less about teaching math than our current system. At the very least it's orthogonal to learning how to add and subtract. "Teach Toward Social Justice" "Teachers can take a justice-oriented perspective at any grade level, K–12" "teachers need to work consciously to counter racialized or gendered ideas" "Students are able to take what they noticed and named – in this case, how gender played out in the problem" "Learning is not just a matter of gaining new knowledge—it is also about a change in identity. As teachers introduce mathematics to students, they are helping them shape their identity as people"

pas 5y ago
Because now it's the idea of the times and it's making its way into various spheres of life. Do we have data that it helps/worsens?
- deltarholamda 5y ago
  >Do we have data that it helps/worsens We've been playing games with education in the US for a while now. This identity stuff is the newest, but you can go back every decade or so for some 60 years and find some fad that was really big at the time. Now look at the test scores over time. Up? Down? Flat? Break it out into race, socioeconomic class, religion, however you want. Check again. Up? Down? Flat? We pretty well know how to teach things like math. It's a lot of drills. It's a lot of homework. It's word problems. It's all the things that both teachers and students hate, because it's annoying to do and annoying to check. But math is more or less like learning a language. You have to immerse yourself in it and do a lot of practice. And, in the end, you have to accept that some people are just not going to cut it. They will top out at about 8th grade basic Algebra. And that's okay! Cramming some kid who can't cut Calculus into a Calculus class just because you need to count a certain number of different colored noses is daft and unproductive. School should educate people to their maximum ability, and everybody's maximum ability is different. It doesn't matter if it makes you feel better to attribute somebody's poor performance to some vaporous societal ill. That's not helping. That's trying to shoehorn your preferred reality into actual reality. The hell of it is that it completely shafts those who really did earn their way into the top ranks. There is always the spectre that they're there because some administrator needed enough $IDENTITY to make their Powerpoint presentation look good.
  - pas 5y ago
    > hell of it is that it completely shafts those who really did earn their way into the top ranks But ... again do we know this based on data, or it's patting our own back for finding a logical consequence that seems to nuke the whole affirmative action system? > math I think the real problem is that we should not teach math, nor most of the abstract arts. We should teach learning, acquiring skills, and ... picking and sticking to strategies. And then it makes sense to help them learn whatever they want.
  - a9h74j 5y ago
    FWIW, a few years ago I read an article with short discussions of "100 Good Ideas in Education." The article was written by a well-qualified educational journalist. Again, FWIW, I'd estimate that at least 10% of the discussions essentially concluded with: But we can't do this because it would increase disparities.
    - throwaway19937 5y ago
      Do you have a link to the article? It sounds like an interesting read.
      - a9h74j 5y ago
        It was. Unfortunately, I was unable to find a link in either my files or through search.
dwater 5y ago
When I searched for the definition of indoctrination I get this: "The process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically." What I see in your examples does sound like teaching a set of beliefs, but there is nothing that I see where it is done uncritically. For example, there are stereotypes in our society about what genders and races are good at STEM and which are not. If a word problem reverses those stereotypes, do you think that encourages or discourages the reader to think critically about their own biases?
- loeg 5y ago
  > "The process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically." > there is nothing that I see where it is done uncritically. I mean, how is it going for those criticizing CRT-ification of education? It doesn't seem like its advocates are actually interested in criticism of the dogma.
  - asoneth 5y ago
    > how is it going for those criticizing CRT-ification of education? From what I can tell in our local area it seems to be going about as well as they hoped. First they rail against about some weird graduate-level field most people have never heard of that isn't related to anything taught in our elementary schools. Then they interpret the eyerolls from the other parents and patient administrators attempting to keep the conversation focused on relevant topics as attacks on their freedom and they get to play the martyr.
- autokad 5y ago
  there is nothing one would see where the teacher is doing it critically either. you just assumed they were because it fits your worldview. "yes, I believe this so children should be brainwashed at an early age to push the agenda that suits me" This is childhood rape. Those teachers are in a position of power and students are rewarded for believing what ever the teachers say as the truth. This is wrong.
- pishpash 5y ago
  I would suggest this not be done in math class, lest you go down this path [1]: "Before the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution there were 48 students in class one in Qunli Elementary: During the six years of obliteration by revisionism on the educational system, 13 students dropped out. All 13 students were from the worker or poor peasant families. Compute how many students from the worker or poor peasant families dropped out and how many were retained due to the obliteration by revisionism?" [1] https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.989.8567&rep=rep1&type=pdf https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.98...
whymauri 5y ago
>"Learning is not just a matter of gaining new knowledge—it is also about a change in identity. As teachers introduce mathematics to students, they are helping them shape their identity as people" I don't get it... what about this is so scary to you? Is it the word 'identity'? Because as a standalone statement, I actually think this is a healthy approach to education. I get that "social justice" and apparently now "justice" are loaded terms in our modern political discourse, but countering racialized ideas and framing education as a part of our identity as people/citizens... I mean, that hardly seems like objectionable to me.
- lapetitejort 5y ago
  Culture and identity have always been present in math. Starting words problems with "Bob makes $50,000 a year" or "Alice needs 10 onions from the store" helps frame men as workers and women as home-makers. Taken by themselves they're fairly innocuous. Combined with every other social signal children hear every day, they can perpetuate out of date and harmful stereotypes.
  - Out_of_Characte 5y ago
    My experience with those story driven math problems is that dyslexic people fail them despite doing well on pure math.
    - freemint 5y ago
      Yet being able to map real world problems into math problems and solve them is an essential skill. In my class in Europe story driven problems were read aloud.
  - BitwiseFool 5y ago
    "Starting words problems with "Bob makes $50,000 a year" or "Alice needs 10 onions from the store" helps frame men as workers and women as home-makers." This is one of those statements where part of your brain goes "well, I guess there might be atom-sized kernel of truth to this". But in reality, I doubt anyone is tangibly affected by the congruent use of Male/Female names in word problems that map to traditional Male/Female gender roles. I believe this is a result of a hypersensitive social-justice filter which results in an astonishingly large false-positive rate. Quite frankly, I just fail to see how gendered language in word problems not only 1) reflects math being inherently cultured and identity-based, 2) harmfully reinforces malicious stereotypes (people can just as easily write Alice makes $50,000 a year, Bob needs 10 onions from the store), and 3) are odious enough to justify a substantial, near fundamental, change in math education.
glerk 5y ago
Because the adults in the room are too afraid to speak up.
- seoaeu 5y ago
  Ah yes, the "silent majority" that won't stop screeching about any social change
- mizzack 5y ago
  That's because those adults don't want an EDUOFFICIALS flag on their FBI file.
octernion 5y ago
Because social justice and gender ideology are universal, important concepts that apply in mathematics and science as well? I fail to see how it is "clearly" indoctrination as it is taught critically (as is well evidenced in the link) unless you are some sort of "anti-SJW warrior" against any sort of modernization of our curriculum.
- jimbokun 5y ago
  > Because social justice and gender ideology are universal, important concepts that apply in mathematics and science as well? Then you are doing mathematics and science wrong. The whole point of those disciplines is to eliminate human bias in favor of objectivity in order to accurately understand the world, or to make correct conclusions or predictions based on axioms, observations, and data. If you introduce biases like gender ideology into those subjects, you are defeating the purpose.
  - octernion 5y ago
    The whole point is to remove biases -- did you even read any of the source material? Right now there is tremendous societal pressure and varying outcomes depending on _who_ you are (race/gender/other socioeconomic factors) and the entire point is to remove that from the equation to lead to better outcomes overall. To do that, you need to be aware of those factors and control for them. That is very basic science. You seem to be advocating putting ones head in the sand and saying that those factors don't matter and should be removed.
    - jimbokun 5y ago
      The point is to replace one set of biases with another, just changing the kind of bias.
lacrosse_tannin 5y ago
what does this have to do with the article?
joshuamorton 5y ago
What among these is "indoctrination"? > "teachers need to work consciously to counter racialized or gendered ideas" Is this wrong? Is it indoctrination? > "Are there word problems that challenge gender stereotypes?" I don't see the issue here. Should all word problems reflect 1920s America and ask about the challenges with the dust bowl harvest and how many bathroom stalls you need to serve a particular crowd, accounting for segregation? No that's silly. We want word problems to reflect the world we live in today, which means sometimes having physician Alice and nurse Bob. > "Learning is not just a matter of gaining new knowledge—it is also about a change in identity. As teachers introduce mathematics to students, they are helping them shape their identity as people" There's lots of discussion about how women especially, but also lots of minorities, seem to leave STEM after primary school. To me, this seems to be reminding educators that they should make an effort to keep these classes engaging and inviting for people who leave, in case the cause has historically been something in how we do math education. > "Students are able to take what they noticed and named – in this case, how gender played out in the problem" This is talking about teaching critical analysis (in the "how do I analyze a text" sense, not the "race theory" sense), where the teacher uses a math word problem as one of a number of places to do this. There's nothing wrong with this, in fact its actually really good to read critically in all contexts!
- ryan93 5y ago
  According to Joshua Morton black kids have low math test scores because 2021 schools use segregated bathrooms in math word problems.
cortesoft 5y ago
> layering the religion of social justice You can argue the best technique to accomplish the goal, but `social justice` just means that you believe every person deserves an equal opportunity to thrive. That is not a religion, that is the American dream. Social Justice is simply the idea that we actually need to work towards providing the American Dream to everyone. That shouldn't be controversial.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- twofornone 5y ago
  >`social justice` just means that you believe every person deserves an equal opportunity to thrive. That is not a religion, that is the American dream No. That is the surface level definition which insidiously hides the conflation between opportunity and equity that underlies the politicized restructuring of our institutions. Equality of outcome is only possible by hindering high achievers. In part it is the purely faith based belief in the tenet of tabula rasa that makes this movement resemble a religion. There is no quality science which suggests that all people are equally capable given identical environments; in fact such an assertion would completely deny the realities of genetics and culture.
- kardianos 5y ago
  a. That isn't "simply" what Social Justice is. Not by a long shot, not in practice. b. It sounds like you are arguing for Equality based on merit, allowing each person a chance to thrive. I agree, that would be great. But what is actually happening is different: equity, where in practice most implementations stunt growth and paper over achievement gaps. c. I want a equal opportunity to thrive. But "social justice" is also extra-judicial justice. It sounds nice, but isn't waht I want. See also "motte and bailey".
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  From my perspective, the term "Social Justice" is more of a rhetorical tool than a cohesive ideology. Yes, I know I can google "define social justice" but if you look at the results there is no agreed definition. You will instead see dozens of different think-thanks, universities, and NGOs 'define' social justice use very flowery feel-good language that is almost impossible to disagree with. And yet, the details about how to achieve such positive things are what people would actually disagree with. Your statement "That shouldn't be controversial" encapsulates this perfectly.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
kristjansson 5y ago
There's a critical distinction to your complaint - the linked doc addresses how one teaches math, not the math one teaches. It's not unreasonable to suggest that curricula authors maybe choose not to make all the $PREDOMINATELY_MALE_OCCUPATION characters in their word problems males etc. etc. Using the 'defaults' in construction of narrative problems and lessons is itself a choice, so why not take the one that tends toward equity, equality, and inclusion? The subsequent exercise suggesting a close reading of the gender roles in said word problems ... doesn't seem to have a lot to do with learning math, I'll grant.
- gorwell 5y ago
  They could handle that by providing a simple solution: Randomize names. This isn't about avoiding stereotypes though. This is about pushing a belief system and an agenda. A dangerously misguided one at that. Equity is about equal outcomes. Which you can only get through force because people have different preferences, different abilities and make different choices. Choices necessarily lead to different outcomes. Equality and equality of opportunity, yes, please. Equity, absolutely not.

pas 5y ago

Because now it's the idea of the times and it's making its way into various spheres of life. Do we have data that it helps/worsens?

deltarholamda 5y ago
>Do we have data that it helps/worsens We've been playing games with education in the US for a while now. This identity stuff is the newest, but you can go back every decade or so for some 60 years and find some fad that was really big at the time. Now look at the test scores over time. Up? Down? Flat? Break it out into race, socioeconomic class, religion, however you want. Check again. Up? Down? Flat? We pretty well know how to teach things like math. It's a lot of drills. It's a lot of homework. It's word problems. It's all the things that both teachers and students hate, because it's annoying to do and annoying to check. But math is more or less like learning a language. You have to immerse yourself in it and do a lot of practice. And, in the end, you have to accept that some people are just not going to cut it. They will top out at about 8th grade basic Algebra. And that's okay! Cramming some kid who can't cut Calculus into a Calculus class just because you need to count a certain number of different colored noses is daft and unproductive. School should educate people to their maximum ability, and everybody's maximum ability is different. It doesn't matter if it makes you feel better to attribute somebody's poor performance to some vaporous societal ill. That's not helping. That's trying to shoehorn your preferred reality into actual reality. The hell of it is that it completely shafts those who really did earn their way into the top ranks. There is always the spectre that they're there because some administrator needed enough $IDENTITY to make their Powerpoint presentation look good.
- pas 5y ago
  > hell of it is that it completely shafts those who really did earn their way into the top ranks But ... again do we know this based on data, or it's patting our own back for finding a logical consequence that seems to nuke the whole affirmative action system? > math I think the real problem is that we should not teach math, nor most of the abstract arts. We should teach learning, acquiring skills, and ... picking and sticking to strategies. And then it makes sense to help them learn whatever they want.
- a9h74j 5y ago
  FWIW, a few years ago I read an article with short discussions of "100 Good Ideas in Education." The article was written by a well-qualified educational journalist. Again, FWIW, I'd estimate that at least 10% of the discussions essentially concluded with: But we can't do this because it would increase disparities.
  - throwaway19937 5y ago
    Do you have a link to the article? It sounds like an interesting read.
    - a9h74j 5y ago
      It was. Unfortunately, I was unable to find a link in either my files or through search.

dwater 5y ago

When I searched for the definition of indoctrination I get this: "The process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically." What I see in your examples does sound like teaching a set of beliefs, but there is nothing that I see where it is done uncritically. For example, there are stereotypes in our society about what genders and races are good at STEM and which are not. If a word problem reverses those stereotypes, do you think that encourages or discourages the reader to think critically about their own biases?

loeg 5y ago
> "The process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically." > there is nothing that I see where it is done uncritically. I mean, how is it going for those criticizing CRT-ification of education? It doesn't seem like its advocates are actually interested in criticism of the dogma.
- asoneth 5y ago
  > how is it going for those criticizing CRT-ification of education? From what I can tell in our local area it seems to be going about as well as they hoped. First they rail against about some weird graduate-level field most people have never heard of that isn't related to anything taught in our elementary schools. Then they interpret the eyerolls from the other parents and patient administrators attempting to keep the conversation focused on relevant topics as attacks on their freedom and they get to play the martyr.
autokad 5y ago
there is nothing one would see where the teacher is doing it critically either. you just assumed they were because it fits your worldview. "yes, I believe this so children should be brainwashed at an early age to push the agenda that suits me" This is childhood rape. Those teachers are in a position of power and students are rewarded for believing what ever the teachers say as the truth. This is wrong.
pishpash 5y ago
I would suggest this not be done in math class, lest you go down this path [1]: "Before the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution there were 48 students in class one in Qunli Elementary: During the six years of obliteration by revisionism on the educational system, 13 students dropped out. All 13 students were from the worker or poor peasant families. Compute how many students from the worker or poor peasant families dropped out and how many were retained due to the obliteration by revisionism?" [1] https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.989.8567&rep=rep1&type=pdf https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.98...

whymauri 5y ago

>"Learning is not just a matter of gaining new knowledge—it is also about a change in identity. As teachers introduce mathematics to students, they are helping them shape their identity as people" I don't get it... what about this is so scary to you? Is it the word 'identity'? Because as a standalone statement, I actually think this is a healthy approach to education. I get that "social justice" and apparently now "justice" are loaded terms in our modern political discourse, but countering racialized ideas and framing education as a part of our identity as people/citizens... I mean, that hardly seems like objectionable to me.

lapetitejort 5y ago
Culture and identity have always been present in math. Starting words problems with "Bob makes $50,000 a year" or "Alice needs 10 onions from the store" helps frame men as workers and women as home-makers. Taken by themselves they're fairly innocuous. Combined with every other social signal children hear every day, they can perpetuate out of date and harmful stereotypes.
- Out_of_Characte 5y ago
  My experience with those story driven math problems is that dyslexic people fail them despite doing well on pure math.
  - freemint 5y ago
    Yet being able to map real world problems into math problems and solve them is an essential skill. In my class in Europe story driven problems were read aloud.
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  "Starting words problems with "Bob makes $50,000 a year" or "Alice needs 10 onions from the store" helps frame men as workers and women as home-makers." This is one of those statements where part of your brain goes "well, I guess there might be atom-sized kernel of truth to this". But in reality, I doubt anyone is tangibly affected by the congruent use of Male/Female names in word problems that map to traditional Male/Female gender roles. I believe this is a result of a hypersensitive social-justice filter which results in an astonishingly large false-positive rate. Quite frankly, I just fail to see how gendered language in word problems not only 1) reflects math being inherently cultured and identity-based, 2) harmfully reinforces malicious stereotypes (people can just as easily write Alice makes $50,000 a year, Bob needs 10 onions from the store), and 3) are odious enough to justify a substantial, near fundamental, change in math education.

glerk 5y ago

Because the adults in the room are too afraid to speak up.

seoaeu 5y ago
Ah yes, the "silent majority" that won't stop screeching about any social change
mizzack 5y ago
That's because those adults don't want an EDUOFFICIALS flag on their FBI file.

octernion 5y ago

Because social justice and gender ideology are universal, important concepts that apply in mathematics and science as well? I fail to see how it is "clearly" indoctrination as it is taught critically (as is well evidenced in the link) unless you are some sort of "anti-SJW warrior" against any sort of modernization of our curriculum.

jimbokun 5y ago
> Because social justice and gender ideology are universal, important concepts that apply in mathematics and science as well? Then you are doing mathematics and science wrong. The whole point of those disciplines is to eliminate human bias in favor of objectivity in order to accurately understand the world, or to make correct conclusions or predictions based on axioms, observations, and data. If you introduce biases like gender ideology into those subjects, you are defeating the purpose.
- octernion 5y ago
  The whole point is to remove biases -- did you even read any of the source material? Right now there is tremendous societal pressure and varying outcomes depending on _who_ you are (race/gender/other socioeconomic factors) and the entire point is to remove that from the equation to lead to better outcomes overall. To do that, you need to be aware of those factors and control for them. That is very basic science. You seem to be advocating putting ones head in the sand and saying that those factors don't matter and should be removed.
  - jimbokun 5y ago
    The point is to replace one set of biases with another, just changing the kind of bias.

lacrosse_tannin 5y ago

what does this have to do with the article?

joshuamorton 5y ago

What among these is "indoctrination"? > "teachers need to work consciously to counter racialized or gendered ideas" Is this wrong? Is it indoctrination? > "Are there word problems that challenge gender stereotypes?" I don't see the issue here. Should all word problems reflect 1920s America and ask about the challenges with the dust bowl harvest and how many bathroom stalls you need to serve a particular crowd, accounting for segregation? No that's silly. We want word problems to reflect the world we live in today, which means sometimes having physician Alice and nurse Bob. > "Learning is not just a matter of gaining new knowledge—it is also about a change in identity. As teachers introduce mathematics to students, they are helping them shape their identity as people" There's lots of discussion about how women especially, but also lots of minorities, seem to leave STEM after primary school. To me, this seems to be reminding educators that they should make an effort to keep these classes engaging and inviting for people who leave, in case the cause has historically been something in how we do math education. > "Students are able to take what they noticed and named – in this case, how gender played out in the problem" This is talking about teaching critical analysis (in the "how do I analyze a text" sense, not the "race theory" sense), where the teacher uses a math word problem as one of a number of places to do this. There's nothing wrong with this, in fact its actually really good to read critically in all contexts!

ryan93 5y ago
According to Joshua Morton black kids have low math test scores because 2021 schools use segregated bathrooms in math word problems.

cortesoft 5y ago

> layering the religion of social justice You can argue the best technique to accomplish the goal, but `social justice` just means that you believe every person deserves an equal opportunity to thrive. That is not a religion, that is the American dream. Social Justice is simply the idea that we actually need to work towards providing the American Dream to everyone. That shouldn't be controversial.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
twofornone 5y ago
>`social justice` just means that you believe every person deserves an equal opportunity to thrive. That is not a religion, that is the American dream No. That is the surface level definition which insidiously hides the conflation between opportunity and equity that underlies the politicized restructuring of our institutions. Equality of outcome is only possible by hindering high achievers. In part it is the purely faith based belief in the tenet of tabula rasa that makes this movement resemble a religion. There is no quality science which suggests that all people are equally capable given identical environments; in fact such an assertion would completely deny the realities of genetics and culture.
kardianos 5y ago
a. That isn't "simply" what Social Justice is. Not by a long shot, not in practice. b. It sounds like you are arguing for Equality based on merit, allowing each person a chance to thrive. I agree, that would be great. But what is actually happening is different: equity, where in practice most implementations stunt growth and paper over achievement gaps. c. I want a equal opportunity to thrive. But "social justice" is also extra-judicial justice. It sounds nice, but isn't waht I want. See also "motte and bailey".
BitwiseFool 5y ago
From my perspective, the term "Social Justice" is more of a rhetorical tool than a cohesive ideology. Yes, I know I can google "define social justice" but if you look at the results there is no agreed definition. You will instead see dozens of different think-thanks, universities, and NGOs 'define' social justice use very flowery feel-good language that is almost impossible to disagree with. And yet, the details about how to achieve such positive things are what people would actually disagree with. Your statement "That shouldn't be controversial" encapsulates this perfectly.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

kristjansson 5y ago

There's a critical distinction to your complaint - the linked doc addresses how one teaches math, not the math one teaches. It's not unreasonable to suggest that curricula authors maybe choose not to make all the $PREDOMINATELY_MALE_OCCUPATION characters in their word problems males etc. etc. Using the 'defaults' in construction of narrative problems and lessons is itself a choice, so why not take the one that tends toward equity, equality, and inclusion? The subsequent exercise suggesting a close reading of the gender roles in said word problems ... doesn't seem to have a lot to do with learning math, I'll grant.

gorwell 5y ago
They could handle that by providing a simple solution: Randomize names. This isn't about avoiding stereotypes though. This is about pushing a belief system and an agenda. A dangerously misguided one at that. Equity is about equal outcomes. Which you can only get through force because people have different preferences, different abilities and make different choices. Choices necessarily lead to different outcomes. Equality and equality of opportunity, yes, please. Equity, absolutely not.