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Your dad crawling up the stairs is helping to fend off muscle atrophy. There's a risk of course. Falling down the stairs could lead to death after complications

Your dad crawling up the stairs is helping to fend off muscle atrophy. There's a risk of course. Falling down the stairs could lead to death after complications. But it's not as out-right bad as you might assume, and crawling reduces the fall risk a bit. Falling is a risk even with normal walking. But if you don't have some movement in their life, they degrade faster and die sooner. There is risk from all choices

pelagos 5y ago
classic hackernews response
- mindslight 5y ago
  If you think hacker news has a single minded strength of will, you haven't met an old man. Like seriously if your Dad is crawling up the stairs, he has already decided that He Will Keep Using Both Floors Of His House Until He Physically Can't Anymore. Apart from completely destroying his agency, you are not going to stop this.
  - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
    The best thing to do would be to get a motorised chair for the stairs if possible. Just in case, I mean it's obvious that his Dad doesn't need it, but maybe one day he will ;).
    - jfk13 5y ago
      Yes, sounds like this could be a wise move. My dad (now 95, living alone in his 3-storey house since mum died around 7 years ago) had one installed a few years back, and although he doesn't always use it, it's invaluable for the times/days when he's feeling that bit less mobile. Without it, he couldn't have stayed in the house -- and leaving it is almost unthinkable. (Sure, some day there may be no choice. But it has unquestionably given him additional years of independence and stability in his own home.)
  - sleightofmind 5y ago
    Well said. I can tell you're speaking from hard-earned experience. To respect your aging parent's agency as long as their mental faculties permit is one of the greatest acts of love one can give to their parent. It might be hard to watch at times -- a single fall can turn a man who is a young 80 into a man who is an old 80. But our obligation is not to infantilize our aging parents, but to love, respect, and help them when it's needed. They know they're a banana peel away from the old folk's home or a cold slab. They've wrestled with, reasoned with, and made peace with the indignities of old age and infirmity. They know what lies around the next bend, and it ain't pretty. Respect their choices. Bad stuff happens to old people even when they are compliant with the wishes of those who would protect them. Give them their freedom and dignity even though it comes with risk. I don't say you shouldn't reason with them, plead with them, and explain the dangers to them. But never forget to respect their wishes. They know what comes next and accept it. Do you?
- RonaldOlzheim 5y ago
  Why classic?
czbond 5y ago
My dad suggested there are three events that turn an individual from "able to be home" to assisted care (which is very expensive). 1) Change in ability to walk, which triggers 2) Inability to take care of and feed themselves, which triggers a slew of medications to try to combat 3) Inability to go to bathroom by themselves Keep people moving. Build strength early - strength training is great (people begin losing strength as early as 50's and it dominos). Eat more healthily earlier in life and continue (when a person cannot cook for themselves, they tend to eat high salt, high fat, frozen foods - which becomes less healthy). Also, look into assisted policy care insurance.
- reacharavindh 5y ago
  Agree with you on everything, except frozen foods. I am in my mid 30s. I like to cook and try to eat healthy. I have read at many places on the internet that frozen vegetables in some occasions are healthier than the ones I can at the supermarket- because they are flash frozen, retaining most nutritional value vegetables stay out in shipping and shelves far too long losing nutritional value. Also that they tend to be picked before their time to accommodate for shipping and shelving while frozen vegetables are picked ripe for freezing. Frozen processed foods like pizzas, ready to eat foods loaded with preservatives are bad as one can imagine. It was counterintuitive to me that frozen veggies can be better than fresh looking ones from supermarket. Same goes with tomatoes from supermarket shelves versus tomatoes in a tin - apparently the tin ones have better nutrients because they were more ripe when they went into the tin, while supermarket tomatoes were picked well before they were ripe.
  - bkandel 5y ago
    I read that as "frozen foods that are high in fat and salt".
    - czbond 5y ago
      Your interpretation is what I meant. Above poster does have a point about vegetables frozen being more healthy.
  - 5y ago
vr46 5y ago
Falling has worse outcomes than the immediate ones. Both my parents passed away after a chain of events that began with a low-speed fall just onto the floor that damaged their lower body. The resulting incapacity and muscular wastage led to a multitude of issues that I don't want to go into but I would say that keeping elderly people safe from falls is extremely important. That and diet and healthcare. Activity is crucial, but done safely.
- germinalphrase 5y ago
  A relative of mine (M/90) recently went from fairly independent to passing within three weeks of what appeared - initially - to be a moderate fall. The cascading health impacts were all secondary to the fall itself.
- fallinghawks 5y ago
  My mom went a similar way. Low speed fall right after her bath, no obvious damage, but she was on the floor for over 48 hours. Life alert was not a waterproof model and so she had not yet put it back on. The weakness induced by lack of food and water then being in a hospital bed for weeks rendered her unable to walk (she had used a cane prior, though would have been better with a walker). While in hospital and the recovery facility she was not allowed her medications for breast cancer, and within 5 weeks of her fall, cancer cells were found in some pleural fluid buildup. At that point it was hospice. These things just pile on top of each other, and at a late stage in life recovery is much harder.
georgeecollins 5y ago
I am no expert but I do question the tactic of avoiding dangerous things like stairs based on unscientific anecdote of my own experience. Both my parents live upstairs in a two story house. My Dad still drives, which terrifies me. He recently started a drive from San Francisco to Los Angeles with my sister in the car who took over after a bout an hour, understandably. My Dad retired from work reluctantly at 90. They do a bunch of things that worry me but they are also 92 and 91 and living active independent lives. So there is some value in the risk taking. I do think there is science to back up the idea that as your parents get older it is really helpful for them to have younger friends. For my Dad this came through work, for my Mom through friends who enjoyed concerts and plays. The point is to try to get them to have a connection with younger people. It's depressing, but my Mom says all her original friends have died off. For your parents it could be a hobby, taking care of grand kids, etc.

pelagos 5y ago

classic hackernews response

mindslight 5y ago
If you think hacker news has a single minded strength of will, you haven't met an old man. Like seriously if your Dad is crawling up the stairs, he has already decided that He Will Keep Using Both Floors Of His House Until He Physically Can't Anymore. Apart from completely destroying his agency, you are not going to stop this.
- disgruntledphd2 5y ago
  The best thing to do would be to get a motorised chair for the stairs if possible. Just in case, I mean it's obvious that his Dad doesn't need it, but maybe one day he will ;).
  - jfk13 5y ago
    Yes, sounds like this could be a wise move. My dad (now 95, living alone in his 3-storey house since mum died around 7 years ago) had one installed a few years back, and although he doesn't always use it, it's invaluable for the times/days when he's feeling that bit less mobile. Without it, he couldn't have stayed in the house -- and leaving it is almost unthinkable. (Sure, some day there may be no choice. But it has unquestionably given him additional years of independence and stability in his own home.)
- sleightofmind 5y ago
  Well said. I can tell you're speaking from hard-earned experience. To respect your aging parent's agency as long as their mental faculties permit is one of the greatest acts of love one can give to their parent. It might be hard to watch at times -- a single fall can turn a man who is a young 80 into a man who is an old 80. But our obligation is not to infantilize our aging parents, but to love, respect, and help them when it's needed. They know they're a banana peel away from the old folk's home or a cold slab. They've wrestled with, reasoned with, and made peace with the indignities of old age and infirmity. They know what lies around the next bend, and it ain't pretty. Respect their choices. Bad stuff happens to old people even when they are compliant with the wishes of those who would protect them. Give them their freedom and dignity even though it comes with risk. I don't say you shouldn't reason with them, plead with them, and explain the dangers to them. But never forget to respect their wishes. They know what comes next and accept it. Do you?
RonaldOlzheim 5y ago
Why classic?

czbond 5y ago

My dad suggested there are three events that turn an individual from "able to be home" to assisted care (which is very expensive). 1) Change in ability to walk, which triggers 2) Inability to take care of and feed themselves, which triggers a slew of medications to try to combat 3) Inability to go to bathroom by themselves Keep people moving. Build strength early - strength training is great (people begin losing strength as early as 50's and it dominos). Eat more healthily earlier in life and continue (when a person cannot cook for themselves, they tend to eat high salt, high fat, frozen foods - which becomes less healthy). Also, look into assisted policy care insurance.

reacharavindh 5y ago
Agree with you on everything, except frozen foods. I am in my mid 30s. I like to cook and try to eat healthy. I have read at many places on the internet that frozen vegetables in some occasions are healthier than the ones I can at the supermarket- because they are flash frozen, retaining most nutritional value vegetables stay out in shipping and shelves far too long losing nutritional value. Also that they tend to be picked before their time to accommodate for shipping and shelving while frozen vegetables are picked ripe for freezing. Frozen processed foods like pizzas, ready to eat foods loaded with preservatives are bad as one can imagine. It was counterintuitive to me that frozen veggies can be better than fresh looking ones from supermarket. Same goes with tomatoes from supermarket shelves versus tomatoes in a tin - apparently the tin ones have better nutrients because they were more ripe when they went into the tin, while supermarket tomatoes were picked well before they were ripe.
- bkandel 5y ago
  I read that as "frozen foods that are high in fat and salt".
  - czbond 5y ago
    Your interpretation is what I meant. Above poster does have a point about vegetables frozen being more healthy.
- 5y ago

vr46 5y ago

Falling has worse outcomes than the immediate ones. Both my parents passed away after a chain of events that began with a low-speed fall just onto the floor that damaged their lower body. The resulting incapacity and muscular wastage led to a multitude of issues that I don't want to go into but I would say that keeping elderly people safe from falls is extremely important. That and diet and healthcare. Activity is crucial, but done safely.

germinalphrase 5y ago
A relative of mine (M/90) recently went from fairly independent to passing within three weeks of what appeared - initially - to be a moderate fall. The cascading health impacts were all secondary to the fall itself.
fallinghawks 5y ago
My mom went a similar way. Low speed fall right after her bath, no obvious damage, but she was on the floor for over 48 hours. Life alert was not a waterproof model and so she had not yet put it back on. The weakness induced by lack of food and water then being in a hospital bed for weeks rendered her unable to walk (she had used a cane prior, though would have been better with a walker). While in hospital and the recovery facility she was not allowed her medications for breast cancer, and within 5 weeks of her fall, cancer cells were found in some pleural fluid buildup. At that point it was hospice. These things just pile on top of each other, and at a late stage in life recovery is much harder.

georgeecollins 5y ago

I am no expert but I do question the tactic of avoiding dangerous things like stairs based on unscientific anecdote of my own experience. Both my parents live upstairs in a two story house. My Dad still drives, which terrifies me. He recently started a drive from San Francisco to Los Angeles with my sister in the car who took over after a bout an hour, understandably. My Dad retired from work reluctantly at 90. They do a bunch of things that worry me but they are also 92 and 91 and living active independent lives. So there is some value in the risk taking. I do think there is science to back up the idea that as your parents get older it is really helpful for them to have younger friends. For my Dad this came through work, for my Mom through friends who enjoyed concerts and plays. The point is to try to get them to have a connection with younger people. It's depressing, but my Mom says all her original friends have died off. For your parents it could be a hobby, taking care of grand kids, etc.