12 ms·

How to rest well

326 points by rognjen 5y ago

elisom78 5y ago
[dead]
thejackgoode 5y ago
I've been doing "shallow rest" (think your typical mindless binge on anything) for whole my life and it has been difficult to convince myself or even find resources to become involved in resting, making it "deep rest" as mentioned in the article. Anyone has a good personal perspective on how to learn to do it?
- Davexon 5y ago
  Travel alone to scenic places with no connectivity.
- ddek 5y ago
  Judging by OP, I’d say I have a pretty good handle on ‘deep rest’. I think it’s more because I’m quite deliberate than because I planned it this way, but it functions well as rest. I have almost total separation of work and personal life. Be purposeful with sleep. Work out how many hours you need, have a schedule, stick to it. I do 2200-0600, if I’m out late I still get up at 0600, a few ‘short’ nights a week won’t ruin my energy. Also, if I’m stuck at home, nothing interesting happens after 10pm. Distractions like my phone are kept in another room. Push mindless binging out for more intensive activities. As OP says, rest does not have to be relaxed. It doesn’t have to be solitary, although it can be. The things I do (and what they bring me) are: board gaming (social), tennis (social, competition, exercise), running (solitary, calming, exercise), woodworking (solitary, satisfaction), Age of Empires II (competition), and piano (solitary, creative). It seems a lot when I write it down, but I still have a fair amount of downtime.
- andai 5y ago
  Go to the sauna, get a massage, or float in a warm salt water tank for an hour.
  - kvgr 5y ago
    Sauna is great, no phone and temperature shocks are great for me to calm down the brain.
  - chaoz_ 5y ago
    Is that why Finland is happiest country in the world?
- 0x008 5y ago
  I just go for walks without taking my phone with me. Works alright.
  - tinyhouse 5y ago
    Same. But my brain is consistently thinking about stuff. I wonder if it's still rest?
    - 0x008 5y ago
      If you do not chase the thoughts or try to actively think it should stop sometimes and not think all the time. If I understand the article correct then rest is not about “not thinking”. Rest can also be about engagement (for example sports or a making music). Just using different parts of your brain which are usually not directly used for work. If it never stops thinking try meditation practice, it will help after a couple times already (for me at least). Also sometimes it can be good to “reset” the brain by going into the wilderness or a retreat or have a day nap.
    - mrweasel 5y ago
      That's why I go for walks. I believe it frees up time for the brain to think through stuff without getting interrupted. Sure it might be a series of incohernt throughs and ideas, but that's fine, now they've been processed and the mind can relax.
      - jimpix45 5y ago
        I also like doing this and I'll try to focus on what I'm seeing during my walk which helps my brain not to wander worrying about work or other stressors but it allows me to be in the moment.
- treme 5y ago
  Non-Sleep Deep Rest (NSDR): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL02HRFk2vo& https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL02HRFk2vo& Yoga Nidra version https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=yoga+nidra+20+min https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=yoga+nidra+20+m... try either, and see how you feel compared to your usual rest methods, gl
- jasfi 5y ago
  Make it a goal for a specific day. Turn off all your devices, except for your phone (if you really have to be contactable or check something).
  - mlac 5y ago
    I’m taking this to the extreme and purchasing a bluetooth home phone, so I can leave my phone in a room with the base station, and still pick up if someone calls / texts throughout the day. But no apps or anything. Gives me a way to get out of connection anxiety. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086PYS5VG?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp&th=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086PYS5VG?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&ref_...
- tradesmanhelix 5y ago
  I find that whatever I'm doing (binging a show, taking a walk, playing a video game, etc.) is much more restful when I'm fully present. For me, this means putting my phone and any other distracting technology away (or even turning it off) and just fully immersing myself in whatever I'm doing. Additionally, I find a bit of boredom is helpful in making an activity restful. For example, I love The Expanse TV show but sometimes it's very slow moving and I find myself wanting to stimulate my brain more than it's currently being stimulated by the show if that makes sense. However, I've found that if I embrace the boredom, resist the urge to take my eyes off of the TV, and just "float" in the moment so to speak, after about 15-20 mins the discomfort fades and I lose myself in the narrative. I find this "losing of oneself" in an activity or experience to be very restful and rejuvenating.
- neltnerb 5y ago
  I think it's the same as trying to form any other habit intentionally. Have a bed that you sleep in. Don't do anything in that bed other than sleep. If you are laying trying to sleep and find you cannot, get out of that bed and go elsewhere. This trains you to associate that bed with sleep and nothing else. It makes it so that when you go there in the future you have an ingrained habit that tells you it is time to sleep. Even reading in bed screwed it up for me. I think basically the same approach fits any other activity. If you want to get deeply in the flow for learning karate you have a dojo that you associate with it. You get way less distracted because you only do one thing there. I think sleep or laying still and meditating is about the most useful kind of rest for me, so I originally mostly talked about sleep. I think that the ability to get deeply into a task is generally strongly associated with environmental cues. Bowing before you start karate practice is a formal way to move into deep practice, even if you're practicing on your own.
marcoslozada 5y ago
Essential for entrepreneurs!
oedmarap 5y ago
One of the strategies that changed my sleep quality for the better is to stop taking coffee after 9 AM; after learning that caffeine has a half-life of around 6-7 hours[0], but a quarter-life of around 12 hours. If you have a cup of coffee at noon, a quarter of that caffeine can still be circulating around your brain at midnight. [0] https://youtu.be/k5BMGmf1ai0 https://youtu.be/k5BMGmf1ai0
- glogla 5y ago
  Pedantic HN style comment: doesn't half-life of 6 hours always imply "quarter-life" of 12 hours? :) (though I wouldn't have realized that without your comment, so thanks for that)
  - christophilus 5y ago
    Depends on if it’s linear or a curve, right?
    - dkeidowb 5y ago
      Are there any examples of this? If its half-life is 6 hours, then after six hours half of the caffeine is still there, and we know caffeine has a half life of 6 hours. I don't know of any molecules with a non-linear half-life but I might be completely wrong
      - wfn 5y ago
        There's a whole area for this - pharmacokinetics. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_half-life#Rate_equations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_half-life#Rate_equa... for examples of e.g. first order models (exponential elimination rate, etc.) It has to do with protein binding dynamics among other factors I have no idea about. Remember that you are dealing with biological systems. Some of these processes to do with elimination and clearance are very much non-linear and are modelled with diff equations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physiologically_based_pharmacokinetic_modelling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physiologically_based_pharmaco...
MrJagil 5y ago
Good timing, I’ve been meaing to ask HN: what’s the best book on “sleep”?
- i_love_limes 5y ago
  This is a very popular and quite detailed pop science book on sleep written by a prof of neuroscience: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34466963-why-we-sleep https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34466963-why-we-sleep
  - nojs 5y ago
    Note that this book tells you all about why we sleep, and gives you a lot of scary stats, but almost nothing practical about how to sleep better. If you already know sleep is important and want actionable advice, this book won’t help.
    - helpfulmandrill 5y ago
      The actionable advice for me was just "you have permission to sleep 8 hours, it isn't a waste of your life. No animal escapes the need to sleep, and thinking you can 'game the system' by robbing yourself of sleep night after night is the height of arrogance." I never had any problem sleeping, I just wouldn't let myself do it enough.
    - kmtrowbr 5y ago
      This is not true -- he does give good advice, it's just that it can be summarized in a single page. In fact the last page of the book has his 12 tips. They are widely shared across the internet -- here is one such place: https://fastlifehacks.com/matthew-walker-12-tips-for-good-sleep/ https://fastlifehacks.com/matthew-walker-12-tips-for-good-sl... So the book is mostly documenting his research into the negative effects of a lack of sleep. Totally worthy and interesting. But the great thing for YOU is that you don't need to read the book. Just those 12 tips. I'm 41. Over the years I have tried lots of ways to sleep well: various herbs, pills, etc. Ultimately I found, for me, there's no way to hack it. Good sleep is a part of lifestyle. Matthew Walker says the most important thing is routine: now I get in bed at 9:30pm, I read for an hour, I fall asleep around 11pm, I wake up at 6:55, etc. Almost every day, I allow some flex on the weekend. And a party is a party, I give myself a freebie on those (sadly increasingly rare) occasions. You must get reasonable daily exercise. You can't drink a lot of alcohol and expect to sleep well. Don't bring your devices into the bedroom, read a paper book. Try to get cozy at night. Chamomile tea is wonderful. Look into sleep masks as I found as I got older I became more sensitive to light & a sleep mask helps. Spend some money on your bedroom: a good mattress, fan, blinds, the right temperature, etc. It totally works! I sleep fantastic these days! Best of luck to you in turn.
sdevonoes 5y ago
> A 20-minute nap provides an energy boost comparable with a cup of strong coffee (without the later crash). This is not true for me. If I get a 20-minute nap in the middle of the day, I wake up wasted. It takes around another 20 minutes for me to get really awaken.
- Juliate 5y ago
  Been there. If you haven't do so already, perhaps you could try to experiment within +/- 5/10 minutes, to see where you sleep cycle hits better. It can make a whole lot of a difference.
- hvgk 5y ago
  Same trouble here. I find it’s better to get up and go for a 20 minute walk instead. That pulls all the right strings in my brain.
  - xwdv 5y ago
    20 minutes is too long. You can get similar benefits by performing a few minutes of depth jumps to shock the central nervous system.
    - formerly_proven 5y ago
      I agree - don't talk a walk, it's an unnecessary hit on your productivity. But, depth jumps require you to get up, which again seems unnecessary to me if you can just taser the CNS directly to wake it up.
      - flerchin 5y ago
        Like an actual taser?
        probotect0r 5y ago
        No, that would require moving your arm, which seems unnecessary. A figurative one will have to suffice \s
helpfulmandrill 5y ago
So we've got to optimize rest now? I'm so tired of this world.
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  We always have. This article is for the person who doesn't understand, or hasn't implemented, good work/rest balance.
- leobg 5y ago
  Haha. I said the same thing to Tim Ferriss in 2010 when he talked about “hacking” meditation. He did not take that well.
  - mrweasel 5y ago
    That is hilarious. Ferriss is an interesting guy, but there's something funky going on when you're trying to "hack" century old concept. It's basically Schwarzenegger telling you to sleep faster.
- rocketpastsix 5y ago
  Unfortunately, yea we do. Now that more people are working from home the lines between work and not work are incredibly blurred. Add the increased connectivity we all have (email/slack/teams/etc on phones, laptops as work computers), it is essential we build good and meaningful habits of rest.
- glial 5y ago
  Relevant recent post from the always delightful Convivial Society: https://theconvivialsociety.substack.com/p/you-cant-optimize-for-rest https://theconvivialsociety.substack.com/p/you-cant-optimize... Takeaway: There are two key points. First, our exhaustion—in its various material and immaterial dimensions—is a consequence of the part we play in a techno-social milieu whose rhythms, scale, pace, and demands are not conducive to our well-being, to say nothing of the well-being of other creatures and the planet we share. Second, the remedies to which we often turn may themselves be counterproductive because their function is not to alter the larger system which has yielded a state of chronic exhaustion but rather to keep us functioning within it. Moreover, not only do the remedies fail to address the root of the problem, but there’s also a tendency to carry into our efforts to find rest the very same spirit which animates the system that left us tired and burnt out. Rest takes on the character of a project to be completed or an experience to be consumed. In neither case do we ultimately find any sort of meaningful and enduring relief or renewal.
2-718-281-828 5y ago
Sorry, but this is one of those articles where I don't care about the content but only about the discussion here.
- shoto_io 5y ago
  no need to be sorry about :) I always jump to the discussions first before reading the article.
  - 2-718-281-828 5y ago
    I mean I tried reading it but it was so shallow an meandering - couldn't bear it
    - kodisha 5y ago
      My first year at HN - 95% articles, 5% comments 10+ years later - 95% comments, 5% reading articles themselves.
- jader201 5y ago
  I almost always prefer reading discussion of a topic from many people, vs. a monologue of one person’s opinion. That’s the way I almost always use HN, for better or worse.
curtson 5y ago
This is actually a great read that helps me understand and appreciate the importance of rest.
machiaweliczny 5y ago
I was on the weeding and got super tired once so I wanted to take nap. Couldn't really nap (I can't) but just relaxed body and tried to not think about anything for 20 minutes. I felt after that like after whole night good of sleep. Was very surprised that it worked.
- themodelplumber 5y ago
  That's a great result. Sometimes I think resting as "waiting while doing nothing" is good enough if it simply keeps one from working during the bottom of a local ultradian pattern. Coming back up out of that pattern by itself should naturally feel better.
- randcraw 5y ago
  How different is that from alpha meditation, where you free yourself from all thoughts, thereby entering a pre-sleep state of mind?
doreal 5y ago
One of my favorite essay is Adorno's "Free Time" in The Culture Industry [0]. When someone talks of work and rest as opposite, I always think of this quote: >I have no hobby. Not that I am the kind of workaholic, who is incapable of doing anything with his time but applying himself industriously to the required task. But, as far as my activities beyond the bounds of my recognized profession are concerned, I take them all, without exception, very seriously. Free Time and Rest are actually what makes us intelligent and creative. Work is experienced within its own constraint while free time let us explore and make fortunate mistakes. [0]: http://xenopraxis.net/readings/adorno_freetime.pdf http://xenopraxis.net/readings/adorno_freetime.pdf
bobthechef 5y ago
Josef Pieper[0] has written about leisure at length. What we call "rest" today is largely either idleness or recreation and something meant only to "recharge us" so that we can continue to work. But this is ass-backwards and not leisure. Leisure is what we work for and this was reflected, among other things, in the medieval culture of religious feasts. Our modern culture is a work-centric culture, but the middle ages were more of a leisure-centric culture. To better understand what leisure is, Pieper points to the etymological roots of words like "school" (from the Greek word for "leisure") and points to the distinction between the liberal arts and the servile arts (the former are superior to the latter and what the latter exist to enable). By definition, work is for the sake of something; you don't work for work's sake. Our culture either worships work for its own sake (an absurdity and largely a neurotic distraction from our own nihilism) or it terminates with a preoccupation with consumption and indulgence of various appetites. A culture frustrated by a false materialistic/mechanistic anthropology will produce this kind of vulgar ethos. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/767958.Leisure https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/767958.Leisure
- mattgreenrocks 5y ago
  This is one of the few books I re-read on a yearly basis. It is convicting.
justinzollars 5y ago
Best advice for quality of sleep: Stop drinking.
- BareNakedCoder 5y ago
  Best advice for quantity of sleep: don't stop drinking :)
  - drclau 5y ago
    Rather, be more selective about what you drink, and when. :) Typically, you want to avoid even water some time before going to sleep, such that you won’t wake up to go to the bathroom.
dec0dedab0de 5y ago
One thing that really helps me rest better is sleeping on my back. It's more difficult to fall asleep that way, but the sleep I get seems to count more. I dont know why, but it does. I've been doing it since I was a kid, so it's gotten easier, but It's still a struggle to not roll over a few times a week.
- WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
  Looks like you’re my opposite number or something. I cannot become sleepy unless I’m on my back, but then to actually sleep, I need to turn over.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
l33tbro 5y ago
Honestly just take magnesium before bed and thank me later. 150mg should do it.
- pps 5y ago
  I'm on 200mg of magnesium taurate. Magnesium l-threonate years ago when the hype for it started. Absolutely no difference in anything. Also taking l-theanine + apigenin (mix that Andrew Huberman recommends) - same effect. But for people with not-the-best diet magnesium is definitely beneficial for health so it's good to take it anyway.
  - l33tbro 5y ago
    Might it be a biochemistry thing rather than diet? I eat very few processed carbs and sugars and enjoy deep, restful sleep with most off-the shelf magnesium. L-theanine is fantastic too with my morning coffee. Alertness without the jitters.
jordanmorgan10 5y ago
I guess I missed the most important step which probably was don’t have three kids under 7.

326 points by rognjen 5y ago

[dead]

I've been doing "shallow rest" (think your typical mindless binge on anything) for whole my life and it has been difficult to convince myself or even find resources to become involved in resting, making it "deep rest" as mentioned in the article. Anyone has a good personal perspective on how to learn to do it?

Davexon 5y ago
Travel alone to scenic places with no connectivity.
ddek 5y ago
Judging by OP, I’d say I have a pretty good handle on ‘deep rest’. I think it’s more because I’m quite deliberate than because I planned it this way, but it functions well as rest. I have almost total separation of work and personal life. Be purposeful with sleep. Work out how many hours you need, have a schedule, stick to it. I do 2200-0600, if I’m out late I still get up at 0600, a few ‘short’ nights a week won’t ruin my energy. Also, if I’m stuck at home, nothing interesting happens after 10pm. Distractions like my phone are kept in another room. Push mindless binging out for more intensive activities. As OP says, rest does not have to be relaxed. It doesn’t have to be solitary, although it can be. The things I do (and what they bring me) are: board gaming (social), tennis (social, competition, exercise), running (solitary, calming, exercise), woodworking (solitary, satisfaction), Age of Empires II (competition), and piano (solitary, creative). It seems a lot when I write it down, but I still have a fair amount of downtime.
andai 5y ago
Go to the sauna, get a massage, or float in a warm salt water tank for an hour.
- kvgr 5y ago
  Sauna is great, no phone and temperature shocks are great for me to calm down the brain.
- chaoz_ 5y ago
  Is that why Finland is happiest country in the world?
0x008 5y ago
I just go for walks without taking my phone with me. Works alright.
- tinyhouse 5y ago
  Same. But my brain is consistently thinking about stuff. I wonder if it's still rest?
  - 0x008 5y ago
    If you do not chase the thoughts or try to actively think it should stop sometimes and not think all the time. If I understand the article correct then rest is not about “not thinking”. Rest can also be about engagement (for example sports or a making music). Just using different parts of your brain which are usually not directly used for work. If it never stops thinking try meditation practice, it will help after a couple times already (for me at least). Also sometimes it can be good to “reset” the brain by going into the wilderness or a retreat or have a day nap.
  - mrweasel 5y ago
    That's why I go for walks. I believe it frees up time for the brain to think through stuff without getting interrupted. Sure it might be a series of incohernt throughs and ideas, but that's fine, now they've been processed and the mind can relax.
    - jimpix45 5y ago
      I also like doing this and I'll try to focus on what I'm seeing during my walk which helps my brain not to wander worrying about work or other stressors but it allows me to be in the moment.
treme 5y ago
Non-Sleep Deep Rest (NSDR): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL02HRFk2vo& https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL02HRFk2vo& Yoga Nidra version https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=yoga+nidra+20+min https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=yoga+nidra+20+m... try either, and see how you feel compared to your usual rest methods, gl
jasfi 5y ago
Make it a goal for a specific day. Turn off all your devices, except for your phone (if you really have to be contactable or check something).
- mlac 5y ago
  I’m taking this to the extreme and purchasing a bluetooth home phone, so I can leave my phone in a room with the base station, and still pick up if someone calls / texts throughout the day. But no apps or anything. Gives me a way to get out of connection anxiety. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086PYS5VG?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp&th=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086PYS5VG?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&ref_...
tradesmanhelix 5y ago
I find that whatever I'm doing (binging a show, taking a walk, playing a video game, etc.) is much more restful when I'm fully present. For me, this means putting my phone and any other distracting technology away (or even turning it off) and just fully immersing myself in whatever I'm doing. Additionally, I find a bit of boredom is helpful in making an activity restful. For example, I love The Expanse TV show but sometimes it's very slow moving and I find myself wanting to stimulate my brain more than it's currently being stimulated by the show if that makes sense. However, I've found that if I embrace the boredom, resist the urge to take my eyes off of the TV, and just "float" in the moment so to speak, after about 15-20 mins the discomfort fades and I lose myself in the narrative. I find this "losing of oneself" in an activity or experience to be very restful and rejuvenating.
neltnerb 5y ago
I think it's the same as trying to form any other habit intentionally. Have a bed that you sleep in. Don't do anything in that bed other than sleep. If you are laying trying to sleep and find you cannot, get out of that bed and go elsewhere. This trains you to associate that bed with sleep and nothing else. It makes it so that when you go there in the future you have an ingrained habit that tells you it is time to sleep. Even reading in bed screwed it up for me. I think basically the same approach fits any other activity. If you want to get deeply in the flow for learning karate you have a dojo that you associate with it. You get way less distracted because you only do one thing there. I think sleep or laying still and meditating is about the most useful kind of rest for me, so I originally mostly talked about sleep. I think that the ability to get deeply into a task is generally strongly associated with environmental cues. Bowing before you start karate practice is a formal way to move into deep practice, even if you're practicing on your own.

marcoslozada 5y ago

Essential for entrepreneurs!

oedmarap 5y ago

One of the strategies that changed my sleep quality for the better is to stop taking coffee after 9 AM; after learning that caffeine has a half-life of around 6-7 hours[0], but a quarter-life of around 12 hours. If you have a cup of coffee at noon, a quarter of that caffeine can still be circulating around your brain at midnight. [0] https://youtu.be/k5BMGmf1ai0 https://youtu.be/k5BMGmf1ai0

glogla 5y ago
Pedantic HN style comment: doesn't half-life of 6 hours always imply "quarter-life" of 12 hours? :) (though I wouldn't have realized that without your comment, so thanks for that)
- christophilus 5y ago
  Depends on if it’s linear or a curve, right?
  - dkeidowb 5y ago
    Are there any examples of this? If its half-life is 6 hours, then after six hours half of the caffeine is still there, and we know caffeine has a half life of 6 hours. I don't know of any molecules with a non-linear half-life but I might be completely wrong
    - wfn 5y ago
      There's a whole area for this - pharmacokinetics. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_half-life#Rate_equations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_half-life#Rate_equa... for examples of e.g. first order models (exponential elimination rate, etc.) It has to do with protein binding dynamics among other factors I have no idea about. Remember that you are dealing with biological systems. Some of these processes to do with elimination and clearance are very much non-linear and are modelled with diff equations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physiologically_based_pharmacokinetic_modelling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physiologically_based_pharmaco...

MrJagil 5y ago

Good timing, I’ve been meaing to ask HN: what’s the best book on “sleep”?

i_love_limes 5y ago
This is a very popular and quite detailed pop science book on sleep written by a prof of neuroscience: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34466963-why-we-sleep https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34466963-why-we-sleep
- nojs 5y ago
  Note that this book tells you all about why we sleep, and gives you a lot of scary stats, but almost nothing practical about how to sleep better. If you already know sleep is important and want actionable advice, this book won’t help.
  - helpfulmandrill 5y ago
    The actionable advice for me was just "you have permission to sleep 8 hours, it isn't a waste of your life. No animal escapes the need to sleep, and thinking you can 'game the system' by robbing yourself of sleep night after night is the height of arrogance." I never had any problem sleeping, I just wouldn't let myself do it enough.
  - kmtrowbr 5y ago
    This is not true -- he does give good advice, it's just that it can be summarized in a single page. In fact the last page of the book has his 12 tips. They are widely shared across the internet -- here is one such place: https://fastlifehacks.com/matthew-walker-12-tips-for-good-sleep/ https://fastlifehacks.com/matthew-walker-12-tips-for-good-sl... So the book is mostly documenting his research into the negative effects of a lack of sleep. Totally worthy and interesting. But the great thing for YOU is that you don't need to read the book. Just those 12 tips. I'm 41. Over the years I have tried lots of ways to sleep well: various herbs, pills, etc. Ultimately I found, for me, there's no way to hack it. Good sleep is a part of lifestyle. Matthew Walker says the most important thing is routine: now I get in bed at 9:30pm, I read for an hour, I fall asleep around 11pm, I wake up at 6:55, etc. Almost every day, I allow some flex on the weekend. And a party is a party, I give myself a freebie on those (sadly increasingly rare) occasions. You must get reasonable daily exercise. You can't drink a lot of alcohol and expect to sleep well. Don't bring your devices into the bedroom, read a paper book. Try to get cozy at night. Chamomile tea is wonderful. Look into sleep masks as I found as I got older I became more sensitive to light & a sleep mask helps. Spend some money on your bedroom: a good mattress, fan, blinds, the right temperature, etc. It totally works! I sleep fantastic these days! Best of luck to you in turn.

sdevonoes 5y ago

> A 20-minute nap provides an energy boost comparable with a cup of strong coffee (without the later crash). This is not true for me. If I get a 20-minute nap in the middle of the day, I wake up wasted. It takes around another 20 minutes for me to get really awaken.

Juliate 5y ago
Been there. If you haven't do so already, perhaps you could try to experiment within +/- 5/10 minutes, to see where you sleep cycle hits better. It can make a whole lot of a difference.
hvgk 5y ago
Same trouble here. I find it’s better to get up and go for a 20 minute walk instead. That pulls all the right strings in my brain.
- xwdv 5y ago
  20 minutes is too long. You can get similar benefits by performing a few minutes of depth jumps to shock the central nervous system.
  - formerly_proven 5y ago
    I agree - don't talk a walk, it's an unnecessary hit on your productivity. But, depth jumps require you to get up, which again seems unnecessary to me if you can just taser the CNS directly to wake it up.
    - flerchin 5y ago
      Like an actual taser?
      - probotect0r 5y ago
        No, that would require moving your arm, which seems unnecessary. A figurative one will have to suffice \s

helpfulmandrill 5y ago

So we've got to optimize rest now? I'm so tired of this world.

unethical_ban 5y ago
We always have. This article is for the person who doesn't understand, or hasn't implemented, good work/rest balance.
leobg 5y ago
Haha. I said the same thing to Tim Ferriss in 2010 when he talked about “hacking” meditation. He did not take that well.
- mrweasel 5y ago
  That is hilarious. Ferriss is an interesting guy, but there's something funky going on when you're trying to "hack" century old concept. It's basically Schwarzenegger telling you to sleep faster.
rocketpastsix 5y ago
Unfortunately, yea we do. Now that more people are working from home the lines between work and not work are incredibly blurred. Add the increased connectivity we all have (email/slack/teams/etc on phones, laptops as work computers), it is essential we build good and meaningful habits of rest.
glial 5y ago
Relevant recent post from the always delightful Convivial Society: https://theconvivialsociety.substack.com/p/you-cant-optimize-for-rest https://theconvivialsociety.substack.com/p/you-cant-optimize... Takeaway: There are two key points. First, our exhaustion—in its various material and immaterial dimensions—is a consequence of the part we play in a techno-social milieu whose rhythms, scale, pace, and demands are not conducive to our well-being, to say nothing of the well-being of other creatures and the planet we share. Second, the remedies to which we often turn may themselves be counterproductive because their function is not to alter the larger system which has yielded a state of chronic exhaustion but rather to keep us functioning within it. Moreover, not only do the remedies fail to address the root of the problem, but there’s also a tendency to carry into our efforts to find rest the very same spirit which animates the system that left us tired and burnt out. Rest takes on the character of a project to be completed or an experience to be consumed. In neither case do we ultimately find any sort of meaningful and enduring relief or renewal.

2-718-281-828 5y ago

Sorry, but this is one of those articles where I don't care about the content but only about the discussion here.

shoto_io 5y ago
no need to be sorry about :) I always jump to the discussions first before reading the article.
- 2-718-281-828 5y ago
  I mean I tried reading it but it was so shallow an meandering - couldn't bear it
  - kodisha 5y ago
    My first year at HN - 95% articles, 5% comments 10+ years later - 95% comments, 5% reading articles themselves.
jader201 5y ago
I almost always prefer reading discussion of a topic from many people, vs. a monologue of one person’s opinion. That’s the way I almost always use HN, for better or worse.

curtson 5y ago

This is actually a great read that helps me understand and appreciate the importance of rest.

machiaweliczny 5y ago

I was on the weeding and got super tired once so I wanted to take nap. Couldn't really nap (I can't) but just relaxed body and tried to not think about anything for 20 minutes. I felt after that like after whole night good of sleep. Was very surprised that it worked.

themodelplumber 5y ago
That's a great result. Sometimes I think resting as "waiting while doing nothing" is good enough if it simply keeps one from working during the bottom of a local ultradian pattern. Coming back up out of that pattern by itself should naturally feel better.
randcraw 5y ago
How different is that from alpha meditation, where you free yourself from all thoughts, thereby entering a pre-sleep state of mind?

doreal 5y ago

One of my favorite essay is Adorno's "Free Time" in The Culture Industry [0]. When someone talks of work and rest as opposite, I always think of this quote: >I have no hobby. Not that I am the kind of workaholic, who is incapable of doing anything with his time but applying himself industriously to the required task. But, as far as my activities beyond the bounds of my recognized profession are concerned, I take them all, without exception, very seriously. Free Time and Rest are actually what makes us intelligent and creative. Work is experienced within its own constraint while free time let us explore and make fortunate mistakes. [0]: http://xenopraxis.net/readings/adorno_freetime.pdf http://xenopraxis.net/readings/adorno_freetime.pdf

bobthechef 5y ago

Josef Pieper[0] has written about leisure at length. What we call "rest" today is largely either idleness or recreation and something meant only to "recharge us" so that we can continue to work. But this is ass-backwards and not leisure. Leisure is what we work for and this was reflected, among other things, in the medieval culture of religious feasts. Our modern culture is a work-centric culture, but the middle ages were more of a leisure-centric culture. To better understand what leisure is, Pieper points to the etymological roots of words like "school" (from the Greek word for "leisure") and points to the distinction between the liberal arts and the servile arts (the former are superior to the latter and what the latter exist to enable). By definition, work is for the sake of something; you don't work for work's sake. Our culture either worships work for its own sake (an absurdity and largely a neurotic distraction from our own nihilism) or it terminates with a preoccupation with consumption and indulgence of various appetites. A culture frustrated by a false materialistic/mechanistic anthropology will produce this kind of vulgar ethos. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/767958.Leisure https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/767958.Leisure

mattgreenrocks 5y ago
This is one of the few books I re-read on a yearly basis. It is convicting.

justinzollars 5y ago

Best advice for quality of sleep: Stop drinking.

BareNakedCoder 5y ago
Best advice for quantity of sleep: don't stop drinking :)
- drclau 5y ago
  Rather, be more selective about what you drink, and when. :) Typically, you want to avoid even water some time before going to sleep, such that you won’t wake up to go to the bathroom.

dec0dedab0de 5y ago

One thing that really helps me rest better is sleeping on my back. It's more difficult to fall asleep that way, but the sleep I get seems to count more. I dont know why, but it does. I've been doing it since I was a kid, so it's gotten easier, but It's still a struggle to not roll over a few times a week.

WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
Looks like you’re my opposite number or something. I cannot become sleepy unless I’m on my back, but then to actually sleep, I need to turn over.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

l33tbro 5y ago

Honestly just take magnesium before bed and thank me later. 150mg should do it.

pps 5y ago
I'm on 200mg of magnesium taurate. Magnesium l-threonate years ago when the hype for it started. Absolutely no difference in anything. Also taking l-theanine + apigenin (mix that Andrew Huberman recommends) - same effect. But for people with not-the-best diet magnesium is definitely beneficial for health so it's good to take it anyway.
- l33tbro 5y ago
  Might it be a biochemistry thing rather than diet? I eat very few processed carbs and sugars and enjoy deep, restful sleep with most off-the shelf magnesium. L-theanine is fantastic too with my morning coffee. Alertness without the jitters.

jordanmorgan10 5y ago

I guess I missed the most important step which probably was don’t have three kids under 7.