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> I feel like removable SD card is a tech person solution but... As an older person, I find this observation very interesting. Today, I would consider people

> I feel like removable SD card is a tech person solution but... As an older person, I find this observation very interesting. Today, I would consider people in general to be much more technically knowledgeable compared to people 20+ years ago. And yet, 20 years ago, removable storage was quite common, and probably expected of most devices.

duxup 5y ago
You can be older and a tech person, I'm older ;) People are more capable but security like this needs to just be a part of the usual workflow or problems will continue to occur. Moving files around on a device, extra steps, just doesn't work for the masses.
- Teknoman117 5y ago
  I'm young-ish, but my general observation has been that my peers forget it was our grandparents and great grandparents that invented computers in the first place. Admittedly, the technological world is nearly impossible to avoid exposure to these days, where it was entirely optional (or downright prohibitive) to be involved with in the past. So in general, thank you older people for creating them, I have a lot of fun with them.
KineticLensman 5y ago
> Today, I would consider people in general to be much more technically knowledgeable compared to people 20+ years ago Very few people know how apps actually store files on a mobile device and as people increasingly use phones / tablets instead of PCs their knowledge of PC file systems reduces. So for many people, copying photos from a phone (or cloud backup) to a computer could be quite a challenge.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Sounds like a design issue, no? If Apple implemented it, they'd call the feature "Secure Liferaft" or something equally silly, but I have no doubt in my mind that they could engineer a proper solution for it. Today's users go out of their way to hide files and folders, so why not give them a chance to do so the right way? The technology is there, all you need is a little marketing pizzazz and a 30 second ad spot with Billie Eilish in the background.
  - xore 5y ago
    In fact, Google already implemented a way to hide files: it's called "secure folder" in Files and "locked folder" in Photos. BTW IDK why there are two names for the same concept
rodolphoarruda 5y ago
The majority of young people I know (in Brazil) doesn't know the concept of "file". So adding/keeping files in SD Cards is a task that requires some explanation. Disclaimer: I'm also an older person.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  It is an easy concept that was trivial for 10 year olds to learn a few years ago. Abstracting it away had a real cost in my opinion.
Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
Do not confuse the ability to use a phone or laptop with technical knowledge. People know how to use apps, but all the technical stuff is abstracted away. I'm pretty technical (As is nearly everyone on HN), and I have no idea where my photos are stored on my Android's file system. I have no idea where the APKs are for all my installed apps, or where their saved data sits.
- kroltan 5y ago
  But if _everything_ is always saved on the card, then you don't need the technical knowledge. Removing the card would leave the phone in a "factory clean" condition.
  - tobyjsullivan 5y ago
    If everything is on the SD card (as in: it won't work w/o the card inserted), then it will have to come with a card pre-installed. In that case, the average user won't even realize there's a removable card. It's turtles all the way down.
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      Well, all the user data, like pictures could be placed on the sd by default.
      - FalconSensei 5y ago
        But if the phone doesn't come with a card pre-installed, people are going to complain that it doesn't work, or that they didn't know they had to purchase a card. Unless it comes with a card, but the card is not inserted, so the user has to do it before booting up the phone
        hutzlibu 5y ago
        Or, provide a simple and clear way, to move all the user data to the card, first time it is inserted.
dolni 5y ago
I wouldn't say that. I had an 11 year old ask me what "right-click" was the other day. Yes, it sounds insane and it absolutely is. I blame the public school system. They know only what they're exposed to, and no more. Most devices don't have SD cards these days.
- KptMarchewa 5y ago
  Why didn't you expose them to that?
  - dolni 5y ago
    Well, first of all it's not my kid. Second of all, I did. That's why I was asked what right-click was.

duxup 5y ago

You can be older and a tech person, I'm older ;) People are more capable but security like this needs to just be a part of the usual workflow or problems will continue to occur. Moving files around on a device, extra steps, just doesn't work for the masses.

Teknoman117 5y ago
I'm young-ish, but my general observation has been that my peers forget it was our grandparents and great grandparents that invented computers in the first place. Admittedly, the technological world is nearly impossible to avoid exposure to these days, where it was entirely optional (or downright prohibitive) to be involved with in the past. So in general, thank you older people for creating them, I have a lot of fun with them.

KineticLensman 5y ago

> Today, I would consider people in general to be much more technically knowledgeable compared to people 20+ years ago Very few people know how apps actually store files on a mobile device and as people increasingly use phones / tablets instead of PCs their knowledge of PC file systems reduces. So for many people, copying photos from a phone (or cloud backup) to a computer could be quite a challenge.

smoldesu 5y ago
Sounds like a design issue, no? If Apple implemented it, they'd call the feature "Secure Liferaft" or something equally silly, but I have no doubt in my mind that they could engineer a proper solution for it. Today's users go out of their way to hide files and folders, so why not give them a chance to do so the right way? The technology is there, all you need is a little marketing pizzazz and a 30 second ad spot with Billie Eilish in the background.
- xore 5y ago
  In fact, Google already implemented a way to hide files: it's called "secure folder" in Files and "locked folder" in Photos. BTW IDK why there are two names for the same concept

rodolphoarruda 5y ago

The majority of young people I know (in Brazil) doesn't know the concept of "file". So adding/keeping files in SD Cards is a task that requires some explanation. Disclaimer: I'm also an older person.

raxxorrax 5y ago
It is an easy concept that was trivial for 10 year olds to learn a few years ago. Abstracting it away had a real cost in my opinion.

Sohcahtoa82 5y ago

Do not confuse the ability to use a phone or laptop with technical knowledge. People know how to use apps, but all the technical stuff is abstracted away. I'm pretty technical (As is nearly everyone on HN), and I have no idea where my photos are stored on my Android's file system. I have no idea where the APKs are for all my installed apps, or where their saved data sits.

kroltan 5y ago
But if _everything_ is always saved on the card, then you don't need the technical knowledge. Removing the card would leave the phone in a "factory clean" condition.
- tobyjsullivan 5y ago
  If everything is on the SD card (as in: it won't work w/o the card inserted), then it will have to come with a card pre-installed. In that case, the average user won't even realize there's a removable card. It's turtles all the way down.
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    Well, all the user data, like pictures could be placed on the sd by default.
    - FalconSensei 5y ago
      But if the phone doesn't come with a card pre-installed, people are going to complain that it doesn't work, or that they didn't know they had to purchase a card. Unless it comes with a card, but the card is not inserted, so the user has to do it before booting up the phone
      - hutzlibu 5y ago
        Or, provide a simple and clear way, to move all the user data to the card, first time it is inserted.

dolni 5y ago

I wouldn't say that. I had an 11 year old ask me what "right-click" was the other day. Yes, it sounds insane and it absolutely is. I blame the public school system. They know only what they're exposed to, and no more. Most devices don't have SD cards these days.

KptMarchewa 5y ago
Why didn't you expose them to that?
- dolni 5y ago
  Well, first of all it's not my kid. Second of all, I did. That's why I was asked what right-click was.