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I'm sick of people, so I'm not going to read the inevitable comments that are going to come. Look, face it, some people like taking nude photos of themselves an

I'm sick of people, so I'm not going to read the inevitable comments that are going to come. Look, face it, some people like taking nude photos of themselves and they like sharing them with their partners. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. It's not their fault if something like this happens. People should be able to feel secure in the tech that they use, in the companies that they entrust their information with. It's a fuckload of bullshit victim blaming and I see it every time the topic comes up. I'm sick of it.

INTPenis 5y ago
It's definitely the fault of some individual related to the service. BUT, you must be pretty stupid to send a device away that contains sensitive information. And unfortunately, a lot of people in society don't expect this type of intrusion by a company they trust. But they should. And I don't think you can blame Google for any of this.
- imbnwa 5y ago
  > BUT, you must be pretty stupid to send a device away that contains sensitive information. Irrelevant
  - INTPenis 5y ago
    It is relevant because there's a massive deficit in basic infosec among the populations of the world. Why keep blaming big corporations when we need to get smarter ourselves?
    - ska 5y ago
      > Why keep blaming big corporations when we need to get smarter ourselves? Why do we pretend that a practical answer to anything is "well people should stop behaving like people" ? Systems should be designed to work with people as they actually behave, not an idealized version.
    - kelnos 5y ago
      Once you start throwing around terms like "basic infosec", I think you need to recognize that the vast majority of people in the world won't even know what that term means. And shouldn't have to. It's up to us (the more technically-minded people) to protect them by helping to drive change, both in legislation, and technical measures to make it so people don't need to trust these big corporations. That's our failure, though I certainly recognize that this is a difficult thing to do.
    - lliamander 5y ago
      Why not both? Blame the corporations, sue the heck out of them, but then also make good infosec more widespread.
throwaway81523 5y ago
Yeah this is yet another reason to want phones to have removable storage (micro sd card). So private photos can go onto the card instead of built-in storage, and you can remove the card if you have to send in the phone. I don't take nudes but I tend to use my phone as an impromptu photocopier for stuff like bills and receipts, so the photos are full of private info such as account numbers. I worry about that sometimes. For photos that have to be treated with real security (typically the screen of recovery codes when enrolling a 2FA token), I use my old dedicated digital camera which has an SD card, no network connection, and never leaves my bedroom.
- duxup 5y ago
  I feel like removable SD card is a tech person solution but ... kinda doesn't solve it for a lot of folks. Most folks are just going to take nudes and not strategize much and expect them to remain private as part of the typical photo taking and sharing workflow.
  - silon42 5y ago
    I've seen Android now has Safe Folder with extra pin (haven't looked too deep). But (short) pin probably isn't enough, because that means the key is still on the phone.. I'd want an extra password.
  - slantyyz 5y ago
    > I feel like removable SD card is a tech person solution but... As an older person, I find this observation very interesting. Today, I would consider people in general to be much more technically knowledgeable compared to people 20+ years ago. And yet, 20 years ago, removable storage was quite common, and probably expected of most devices.
    - duxup 5y ago
      You can be older and a tech person, I'm older ;) People are more capable but security like this needs to just be a part of the usual workflow or problems will continue to occur. Moving files around on a device, extra steps, just doesn't work for the masses.
deleted 5y ago
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stinos 5y ago
People should be able to feel secure in the tech that they use, in the companies that they entrust their information with. I can never tell whether I'm paranoid, or worried for good reasons, but cases like these + mass leaks which happen occasionally are basically the reason why I don't have this secure feeling at all for anything which isn't on an offline device which is in my hands or device-side encypted then put online (but to a lesser extent). And I'm afraid nothing is ever going to be able to fix that feeling anymore, it just seems to late for that, and I feel like people who do feel secure lost touch with reality somewhat.
- duxup 5y ago
  You don't feel secure for GOOD reason. Still shouldn't have to feel that way.
- Enginerrrd 5y ago
  I still get that feeling for the most part with open source self-hosted stuff and devices running as open as possible software. Could someone hack my up-to-date linux server behind my VPN? Yeah. But it feels a lot less likely than any other device. If it's not an open source OS with a good track record, I feel like every key stroke, swipe, or picture is spied on. On devices I trust less, like my android phone, I feel better than default (but not perfectly comfortable) about open source encryption software and the stuff stored there.
ccn0p 5y ago
>> I see it every time the topic comes up I hear you, and agree wholeheartedly that there is "absolutely nothing wrong with this", but maybe if the topic keeps coming up, people should have less trust in the companies (and their respective flawed human supply chains) that keep our information.... and act accordingly. Unfortunately that's easier said than done these days.
- eloisius 5y ago
  Sure, but you probably wouldn’t ever hear someone say “maybe you should have had less trust” if Google employees snooped on your Drive account to steal financial records or something like that to use against you. Why do we tend to treat people like they’re asking for it when their nudes get compromised?
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    Why do we tend to treat people like they’re asking for it when their nudes get compromised? Because nudity is akin to sex and sexual ways, which are taboo in many societies. Upstanding citizens do not have nudes, in general. Especially women or nudes hinting at same-sex romance. It isn't right, but it is. Edit: I'm not saying I agree with this. But it doesn't take much to see folks putting others down for nudity. YMMV depending on where you live in the US. There is a reason most politicians (in the US) wouldn't get caught with nudes and I'm guessing that in some areas of the world, it would be even more detrimental to your life. It is the same line of thinking that punishes women for being "sluts" but are OK with men having a series of one night stands.
    - xxpor 5y ago
      Is the second paragraph about society's expectations or reality?
      - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
        I'm merely saying that I don't agree with the assessment, but it is how societal expectations play out in reality.
bigyellow 5y ago
> Look, face it, some people like taking nude photos of themselves and they like sharing them with their partners. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. It doesn't have to be "wrong" for it to be stupid, and trusting your private life to a device you literally do not own is. This isn't victim blaming, this is recognizing the fallacious logic that most people have when approaching this subject. Call it tech illiteracy if you want to be nice, but I'll just call it "dumb".
- hef19898 5y ago
  Well, previously it was digital cameras and your PC. Smart phones replaced both for a lot of people.
- standardUser 5y ago
  I imagine a lot of people sharing nude photos don't especially mind if they become public (I personally don't, I've had many partners who don't fear this). So they aren't "dumb" for taking a risk they are comfortable with. Nor are they dumb to expect the criminals to pay if they do become a victim. Both things can be true without anyone needing to be "dumb" as you seem so desperate to assume.
  - bigyellow 5y ago
    > So they aren't "dumb" for taking a risk they are comfortable with. They are dumb, precisely because the risk is unquantifiable to them until realized, then it's too late to act.
JohnFen 5y ago
Agreed. I think the mistake here wasn't the nudes, it was sending in the phone without wiping it first. Never trust anyone with your phone.
- Johnny555 5y ago
  That's not always an option -- my last android phone died with a reboot loop. It was several years old so I opted to discard and replace it (after opening it up and snapping the main circuit board in half), but if it was newer and I wanted warranty service, I'd have no choice but to send it in for repair, unwiped. In theory, device encryption would protect my data unless the service center has some way around it.
  - ghoward 5y ago
    > That's not always an option -- my last android phone died with a reboot loop. You're not wrong, but for future reference, there is a way to stop such a reboot loop; I did it just yesterday with my wife's phone. (Of course, it was a Pixel, so it might not be on every phone.) You do it by holding power and down volume until it says "Command not found", then you hold power and volume up until you get a menu. One of the items should be "Power off". Another one is "Factory reset" or something like it. Once my wife's phone was off, I left it off for a couple of hours to let it cool. Then I booted it again, and all was well. We're still getting her a new phone though.
    - Johnny555 5y ago
      I spent days going through every blog post I could find for tips on how to fix it, including booting to recovery mode -- it would reboot as I scrolled through the recovery menu and even when I got as far as trying to do the factory reset, it would reboot before it even started the reset. I let it reboot itself until it ran out of battery and waited a day after that to let it completely drain. Even tried putting it in the freezer.
      - ghoward 5y ago
Johnny555 5y ago
I agree completely that you should be able to take nude photos of yourself, but I still wouldn't use a phone to do it -- my phone's pictures get backed up to the cloud automatically, and even if they didn't, the phone provider is probably the least likely risk that I face. I am probably more at risk from some rogue app that I installed on my phone. When I have done this in the past, we did it the old fashioned way -- took the pics with a non-connected digital camera, printed the ones we liked, then kept the rest on an encrypted USB drive. Even this has the risk of leaking your photos to the cloud if your computer is set up for cloud backup.
- lliamander 5y ago
  It seems people are mad you took reasonable precautions.
  - Johnny555 5y ago
    Probably got too close to "victim blaming" for the crowd here. Being able to trust your hardware/software is important, but also knowing why you can't (for now, maybe not ever) trust your hardware is also important - maybe more important.
IncRnd 5y ago
Of course the fault lies with the person who posted the images online. That person also violated state and federal laws. There is no doubt about that. However, most people wouldn't knowingly leave nude images of their spouse on the car's back seat when getting the car serviced. In many ways this is similar. Edit: For people who think I'm blaming the victim, I am not. I thought that was clear, since I blamed the thief/poster of the photos! This is in many ways similar to leaving photos in a car. That is not to say that the person with the phone is at fault, but that this also happens in many other cases. If this happened to me (which it has), I'd do something else instead of sending my phone for repair by an unknown person.
- xxpor 5y ago
  The post said the phone wouldn't turn on, so how were they supposed to clean it up before sending it out? Granted, this may be the best reason I've heard yet for why removing the option to have an SD card is bad...
  - IncRnd 5y ago
    > The post said the phone wouldn't turn on, so how were they supposed to clean it up before sending it out? I think you are asking the wrong question. It's more useful to ask how to initially safeguard the pictures instead of how to remove them after something broke. If the pictures were encrypted, then it doesn't matter who has possession of the phone.
- notreallyserio 5y ago
  I don't know how broken the phone was, but it's possible for a phone to be so damaged that you can't wipe it's contents prior to sending it in for service. I love car analogies (who doesn't), I think this is more like your car being on fire and asking a firefighter to put it out, while hoping they won't find and share any documents they find in the back seat.
  - maccolgan 5y ago
    So what do you do when your car is on fire but there's also nude photos in the back seat? Asking genuinely, don't know what would be the best thing to do...
wpietri 5y ago
Thanks for posting this. I get why people do the victim-blaming thing; it lets them feel smart and superior, two feelings I have been known to enjoy. But it's a fundamentally bad way to approach analyzing safety issues. For those who really want to dig in on the topic, I strongly recommend Dekker's "A Field Guide to Understanding 'Human Error'": https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Q8XCSFI/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i0 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Q8XCSFI/ref=dbs_a_def_r... It's nominally about examining airplane crashes. But he breaks down into great detail why the default analytical model is entirely inappropriate in ways that makes real safety improvement impossible. And it's the same set of analytical mistakes you see in a lot of blame-related behavior.
- ska 5y ago
  > it lets them feel smart and superior, While, ironically, simultaneously demonstrating the opposite.
- this_steve_j 5y ago
  I finally made a HN account, after many years of lurking, to show appreciation for wpietri's comment. Sidney Dekker transformed the way I think about techno-human systems and cybersecurity, and so much more than that. I don't know when I was introduced to his work on safety, but it may have been through this site, and it has changed my life and career for the better. I'm incredibly happy every day to see not only thoughtful comments on HN, but also learn about entirely new viewpoints through which I can grasp the day's events.
- nickff 5y ago
  It's not just about feeling smart and superior, it also helps them feel invulnerable. People victim-blame smokers who get lung cancer because they don't want to think about the chance they might get it too.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    Smoking a pack a day for 30 years is not really the same thing as making a momentary error in judgement. Yes, non-smokers can get lung cancer, too. But at a far lower frequency.
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vadfa 5y ago
>Look, face it, some people like taking nude photos of themselves and they like sharing them with their partners. Look, face it, actions have consequences.
- na85 5y ago
  Hopefully Google suffers some consequences. My money is on nope, however.
2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
Don't take digital photos that you don't want the world to see. I don't like seeing "don't victim blame" taken as gospel. Blame isn't a simple binary thing. Every time a company is hacked we don't line up to defend their shoddy security practices even though they are a victim.
- eldaisfish 5y ago
  This is a dangerous argument. There’s been a lot of public statements from the big tech firms about how data on phones is encrypted and that the devices are safe. Resorting to “do not do X if you don’t want Y to happen” is a cop out and demonstrates a fundamental failure of technology doing what it says on the box.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
    I've said in another comment that I am extremely interested to know the outcome of this since I am a Pixel owner. It is concerning but right now it's unverified.
  - seoulmetro 5y ago
    You're wrong. They say that when it's encrypted it will remain secure. They don't say that when it's not encrypted it will remain secure. Nudes are very rarely encrypted.
- giaour 5y ago
  This is a really bleak way to look at digital devices and their role in the world. Should you only write things you want the world to read on a computer, and for everything else, just use pen and paper?
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
    It is bleak but it's the reality that we have, not the reality we wish that we had.
    - 5y ago
aulin 5y ago
Amazing how most of the replies of your comment and the other comments too are still victim blaming, not for taking or sharing the nudes but for being so naive to send a phone unwiped. There's no excuse for violating and exposing someone's private life like this, being tech unsavvy (or you know, not being able to wipe a dead phone) is absolutely not an excuse to shift the blame to the victim. We get it you're good, you're smart, you wouldn't have done such a stupid mistake... congrats, but honestly, who cares.
- q1w2 5y ago
  This feels like a limitation of our ability to have constructive conversations online. Someone can be less than perfect and that can cause them to be victimized. We should be able to talk about both aspects of this story, perhaps independently. Some people want to discuss how the offender should be punished, and other people want to discuss how we can behave to prevent being victimized ourselves. I don't think it's valid to argue that people discussing how to prevent victimization, are somehow "victim blaming".
  - dahfizz 5y ago
    Absolutely. "They deserved it for sending in an unwiped phone" is victim blaming. "If you need to send in your phone, you can do X and Y to protect yourself" is absolutely NOT victim blaming. I cannot wrap my mind around why people would have a problem with the second statement.
    - klyrs 5y ago
      > I cannot wrap my mind around why people would have a problem with the second statement. When the problem is that the phone was borked to the point that X and Y were not possible, it's tonedeaf at the very least.
      - lliamander 5y ago
        There's nothing tonedeaf about exploring how the situation can be avoided in the future. Obviously, the phone being borked is relevant, but in that case we need to ask what preemptive measures can be taken on a phone that isn't yet borked. It may be that the only answer right now is "don't keep nudes on your phone" then that's unfortunate and should be addressed.
Fatnino 5y ago
Let's move this into the physical world. Say I have a bedside table that needs repairs. I send it to a carpenter. If I am fool enough to leave my nude photos in the drawer then I should fully expect the carpenter to have seen them. I'm the fool, he's innocent. If, however, he takes those photos and sends them to a tabloid, now he's the asshole.
- FalconSensei 5y ago
  If the problem you are having is that the drawer is not opening, how are you going to remove them before the carpenter comes in to get it open? Or in the phone case: if the phone/screen dies, how can you do anything with it before sending to repair?
  - lliamander 5y ago
    Maybe stay with the carpenter and observe him so you can make sure the pictures are secure? Might seem weird, but if you explain to the person doing the work that you have sensitive data on the device they'd probably understand the precautions.
    - FalconSensei 5y ago
      It's hard to do that when you have to drop your phone at the counter and whoever gets it is not the actual person fixing it
      - seoulmetro 5y ago
        Well now you've found part of your problem.
      - lliamander 5y ago
        Of course it's not necessarily easy. But you might as well make the request. If you are in that situation and you're concerned about sensitive data being leaked, then it is an option.
JohnWhigham 5y ago
There's a difference between victim blaming and protecting oneself against the world. The sad reality is that systems in society don't always work the way they're supposed to, whether that be companies being egregiously unprofessional when working on user's devices, or police showing up to an armed burglary long after the events have transpired and lives were harmed/lost.
lliamander 5y ago
Some people no doubt engage in victim blaming, but I don't think that's what's generally going on here. For instance, I don't think anyone would disagree that the individuals that made those photos public should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The world contains bad actors, and we should be having conversations about what are the reasonable steps people should take to protect themselves. The fact that this happened, and that it could easily happen again, suggests that we should take additional care with sensitive data on our phones. Maybe an app for encrypting sensitive photos and that requires a password to access? Yes, people should feel safe in their tech. People should also feel safe in their homes, but most everyone still have locks, and many people additional layers of security.
Wowfunhappy 5y ago
Comments like that ruin threads for me too, but pre-empting them as you have just draws attention to the sewage, so I don't think it helps. Unless I missed something, I believe that you currently have the only top-level comment to mention victim blaming. There's one other, but it's dead, which means the HN "immune system" (as dang calls it) worked.
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
Well said, A basic consumer shouldn't be expected to be aware of OPSEC for repairing a broken phone(which in this case seems to be the reason for not wiping data as well). This also brings an important aspect of repairability, I've been paying for extended warranty and discount on battery replacement for years to an android manufacturer and when the time arrived(during lockdown) they wanted my device sent to the repair-center as there was no policy to send the parts to the consumer's place. Although I don't believe for a moment that Apple is pro-repair now, I hope them sending parts directly to the consumer would be followed by android manufacturers as well.

INTPenis 5y ago

It's definitely the fault of some individual related to the service. BUT, you must be pretty stupid to send a device away that contains sensitive information. And unfortunately, a lot of people in society don't expect this type of intrusion by a company they trust. But they should. And I don't think you can blame Google for any of this.

imbnwa 5y ago
> BUT, you must be pretty stupid to send a device away that contains sensitive information. Irrelevant
- INTPenis 5y ago
  It is relevant because there's a massive deficit in basic infosec among the populations of the world. Why keep blaming big corporations when we need to get smarter ourselves?
  - ska 5y ago
    > Why keep blaming big corporations when we need to get smarter ourselves? Why do we pretend that a practical answer to anything is "well people should stop behaving like people" ? Systems should be designed to work with people as they actually behave, not an idealized version.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    Once you start throwing around terms like "basic infosec", I think you need to recognize that the vast majority of people in the world won't even know what that term means. And shouldn't have to. It's up to us (the more technically-minded people) to protect them by helping to drive change, both in legislation, and technical measures to make it so people don't need to trust these big corporations. That's our failure, though I certainly recognize that this is a difficult thing to do.
  - lliamander 5y ago
    Why not both? Blame the corporations, sue the heck out of them, but then also make good infosec more widespread.

throwaway81523 5y ago

Yeah this is yet another reason to want phones to have removable storage (micro sd card). So private photos can go onto the card instead of built-in storage, and you can remove the card if you have to send in the phone. I don't take nudes but I tend to use my phone as an impromptu photocopier for stuff like bills and receipts, so the photos are full of private info such as account numbers. I worry about that sometimes. For photos that have to be treated with real security (typically the screen of recovery codes when enrolling a 2FA token), I use my old dedicated digital camera which has an SD card, no network connection, and never leaves my bedroom.

duxup 5y ago
I feel like removable SD card is a tech person solution but ... kinda doesn't solve it for a lot of folks. Most folks are just going to take nudes and not strategize much and expect them to remain private as part of the typical photo taking and sharing workflow.
- silon42 5y ago
  I've seen Android now has Safe Folder with extra pin (haven't looked too deep). But (short) pin probably isn't enough, because that means the key is still on the phone.. I'd want an extra password.
- slantyyz 5y ago
  > I feel like removable SD card is a tech person solution but... As an older person, I find this observation very interesting. Today, I would consider people in general to be much more technically knowledgeable compared to people 20+ years ago. And yet, 20 years ago, removable storage was quite common, and probably expected of most devices.
  - duxup 5y ago
    You can be older and a tech person, I'm older ;) People are more capable but security like this needs to just be a part of the usual workflow or problems will continue to occur. Moving files around on a device, extra steps, just doesn't work for the masses.

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stinos 5y ago

People should be able to feel secure in the tech that they use, in the companies that they entrust their information with. I can never tell whether I'm paranoid, or worried for good reasons, but cases like these + mass leaks which happen occasionally are basically the reason why I don't have this secure feeling at all for anything which isn't on an offline device which is in my hands or device-side encypted then put online (but to a lesser extent). And I'm afraid nothing is ever going to be able to fix that feeling anymore, it just seems to late for that, and I feel like people who do feel secure lost touch with reality somewhat.

duxup 5y ago
You don't feel secure for GOOD reason. Still shouldn't have to feel that way.
Enginerrrd 5y ago
I still get that feeling for the most part with open source self-hosted stuff and devices running as open as possible software. Could someone hack my up-to-date linux server behind my VPN? Yeah. But it feels a lot less likely than any other device. If it's not an open source OS with a good track record, I feel like every key stroke, swipe, or picture is spied on. On devices I trust less, like my android phone, I feel better than default (but not perfectly comfortable) about open source encryption software and the stuff stored there.

ccn0p 5y ago

>> I see it every time the topic comes up I hear you, and agree wholeheartedly that there is "absolutely nothing wrong with this", but maybe if the topic keeps coming up, people should have less trust in the companies (and their respective flawed human supply chains) that keep our information.... and act accordingly. Unfortunately that's easier said than done these days.

eloisius 5y ago
Sure, but you probably wouldn’t ever hear someone say “maybe you should have had less trust” if Google employees snooped on your Drive account to steal financial records or something like that to use against you. Why do we tend to treat people like they’re asking for it when their nudes get compromised?
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  Why do we tend to treat people like they’re asking for it when their nudes get compromised? Because nudity is akin to sex and sexual ways, which are taboo in many societies. Upstanding citizens do not have nudes, in general. Especially women or nudes hinting at same-sex romance. It isn't right, but it is. Edit: I'm not saying I agree with this. But it doesn't take much to see folks putting others down for nudity. YMMV depending on where you live in the US. There is a reason most politicians (in the US) wouldn't get caught with nudes and I'm guessing that in some areas of the world, it would be even more detrimental to your life. It is the same line of thinking that punishes women for being "sluts" but are OK with men having a series of one night stands.
  - xxpor 5y ago
    Is the second paragraph about society's expectations or reality?
    - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
      I'm merely saying that I don't agree with the assessment, but it is how societal expectations play out in reality.

bigyellow 5y ago

> Look, face it, some people like taking nude photos of themselves and they like sharing them with their partners. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. It doesn't have to be "wrong" for it to be stupid, and trusting your private life to a device you literally do not own is. This isn't victim blaming, this is recognizing the fallacious logic that most people have when approaching this subject. Call it tech illiteracy if you want to be nice, but I'll just call it "dumb".

hef19898 5y ago
Well, previously it was digital cameras and your PC. Smart phones replaced both for a lot of people.
standardUser 5y ago
I imagine a lot of people sharing nude photos don't especially mind if they become public (I personally don't, I've had many partners who don't fear this). So they aren't "dumb" for taking a risk they are comfortable with. Nor are they dumb to expect the criminals to pay if they do become a victim. Both things can be true without anyone needing to be "dumb" as you seem so desperate to assume.
- bigyellow 5y ago
  > So they aren't "dumb" for taking a risk they are comfortable with. They are dumb, precisely because the risk is unquantifiable to them until realized, then it's too late to act.

JohnFen 5y ago

Agreed. I think the mistake here wasn't the nudes, it was sending in the phone without wiping it first. Never trust anyone with your phone.

Johnny555 5y ago
That's not always an option -- my last android phone died with a reboot loop. It was several years old so I opted to discard and replace it (after opening it up and snapping the main circuit board in half), but if it was newer and I wanted warranty service, I'd have no choice but to send it in for repair, unwiped. In theory, device encryption would protect my data unless the service center has some way around it.
- ghoward 5y ago
  > That's not always an option -- my last android phone died with a reboot loop. You're not wrong, but for future reference, there is a way to stop such a reboot loop; I did it just yesterday with my wife's phone. (Of course, it was a Pixel, so it might not be on every phone.) You do it by holding power and down volume until it says "Command not found", then you hold power and volume up until you get a menu. One of the items should be "Power off". Another one is "Factory reset" or something like it. Once my wife's phone was off, I left it off for a couple of hours to let it cool. Then I booted it again, and all was well. We're still getting her a new phone though.
  - Johnny555 5y ago
    I spent days going through every blog post I could find for tips on how to fix it, including booting to recovery mode -- it would reboot as I scrolled through the recovery menu and even when I got as far as trying to do the factory reset, it would reboot before it even started the reset. I let it reboot itself until it ran out of battery and waited a day after that to let it completely drain. Even tried putting it in the freezer.
    - ghoward 5y ago

Johnny555 5y ago

I agree completely that you should be able to take nude photos of yourself, but I still wouldn't use a phone to do it -- my phone's pictures get backed up to the cloud automatically, and even if they didn't, the phone provider is probably the least likely risk that I face. I am probably more at risk from some rogue app that I installed on my phone. When I have done this in the past, we did it the old fashioned way -- took the pics with a non-connected digital camera, printed the ones we liked, then kept the rest on an encrypted USB drive. Even this has the risk of leaking your photos to the cloud if your computer is set up for cloud backup.

lliamander 5y ago
It seems people are mad you took reasonable precautions.
- Johnny555 5y ago
  Probably got too close to "victim blaming" for the crowd here. Being able to trust your hardware/software is important, but also knowing why you can't (for now, maybe not ever) trust your hardware is also important - maybe more important.

IncRnd 5y ago

Of course the fault lies with the person who posted the images online. That person also violated state and federal laws. There is no doubt about that. However, most people wouldn't knowingly leave nude images of their spouse on the car's back seat when getting the car serviced. In many ways this is similar. Edit: For people who think I'm blaming the victim, I am not. I thought that was clear, since I blamed the thief/poster of the photos! This is in many ways similar to leaving photos in a car. That is not to say that the person with the phone is at fault, but that this also happens in many other cases. If this happened to me (which it has), I'd do something else instead of sending my phone for repair by an unknown person.

xxpor 5y ago
The post said the phone wouldn't turn on, so how were they supposed to clean it up before sending it out? Granted, this may be the best reason I've heard yet for why removing the option to have an SD card is bad...
- IncRnd 5y ago
  > The post said the phone wouldn't turn on, so how were they supposed to clean it up before sending it out? I think you are asking the wrong question. It's more useful to ask how to initially safeguard the pictures instead of how to remove them after something broke. If the pictures were encrypted, then it doesn't matter who has possession of the phone.
notreallyserio 5y ago
I don't know how broken the phone was, but it's possible for a phone to be so damaged that you can't wipe it's contents prior to sending it in for service. I love car analogies (who doesn't), I think this is more like your car being on fire and asking a firefighter to put it out, while hoping they won't find and share any documents they find in the back seat.
- maccolgan 5y ago
  So what do you do when your car is on fire but there's also nude photos in the back seat? Asking genuinely, don't know what would be the best thing to do...

wpietri 5y ago

Thanks for posting this. I get why people do the victim-blaming thing; it lets them feel smart and superior, two feelings I have been known to enjoy. But it's a fundamentally bad way to approach analyzing safety issues. For those who really want to dig in on the topic, I strongly recommend Dekker's "A Field Guide to Understanding 'Human Error'": https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Q8XCSFI/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i0 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Q8XCSFI/ref=dbs_a_def_r... It's nominally about examining airplane crashes. But he breaks down into great detail why the default analytical model is entirely inappropriate in ways that makes real safety improvement impossible. And it's the same set of analytical mistakes you see in a lot of blame-related behavior.

ska 5y ago
> it lets them feel smart and superior, While, ironically, simultaneously demonstrating the opposite.
this_steve_j 5y ago
I finally made a HN account, after many years of lurking, to show appreciation for wpietri's comment. Sidney Dekker transformed the way I think about techno-human systems and cybersecurity, and so much more than that. I don't know when I was introduced to his work on safety, but it may have been through this site, and it has changed my life and career for the better. I'm incredibly happy every day to see not only thoughtful comments on HN, but also learn about entirely new viewpoints through which I can grasp the day's events.
nickff 5y ago
It's not just about feeling smart and superior, it also helps them feel invulnerable. People victim-blame smokers who get lung cancer because they don't want to think about the chance they might get it too.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  Smoking a pack a day for 30 years is not really the same thing as making a momentary error in judgement. Yes, non-smokers can get lung cancer, too. But at a far lower frequency.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

vadfa 5y ago

>Look, face it, some people like taking nude photos of themselves and they like sharing them with their partners. Look, face it, actions have consequences.

na85 5y ago
Hopefully Google suffers some consequences. My money is on nope, however.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

Don't take digital photos that you don't want the world to see. I don't like seeing "don't victim blame" taken as gospel. Blame isn't a simple binary thing. Every time a company is hacked we don't line up to defend their shoddy security practices even though they are a victim.

eldaisfish 5y ago
This is a dangerous argument. There’s been a lot of public statements from the big tech firms about how data on phones is encrypted and that the devices are safe. Resorting to “do not do X if you don’t want Y to happen” is a cop out and demonstrates a fundamental failure of technology doing what it says on the box.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
  I've said in another comment that I am extremely interested to know the outcome of this since I am a Pixel owner. It is concerning but right now it's unverified.
- seoulmetro 5y ago
  You're wrong. They say that when it's encrypted it will remain secure. They don't say that when it's not encrypted it will remain secure. Nudes are very rarely encrypted.
giaour 5y ago
This is a really bleak way to look at digital devices and their role in the world. Should you only write things you want the world to read on a computer, and for everything else, just use pen and paper?
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
  It is bleak but it's the reality that we have, not the reality we wish that we had.
  - 5y ago

aulin 5y ago

Amazing how most of the replies of your comment and the other comments too are still victim blaming, not for taking or sharing the nudes but for being so naive to send a phone unwiped. There's no excuse for violating and exposing someone's private life like this, being tech unsavvy (or you know, not being able to wipe a dead phone) is absolutely not an excuse to shift the blame to the victim. We get it you're good, you're smart, you wouldn't have done such a stupid mistake... congrats, but honestly, who cares.

q1w2 5y ago
This feels like a limitation of our ability to have constructive conversations online. Someone can be less than perfect and that can cause them to be victimized. We should be able to talk about both aspects of this story, perhaps independently. Some people want to discuss how the offender should be punished, and other people want to discuss how we can behave to prevent being victimized ourselves. I don't think it's valid to argue that people discussing how to prevent victimization, are somehow "victim blaming".
- dahfizz 5y ago
  Absolutely. "They deserved it for sending in an unwiped phone" is victim blaming. "If you need to send in your phone, you can do X and Y to protect yourself" is absolutely NOT victim blaming. I cannot wrap my mind around why people would have a problem with the second statement.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    > I cannot wrap my mind around why people would have a problem with the second statement. When the problem is that the phone was borked to the point that X and Y were not possible, it's tonedeaf at the very least.
    - lliamander 5y ago
      There's nothing tonedeaf about exploring how the situation can be avoided in the future. Obviously, the phone being borked is relevant, but in that case we need to ask what preemptive measures can be taken on a phone that isn't yet borked. It may be that the only answer right now is "don't keep nudes on your phone" then that's unfortunate and should be addressed.

Fatnino 5y ago

Let's move this into the physical world. Say I have a bedside table that needs repairs. I send it to a carpenter. If I am fool enough to leave my nude photos in the drawer then I should fully expect the carpenter to have seen them. I'm the fool, he's innocent. If, however, he takes those photos and sends them to a tabloid, now he's the asshole.

FalconSensei 5y ago
If the problem you are having is that the drawer is not opening, how are you going to remove them before the carpenter comes in to get it open? Or in the phone case: if the phone/screen dies, how can you do anything with it before sending to repair?
- lliamander 5y ago
  Maybe stay with the carpenter and observe him so you can make sure the pictures are secure? Might seem weird, but if you explain to the person doing the work that you have sensitive data on the device they'd probably understand the precautions.
  - FalconSensei 5y ago
    It's hard to do that when you have to drop your phone at the counter and whoever gets it is not the actual person fixing it
    - seoulmetro 5y ago
      Well now you've found part of your problem.
    - lliamander 5y ago
      Of course it's not necessarily easy. But you might as well make the request. If you are in that situation and you're concerned about sensitive data being leaked, then it is an option.

JohnWhigham 5y ago

There's a difference between victim blaming and protecting oneself against the world. The sad reality is that systems in society don't always work the way they're supposed to, whether that be companies being egregiously unprofessional when working on user's devices, or police showing up to an armed burglary long after the events have transpired and lives were harmed/lost.

lliamander 5y ago

Some people no doubt engage in victim blaming, but I don't think that's what's generally going on here. For instance, I don't think anyone would disagree that the individuals that made those photos public should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The world contains bad actors, and we should be having conversations about what are the reasonable steps people should take to protect themselves. The fact that this happened, and that it could easily happen again, suggests that we should take additional care with sensitive data on our phones. Maybe an app for encrypting sensitive photos and that requires a password to access? Yes, people should feel safe in their tech. People should also feel safe in their homes, but most everyone still have locks, and many people additional layers of security.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago

Comments like that ruin threads for me too, but pre-empting them as you have just draws attention to the sewage, so I don't think it helps. Unless I missed something, I believe that you currently have the only top-level comment to mention victim blaming. There's one other, but it's dead, which means the HN "immune system" (as dang calls it) worked.

Abishek_Muthian 5y ago

Well said, A basic consumer shouldn't be expected to be aware of OPSEC for repairing a broken phone(which in this case seems to be the reason for not wiping data as well). This also brings an important aspect of repairability, I've been paying for extended warranty and discount on battery replacement for years to an android manufacturer and when the time arrived(during lockdown) they wanted my device sent to the repair-center as there was no policy to send the parts to the consumer's place. Although I don't believe for a moment that Apple is pro-repair now, I hope them sending parts directly to the consumer would be followed by android manufacturers as well.