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AWS Graviton 3 Instances
- jfbaro 5y agoThis seems to be a good fit Lambda as well. Looking forward to seeing more information about the CHIP design and capabilities.
- aclelland 5y agoSo that's the c6g and c7g but x86 instances are still on c5. Will AWS ever release an x86 computing instance again or is this just a sign that x86 has reached peak performance on AWS?
- messe 5y agoThey did. A month ago. https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2021/10/amazon-ec2-c6i-instances/ https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2021/10/amazon-ec...
- aclelland 5y agoI missed this. Thanks!
- pella 5y ago(29 NOV 2021) "New – Amazon EC2 M6a Instances Powered By 3rd Gen AMD EPYC Processors" https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/new-amazon-ec2-m6a-instances-powered-by-3rd-gen-amd-epyc-processors/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/new-amazon-ec2-m6a-instance... "Up to 35 percent higher price performance per vCPU versus comparable M5a instances, up to 50 Gbps of networking speed, and up to 40 Gbps bandwidth of Amazon EBS, more than twice that of M5a instances." "Larger instance size with 48xlarge with up to 192 vCPUs and 768 GiB of memory, enabling you to consolidate more workloads on a single instance. M6a also offers Elastic Fabric Adapter (EFA) support for workloads that benefit from lower network latency and highly scalable inter-node communication, such as HPC and video processing." "Always-on memory encryption and support for new AVX2 instructions for accelerating encryption and decryption algorithms"
- aclelland 5y agoMissed this one too. Awesome, thanks.
- talawahtech 5y agoI was wondering how they were going to manage the fact that AMDs Zen3 based instances would likely be faster than Graviton2. Color me impressed. AWS' pace of innovation is blistering.
- Rafuino 5y agoAren't the Zen3 instances still faster than Graviton 3? DDR5 is interesting, and while lower power is nice, the customers don't benefit from that much, mostly AWS itself with its power bill. I haven't seen pricing yet, but assume AWS will price their own stuff lower to win customers and create further lock-in opportunities (and even take a loss like with Alexa).
- staticassertion 5y agoHow does Graviton create lock-in? It's ARM.
- jffry 5y agoI think the idea is by attracting new customers to EC2 via performance/price, and then enticing them to integrate with other harder-to-leave AWS services
- staticassertion 5y agoThat might make sense for Lambdas, but I don't see how that's the case with EC2, or how that's specific to Graviton vs x86 etc.
- justicezyx 5y agoWhat's the motivation behind this question? Or why do you think Amazon wants to create lockin for Graviton processors. Note that graviton represent a classic "disruptive technology" that is outside of the main stream market's "value network". I.e., it provides something that is valuable to marginal customers who are far from the primary revenue source of the larger market.
- Alex3917 5y agoHow long until we get T5g with Graviton3?
- shaicoleman 5y agoThey don't always update the T series instances for every generation, so I wouldn't hold my breath.
- mwcampbell 5y agoIf I'm not mistaken, they have updated the T series for every generation since the introduction of their Nitro virtualization.
- croddin 5y agoGraviton2 was announced at re:invent 2019 and t4g came out in September 2020 so my guess is we will see t5g instances by September 2022.
- ghshephard 5y agoSo - for those deeper into security - is this useful? "Graviton3 processors also include a new pointer authentication feature that is designed to improve security. Before return addresses are pushed on to the stack, they are first signed with a secret key and additional context information, including the current value of the stack pointer. When the signed addresses are popped off the stack, they are validated before being used. An exception is raised if the address is not valid, thereby blocking attacks that work by overwriting the stack contents with the address of harmful code. We are working with operating system and compiler developers to add additional support for this feature, so please get in touch if this is of interest to you"
- staticassertion 5y agoI've heard very promising things about pointer authentication.
- tyingq 5y agoIt would take the heat off for mitigating buffer overflow CVEs in a rushed way. There are many of those that give remote code execution, so typically a frenzied patching exercise. A little more time to do the patching in a more deliberate way would be nice.
- staticassertion 5y agoI think in some cases this would effectively mitigate a vulnerability entirely. If you require control over the return address you're basically shit out of luck. A buffer overflow at that point is going to have to target some other function pointer or data, which may not be feasible in a given function.
- ComputerGuru 5y agoThese slides should help: https://llvm.org/devmtg/2019-10/slides/McCall-Bougacha-arm64e.pdf https://llvm.org/devmtg/2019-10/slides/McCall-Bougacha-arm64...
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- haukem 5y agoDoes Graviton3 use the Neoverse V1? The Graviton2 used the Neoverse N1. The features listed here match the core: https://developer.arm.com/ip-products/processors/neoverse/neoverse-v1 https://developer.arm.com/ip-products/processors/neoverse/ne... The N2 misses the bfloat, but it could be that the ARM marketing named it differently: https://developer.arm.com/ip-products/processors/neoverse/neoverse-n2 https://developer.arm.com/ip-products/processors/neoverse/ne...
- dragontamer 5y agoN2 has BFloat16 instructions. EDIT: I probably should have a citation: https://developer.arm.com/documentation/PJDOC-466751330-18256/0000-03?_ga=2.265796748.243487855.1638295737-1927301140.1631220381 https://developer.arm.com/documentation/PJDOC-466751330-1825... Page 50 of 92 shows off BFCVTN, BFDOT, BFMMLA (matrix multiply and accumulate), BFCVT, and other BF16 instructions on the N2. I'd assume this Graviton 3 is a N2 core. But that's just me assuming.
- haukem 5y agoThanks for the document, so the ARM marketing just confused me. ;-) Yes N2 is more likely than V1. N2 has the better PPA ratio. Own CPU core is very unlikely as I am not aware of any rumors which we would have notice before. N2 also supports ARMv9 which is nice.
- qbasic_forever 5y agoWhere are Google and Azure with ARM instances? It's been nothing but crickets for years now... this is starting to get silly that their customers can't at least start getting workloads on a different architecture, nevermind get better performance per dollar, etc. too. The silence is deafening.
- baybal2 5y ago> Where are Google and Azure with ARM instances? I think they are bound by long term supply agreements with Intel. They will just bargain for better prices with Intel. Not an easy task it will be, given that Intel is capacity jammed.
- lostmsu 5y agoFunnily, IBM offers ARM instances. Even on free tier.
- tyingq 5y agoSame for Oracle.
- lostmsu 5y agoI am sorry, I was wrong. I actually meant Oracle. I don't see any ARM options in IBM cloud.
- Uehreka 5y agoDoesn’t IBM also offer a bunch of weird architectures that can’t be found anywhere else? One day I was looking up some old PowerPC and s390 architectures that are supported by a lot of docker images, trying to figure out why anyone would want them, and it appears the answer is that they’re used in IBM mainframes.
- oblio 5y agoIBM had computer architectures before there were computer architectures, so it's not exactly a fair comparison :-p
- ksec 5y ago>Graviton3 will deliver up to 25% more compute performance and up to twice as much floating point & cryptographic performance. On the machine learning side, Graviton3 includes support for bfloat16 data and will be able to deliver up to 3x better performance. >First in the cloud industry to be equipped with DDR5 memory. Quite hard to tell whether this is Neoverse V1 or N2. Since the description fits both . But this SVE extensions will move a lot of workload that previously wont suitable for Graviton 2 Edit: Judging from Double floating point performance it should be N2 with SVE2. Which also means Graviton 3 will be ARMv9 and on 5nm. No wonder why TSMC doubled their 5nm expansion spending. It will be interesting to see how they price G3 and G2. And much lowered priced G2 instances will be very attractive.
- ksec 5y agoCant edit it now, It should be V1, not N2.
- Uehreka 5y agoI’m going to look up what SVE extensions are, but before I do, how much work (as a proportion of all work done on EC2) couldn’t be done on G2? I generally go off the assumption that most EC2 instances are hosting web servers and database servers, along with a handful, relatively, of CI servers and perhaps a sprinkling of video transcoders, 3D renderers and ML trainers. How much of that work can’t be done with the operations supported by G2? Is it just the long tail?
- ksec 5y ago>I’m going to look up what SVE extensions are, SIMD instructions, basically in the Intel x86 world that is like SSE4. > Can’t be done on G2 Probably close to zero? Assuming your code compiles and run on ARM. It is just a matter of whether that operation is fast or slow, or in AWS terms whether it is cost effective since those EC2 instances are priced differently. And that cost includes porting and testing your software on ARM. For a lot of Web Server workload, G2 nearly offer 50% reduction in cost at the same or better performance. At the scale of twitter it absolutely makes sense to move those operation over. There are some workloads that dont like well things like 3D Renderers, or software that has too many x86 specific optimisation and takes too. much man power to port. So yes in that sense it will be a long tail of x86 instances. ( Assuming that is what you are referring to long tail )
- lostmsu 5y agoAny benchmarks? I'd like to see Geekbench 5 results from a full-sized one socket instance.
- lizthegrey 5y agoNo benchmarks yet, but I can get 30% faster latency, on 2/3 the number of instances compared to c6g for the same uncompress/compress/write to Kafka workload.
- amelius 5y agoI really hate it that big companies are rolling their own CPU now. Soon, you're not a serious developer if you don't have your own CPU. And everybody is stuck in some walled garden. I mean, it's great that the threshold to produce ICs is now lower, but is this really the way forward? Shouldn't we have separate CPU companies, so that everybody can benefit from progress, not only the mega corporations?
- pjmlp 5y agoLets not pretend using a Z80, 6502 or 68000 made the remaining hardware differences go away.
- minedwiz 5y agoI mean, it's just ARM - pretty standard architecture these days. If the big companies want to compete on chip design, I don't see it as all that different from AMD, Intel (and Via if you count them) competing on x86-compatibles.
- zamadatix 5y agoAMD/Intel/Via/IBM/ARM are in horizontal competition on chip design, Amazon/Google/Microsoft/Apple are in vertical competition on chip design. Vertical competition typically results in far less ability for the market to optimize. Compare for instance the Zen 3 upset vs the M1 upset. Zen 3 allowed the market to pick what they thought was the best CPU, the M1 allowed the market to pick if they wanted to buy an entire computer, OS, and software set because the CPU was good. Similarly with Graviton and Amazon, you can't just say Amazon is competing the same as Via, their interest is in selling the AWS ecosystem not in providing the best individual components. Same with Google and their custom chips and Microsoft with theirs now. Yes many are "just ARM" but due to custom extensions/chips and (in some cases) lack of standard ARM features that doesn't mean they are the same ARM. Of course that's not to argue it's wrong because it's vertical integration, many will think that's the better way to make complicated products, but that's not the point - the way big companies are competing on chip design is very different than if one acted like an AMD/Intel/Via competitor to actually compete in the chip space instead of a larger space.
- sabujp 5y agoyeah signed stack pointers is a thing since at least 2017 : https://lwn.net/Articles/718888/ https://lwn.net/Articles/718888/
- sydthrowaway 5y agoaka arm64e
- givemeethekeys 5y agoSide-note: Polly's intonation makes for a fairly confusing listening session.
- kloch 5y agoDDR5? Can't wait to see how the memory bandwidth performs. I have a project that is memory bandwidth limited on c6gd instances.
- 2-718-281-828 5y agoare ARM (Advanced RISC Machine) and Arm the same?
- count 5y agoYes.
- 2-718-281-828 5y agoWhy does Amz write it as "Arm" when it is an abbreviation?
- Teongot 5y agoArm's marketing department doesn't consider it an abbreviation any more. The progression of the Arm brand goes something like this: * ARM (abbreviation for Advanced RISC Machines) * ARM (not an abbreviation for anything, but looks like one) * Arm (current name, still not an abbreviation, now looks like a word) * arm (what the current logo looks like, even though the company name has a capital letter)
- 2-718-281-828 5y agookay, interesting - but at the end of the day they all refer to Advanced Risc Machine technology, right?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]