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Crypto enthusiasts want to buy an NBA team, after not purchasing US Constitution
- DantesKite 5y agoYou know, as crazy as this sounds, I do believe eventually, some iteration of cryptocurrency will succeed in a massive way. They keep stress-testing different systems to see what's possible. Most of them are terrible ideas, but it only takes one to succeed.
- okareaman 5y agoThat's not crazy at all. Persistence is big ingredient of "Think And Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill
- arcticbull 5y agoOk, but that doesn't mean it'll be good.
- RC_ITR 5y agoSure, but the counterpoint is, some things (like VR) only get so much runway before people just write them off. Then 6 years later Coinbase changes its name to DAO-verse or something.
- erikpukinskis 5y agoWhat big technological shift wasn’t written off before it worked? Computer, e-commerce, electric vehicles, all of these things have been written off. So? You can’t expect people to be able to see the future. They have to make decisions for the present. Those decisions don’t damn a technology though. Crypto has plenty of attention-over-time to mature and that’s all it needs. If it’s ever mature and everyone is writing it off and all the early adopters are leaving, that’d be a problem.
- RC_ITR 5y agoAt what point were Intel/IBM/Amazon/Toyota (Remember the Prius?) ever written off?
- Barrin92 5y agothis sounds to me like the same logic cults run on. If the world doesn't end with the Maya calendar, that's only stronger reason to believe it'll end the next year. I'm honestly not sure if the fact that every week there's some other harebrained MLM type crypto scheme going up in flames is somehow suggesting that there's some massive success around the corner
- colechristensen 5y agoMeh, if it does it’ll be really boring like Goldman Sachs developing a blockchain to handle institution level transactions on a distributed ledger. The whole thing with cryptocurrencies is just people excited about money laundering rebranded as something cool. Take that away (as no serious national government would allow such a thing) and what you have is more or less indistinguishable from Visa.
- mrep 5y agoA visa/mastercard that is 2,220 times less efficient: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29079867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29079867
- yellow_postit 5y agothey seem to just keep rediscovering why current systems exist burning massive amounts of power and money along the way. I do hope something comes of it but so far it seems to be finding nearly all the local minimas.
- chx 5y agoPlease read The Handwavy Technobabble Nothingburger https://www.stephendiehl.com/blog/nothing-burger.html https://www.stephendiehl.com/blog/nothing-burger.html and tell me where is he wrong because obviously (?) if he is right then any "massive" success is impossible.
- rchaud 5y agoYou can always make money selling the dream of impossible fortunes. Think dropshopping, work from home schemes, penny stock trading and the like.
- cblconfederate 5y agoIt will be most likely newly formed companies and not existing ones, because that way the participants will understand the risk and the lack of safety net. And frankly, why invest in NBA when you can invest in biotechnology
- paxys 5y ago1. No NBA team is currently for sale 2. Even if it was, the league wouldn't approve a sale to...whoever/whatever this is 3. Even if they did, the cheapest team is currently valued at $1.3B and the actual sale price would be a lot more than that. The last such effort raised $40M and got outbid.
- rvz 5y agoExactly. Also from the article: > the group of some 2,000 members raised the equivalent of $4 million U.S. in the cryptocurrency Ethereum in six days. Even after the ConstitutionDAO situation, using the same cryptocurrency which is bringing in the same problems. The supporters of this hopelessly utopian endeavor seem to never learn and will end up bag-holding for years. Spending more money for less than nothing.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago> the league wouldn't approve a sale to...whoever/whatever this is Commerce finds a way. If this thing raised $10bn and passed regulatory muster, one could “sell” a team with a moderating layer for governance. Long story short, the league is unlikely to be the blocking factor per se.
- Imnimo 5y agoYou are even more optimistic than their own whitepaper: >we anticipate the NBA will not be favorable to giving majority ownership to any faceless DAO/corporation in the near or medium term regardless of $$ offer.
- JumpCrisscross 5y agoIf every other hurdle is miraculously jumped, the NBA will not be the sole obstructionist. This DAO is unlikely to get approval because of the regulatory questions and because they have no money. If you were trying to derisk this project, the NBA should not be a concern.
- fineIllregister 5y ago
- sydthrowaway 5y agoWow, I can’t believe the minimum NBA team value is $1bn. Crazy market.
- dannyw 5y agoYou know the market is overvalued when an iteration of Runescape gold is "worth" multiple trillions.
- SturgeonsLaw 5y agoYou're laughing now, but you'll sing a different tune when you want to get your rune armour trimmed
- wyxuan 5y ago*excluding the Pelicans
- TMWNN 5y agoThe big jump occurred when Ballmer paid $2 billion for the Los Angeles Clippers in 2014. Despite being a historically terrible franchise that is the third team in the city behind a) the Lakers and b) whatever team that you were already a fan of before moving to southern California, the price was four (!) times as much as what any previous NBA team sold for.
- arnvald 5y agoIt's unbelieveable, especially considering their values 10 years ago. Brooklyn Nets were acquired in 2010 for $200m, and then sold in 2019 for $3.3b - 16x more in 9 years!
- gruez 5y agoThis seems like... obviously a security? I seriously hope they're registering with the SEC for this. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/howey-test.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/howey-test.asp >1. An investment of money check >2. In a common enterprise check >3. With the expectation of profit Probably? Why else would they be buying a team for? >4. To be derived from the efforts of others3 check. edit: I took a look at their "Flightpaper", and in it they acknowledged that some parts of it might pass the Howey Test, and they recognize the possibility of regulatory oversight >This funding model requires extensive SEC regulation oversight. However, they're pretty light on details on whether it would actually be approved by the SEC or not. Also by the looks of it they haven't registered with the SEC right now, but they're already raising funds?
- charcircuit 5y agoStop being a fun police. The internet allows us to be free from the government.
- CryptoPunk 5y agoYou will find the opposition to cryptocurrency is strongly correlated with believing that people should not be free from the government.
- emerged 5y agoBeing free from the government, also known as being a criminal.
- vmception 5y agoIts a prisoner's dilemma, the SEC's mission of protecting investors is impossible if their only response to compliance are enforcement actions that will hurt investors In the past, this meant that exchanges won't list the token to trade (or delist, with traders panic selling before the delisting events), as any asset notified as being a security requires a broker-dealer to trade it ONLY IF it is registered. But for the past 2 years, centralized exchanges aren't involved in the liquidity. The network has innovated a way to incentivize liquidity with a fundamentally different model of exchange called AMMs (automated market markers, the acronym tells you nothing about why it is different though, but thats the term to look up). AMMs let people pool liquidity onchain and there is practically zero consequence anymore from SEC action - with regard to globally accessible liquidity. And sure, maybe the numerous liquidity providers can be sanctioned but they don't care, it is extremely easy to mix your legitimate funds with Tornado Cash and come out the other side and make a liquidity pool anonymously with mixed funds. It is up the regulator to figure out who to sanction and in this case the mixer's use isn't criminal and the clean funds on the ensuing anonymous side are only a civil issue. Also, even if you want to argue the cat and mouse game favoring the government's omnipotence, liquidity can be burned making that liquidity permanent no matter what happens to the human. I would actually argue a significant bullish thesis is based on how many assets are intentionally burned in liquidity pool bearer shares. Its pretty much perfect right now (with room for improvement in the liquidity pool technology). Between permissionless AMMs and permissionless bridges, and 3 trillion USD already within the crypto ecosystem outside of exchanges, its just not really the same game as it was 3 years ago. The SEC regulates the intermediaries and now those intermediaries have been disintermediated.
- lelandfe 5y agoLocal Group Pools 0.3% of Asking Price for Thing, Claims to be Serious
- wyxuan 5y agoThey’re going for a minority stake, along with a few other intermediate milestones
- MisterBastahrd 5y agoThe NBA has a rule where a team can have no more than 25 total owners and the least an owner can hold is 1%. It was created in response to shenanigans by team owners where they would sell tiny fractions of a percent of the company to friends and family so they could claim they owned teams. So unless one of them have at least $12M laying around, I don't see any of them being able to do this.
- AnimalMuppet 5y agoYeah. If you couldn't afford the Constitution, how are you going to afford an NBA team?
- reginold 5y agoSince the title doesn't make this clear -- this is not ConstitutionDAO. It's a new DAO called Krause House.
- thesuperbigfrog 5y agoApologies on the title. It is a bit misleading in that it it is a different DAO (Krause House). Just following the HN guideline: "please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize." from https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html with a minor change to the original title to fit length restrictions. Not sure if the NPR headline writers understood the DAO difference or just wanted to generate more interest in the story.
- hirundo 5y agoWho exactly are you answerable to if your boss is a DAO? Does a group of random crypto enthusiasts act as the board of directors? If so, how do I short that company?
- cagr 5y agoThis won't ever happen so you (we) won't get to short it unfortunately.
- hotpockets 5y agoI'm pretty sure there are crypto projects where you could, in fact, short it. Check out Beta Finance for instance.
- arcticbull 5y agoThere are but you really shouldn't. It's such a wasteland you'll get savaged before you can turn a profit. It's not grounded in fundamentals and it's exposed to industrial scale price manipulation. The only win is not to play.
- trevyn 5y agoIt sounds like you’re trying to fit new pegs into old holes?
- jacobr1 5y agoSame way shareholders manage their ownership stake now? They elect a board of directors that oversees the senior management?
- stepanhruda 5y agoFind someone who will lend you their tokens (if it’s on-chain, you will need collateral) and sell them. Later you can buy same amount of tokens from the market for a lower price - if price indeed goes down.
- erikpukinskis 5y ago
- ajankelo 5y agoWill never happen. Have to be approved by the board of governors of NBA.
- doopy1 5y agoNBA is pretty crypto friendly though... Have you heard of BNA Top Shot?
- wyxuan 5y agoThe timeline referred in the title is a little off. Krause house was started a couple months ago and has been active for a bit, while ConstitutionDAO was spun up and closed down in less than two weeks
- leppr 5y agoSimilarly the line about ConstitutionDAO investors struggling to "recoup their losses" is dishonest as they got a full refund, and the DAO token has been pumped by Chinese communities, making it a 10x profit if sold now [1]. [1] https://www.coingecko.com/coins/constitutiondao https://www.coingecko.com/coins/constitutiondao
- paxys 5y agoCorrect me if I'm not understanding this DAO "revolution" correctly: - A group of people pool some money together. - The money is used to buy assets/fund projects. - Members vote on spending, governance etc., with their vote being proportional to their investment. - They can raise money by issuing more "tokens" for new investors. - Existing members can sell their tokens to someone else. Like, congrats crypto community, you just invented a...public company?
- patrickaljord 5y agoFirst, the difference is that it's trust-less because people votes are backed by crypto. Second, you're aware the "congrats, you've just invented" argument is a ridiculous fallacy that can be used against any kind of innovation. It's also has a very bad record as it's been used against the internet, smartphones, social media etc.
- bendergarcia 5y agoRight but it’s like a meta company. Like, a company of anything, not just traditional businesses. Plus the whole process is totally streamlined and, outside of rug pulls, super transparent. Ownership and transfer of ownership is in front of everyone’s eyes. It’s like what Amazon did. People could buy stuff before, but now they could buy stuff with much more ease (search, order, return etc).
- agucova 5y agoLike just an organization? A non-profit or other type of cooperative depending on your local regulations might fit exactly. I don't see how it improves any part of the process.
- dudeman6969 5y agoYou can create and fund one on Twitter over a weekend…
- jimkleiber 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- fortuna86 5y agoCan the crypto market please hurry up and crash already?
- thruway516 5y agoLol. If this isn't proof that we are close to the beginning of the end of a bubble the likes of which the world has never seen before, I don't know what is.
- reginold 5y agoCare to explain? The idea of a bunch of people pooling their money to buy an NBA team seems pretty practical to me. Is it the media/popularity aspect that makes you think of the end of a bubble? ie if they were buying something more mundane like a small plot of real estate would that be less hype-y?
- mdasen 5y agoWhat will happen to the funds contributed to ConstitutionDAO that owners don't feel is worth paying the "gas" fees to get the refund on? > the group said it had 17,437 donors with a median donation of $206.26... One user on the Discord said that in order to get $400 refunded, they would have to pay $168 in gas (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-59392827 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-59392827) Presumably there are people who donated $100 and it isn't worth getting the money back. Are these pots of money a good way for a scammer to get a lot of money input and then only have to refund 75% of the donated money? If they raised $40M and only $30M gets refunded, who controls the remaining $10M? At some point it seems like it would be ripe for a scam. Even if this case has some protections, it seems like it would be easy for someone to do something unprotected in the future. Everyone send me bitcoin and if we hit $2B in bitcoin in the account, we'll buy an NBA team and all share ownership in proportion to our investment. If we aren't able to buy a team, you can get a refund. Oh, 1% of people forgot about it and didn't claim their refund within the 2-year refund window? Well, that's $20M for me. Has this been solved and I just don't know it?
- R0b0t1 5y agoTheir legal claim to the value stored in the eth isn't gone just because they can't get it out. If these are actually set up in a legal way these type of pots are nuclear waste. You don't want to be stuck keeping this thing alive or disbursing money from it. The first couple of times the scammers may win, who knows.
- doopy1 5y agoIronically, ConstitutionDAO's $PEOPLE token has soared in value and many folks made exits at 30x.
- jimkleiber 5y agoSo, a company (DAO) says it's going to use investment money (token contributions) to buy an asset (copy of the Constitution) and fails to buy the asset...and then the stock (token) goes up 30x in price?
- JumpCrisscross 5y agoThis will obviously not work. But assuming you could get AML working for the DAO such that it doesn’t get legally nuked from orbit, for what assets would this model work better than existing systems? At first glance, its strengths appear to be of benefit to groups who are bad at keeping minutes/records, or keeping their treasurers from stealing their funds.
- boomboomsubban 5y agoIt's not dissimilar to the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan owning the Toronto Raptors for a decade, I imagine they'd need to prove they have several years of operating budget available before purchasing but I can't see why they'd be disallowed outright.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jollybean 5y agoWe need the SEC to provide some leadership in these nutty times when people try to re-invent kooky business plans from centuries past.
- kevindeasis 5y agoI'm on the neutral side of the playing field. But, if they actually wanted to do this, they're missing a lot of critical steps in order for them to actually successfully do this. Granted, they even hit the price to purchase a team
- rasz 5y agoNFT. They meant they want to pay $40m for NFT of NBA team.
- NicoJuicy 5y agoThis is just for the media attention, nothing more.
- freewilly1040 5y agoSomewhat off topic, can anyone recommend a good HN content filter? These crypto scams topping the front page all the time have ceased to be amusing…
- monkeydust 5y agoIf anyone watches UK Football you might be thinking that a DAO manager might not be the craziest idea out there given the ridiculous turnover in managers in recent years. I mean would be an epic experiment to watch.
- arnvald 5y agoI think in a sense it's a fun idea. I highly doubt it will ever materialize, but it's ok to dream big and work towards that dream! I imagine this community might educate themselves in how to run a business like a sport club, what are different responsibilities there, etc. They have funds that they can use to invite some guests from NBA to talk about the work behind the scenes. Yeah they will never actually own a club, but as long as everyone there believes that it's the journey that matters - have fun!
- GDC7 5y agoI was waiting for the crypto crowd to do something like this. It's the ultimate dumb move for somebody who won the lottery (either real or figurative) When things go well the public falls in love with the players, when things go south the owners are the first in line of the firing squad . Fans , media, talk show hosts...they get attacked by everybody, maybe only the coach has it worse but at least he can leave.
- brown9-2 5y agoIt will probably cost over $1 billion to buy a team, seems like you should need to raise more than 0.4% of the amount before having your project written about in the media as credible.