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Im thankful to have a job and a roof over my head and a little bit of savings. Not having to really worry about money still blows my mind now and then. Looking
by pkdpic 5y ago
Im thankful to have a job and a roof over my head and a little bit of savings. Not having to really worry about money still blows my mind now and then.
Looking across the street every day in California and seeing the homelessness crisis in full swing is an ever present reminder of what this economy and this society can do to you if you slip up for even a second and / or have even a minor run of bad luck.
Working in software isn't always easy or fun or fulfilling but its still an incredible privilege to be working in this industry.
- elzbardico 5y agoI hear you man, I hear you
- _huayra_ 5y agoEven things like not having to budget for groceries and the occasional going out to eat is something I often take for granted. I stay frugal, but have never really had to hem and haw about whether I should spring for the organic produce or fair trade coffee. "I can't afford this" is a lot more difficult of a circumstance to be in than "boy that was a dumb idea to purchase some pricey, fancy, but nasty cheese on a whim"
- pkdpic 5y agoI could agree more with this, word for word. It still hits me almost every time I go to the grocery store somehow.
- LiquidPolymer 5y agoThis strikes home for me. I come from an extended family of laborers and addicts. All of us had the same future: miserable work, low wages, multiple bankruptcies, and early death. I’m 57. I’ve worked as a photographer for 32 years, made a great living and traveled the world. I’ve collaborated with incredible people, and seen (and documented) amazing things. I live in a beautiful house (I paid it off years ago) in a great city. I have zero debt and have so many options about what I’ll do. My retirement investments have been done very well (good luck getting me to stop working). I have a wonderful family and an incredible daughter. I never take any of this for granted. I am so thankful. My siblings, cousins, aunts, etc see me like an alien creature. At 57 I’m the oldest living male in generations of my family.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- igorkraw 5y agoIf you can and aren't already, maybe consider organising with less privileged workers for things like striking in unison. Or getting politically active to grow economy and society so it will be kinder and allow a slip up. One of the many reasons I would never move to the US is that in Europe I don't feel like a minor slip up or bad luck will send me into financial ruin. I'll need surgery on my shoulder soon and hopefully it should be fully covered by my health insurance, no added charges. It's an example that comes up again and again and I'm sure people in your position worry less about it, but it's something I keep seeing play a role with my acquaintances and online
- gjs278 5y agothat will only increase prices for poor people
- thegypsyking 5y agoI moved from europe to the us because I could never become financially independent with the low compensation and high taxes in EU. I would never wish for us to ever be as unambitious and hard to grow as the eu is.
- Aeolun 5y agoI think it’s quite possible to find a middle road there.
- cafeoh 5y agoYou would never wish it for those that achieve growth or for the people suffering homelessness, debt, precariousness, etc? My gut tells me we both have very different ideas on what ambition is/can be, what form of growth is valuable, and how economic liberalism weighs in. Ethics aside, the taxes I've been paying out of my salary since I've been in the industry allows me today to benefit from an incredible financial safety net as I'm attempting to put together my own R&D software company.
- mojuba 5y agoOn Europe vs. the US: if you consider private health insurance in the US a part of your taxes, then the difference is not that big anymore. In fact it may even be the other way around: in the US you may be overpaying for health services if you are insured [1] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/22/upshot/hospital-prices.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/22/upshot/hospit...
- quickthrower2 5y agoCalifornia sounds so extreme in this regard. When I started working in software in the UK I made much less than say a hairdresser, and never saw homeless people (not in a city so…). I didn’t feel this stark difference that being in 2020s + SF seems to highlight.
- WalterBright 5y agoWhen I'd visit London on business in the 80's, the homeless were very much present and visible. The concierge at the hotel told me not to leave the hotel before 6AM (I had jet lag and was headed out for a walk) because I'd be easy meat.
- dave1999x 5y agoLondon really cleaned up in the 90s. There is still visible homeless, but nothing like US cities with homeless camps. Officially, there are a lot of "homeless" but far fewer "unsheltered"
- WalterBright 5y agoI've lived in Seattle since the 70s. I never saw tents until recently.
- dave1999x 5y agoI arrived in Seattle yesterday, staying in Ballard. Wow, it's bad here. Worse than it used to be pre-pandemic.
- kortilla 5y agoIf you weren’t in a city that’s the difference. You only need to travel like 20 miles south of San Francisco to never see homeless people. Mountain View might as well be a different country.
- axiolite 5y ago> Im thankful to have a job I think you've got that backwards. Everyone is thankful for money and possessions. A job is just how you happen to get them. Would you be unhappy to be very wealthy, without a job? > seeing the homelessness crisis in full swing is an ever present reminder of what this economy and this society can do to you if you slip up for even a second and / or have even a minor run of bad luck. I've known a lot of homeless people. Their circumstances are overwhelmingly caused by drug addition or mental illness. Not that anyone will admit to it. If you're willing and able to work full-time, you can manage a reasonable living. There are government and private programs to support the disabled, unemployed, keep the impoverished who don't fit those categories from starving, etc. Not to mention charities, and friends/family groups who will help most anyone who doesn't get enough support from those programs, or just had "bad luck". Mental illness and drug addition does a good job of cutting you off from all those sources of support.
- late2part 5y agoWould you be unhappy to be very wealthy, without a job? Yes.
- WalterBright 5y ago> A job is just how you happen to get them I happen to enjoy my job very much. I'd feel useless and bored without it.
- axiolite 5y agoIf you didn't have to worry about money, you'd have ample time to find fulfilling hobbies to occupy your time. You could even do all the parts of your job that you enjoy, while skipping all the unpleasant parts of it.
- WalterBright 5y agoI created my own job by starting my own business, which I enjoyed a lot and it paid well.
- 5y ago
- WalterBright 5y agoIn Seattle anyway, 90% of the homeless are either drug addicts or alcoholics. Becoming one is a choice under your control, not god smiting you. > Working in software is a heluva lot better than stoop labor, what people have done for millennia. Every time I work on the yard I'm reminded again at how hard stoop labor is, and how I'm glad to work sitting in a comfy chair in a warm house with the stereo playing in the background. And I can play on HN when waiting for the test suite to run.
- erect_hacker4 5y agoAddiction is a choice. Classic HN.
- renjimen 5y ago> Becoming one is a choice under your control To an extent. Some people are predisposed to addiction and the poor are much less likely to have the knowledge or support required to recognise or battle addiction.
- WalterBright 5y agoI know that some people are predisposed to addiction. It's harder for them, sure, but becoming an addict is still a choice for them. I know some who chose to get and stay clean, too, despite being predisposed. I wager that poor people are far better at recognizing addiction than non-poor. I hired a stoner once, not recognizing it. He robbed the company blind to pay his dealer. Social workers are always trying to get the homeless addicts into rehab. They generally refuse to. It is their choice, not lack of money. In fact, I suspect that the lack of money is caused by their choice to be addicted. After all, addicts lose interest in their jobs and employers don't want stoners and drunks coming to work.
- maroonblazer 5y agoHow much of a choice is it to be attracted to a given individual? Or to crave a certain kind of food? Or to be consumed with a specific kind of work? Or to care for your child? I.e. I think we overestimate how much of a 'choice' certain outcomes are for most people.
- thowaway959125 5y ago> Looking across the street every day in California and seeing the homelessness crisis in full swing is an ever present reminder of what this economy and this society can do to you if you slip up for even a second and / or have even a minor run of bad luck. Working in software isn't always easy or fun or fulfilling but its still an incredible privilege to be working in this industry. I'm a senior software engineer with decades in the industry, but a few years ago I completely burned out, ended up addicted to alcohol, and lost everything. And when I say lost everything, I mean everything. I ended up in a homeless shelter. Climbing out from there to get back into the industry was an insane battle. I finally got control over all of it and back on my feet, but I have a new found respect for just being able to keep a roof over my head and pay bills now. That's all I want. I use my free time to give back to society now.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y agoThanks for sharing. I'm glad you're doing well.
- pkdpic 5y agoThank you so much for sharing this, its deeply inspiring and feels like really important context / wisdom for someone still at the beginning of their dev career. This is exactly why HN can be such an amazing community (imho). Im more and more thankful for that as well.
- major--neither 5y agoyikes! glad you climbed back.
- human 5y agoI don’t think you read the piece.
- chasil 5y agoI was lucky enough to have spent my youth in one of the five least expensive places to live in the United States, and I stayed. I can easily buy a home for $30,000 here, and I have done so a few times. I was fortunate enough to find a company where I live that wrote their major systems in assembler in the late 1960's; they use UNIX/Linux to glue modern systems to a vertical wall of technical debt. This is an endless amount of fun. I go only so far into these legacy systems (we even have an emulated VAX running VMS, which I keep at arm's distance). I should be thankful for having an unprivileged VMS account. I don't want to run that system.
- kwertyoowiyop 5y agoThat actually does sound like fun! Live that dream!