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Samsung does this for their top end models? WTF! I’ll put them on my list of devices to never buy then. Jeez.

patrickk 5y ago
Samsung boasts about having Automatic Content Recognition[1] on their website. There was a discussion on HN some time ago, many/all major tv manufacturers suck in your viewing data via HDMI fingerprinting (IIRC) in order to serve up unblockable ads and sell your viewing profile to ad networks. Many tv makers send data to Chinese based servers too, from memory. It’s nuts. [1]https://www.samsung.com/us/business/samsungads/resources/tv-ad-retargeting/ https://www.samsung.com/us/business/samsungads/resources/tv-... Edit, more reading: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/09/18/you-watch-tv-your-tv-watches-back/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/09/18/you-wat...
ornornor 5y ago
They do a lot more than that. In particular, they take a screenshot of what you’re currently watching at regular intervals and send it to a content recognition server. That way they’re able to tell what every single Samsung owner is watching at any given time and even if you’re watching a show you downloaded or something that’s not on the air. They then sell this data to broadcasters for measuring audience but also to show you ads related to what you’re watching (if you watched ice age, maybe they’ll advertise another animation movie to you). And they also use that data to target you on other devices you own because they’re able to use your tv as a Trojan horse and figure out what other devices are on your network and thus belong to the same person. IIRC they also scan and extract what devices are connected to hdmi ports so they know what consoles etc you’re using to further complete your advertising profile. That was several years ago, I can’t imagine they’ve gotten anything but even more data greedy over time. A good Samsung tv is an offline Samsung tv. A better Samsung tv is one you don’t own.
- fnord123 5y ago
  This is gonna be some hefty GDPR fines in Europe.
  - null_object 5y ago
    > This is gonna be some hefty GDPR fines in Europe. I keep hoping this is gonna be the case, but the years roll on, I'm still clicking some stupid consent-popup on every single website I ever visit, and in the meantime TV manufacturers continuously spy on their users, sell their user-data, and push unwanted ads into their interface and even in programs being watched, and apparently no-one (apart from a few of us on HN) seems to care.
    - Nullabillity 5y ago
      For what it's worth, at least on my Swedish model, this seems to be gated behind an opt-in (default off!) consent toggle. It was buried in several layers of menus, and not even mentioned during the setup process. So I would assume that this is mostly an issue in non-GDPR regions (or they're doing some really ugly legal shenanigans to ignore the denied consent?).
      - fnord123 5y ago
        "We have a '''legitimate interest''' in getting your personal info, because we want to sell it to third parties" https://www.gdpreu.org/the-regulation/key-concepts/legitimate-interest/ https://www.gdpreu.org/the-regulation/key-concepts/legitimat... > Legitimate interests is most appropriate as a lawful basis where companies use personal data in a way that individuals can reasonably expect. If it impacts individuals, it can still apply if the controller company can justify there is a compelling reason for the impact the processing will have. > Companies can rely on legitimate interests for marketing purposes if they can prove that the data usage is proportionate and fair to the user. It must have a minimal impact on the user in privacy terms and be for a reason that people would not be surprised at. Sadly I would reasonably expect Samsung to sell the data and I would not be surprised by it.
    - shawn-butler 5y ago
      Because people keep buying them and no viable competitive manufacturing capability exists in the West anymore. Soon it will violate the warranty not to plug it into the network. Probably for “security” or to protect the children.
- amelius 5y ago
  > That way they’re able to tell what every single Samsung owner is watching at any given time and even if you’re watching a show you downloaded or something that’s not on the air. Wait a second, what if I use my TV as a monitor for my PC?
  - ornornor 5y ago
    If you’re watching tv shows or movies that way, they know all the same. ACR works based on the image being displayed, not the source.
  - londons_explore 5y ago
    Well then they know you're using Excel and probably want to be sold pension plans...
  - albert_e 5y ago
    ...And doing all kinds of business confidential work for my employer or government ... and also looking at PII,financial,medical data of my own including SSNs and whatnot. !!!
    - amelius 5y ago
      Or video chatting with gf ...
    - ornornor 5y ago
      They take I think 30 pixels across known positions on the screen and that’s apparently enough to recognize content without being able to look at your confidential data.
  - genewitch 5y ago
    it's not a screenshot, they sample pixels and get essentially a CSV of the pixel values at several locations. There's then a content database with frame by frame values for those pixels for all the content in the database. Sending a screenshot would use too much bandwidth/data on Samsung's side, but a couple dozen bytes every few minutes would not.
- anticensor 5y ago
  So, a non-consensual people meter?

Samsung boasts about having Automatic Content Recognition[1] on their website. There was a discussion on HN some time ago, many/all major tv manufacturers suck in your viewing data via HDMI fingerprinting (IIRC) in order to serve up unblockable ads and sell your viewing profile to ad networks. Many tv makers send data to Chinese based servers too, from memory. It’s nuts. [1]https://www.samsung.com/us/business/samsungads/resources/tv-ad-retargeting/ https://www.samsung.com/us/business/samsungads/resources/tv-... Edit, more reading: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/09/18/you-watch-tv-your-tv-watches-back/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/09/18/you-wat...

ornornor 5y ago

They do a lot more than that. In particular, they take a screenshot of what you’re currently watching at regular intervals and send it to a content recognition server. That way they’re able to tell what every single Samsung owner is watching at any given time and even if you’re watching a show you downloaded or something that’s not on the air. They then sell this data to broadcasters for measuring audience but also to show you ads related to what you’re watching (if you watched ice age, maybe they’ll advertise another animation movie to you). And they also use that data to target you on other devices you own because they’re able to use your tv as a Trojan horse and figure out what other devices are on your network and thus belong to the same person. IIRC they also scan and extract what devices are connected to hdmi ports so they know what consoles etc you’re using to further complete your advertising profile. That was several years ago, I can’t imagine they’ve gotten anything but even more data greedy over time. A good Samsung tv is an offline Samsung tv. A better Samsung tv is one you don’t own.

fnord123 5y ago
This is gonna be some hefty GDPR fines in Europe.
- null_object 5y ago
  > This is gonna be some hefty GDPR fines in Europe. I keep hoping this is gonna be the case, but the years roll on, I'm still clicking some stupid consent-popup on every single website I ever visit, and in the meantime TV manufacturers continuously spy on their users, sell their user-data, and push unwanted ads into their interface and even in programs being watched, and apparently no-one (apart from a few of us on HN) seems to care.
  - Nullabillity 5y ago
    For what it's worth, at least on my Swedish model, this seems to be gated behind an opt-in (default off!) consent toggle. It was buried in several layers of menus, and not even mentioned during the setup process. So I would assume that this is mostly an issue in non-GDPR regions (or they're doing some really ugly legal shenanigans to ignore the denied consent?).
    - fnord123 5y ago
      "We have a '''legitimate interest''' in getting your personal info, because we want to sell it to third parties" https://www.gdpreu.org/the-regulation/key-concepts/legitimate-interest/ https://www.gdpreu.org/the-regulation/key-concepts/legitimat... > Legitimate interests is most appropriate as a lawful basis where companies use personal data in a way that individuals can reasonably expect. If it impacts individuals, it can still apply if the controller company can justify there is a compelling reason for the impact the processing will have. > Companies can rely on legitimate interests for marketing purposes if they can prove that the data usage is proportionate and fair to the user. It must have a minimal impact on the user in privacy terms and be for a reason that people would not be surprised at. Sadly I would reasonably expect Samsung to sell the data and I would not be surprised by it.
  - shawn-butler 5y ago
    Because people keep buying them and no viable competitive manufacturing capability exists in the West anymore. Soon it will violate the warranty not to plug it into the network. Probably for “security” or to protect the children.
amelius 5y ago
> That way they’re able to tell what every single Samsung owner is watching at any given time and even if you’re watching a show you downloaded or something that’s not on the air. Wait a second, what if I use my TV as a monitor for my PC?
- ornornor 5y ago
  If you’re watching tv shows or movies that way, they know all the same. ACR works based on the image being displayed, not the source.
- londons_explore 5y ago
  Well then they know you're using Excel and probably want to be sold pension plans...
- albert_e 5y ago
  ...And doing all kinds of business confidential work for my employer or government ... and also looking at PII,financial,medical data of my own including SSNs and whatnot. !!!
  - amelius 5y ago
    Or video chatting with gf ...
  - ornornor 5y ago
    They take I think 30 pixels across known positions on the screen and that’s apparently enough to recognize content without being able to look at your confidential data.
- genewitch 5y ago
  it's not a screenshot, they sample pixels and get essentially a CSV of the pixel values at several locations. There's then a content database with frame by frame values for those pixels for all the content in the database. Sending a screenshot would use too much bandwidth/data on Samsung's side, but a couple dozen bytes every few minutes would not.
anticensor 5y ago
So, a non-consensual people meter?