7 ms·

The shortsightedness of people is amazing: since the '70s, when oil prices go down, people reliably buy wasteful and large cars. Then they go up, and people rel

The shortsightedness of people is amazing: since the '70s, when oil prices go down, people reliably buy wasteful and large cars. Then they go up, and people reliably do the opposite. In the last ten years, everyone and their brother bought vanity pickup trucks and SUVs. Now, suddenly, everyone is shocked, shocked that oil prices have gone back up. Will anyone ever learn?

rory_isAdonk 5y ago
are you trying to tell me finite resources aren't infinite? You ain't mur'ican den buddy.
syberiyxx 5y ago
There's minimal shared consciousness among humans.
onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
The Silverado and the F-150 are the only 2 cars in the top 15 best-selling cars in the US which are particularly fuel inefficient. The best selling cars for quite some time have been decently fuel efficient in the US. Even when gas prices are expensive - the US has never been selling a lot of cars like the Fiat 500.
- kesselvon 5y ago
  18 of the top 25 selling cars in the U.S. are SUVs or pick-ups. Which are inherently less efficient than a sedan.
  - dahfizz 5y ago
    Not really. The top selling SUVs (RAV4, CRV, and Rogue) all get 35 mpg on the highway. That's better than the non-hybrid Honda Accord, for example.
    - diebeforei485 5y ago
      I've always found the "highway" thing to not be very useful. Yes, if you're on cruise control on the open highway at constant speed, you will get good mileage in an SUV. But in practice that sort of situation only applies during road trips. Most people's actual highway driving is driving in traffic, which is a lot less efficient.
      - _ea1k 5y ago
        Its not that bad. I've had daily commutes that were 70% highway at 40-60, and that's much closer to the EPA "highway" cycle than it should be. The highway cycle is actually not all high speed driving.
      - rory 5y ago
        > Most people's actual highway driving is driving in traffic, which is a lot less efficient. Is that statistical, or anecdotal? It's counter to my personal driving patterns. Even in moderate congestion my Hyundai gets mileage closer to its "highway" MPG than "city" (when using cruise/distance control).
      - citrin_ru 5y ago
        > Most people's actual highway driving is driving in traffic When I had cars I used them mostly to get out on weekends or for longer trips on vocations. May be I’m an outlier but during the pandemic time work from home is common and this allows to avoid driving in traffic.
      - fomine3 5y ago
        Hybrids mainly helps frequent stop city driving rather than constant highway driving, SUVs aren't good for Cd value that's important for highway driving. Because of that, pure ICE sedans should get relatively good value for highway mileage, but not good for city.
    - Balero 5y ago
      Yes really. That is not a very good benchmark. My Toyota Yaris gets over 50mpg on motorways, so about 50% better.
  - Aunche 5y ago
    Most SUVs are intentionally just taller hatchbacks. They're maybe a couple mpg less fuel efficient than a similar sedan, but in return you get a more comfortable feeling car.
    - evilduck 5y ago
      And far more utility than a traditional sedan, I own one of each and my midsized SUV that covers a lot of small truck use cases. I can strap things to the roof racks, I can open the back and lay down the seats and carry small and extended cargo. It has all wheel drive and handles bad weather conditions better than a front wheel drive car. It's higher up and provides better visibility than my sedan. It can handle hauling small trailers. Sedans _typically_ don't come equipped to handle dirty things like outdoor sports and pets while my SUV has rubber floor mats/trays everywhere. For road trips and camping trips I can pack almost twice as much stuff in the SUV and those things are more easy accessed than a car trunk. SUVs existing _prevent_ me from buying a small to midsized truck so to me the view is "look at the efficiency gained compared to the Ranger or Tacoma" instead of "look at how inefficient the Outback or Escape is compared to a Civic".
      - YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
        That's when you realize that there are station wagons with better mpg more utility and your head explodes.
        evilduck 5y ago
        I'm not ignorant of them but there simply aren't that many wagon options on the market new or used and peak MPG isn't the only metric for purchasing a vehicle.
        YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
        Your post seemed pretty ignorant of other choices besides SUVs and trucks. Mercedes has 6 station wagons/shooting brakes, VW has 4, BMW has 4, Toyota has 5, Hyundai has 4, Kia has 3, Honda got 5 every big car manufacture has at least 3 station wagons in their portfolio. I know there are more SUVs because of the SUV hype in the last years but stating that there are no options on the market is just not true.
- nyokodo 5y ago
  > The Silverado and the F-150 are the only 2 cars in the top 15 best-selling cars in the US which are particularly fuel inefficient. Sure, however the F-150 was by far the biggest selling vehicle at least up until 2019. Over 3 times as many sold as the second most popular vehicle.
  - SkyPuncher 5y ago
    My father's F-150 is _more_ fuel efficient than my 4-cylinder crossover - both in the mid-20's for mpg. In order to get a meaningful reduction in consumption, you need to be driving a sedan or coupe. ---- Many of the bigger vehicles have unnecessarily large engines. However, that's not necessarily true across the board.
    - mint2 5y ago
      A Forster or outback is not a coupe or sedan and the forester mpg is 33 highway.
    - xattt 5y ago
      Best of both worlds of capacity and fuel economy is a station wagon. With the Golf Sportwagen (EU name Golf Variant) off the market in North America now, it leaves Volvos and Subarus as the only option. I predict that in the next decade, station wagons will get rediscovered as manufacturers try to maximize range and reduce battery volume as electrification marches on. Edit: forgot about Subarus
      - tssva 5y ago
        Isn't the Subaru Outback still a station wagon even if they try to disguise it with crossover inspired body panels.
        raydev 5y ago
        It has quite a bit of ground clearance despite it's low profile. It's higher off the ground than more popular models like the CR-V, RAV4, Highlander, etc.
- nradov 5y ago
  Some Ford F-150 models get 25 mpg combined fuel economy. That's pretty good. At that rate a typical owner will spend only a few hundred dollars per year extra on fuel compared to a smaller car. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=43614 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=43614
coolso 5y ago
> Now, suddenly, everyone is shocked, shocked that oil prices have gone back up. We also had ten years worth of truck and SUV purchases prior to inauguration day early this year, and I recall everyone paying almost a dollar and a half less per gallon during that time period.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
rsj_hn 5y ago
> The shortsightedness of people is amazing: since the '70s, when oil prices go down, people reliably buy wasteful and large cars. Then they go up, and people reliably do the opposite. You don't want people to respond to economic incentives? That means there is no point to adding gas taxes to incentivize fuel efficiency - or do you believe that people only respond to increasing gas prices and not decreasing prices? How, in your view, would such an asymmetric response function work?
adrianmonk 5y ago
Is that the reason, though? I heard on the news (unfortunately don't remember where) that oil production decreased when people were driving less, then as people resumed driving, production didn't increase as fast as demand. Which would make sense to me because there have been a ton of situations where some pandemic event has caused some previously generally stable thing to shift (up or down) to some new level, then we have chaos as other things try to adapt and find a new equilibrium. Then when the pandemic stops forcing that thing to an unusual level, it springs back toward its normal level, and again other things take time to adapt and find an equilibrium. So actually we seem to get two edge-triggered periods of chaos where something shifts from value V1 to V2 (that's one edge trigger) and then shifts back from V2 to V1-ish (the other edge trigger). And if you look at crude oil prices over the last few years, they were lower during 2020 than in previous years. Now they are higher. So that fits the pattern I'm describing.
- citrin_ru 5y ago
  > Then when the pandemic stops forcing that thing to an unusual level, it springs back toward its normal level, and again other things take time to adapt and find an equilibrium. There will be no stable equilibrium for a long time ahead. Governments around the world continue to introduce lockdowns on a short notice when cases rise and we are nowhere near COVID-restrictions free international travel. Any change in restrictions would change oil demand too.
mint2 5y ago
I was reading car and drivers list of worst mpg vehicles today, not surprisingly pick up trucks are awful. 16mpg highway with giant gas tanks. No wonder people feel the pain when they have to pay like $200 to fill up and be able to drive ~400miles. I don’t have sympathy except for the ones that legitimately use it for work. Otherwise it’s massively wasteful and all that’s different now is they can feel how wasteful their car is.
nerdponx 5y ago
How much does the gas mileage of consumer automobiles in the USA actually affect oil prices?

rory_isAdonk 5y ago

are you trying to tell me finite resources aren't infinite? You ain't mur'ican den buddy.

syberiyxx 5y ago

There's minimal shared consciousness among humans.

onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago

The Silverado and the F-150 are the only 2 cars in the top 15 best-selling cars in the US which are particularly fuel inefficient. The best selling cars for quite some time have been decently fuel efficient in the US. Even when gas prices are expensive - the US has never been selling a lot of cars like the Fiat 500.

kesselvon 5y ago
18 of the top 25 selling cars in the U.S. are SUVs or pick-ups. Which are inherently less efficient than a sedan.
- dahfizz 5y ago
  Not really. The top selling SUVs (RAV4, CRV, and Rogue) all get 35 mpg on the highway. That's better than the non-hybrid Honda Accord, for example.
  - diebeforei485 5y ago
    I've always found the "highway" thing to not be very useful. Yes, if you're on cruise control on the open highway at constant speed, you will get good mileage in an SUV. But in practice that sort of situation only applies during road trips. Most people's actual highway driving is driving in traffic, which is a lot less efficient.
    - _ea1k 5y ago
      Its not that bad. I've had daily commutes that were 70% highway at 40-60, and that's much closer to the EPA "highway" cycle than it should be. The highway cycle is actually not all high speed driving.
    - rory 5y ago
      > Most people's actual highway driving is driving in traffic, which is a lot less efficient. Is that statistical, or anecdotal? It's counter to my personal driving patterns. Even in moderate congestion my Hyundai gets mileage closer to its "highway" MPG than "city" (when using cruise/distance control).
    - citrin_ru 5y ago
      > Most people's actual highway driving is driving in traffic When I had cars I used them mostly to get out on weekends or for longer trips on vocations. May be I’m an outlier but during the pandemic time work from home is common and this allows to avoid driving in traffic.
    - fomine3 5y ago
      Hybrids mainly helps frequent stop city driving rather than constant highway driving, SUVs aren't good for Cd value that's important for highway driving. Because of that, pure ICE sedans should get relatively good value for highway mileage, but not good for city.
  - Balero 5y ago
    Yes really. That is not a very good benchmark. My Toyota Yaris gets over 50mpg on motorways, so about 50% better.
- Aunche 5y ago
  Most SUVs are intentionally just taller hatchbacks. They're maybe a couple mpg less fuel efficient than a similar sedan, but in return you get a more comfortable feeling car.
  - evilduck 5y ago
    And far more utility than a traditional sedan, I own one of each and my midsized SUV that covers a lot of small truck use cases. I can strap things to the roof racks, I can open the back and lay down the seats and carry small and extended cargo. It has all wheel drive and handles bad weather conditions better than a front wheel drive car. It's higher up and provides better visibility than my sedan. It can handle hauling small trailers. Sedans _typically_ don't come equipped to handle dirty things like outdoor sports and pets while my SUV has rubber floor mats/trays everywhere. For road trips and camping trips I can pack almost twice as much stuff in the SUV and those things are more easy accessed than a car trunk. SUVs existing _prevent_ me from buying a small to midsized truck so to me the view is "look at the efficiency gained compared to the Ranger or Tacoma" instead of "look at how inefficient the Outback or Escape is compared to a Civic".
    - YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
      That's when you realize that there are station wagons with better mpg more utility and your head explodes.
      - evilduck 5y ago
        I'm not ignorant of them but there simply aren't that many wagon options on the market new or used and peak MPG isn't the only metric for purchasing a vehicle.
        YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
        Your post seemed pretty ignorant of other choices besides SUVs and trucks. Mercedes has 6 station wagons/shooting brakes, VW has 4, BMW has 4, Toyota has 5, Hyundai has 4, Kia has 3, Honda got 5 every big car manufacture has at least 3 station wagons in their portfolio. I know there are more SUVs because of the SUV hype in the last years but stating that there are no options on the market is just not true.
nyokodo 5y ago
> The Silverado and the F-150 are the only 2 cars in the top 15 best-selling cars in the US which are particularly fuel inefficient. Sure, however the F-150 was by far the biggest selling vehicle at least up until 2019. Over 3 times as many sold as the second most popular vehicle.
- SkyPuncher 5y ago
  My father's F-150 is _more_ fuel efficient than my 4-cylinder crossover - both in the mid-20's for mpg. In order to get a meaningful reduction in consumption, you need to be driving a sedan or coupe. ---- Many of the bigger vehicles have unnecessarily large engines. However, that's not necessarily true across the board.
  - mint2 5y ago
    A Forster or outback is not a coupe or sedan and the forester mpg is 33 highway.
  - xattt 5y ago
    Best of both worlds of capacity and fuel economy is a station wagon. With the Golf Sportwagen (EU name Golf Variant) off the market in North America now, it leaves Volvos and Subarus as the only option. I predict that in the next decade, station wagons will get rediscovered as manufacturers try to maximize range and reduce battery volume as electrification marches on. Edit: forgot about Subarus
    - tssva 5y ago
      Isn't the Subaru Outback still a station wagon even if they try to disguise it with crossover inspired body panels.
      - raydev 5y ago
        It has quite a bit of ground clearance despite it's low profile. It's higher off the ground than more popular models like the CR-V, RAV4, Highlander, etc.
nradov 5y ago
Some Ford F-150 models get 25 mpg combined fuel economy. That's pretty good. At that rate a typical owner will spend only a few hundred dollars per year extra on fuel compared to a smaller car. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=43614 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=43614

coolso 5y ago

> Now, suddenly, everyone is shocked, shocked that oil prices have gone back up. We also had ten years worth of truck and SUV purchases prior to inauguration day early this year, and I recall everyone paying almost a dollar and a half less per gallon during that time period.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

rsj_hn 5y ago

> The shortsightedness of people is amazing: since the '70s, when oil prices go down, people reliably buy wasteful and large cars. Then they go up, and people reliably do the opposite. You don't want people to respond to economic incentives? That means there is no point to adding gas taxes to incentivize fuel efficiency - or do you believe that people only respond to increasing gas prices and not decreasing prices? How, in your view, would such an asymmetric response function work?

adrianmonk 5y ago

Is that the reason, though? I heard on the news (unfortunately don't remember where) that oil production decreased when people were driving less, then as people resumed driving, production didn't increase as fast as demand. Which would make sense to me because there have been a ton of situations where some pandemic event has caused some previously generally stable thing to shift (up or down) to some new level, then we have chaos as other things try to adapt and find a new equilibrium. Then when the pandemic stops forcing that thing to an unusual level, it springs back toward its normal level, and again other things take time to adapt and find an equilibrium. So actually we seem to get two edge-triggered periods of chaos where something shifts from value V1 to V2 (that's one edge trigger) and then shifts back from V2 to V1-ish (the other edge trigger). And if you look at crude oil prices over the last few years, they were lower during 2020 than in previous years. Now they are higher. So that fits the pattern I'm describing.

citrin_ru 5y ago
> Then when the pandemic stops forcing that thing to an unusual level, it springs back toward its normal level, and again other things take time to adapt and find an equilibrium. There will be no stable equilibrium for a long time ahead. Governments around the world continue to introduce lockdowns on a short notice when cases rise and we are nowhere near COVID-restrictions free international travel. Any change in restrictions would change oil demand too.

mint2 5y ago

I was reading car and drivers list of worst mpg vehicles today, not surprisingly pick up trucks are awful. 16mpg highway with giant gas tanks. No wonder people feel the pain when they have to pay like $200 to fill up and be able to drive ~400miles. I don’t have sympathy except for the ones that legitimately use it for work. Otherwise it’s massively wasteful and all that’s different now is they can feel how wasteful their car is.

nerdponx 5y ago

How much does the gas mileage of consumer automobiles in the USA actually affect oil prices?