7 ms·

The talking point only works if has the effect of actually lowering prices DURING the election. he is pulling this trigger way to early if he expects to use it

by syshum 5y ago

The talking point only works if has the effect of actually lowering prices DURING the election. he is pulling this trigger way to early if he expects to use it as a 2022 talking point as any positive price effects this causes will likely be exhausted by then, and he systemic failures of macro economic policies will likely make things much worse by 2022 elections anyway. This is bad all the way around

ericmay 5y ago
> The talking point only works if has the effect of actually lowering prices DURING the election. Well it’ll maybe help the midterms but it will be something to reference during the upcoming election. This stuff plays out over years and no doubt Republicans will bring it up and Biden will say “I released the reserves” and if gas prices go down then he can claim a victory and action. When the Presidential elections happen they reference things during the entire presidency not just like the last 6 months or so.
- JPKab 5y ago
  It's too late already. I get what you were saying but the emotion and anger are going to be what people remember not what he did or said. He's tried to serve two masters and he can't. Either you stick to your guns on making climate change the priority and you accept the fact that the public is going to be pissed at you when energy prices are much higher, or you simply focus on reducing energy prices at the expense of the climate. There is no middle ground on this. He's trying to find one and is going to fail. Prices will not be reduced and opening up the reserve will piss off the environmentalists. Let's be honest here: He doesn't really seem to be all there does he? At moments he is fully lucid and clearly in command but then at others he is asked about the same things he just spoke about a day before and says completely different things that sound like they were cooked up by his advisors. It reminds me of the way George w Bush behaved when he was being manipulated and advised by Karl Rove and company. The one difference is Biden's advanced age has made him come off even weirder. At times he has that behavior of a confused old man who lashes out in anger. Most of my family lives in Virginia and all of them except for my father voted for Biden and then voted for Glenn Youngkin as governor. They are working class people and have developed an increasing contempt for the Democratic party they voted for 12 months ago. They voted for him because they wanted normalcy and he's instead embraced the radicals who advise him. I have both Latino and Filipino in laws, and he has lost all of them. I've been a member of the Democratic party for over 20 years and this man has destroyed the entire brand. He's allowed Florida to be completely taken over by the GOP. He never should have run and the party never should have engineered the primary to cement his victory. He's too old and we all know it even if many of us won't admit it.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    Hey definitely agree or sympathize with a lot of points here. > I've been a member of the Democratic party for over 20 years and this man has destroyed the entire brand Idk if I'd lay the blame solely at his feat, but in my view the incestiuous nature of the Democrats (running both Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden) speaks volumes. There's no doubt in my mind Joe Biden loses the next election no matter who the Republicans run. If the Democrats were smart they'd run someone else.
    - Workaccount2 5y ago
      The idiocy was having Kamala as VP to placate the wokies with her brown skin and female gender, with no mind payed to her past stances and policies.
    - JPKab 5y ago
      I always assumed he was only running for 1 term. The pandemic unfortunately gave the Party elites full justification to hide the extent of Biden's decline from the public by giving a legitimate reason for him to not campaign. Campaigns are exhausting endeavors, and in the past have served as an informal filter to identify those who lack the physical and mental stamina to do the job. I used to do work in the Center for American Progress on a weekly basis. I know a lot of folks high up in the party (I did a lot of work for Obama's campaigns in 2008 and 2012), and let me be clear: NONE OF THEM think he's running again. And I'm talking about over a dozen people I know. If he runs again, it will be a shock to me. They were saying this before he even got elected. In the eyes of the Dem machine, he was always a one term option. They couldn't tell the public that, because like all party machines, they don't like or respect the voters.
    - matwood 5y ago
      Veering way off topic now, but Biden's only hope IMO is if the GOP runs Trump again. The Democrats may coalesce around hate for Trump, but otherwise will likely be crushed in 2024. Also agree with your point about incestuous nature and quite frankly the self-owns Democrats do. Attacking other democrats who aren't woke enough, while the GOP is masterful at uniting the voter base around a couple key issues like abortion and guns (though the GOP has seen a bit of internal divide with Trump). Biden had an EV summit and only invited the top UAW staffed companies leaving out TSLA. Think what you want about TSLAs valuation and Elon, but how can anyone in the US have an EV summit and leave them out? Stuff like this is what sours middle of the road democrat voters. It's like the democrats want to lose elections.
JPKab 5y ago
Yes it is. To put this in perspective as far as it's futility, in 2019 the United States was producing over 12 million barrels of oil a DAY. Opening up strategic reserves to reduce fuel prices undermines whatever reasoning he had to halt all new oil and gas leases on Federal land. My neighbor, a welder in the natural gas industry, was laid off early this year due to the freeze on new leases. Biden just does whatever his team tells him to do that minute. I voted for him, but I've never in my life felt more regret for voting for someone. He was supposed to be a moderate Democrat which is what I've always voted for. He's a radical but with less conviction. The team around him oscillate between ivory tower detachment and radical activism that is out of touch with the public. As a result he's going to undergo a policy which will succeed only in making the US less prepared for a disaster requiring the reserve. Fuel prices won't really be dented much. CO2 emissions will still go into the atmosphere so nobody wins except for activists who think it's okay if oil comes from another place but not from here. And my neighbor across the street is still out of work when there are numerous wildcatters who could employ him if they could start drilling with the now high prices making them very profitable. They can't due to the lease freeze and he's still out of work. And the CO2 is still going into the atmosphere one way or another. All of it is just theater to please radical activists like my father who never heard a MSNBC talking point he didn't parrot.
- ericd 5y ago
  While I’m disappointed that we’re opening up the strategic reserve, and I wish your neighbors weren’t out of work, the rest of what you’re complaining about all sounds sensible to me. To continue to maintain the status quo is frankly suicidal. Oil and gas prices should be much higher than they are. The current cost to remove the CO2 from a gallon of gas using direct air capture is something like $6-9. It will be a painful realignment, but there’s no way people will reorganize in the ways that they must if gas remains at $2-3/gallon.
  - syshum 5y ago
    People like you are frankly insane if you think the public will accept $9/gal gas (and the insane inflation of all goods that will cause) I bet you also proclaim the desire to help the poor as well, never understanding that your policies are very regressive and the "pain" you talk about is literal starvation for thousands of American families due to these terrible economic policies You want to ensure Democrats never enter office again, have them promote $9/gal gas as a goal of their policies. That is with out even touching the fact that it would really do nothing for the climate as India, China, etc simply make up the difference while US Living standards drop, and the US ceases to be a Economic Power. Holy cow I could not think any one could be that out of touch
lenkite 5y ago
The Biden administration is also backing off on drilling bans on offshore/federal lands and begun to hastily approve pipelines. They have now realised the basic economic principle that lack of supply with increasing demand causes a price surge. All the anti-oil & gas stuff that they announced with great fanfare is being quietly reversed. It will take several months but I guess Oil prices should be sorted by 2022 elections. (Please note that the US is fully capable of being a net Oil exporter at any time - it usually takes stupid policies to cause such a situation)
- sershe 5y ago
  > The Biden administration is also backing off on drilling bans on offshore/federal lands and begun to hastily approve pipelines. Do you happen to have sources for this? I am asking as a supporter of these policies, but I've never heard of this happening recently. I wanna know what to follow for future reference :)
  - lenkite 5y ago
    This has been in the news lately. Despite multiple attempts by various Democrats to block the Line 3 pipeline in Minnesota, the current administration is going forward with the same. Quite a different stance from when they shutdown the Keystone XL Phase-4 pipeline at the beginning of the year. Biden has also eased out on offshore drilling. (auction for 80 million acres of federal waters in the Gulf of Mexico). * https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-administration-takes-steps-resume-oil-gas-drilling-auctions-2021-08-31/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-administration... * The Line 3 pipeline will be able to carry 760,000 barrels a day of Canadian oil from North Dakota to Wisconsin
- kesselvon 5y ago
  Except none of that is going to affect near or medium term gas prices. The current spike is driven by high global demand and OPEC production cuts during the pandemic. That's why gas prices are rising globally.
- remarkEon 5y ago
  They've also approved an auction for 80 million acres to Oil & Gas companies.[1] I can't find anything about how the auction went, but this seems to be quietly buried in the news cycle. It was the largest auction of this kind in history. [1]https://www.newsweek.com/biden-admin-set-auction-off-over-80-million-acres-offshore-drilling-1649242 https://www.newsweek.com/biden-admin-set-auction-off-over-80...

by syshum 5y ago

ericmay 5y ago

> The talking point only works if has the effect of actually lowering prices DURING the election. Well it’ll maybe help the midterms but it will be something to reference during the upcoming election. This stuff plays out over years and no doubt Republicans will bring it up and Biden will say “I released the reserves” and if gas prices go down then he can claim a victory and action. When the Presidential elections happen they reference things during the entire presidency not just like the last 6 months or so.

JPKab 5y ago
It's too late already. I get what you were saying but the emotion and anger are going to be what people remember not what he did or said. He's tried to serve two masters and he can't. Either you stick to your guns on making climate change the priority and you accept the fact that the public is going to be pissed at you when energy prices are much higher, or you simply focus on reducing energy prices at the expense of the climate. There is no middle ground on this. He's trying to find one and is going to fail. Prices will not be reduced and opening up the reserve will piss off the environmentalists. Let's be honest here: He doesn't really seem to be all there does he? At moments he is fully lucid and clearly in command but then at others he is asked about the same things he just spoke about a day before and says completely different things that sound like they were cooked up by his advisors. It reminds me of the way George w Bush behaved when he was being manipulated and advised by Karl Rove and company. The one difference is Biden's advanced age has made him come off even weirder. At times he has that behavior of a confused old man who lashes out in anger. Most of my family lives in Virginia and all of them except for my father voted for Biden and then voted for Glenn Youngkin as governor. They are working class people and have developed an increasing contempt for the Democratic party they voted for 12 months ago. They voted for him because they wanted normalcy and he's instead embraced the radicals who advise him. I have both Latino and Filipino in laws, and he has lost all of them. I've been a member of the Democratic party for over 20 years and this man has destroyed the entire brand. He's allowed Florida to be completely taken over by the GOP. He never should have run and the party never should have engineered the primary to cement his victory. He's too old and we all know it even if many of us won't admit it.
- ericmay 5y ago
  Hey definitely agree or sympathize with a lot of points here. > I've been a member of the Democratic party for over 20 years and this man has destroyed the entire brand Idk if I'd lay the blame solely at his feat, but in my view the incestiuous nature of the Democrats (running both Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden) speaks volumes. There's no doubt in my mind Joe Biden loses the next election no matter who the Republicans run. If the Democrats were smart they'd run someone else.
  - Workaccount2 5y ago
    The idiocy was having Kamala as VP to placate the wokies with her brown skin and female gender, with no mind payed to her past stances and policies.
  - JPKab 5y ago
    I always assumed he was only running for 1 term. The pandemic unfortunately gave the Party elites full justification to hide the extent of Biden's decline from the public by giving a legitimate reason for him to not campaign. Campaigns are exhausting endeavors, and in the past have served as an informal filter to identify those who lack the physical and mental stamina to do the job. I used to do work in the Center for American Progress on a weekly basis. I know a lot of folks high up in the party (I did a lot of work for Obama's campaigns in 2008 and 2012), and let me be clear: NONE OF THEM think he's running again. And I'm talking about over a dozen people I know. If he runs again, it will be a shock to me. They were saying this before he even got elected. In the eyes of the Dem machine, he was always a one term option. They couldn't tell the public that, because like all party machines, they don't like or respect the voters.
  - matwood 5y ago
    Veering way off topic now, but Biden's only hope IMO is if the GOP runs Trump again. The Democrats may coalesce around hate for Trump, but otherwise will likely be crushed in 2024. Also agree with your point about incestuous nature and quite frankly the self-owns Democrats do. Attacking other democrats who aren't woke enough, while the GOP is masterful at uniting the voter base around a couple key issues like abortion and guns (though the GOP has seen a bit of internal divide with Trump). Biden had an EV summit and only invited the top UAW staffed companies leaving out TSLA. Think what you want about TSLAs valuation and Elon, but how can anyone in the US have an EV summit and leave them out? Stuff like this is what sours middle of the road democrat voters. It's like the democrats want to lose elections.

JPKab 5y ago

Yes it is. To put this in perspective as far as it's futility, in 2019 the United States was producing over 12 million barrels of oil a DAY. Opening up strategic reserves to reduce fuel prices undermines whatever reasoning he had to halt all new oil and gas leases on Federal land. My neighbor, a welder in the natural gas industry, was laid off early this year due to the freeze on new leases. Biden just does whatever his team tells him to do that minute. I voted for him, but I've never in my life felt more regret for voting for someone. He was supposed to be a moderate Democrat which is what I've always voted for. He's a radical but with less conviction. The team around him oscillate between ivory tower detachment and radical activism that is out of touch with the public. As a result he's going to undergo a policy which will succeed only in making the US less prepared for a disaster requiring the reserve. Fuel prices won't really be dented much. CO2 emissions will still go into the atmosphere so nobody wins except for activists who think it's okay if oil comes from another place but not from here. And my neighbor across the street is still out of work when there are numerous wildcatters who could employ him if they could start drilling with the now high prices making them very profitable. They can't due to the lease freeze and he's still out of work. And the CO2 is still going into the atmosphere one way or another. All of it is just theater to please radical activists like my father who never heard a MSNBC talking point he didn't parrot.

ericd 5y ago
While I’m disappointed that we’re opening up the strategic reserve, and I wish your neighbors weren’t out of work, the rest of what you’re complaining about all sounds sensible to me. To continue to maintain the status quo is frankly suicidal. Oil and gas prices should be much higher than they are. The current cost to remove the CO2 from a gallon of gas using direct air capture is something like $6-9. It will be a painful realignment, but there’s no way people will reorganize in the ways that they must if gas remains at $2-3/gallon.
- syshum 5y ago
  People like you are frankly insane if you think the public will accept $9/gal gas (and the insane inflation of all goods that will cause) I bet you also proclaim the desire to help the poor as well, never understanding that your policies are very regressive and the "pain" you talk about is literal starvation for thousands of American families due to these terrible economic policies You want to ensure Democrats never enter office again, have them promote $9/gal gas as a goal of their policies. That is with out even touching the fact that it would really do nothing for the climate as India, China, etc simply make up the difference while US Living standards drop, and the US ceases to be a Economic Power. Holy cow I could not think any one could be that out of touch

lenkite 5y ago

The Biden administration is also backing off on drilling bans on offshore/federal lands and begun to hastily approve pipelines. They have now realised the basic economic principle that lack of supply with increasing demand causes a price surge. All the anti-oil & gas stuff that they announced with great fanfare is being quietly reversed. It will take several months but I guess Oil prices should be sorted by 2022 elections. (Please note that the US is fully capable of being a net Oil exporter at any time - it usually takes stupid policies to cause such a situation)

sershe 5y ago
> The Biden administration is also backing off on drilling bans on offshore/federal lands and begun to hastily approve pipelines. Do you happen to have sources for this? I am asking as a supporter of these policies, but I've never heard of this happening recently. I wanna know what to follow for future reference :)
- lenkite 5y ago
  This has been in the news lately. Despite multiple attempts by various Democrats to block the Line 3 pipeline in Minnesota, the current administration is going forward with the same. Quite a different stance from when they shutdown the Keystone XL Phase-4 pipeline at the beginning of the year. Biden has also eased out on offshore drilling. (auction for 80 million acres of federal waters in the Gulf of Mexico). * https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-administration-takes-steps-resume-oil-gas-drilling-auctions-2021-08-31/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-administration... * The Line 3 pipeline will be able to carry 760,000 barrels a day of Canadian oil from North Dakota to Wisconsin
kesselvon 5y ago
Except none of that is going to affect near or medium term gas prices. The current spike is driven by high global demand and OPEC production cuts during the pandemic. That's why gas prices are rising globally.
remarkEon 5y ago
They've also approved an auction for 80 million acres to Oil & Gas companies.[1] I can't find anything about how the auction went, but this seems to be quietly buried in the news cycle. It was the largest auction of this kind in history. [1]https://www.newsweek.com/biden-admin-set-auction-off-over-80-million-acres-offshore-drilling-1649242 https://www.newsweek.com/biden-admin-set-auction-off-over-80...