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Obviously there is a story behind this ("the Core Team placing themselves unaccountable to anyone but themselves"), but it's not entirely evident from the PR it

Obviously there is a story behind this ("the Core Team placing themselves unaccountable to anyone but themselves"), but it's not entirely evident from the PR itself what actions led down to this happening. I guess somewhere a Core Team member broke the Code of Conduct but the deed went unpunished? I was expecting some references or links to where this actually happened, but couldn't find anything. Anyone know what happened for this action to be taken by the moderation team? Not part of the general Rust community, just an outsider, so maybe I'm missing something obvious.

willvarfar 5y ago
They explicitly say they are not saying: > In this message, we have avoided airing specific grievances beyond unaccountability. We've chosen to maintain discretion and confidentiality. We recommend that the broader Rust community and the future Mod Team exercise extreme skepticism of any statements by the Core Team (or members thereof) claiming to illuminate the situation. With the earlier bit about the Core Team not having to adhere to the Code of Conduct, it could mean something awful has happened and a Rust Core Member is above justice or pressuring the mod team’s investigation?
- capableweb 5y ago
  Which is a pity. I always saw the Rust organization as one that acted in public and with transparency, I guess that's why I expected something more clear instead of a resignation of a full team without any further clarification about why. But, of course up to them what they feel comfortable sharing with the public, if it's something that has to stay private I guess that's the way it will be.
  - DominikD 5y ago
    There are always types of events that are not suitable for public discourse (pretty much any form of harassment or abuse, where victims are still subject to pressure or were yet unable to process what happened falls into this category). I have no insight into what happened but it's not hard for me to imagine what could prompt moderation team to resign w/o disclosing specific instances.
    - sambe 5y ago
      Right. It may also be possible that there is some hope of this action restoring normality. i.e. as a result of this protest, the Core Team become more accountable. At that point, I assume the specific incident(s) may be dealt with according to the Code of Conduct, which may or may not involve transparency. Either way, it could be premature and possibly prejudicial to air those now.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
simion314 5y ago
Maybe is better that no single action is emphasized or a single person and focus on the actual problem, the fact that there might be a group that is above the laws/rules and possible solutions. Edit: I think if some action will be made public then everyone will focus on debating why that action was correct/incorrect , then a lot of mostly politics dirt will be thrown around etc.
- notreallyserio 5y ago
  Without knowing exactly what went wrong it won't be possible for the community to know if their changes have gone far enough (or too far) to address the actual problem. This stinks. I wonder if the moderators are concerned they'll be found culpable as well, if the problem is revealed.
  - pavel_lishin 5y ago
    Being a moderator is a thankless job, and when you don't have any power to do that job, it also becomes soul-sucking. I don't think the moderators are concerned about culpability. I think they're concerned that what appears to be an internal debate is going to get dragged out for months on end, in public, with all context loss, and with even less ability on their part to do anything useful or constructive. If I were in their position, I would very likely do the same thing and try to learn some lessons and move on with my life.
- capableweb 5y ago
  > focus on the actual problem, the fact that there might be a group that is above the laws/rules and possible solutions I just find it hard to understand on how you are suppose to see if the group is above the rules or how you can find any possible solutions, when what is supposed to have exemplified the problem is kept in the dark.
  - simion314 5y ago
    Probably by the rules, say if the existing rules have exceptions for the core team so making this core team above the existing laws.
ComodoHacker 5y ago
I just hope it's not about either something silly (like tabs vs spaces) or something important but unrelated (like BLM).
xondono 5y ago
Honestly speaking, the fact that they are not giving any details makes me think that it’s either something minor (but sides were taken) or it’s something political and divisive. One would assume that the Mod team would be the first to air something egregious. The fact that they aren’t tells me they don’t like the optics of the issue and they’d rather stay silent.

willvarfar 5y ago

They explicitly say they are not saying: > In this message, we have avoided airing specific grievances beyond unaccountability. We've chosen to maintain discretion and confidentiality. We recommend that the broader Rust community and the future Mod Team exercise extreme skepticism of any statements by the Core Team (or members thereof) claiming to illuminate the situation. With the earlier bit about the Core Team not having to adhere to the Code of Conduct, it could mean something awful has happened and a Rust Core Member is above justice or pressuring the mod team’s investigation?

capableweb 5y ago
Which is a pity. I always saw the Rust organization as one that acted in public and with transparency, I guess that's why I expected something more clear instead of a resignation of a full team without any further clarification about why. But, of course up to them what they feel comfortable sharing with the public, if it's something that has to stay private I guess that's the way it will be.
- DominikD 5y ago
  There are always types of events that are not suitable for public discourse (pretty much any form of harassment or abuse, where victims are still subject to pressure or were yet unable to process what happened falls into this category). I have no insight into what happened but it's not hard for me to imagine what could prompt moderation team to resign w/o disclosing specific instances.
  - sambe 5y ago
    Right. It may also be possible that there is some hope of this action restoring normality. i.e. as a result of this protest, the Core Team become more accountable. At that point, I assume the specific incident(s) may be dealt with according to the Code of Conduct, which may or may not involve transparency. Either way, it could be premature and possibly prejudicial to air those now.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

simion314 5y ago

Maybe is better that no single action is emphasized or a single person and focus on the actual problem, the fact that there might be a group that is above the laws/rules and possible solutions. Edit: I think if some action will be made public then everyone will focus on debating why that action was correct/incorrect , then a lot of mostly politics dirt will be thrown around etc.

notreallyserio 5y ago
Without knowing exactly what went wrong it won't be possible for the community to know if their changes have gone far enough (or too far) to address the actual problem. This stinks. I wonder if the moderators are concerned they'll be found culpable as well, if the problem is revealed.
- pavel_lishin 5y ago
  Being a moderator is a thankless job, and when you don't have any power to do that job, it also becomes soul-sucking. I don't think the moderators are concerned about culpability. I think they're concerned that what appears to be an internal debate is going to get dragged out for months on end, in public, with all context loss, and with even less ability on their part to do anything useful or constructive. If I were in their position, I would very likely do the same thing and try to learn some lessons and move on with my life.
capableweb 5y ago
> focus on the actual problem, the fact that there might be a group that is above the laws/rules and possible solutions I just find it hard to understand on how you are suppose to see if the group is above the rules or how you can find any possible solutions, when what is supposed to have exemplified the problem is kept in the dark.
- simion314 5y ago
  Probably by the rules, say if the existing rules have exceptions for the core team so making this core team above the existing laws.

ComodoHacker 5y ago

I just hope it's not about either something silly (like tabs vs spaces) or something important but unrelated (like BLM).

xondono 5y ago

Honestly speaking, the fact that they are not giving any details makes me think that it’s either something minor (but sides were taken) or it’s something political and divisive. One would assume that the Mod team would be the first to air something egregious. The fact that they aren’t tells me they don’t like the optics of the issue and they’d rather stay silent.