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Ask HN: I purchased a domain and now the registry wants to take it back
I purchased a very nice .io domain 2 days ago and I received an email from my registar today saying there was a bug in the registry and that the domain should not have been available so they are going to cancel my registration.
Right now I own the domain. What can I do? Is it okay for registries to do this? Does it happen often?
Thanks!
- throw8932894 5y agoDo not register domains on some banana islands (IO is for Indian Ocean). With ".com" or national domain you would have a chance at court.
- slater 5y agoCan you transfer it to a different registry?
- forty 5y agoThe registry is the .io registry so it's bound to the domain (so no) I might be able to transfer it to another registar, but I'm not sure it would help (the registar is Gandi and I trust them)
- herpderperator 5y agoCareful with Gandi: https://www.theregister.com/2020/01/09/gandi_loses_customer_data/ https://www.theregister.com/2020/01/09/gandi_loses_customer_... Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22001822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22001822
- forty 5y agoUPDATE: that's it, the registry did take the domain back. As I expected, they took domain for themselves... Whois says: This name is reserved by the Registry in accordance with ICANN Policy. >>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2021-11-20T13:42:39Z <<< :(
- bitxbitxbitcoin 5y agoThis is part and parcel of participating in the centralized domain name system.
- forty 5y agoAbsolutely. I'm not screaming that's it's unfair or anything. The good things about centralized systems like this is that there are rules and laws. If the ICANN rule says the registry can do that in this case, then fine, I won't fight. But I would like to make sure it's really the case.
- PragmaticPulp 5y agoThis is hardly a typical domain registration experience. Would be truly unfortunate if a hypothetical decentralized alternative had a similar bug that let someone else register and already-owned domain, as that bug would likely invalidate the entire structure of the registration and bring the whole system down as people exploited the vulnerability to steal every possible domain in a decentralized manner. At least this centralized solution can fix it and adapt.
- tmaly 5y agoI think it would be a good use of blockchain to find a way to solve this centralized control. The prices for a domain border on extortion.
- convolvatron 5y agothis is part and parcel of having the ICANN model with competition between for-profit registries. Jon Postel wouldn't have been so mean.
- wyrm 5y agoIf they screwed up somehow, they're kind of obligated to fix it. Otherwise, they just stole somebody else's domain and let you register it. I would be a little skeptical. Make sure that the email really is from your registrar. Also, it's likely that "do nothing" is your best course of action, in any case. If the email is legitimate, there's nothing you can do to stop them. If it's a scam of some kind, you avoid increasing your exposure to risk.
- forty 5y agoThe thing I'm wondering is whether the registry is not trying to get the domain back for them (which would be possible given the domain). I cannot find any trace of the domain on the internet, so at least I don't think it was used. I don't know if there is some kind of way back machine for domain name records / whois ?
- bberenberg 5y agoHave you checked a Whois history tool like https://research.domaintools.com/research/whois-history/ https://research.domaintools.com/research/whois-history/ ?
- forty 5y agoInteresting thanks. This does say there was activity on this domain before
- robalfonso 5y ago2 Days ago management of .io registry was transfered from Afilias to Donuts (Due to an acquisition). It is likely that during that window you registered the domain and they are now cleaning up the issue. It may be your registrar took your registration and then when they went to actually process it the registry was down, so someone else got it during that period. It could be other things, however, the bottom line is that the domain was probably never yours and there is really not much to do here. It's bad timing and bad handling of a process on your registrars end.
- forty 5y agoAt least right now I control the domain. I think the registry messed up as they allowed my registration, not the registar. Thanks for the info on the migration, that could indeed explain this.
- funnyflamigo 5y agoIf you have control of it you _might_ actually be the one that nabbed it, and somebody else complained they couldn't manage it. If this is the case, under no circumstance tell your registrar you're okay with losing it and dig your heels HARD. Either way you should get a cert for it with the longest expiration you can ASAP while you control it ;)
- robalfonso 5y agoI understand your sentiment here, but should the registry decide the domain is not theirs it will simply not be manageable from the registrar/buyer. All they do is update the management id to the new registrar and the registrant contact of the domain, no intervention is possible. I can tell you I’ve seen legal orders transferring a domain from one registrant to another, if the order has the registry named to take action, the domain kind of just goes poof, sure it’s in your system but you can’t do anything against it.
- CogitoCogito 5y ago
- dutchbrit 5y agoYou technically do not own a domain, but you lease it them. "ICANN's official policy is that domains are not property to be owned. Domain names are registered (rented) by payment of an annual registration fee."
- case 5y ago.io (like all ccTLDs) is not governed by ICANN, fwiw. But your point is valid that domains are essentially registered according to the terms of a probably-long and verbose agreement.
- swalsh 5y agoDomains should be NFT's
- dreyfan 5y agoYeah, then when someone loses or has stolen the keys to that wallet, the domain is forever gone.
- jedberg 5y agoLike how when someone steals your car it's just gone forever? There still exists a legal system in which the NFT could potentially recovered. Yes it's harder with easy cross border theft, but that just means we need better global treaties.
- Sohcahtoa82 5y agoApples and oranges. If your car is stolen, there's a potential for it to be physically found and returned. If someone somehow finds the private key to steal an NFT, they could steal the NFT and then delete the private key for the new address that owns it. At that point, treaties don't matter. The ownership exchange is permanent until someone can derive the private key from the public key, which if someone did, then ALL NFTs could be stolen.
- walrus01 5y agothe entire existence of the .io registry and the people running it, presently making money from it are highly suspicious, it's supposed to be for the benefit and use of the people who lived in what's now called the "british indian ocean territory" in the general area of diego garcia. this is a place from which the natives were evicted by force. I somehow doubt they're getting any financial benefit from it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.io https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.io https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagossians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagossians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Garcia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Garcia as a reminder, ethos capital are the amazing people who tried to "buy" .org a while back https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethos_Capital https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethos_Capital If this doesn't fit the economics textbook definition of Rent Seeking, I don't know what does.
- 1cvmask 5y agoIf the Chinese did this the press would write about the genocide in Diego Garcia etc.... The UN resolution (international norms???) and International Court of Justice (ICJ) is being violated by the UK and US: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-mauritius-un-idUSKCN1SS2CR https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-mauritius-un-idUS...
- walrus01 5y agoPerhaps it should be possible to condemn things like what happened to the Chagossians and what's presently ongoing with the Uyghur people simultaneously
- holduptho 5y agoHang on a second: how is the US violating anything here? You’re roughly saying that the UK’s error transmits to the US because they lawfully leased land to the US that they consider theirs. Of course the US is going to lobby to keep the base, and of course it’s horrific that thousands were forcefully removed to build it (and the US should compensate for that), but any interpretation where the US is in international error here due to Mauritian sovereignty considerations is plainly transparent in its purpose (particularly in a comment that references China off the bat). That’s the UK’s problem. Notice the Mauritian prime minister in the very article you linked only discussed problems with the UK.
- shalomfriss 5y agoI've purchased domains from GoDaddy and they reclaimed them, claiming that they sold them to me in error and that they had already been purchased. This is for multiple domains, within minutes of their release by the way.
- jacquesm 5y agoDon't use GoDaddy, ever.
- zenull 5y agoSay No to Daddy. Just never use NoDaddy. Especially when checking for domain availability. They will show your desired domain to other users later (as alternative domain they may like to purchase). Always check for WHOIS to see if the domain is registered. Privacy respected WHOIS tool -> https://freetools.dev/whois https://freetools.dev/whois
- easrng 5y agohttps://unbuild.blog/2021/10/io/ https://unbuild.blog/2021/10/io/
- igetspam 5y agoI've had this happen during new TLD launches. I owned lap.top for about a day but so did a whole lot of people. I lost that race. You don't own a domain. You rent it and the registrar can take it back. They generally don't, outside of trademark issues, legal problems or race conditions but they can.
- forty 5y agoIn my case I actually own and control the domain (I'm in the whois and my website shows up in the browser)
- rfd4sgmk8u 5y agoNo, you rented it from the registrar. Nobody owns domains, one rents them for the temporary control over NS records. The registrar can take it away at their prerogative.
- forty 5y agoYou mean the registry. If you are going to be pedantic, you should at least be precise ;)
- websap 5y agoTell them you will not be returning it and if they do take away your access you will pursuing legal action. Do you think you could ever convince them by saying hey I saw this domain was available but came back 2 days later and it's not available, can you still get it for me? The answer is unequivocally no. Know your right and defend them against overreach of private entities.
- camelboy 5y agofew days ago, i tried to purchase a domain on godaddy, I didn't buy it as I had to get approval from my manager so I left it in the cart and that time I was using my cellphone. Then after 3 days, I came back to godaddy through my PC and saw that the domain is now premium and they want amount close $3000 . I was kind of shocked. but then on my phone I noticed that item is still in my cart with the 20 dollar pricing, and I purchased, few days later godaddy came back and refund me the 20 dollar and took away the domain. One thing I learned is that never use a registrar search engine as they check domain with high search or interest and they immediately buy it before you.
- 0des 5y agoIs this frontrunning?
- fbanon 5y agoYes, and it's a well-known practice of scummy registrars like godaddy.
- plainnoodles 5y agoIt is! Trading your own account in front of a client's order with knowledge of your client's order is, indeed, frontrunning! However, given domains are not securities and domain registrars are not FINRA members or registered securities broker-dealers, I don't think this is "frontrunning" in the sense that you're used to hearing the word. So who knows if it's even illegal, and even if it is, who knows what recourse anyone has about it, given how quasi-legal and international the ownership of domains is.
- camelboy 5y agoyes, it is. I was thinking taking them to consumer protection court, but I realized it is not worth my time.
- 0des 5y agoSomeone has to take one for the team..
- reginold 5y agoAnyone here familiar with the newly launched Ethereum Name Service (ENS)? All the registrations are handled on the blockchain. Would this error be possible on ENS?
- rfd4sgmk8u 5y agoENS is purely a vanity service, like any other NFT. ENS would not have this problem, however, you might as well write a name on a piece of paper and never show anyone. It is not the same thing. ENS will never be resolvable via the global DNS namespace. Its like a parallel DNS namespace. I don't believe that any blockchain NS will ever marry with the global name resolution namespace. Handshake and Namecoin are alternatives too, and there was non-blockchain thing called NewNet that no longer exists. Globally resolvable names need to have registration details, so when you register "cocacola", Coke can sue you for trademark infringement. They need to be revocable.
- reginold 5y agoAppreciate the perspective on this. When you say "ENS will never be resolvable via the global DNS namespace", is that a technical limitation or something else? I'm curious so learning about how it works (or doesn't!), sounds like you have a lot of experience.
- rfd4sgmk8u 5y agoThere is no reason technical that ENS could not run root .eth servers and have these in the global DNS namespace. It would be a centralized service with decentralized records. I'm saying it wont happen because they wont let it. Its a closed club, and its a big deal when new TLDs get added. Johnny ethereum isn't allowed in.
- reginold 5y agoAh interesting hadn't realized it was a closed club. Heard it was some kind of delegate, DAO but that likely just means those with the money win right?
- crooked-v 5y ago> Right now I own the domain. No, you don't. Read the terms and conditions.
- gzer0 5y agoUnfortunately if you do not fully own your own ICANN registrar, for example, like Facebook [1], then your domain remains in the hands of the registrar; it doesn't matter what your WHOIS states. I've looked into this exact problem because I wanted to know, what it takes to fully and completely own your own domain. The best way is to apply for an ICANN registrar accreditation which entails these requirements [2]: - US$3,500 application fee, which is non-refundable regardless of whether the application is approved, denied, or withdrawn. - US$4,000 yearly accreditation fee due upon approval and each year thereafter. - $70,000 USD in liquid assets In the case of Facebook, they were able to receive an expedited approval since link [1] indicates that their company will not be buying nor selling any domains. It just exists for the sole purpose of owning the domain. Why did Facebook do this, you may ask? Well, social engineering. An Njal.la hosted domain was successfully transferred to Namecheap (through no fault of Njal.la) through forged German Court records [3]. So now, no one can socially engineer the domain away from FB and I suspect the vast majority of these companies. RIP. Looks like I won't be owning my own domain anytime soon. [1] https://registrarsec.com/ https://registrarsec.com/ [2] https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/financials-55-2012-02-25-en https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/financials-55-2012-02-... [3] https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8833/dark-fail-fake-court-order-dark-web-markets https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8833/dark-fail-fake-court-...
- raxi 5y agoFacebook owns at least 2 ICANN registrars: "RegistrarSec" and "RegistrarSafe". Both have the save website and mailing address but there are 2 independent ICANN accreditations. Likely, it is designed to prevent another sort of attack.
- Xorakios 5y agoNobody owns domain names derived from registries, they are merely leased and subject to recapture from either the registry at will, or the registrar with cause. Trademarking the domain name gives you vastly better protection, since even if the registrar/registry takes it back, nobody else can use it, so the incentive for those entities to change their mind on leasing it to you is reduced.