7 ms·

For context, today in the Kyle Rittenhouse trial, the prosecution (ADA Kraus) claimed that he was basically technically illiterate and basically didn't know abo

by cronix 5y ago

For context, today in the Kyle Rittenhouse trial, the prosecution (ADA Kraus) claimed that he was basically technically illiterate and basically didn't know about transcoding, not in as many words. A review of previous video testimony from PBS's live feed showed that he (Kraus) had Handbrake in the directory that he was showing the video from. That's not a normal application one would just have floating around. The backdrop is the defense alleges the prosecution gave the defense a lower resolution copy of the original video that showed about 4x fewer pixels, so they did not have the ability to examine it. The jury has already seen the video and is currently in deliberations. They have asked to view the video again. This whole trial, well, just seems riddled with big time issues. I tried to present this in a non biased way, but I don't think this is a good trial no matter what side you sit on, if any. It's been tainted in several places, even 5th amendment violations numerous times. At a minimum, I think it needs to be tossed out and retried with these evidentiary issues ironed out and with no last minute springing of evidence.

lr4444lr 5y ago
He may have had a forensics person load it on his machine and tell him to just use that app and click play. But your basic point is correct: clearly someone at least halfway knowledgeable worked on that file.
woodruffw 5y ago
> That's not a normal application one would just have floating around. Without addressing the rest of the post: I've seen plenty of non-engineers use Handbrake. In fact, I've seen more than one lawyer use it. It occurs to me that it would actually be pretty common for lawyers to have it installed, particularly if they're reviewing and copying evidence that was delivered to them by DVD or other physical forms.
- schwartzworld 5y ago
  I used handbrake before I was an engineer. Now I use ffmpeg
- vlunkr 5y ago
  Of course you don't have to be an engineer to use it, but if he's really claiming to know nothing about encoding, that's quite the contradiction.
  - panda-giddiness 5y ago
    Is it though? I can easily imagine a non-technical user thinking of HandBrake as "that DVD program" without understanding any of the underlying technical details or (for that matter) any of the encoding options. I mean, HandBrake is pretty simple software if you just stick with the defaults.
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    I don't think that's necessarily the case. In fact, I can very easily see a lawyer clicking the "fast convert" (or similar) checkbox, not realizing that doing so compromises the encoding quality. For all I know, that setting is the default.
    - COGlory 5y ago
      I'm very much on the side that Rittenhouse was defending himself when he pulled the trigger. Furthermore, I think the prosecution has been terrible, and at times, downright malicious (trying to get a mistrial after their start witness flopped, etc). HOWEVER I really do agree with this take. I'm fairly computer literate (sysadmin for a microscopy facility, daily drive Linux, couple years of web development under my belt) and recently spent a non-insignificant amount of time trying to create a video from a bunch of .tif files and embed them into a PowerPoint. It was not simple or easy. Working with video is always an annoying, expensive, black box. Sometimes I'd do things, and it would just come out a blurry mess. Or balloon in file size for no obvious reason.
    - throwawaylinux 5y ago
      But if he did click that button and now is trying to say that the defense might have caused the video to be converted to a lower quality then ignorance is no longer plausible. How many excuses do people have? It seems to be widely acknowledged that prosecutors widely railroad and use unethical and even illegal tactics against defendants and that this is a problem. It also seems to be the idea that black defendants tend to be disproportionately on the receiving end of this behavior and that is a problem. And yet there's astounding difficulty connecting these things. A lot of people I've seen here and all other social media platforms seem to be hoping Kyle gets convicted and the prosecutors are not held to account because he is white and they think a black boy would have been convicted. This is called (racist, but also) cutting off your nose to spite your face. Kyle being sent to jail by unethical prosecutors will not help the next black boy who is unethically prosecuted or wrongfully convicted. Hold them to a high standard. Do not find excuses for them, they must be made to justify their own actions. If they are going to use technology to prosecute somebody and they don't know how the technology works, that is not an excuse it is incompetence and highly unethical at best.
- Angostura 5y ago
  I used to use Handbrake all the time to put videos on my iPhone at appropriate resolution etc. Not exactly obscure
- courtwatcher 5y ago
  The DA was claiming that his hands were clean, that whatever problem the defense had were not the DA's office fault (although he did blame the crime lab at some point). His last attempt at claiming clean hands was that he was too technically incompetent to do so maliciously. But that's BS. Even if he doesn't know what handbrake does, if he uses it he's using it to somehow modify it. that's not allowed defense is allowed the exact copy the DA has. Also, I have a lot of trouble believing that anyone, having used handbrake, hasn't noticed a drop in quality in the video.
heartbreak 5y ago
Thanks for the background. I was first introduced to Handbrake as a tool for archiving DVD content. I think of ffmpeg as the technically savvy way to transcode.
chii 5y ago
> Kyle Rittenhouse trial what is this trial about?
- Supermancho 5y ago
  A 17yo who shot 3 other men (2 dead) with a very large gun, who is claiming self defense, in MN. I'm not sure how this is somehow less accurate than any other synopsis shrug.
- mdoms 5y ago
  A man shot 3 BLM protestors, killing 2. Prosecution argues murder, defense argues self defense. The trial itself is proving somewhat of a Rorschach test for political internet bubbles.
- cronix 5y ago
  I purposefully left it out, but left just enough to google, because the trial itself is a political hotbed and has nothing to do with the technical/court discussion. This will degenerate off-topic quickly.
Steko 5y ago
On r/law they explained it’s a technicians or special trial laptop thats preloaded with software like this.
- courtwatcher 5y ago
  Was it? I was listening on the radio in the car when they were searching for a laptop. I don't remember who gave it to them, but they were instructed to make sure the laptop was clean. Also, I'm not sure that the screenshot is of the jury's laptop. Isn't it Binger's after he turned it around to show something? Either way, doesn't matter. Someone in the DAs office fiddled with the laptop and their laptops are loaded with this software. The DA is responsible for his office. The DA is responsible that the defense didn't get the proper copy.
sneak 5y ago
> the prosecution (ADA Kraus) claimed that he was basically technically illiterate > A review of previous video testimony from PBS's live feed showed that he (Kraus) had Handbrake in the directory that he was showing the video from So someone who is technically illiterate (let's take their claim at face value) has evidence tampering tools visible on their machine? Where's the chain of custody on the original file content?
- jpindar 5y ago
  I've been watching most of this trial. As far as I can tell there is no chain of custody for video, and no one in the courtroom seems to think this is unusual.
  - sneak 5y ago
    It's sort of astounding to me that most people don't believe that prosecutors lie or mislead constantly.
willis936 5y ago
>riddled with big time issues Big-time issues or big time-issues? I read it as the latter initially but I think the former makes more sense. Beyond the speed of the trial is the fact that it is farcical from up, down, and the sides. It should be thrown out the window by spinlaunch.
1shooner 5y ago
So the speculation is that because he had free transcoding software on his desktop, that he understands transcoding?
- ed25519FUUU 5y ago
  The generous explanation is that it’s just a coincidence that he had handbrake installed. The malicious explanation is that he intentionally downgraded the video quality with handbrake (or some other means) before handing over the evidence. Keeping in mind that the video was the only thing shared with Kyle’s lawyer that was not shared via Dropbox, per his lawyer.
  - abernard1 5y ago
    > The malicious explanation is that he intentionally downgraded the video quality with handbrake The problem is that in the trial, the prosecution actually said "Our versions are much clearer". They also used algorithmic enhancements and blowups on the bad copy to show to the court. Here's the link (https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1461034426717122572 https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1461034426717122572) but I remember watching this in the trial and people were commenting on it in realtime. The defense even mentioned they weren't given the copy.
- adamrezich 5y ago
  it was one of only a very few icons on the desktop, including the folders "New Folder", "OpenOffice 4.1.6 (en-US) installation f...", "Temp", and "Final Exhibits", and the shortcuts "Coolmuster Android Backup Manager", "Format Factory", "Handbrake", "MessengerLite", "Person 1 - Chrome", and "Zoom".
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    Maybe I'm missing something, but none of those applications/desktop icons scream "technically savvy" person to me.
    - 5y ago
V__ 5y ago
We used Handbrake at my school. Sure it's a bit more niche but definitely not unusual.
keketi 5y ago
It should be noted that according to the defense's motion for a mistrial[1] there is also a slight difference in the aspect ratio of the two video files. The high quality video is 1920x844 and the low quality video is 480x212. If you divide 1920 by 4, you get 480, which matches the low quality video. If you divide 844 by 4, you get 211, not 212. Rounding to the nearest integer doesn't explain the one pixel difference because both 1920 and 844 are divisible by 4. [1] https://www.scribd.com/document/540381079/211116-Rittenhouse-Motion-Mistrial-3 https://www.scribd.com/document/540381079/211116-Rittenhouse... (page 3)
- sxp 5y ago
  Some video decoders don't like resolutions that aren't multiples of 2, 4, 16, etc. So rounding 211 to 212 is safer since the latter is an even number.
squarefoot 5y ago
One doesn't need to be a transcoding expert to use Handbrake. I'm certainly not one and use it very often as it defaults to optimal settings. I actually made a mistake months ago by changing the defaults which result in having to redo everything from scratch: I found a deal for the entire Star Trek DS9 box set and bought it to save it onto my home NAS so I could watch it with my Kodi based player. I set up Handbrake to convert to 12 bit H265 instead of 10 bit, processed a couple files, tested them OK on the PC and used these settings for all DVDs. Unfortunately only after finishing I learnt that Kodi's player doesn't support 12 bit H265 (or didn't at the time), so I had to do everything from scratch, and that was a huge pile o DVDs to convert again. Had I left the factory settings untouched, it would have worked out of the box.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by cronix 5y ago

lr4444lr 5y ago

He may have had a forensics person load it on his machine and tell him to just use that app and click play. But your basic point is correct: clearly someone at least halfway knowledgeable worked on that file.

woodruffw 5y ago

> That's not a normal application one would just have floating around. Without addressing the rest of the post: I've seen plenty of non-engineers use Handbrake. In fact, I've seen more than one lawyer use it. It occurs to me that it would actually be pretty common for lawyers to have it installed, particularly if they're reviewing and copying evidence that was delivered to them by DVD or other physical forms.

schwartzworld 5y ago
I used handbrake before I was an engineer. Now I use ffmpeg
vlunkr 5y ago
Of course you don't have to be an engineer to use it, but if he's really claiming to know nothing about encoding, that's quite the contradiction.
- panda-giddiness 5y ago
  Is it though? I can easily imagine a non-technical user thinking of HandBrake as "that DVD program" without understanding any of the underlying technical details or (for that matter) any of the encoding options. I mean, HandBrake is pretty simple software if you just stick with the defaults.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  I don't think that's necessarily the case. In fact, I can very easily see a lawyer clicking the "fast convert" (or similar) checkbox, not realizing that doing so compromises the encoding quality. For all I know, that setting is the default.
  - COGlory 5y ago
    I'm very much on the side that Rittenhouse was defending himself when he pulled the trigger. Furthermore, I think the prosecution has been terrible, and at times, downright malicious (trying to get a mistrial after their start witness flopped, etc). HOWEVER I really do agree with this take. I'm fairly computer literate (sysadmin for a microscopy facility, daily drive Linux, couple years of web development under my belt) and recently spent a non-insignificant amount of time trying to create a video from a bunch of .tif files and embed them into a PowerPoint. It was not simple or easy. Working with video is always an annoying, expensive, black box. Sometimes I'd do things, and it would just come out a blurry mess. Or balloon in file size for no obvious reason.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    But if he did click that button and now is trying to say that the defense might have caused the video to be converted to a lower quality then ignorance is no longer plausible. How many excuses do people have? It seems to be widely acknowledged that prosecutors widely railroad and use unethical and even illegal tactics against defendants and that this is a problem. It also seems to be the idea that black defendants tend to be disproportionately on the receiving end of this behavior and that is a problem. And yet there's astounding difficulty connecting these things. A lot of people I've seen here and all other social media platforms seem to be hoping Kyle gets convicted and the prosecutors are not held to account because he is white and they think a black boy would have been convicted. This is called (racist, but also) cutting off your nose to spite your face. Kyle being sent to jail by unethical prosecutors will not help the next black boy who is unethically prosecuted or wrongfully convicted. Hold them to a high standard. Do not find excuses for them, they must be made to justify their own actions. If they are going to use technology to prosecute somebody and they don't know how the technology works, that is not an excuse it is incompetence and highly unethical at best.
Angostura 5y ago
I used to use Handbrake all the time to put videos on my iPhone at appropriate resolution etc. Not exactly obscure
courtwatcher 5y ago
The DA was claiming that his hands were clean, that whatever problem the defense had were not the DA's office fault (although he did blame the crime lab at some point). His last attempt at claiming clean hands was that he was too technically incompetent to do so maliciously. But that's BS. Even if he doesn't know what handbrake does, if he uses it he's using it to somehow modify it. that's not allowed defense is allowed the exact copy the DA has. Also, I have a lot of trouble believing that anyone, having used handbrake, hasn't noticed a drop in quality in the video.

heartbreak 5y ago

Thanks for the background. I was first introduced to Handbrake as a tool for archiving DVD content. I think of ffmpeg as the technically savvy way to transcode.

chii 5y ago

> Kyle Rittenhouse trial what is this trial about?

Supermancho 5y ago
A 17yo who shot 3 other men (2 dead) with a very large gun, who is claiming self defense, in MN. I'm not sure how this is somehow less accurate than any other synopsis shrug.
mdoms 5y ago
A man shot 3 BLM protestors, killing 2. Prosecution argues murder, defense argues self defense. The trial itself is proving somewhat of a Rorschach test for political internet bubbles.
cronix 5y ago
I purposefully left it out, but left just enough to google, because the trial itself is a political hotbed and has nothing to do with the technical/court discussion. This will degenerate off-topic quickly.

Steko 5y ago

On r/law they explained it’s a technicians or special trial laptop thats preloaded with software like this.

courtwatcher 5y ago
Was it? I was listening on the radio in the car when they were searching for a laptop. I don't remember who gave it to them, but they were instructed to make sure the laptop was clean. Also, I'm not sure that the screenshot is of the jury's laptop. Isn't it Binger's after he turned it around to show something? Either way, doesn't matter. Someone in the DAs office fiddled with the laptop and their laptops are loaded with this software. The DA is responsible for his office. The DA is responsible that the defense didn't get the proper copy.

sneak 5y ago

> the prosecution (ADA Kraus) claimed that he was basically technically illiterate > A review of previous video testimony from PBS's live feed showed that he (Kraus) had Handbrake in the directory that he was showing the video from So someone who is technically illiterate (let's take their claim at face value) has evidence tampering tools visible on their machine? Where's the chain of custody on the original file content?

jpindar 5y ago
I've been watching most of this trial. As far as I can tell there is no chain of custody for video, and no one in the courtroom seems to think this is unusual.
- sneak 5y ago
  It's sort of astounding to me that most people don't believe that prosecutors lie or mislead constantly.

willis936 5y ago

>riddled with big time issues Big-time issues or big time-issues? I read it as the latter initially but I think the former makes more sense. Beyond the speed of the trial is the fact that it is farcical from up, down, and the sides. It should be thrown out the window by spinlaunch.

1shooner 5y ago

So the speculation is that because he had free transcoding software on his desktop, that he understands transcoding?

ed25519FUUU 5y ago
The generous explanation is that it’s just a coincidence that he had handbrake installed. The malicious explanation is that he intentionally downgraded the video quality with handbrake (or some other means) before handing over the evidence. Keeping in mind that the video was the only thing shared with Kyle’s lawyer that was not shared via Dropbox, per his lawyer.
- abernard1 5y ago
  > The malicious explanation is that he intentionally downgraded the video quality with handbrake The problem is that in the trial, the prosecution actually said "Our versions are much clearer". They also used algorithmic enhancements and blowups on the bad copy to show to the court. Here's the link (https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1461034426717122572 https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1461034426717122572) but I remember watching this in the trial and people were commenting on it in realtime. The defense even mentioned they weren't given the copy.
adamrezich 5y ago
it was one of only a very few icons on the desktop, including the folders "New Folder", "OpenOffice 4.1.6 (en-US) installation f...", "Temp", and "Final Exhibits", and the shortcuts "Coolmuster Android Backup Manager", "Format Factory", "Handbrake", "MessengerLite", "Person 1 - Chrome", and "Zoom".
- woodruffw 5y ago
  Maybe I'm missing something, but none of those applications/desktop icons scream "technically savvy" person to me.
  - 5y ago

V__ 5y ago

We used Handbrake at my school. Sure it's a bit more niche but definitely not unusual.

keketi 5y ago

It should be noted that according to the defense's motion for a mistrial[1] there is also a slight difference in the aspect ratio of the two video files. The high quality video is 1920x844 and the low quality video is 480x212. If you divide 1920 by 4, you get 480, which matches the low quality video. If you divide 844 by 4, you get 211, not 212. Rounding to the nearest integer doesn't explain the one pixel difference because both 1920 and 844 are divisible by 4. [1] https://www.scribd.com/document/540381079/211116-Rittenhouse-Motion-Mistrial-3 https://www.scribd.com/document/540381079/211116-Rittenhouse... (page 3)

sxp 5y ago
Some video decoders don't like resolutions that aren't multiples of 2, 4, 16, etc. So rounding 211 to 212 is safer since the latter is an even number.

squarefoot 5y ago

One doesn't need to be a transcoding expert to use Handbrake. I'm certainly not one and use it very often as it defaults to optimal settings. I actually made a mistake months ago by changing the defaults which result in having to redo everything from scratch: I found a deal for the entire Star Trek DS9 box set and bought it to save it onto my home NAS so I could watch it with my Kodi based player. I set up Handbrake to convert to 12 bit H265 instead of 10 bit, processed a couple files, tested them OK on the PC and used these settings for all DVDs. Unfortunately only after finishing I learnt that Kodi's player doesn't support 12 bit H265 (or didn't at the time), so I had to do everything from scratch, and that was a huge pile o DVDs to convert again. Had I left the factory settings untouched, it would have worked out of the box.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]