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Based on all the dumbfounded and cynical replies, I don't think people understand why this is happening. Anybody saying this is a response to recent anti-trust

Based on all the dumbfounded and cynical replies, I don't think people understand why this is happening. Anybody saying this is a response to recent anti-trust headlines doesn't understand how a company the size of Apple works. When an announcement like this is made, it means this program has been in the works for YEARS. My guess, this is all part of Apple's slow shift towards a recurring revenue services model, and a better integration of customer & business incentives. It used to be, the worst thing that could happen to Apple was the customer stops upgrading their phone. But now, when the revenue growth is coming from services instead of hardware, it doesn't pay to piss off customers by making them buy a new phone a year early because the battery died. The worst thing that can happen now under this new business model is the customer leaves the ecosystem or buys less services because they aren't happy with the hardware. Hence why you're seeing Apple do things they never would have before. Capitulating on the MacBook Pro and rolling back on the Touch Bar, opening up to more repairability, etc. etc.

DennisAleynikov 5y ago
it's incredible whether ulterior motives were present or not. devices aren't more secure if you literally repair them with official parts, the guides shouldn't be compiled by 3rd parties
snowwrestler 5y ago
I don’t think it is related to antitrust, but I do think it is related to the growing “right to repair” advocacy. The reason I think that, is that Apple devices have always been repairable! By Apple. No one needed to “buy a new phone a year early because the battery died” if they were willing to hand their phone and $99 to Apple. I got the battery repaired in 2 different iPhones and it worked great (and was less expensive and wasteful than a whole new phone). I also got the screen repaired on one of those phones. So look at what is new here. It’s not “an iPhone can be repaired.” What is new is that Apple will help me do the repair myself.
- enos_feedler 5y ago
  Of course it is related to "right to repair" advocacy. This is the basic function of a company listening to feedback and making changes. As long as it doesn't conflict with the core values of the company, there is no reason to not add this. I love how this empowers individuals to repair themselves, or develop the skills to do this for friends, family and eventually open a shop in their local community. Apple is using their powerful iPhone economy to create local commerce. Pretty cool.
- Tempest1981 5y ago
  It's actually not too expensive, $49 or $69. Cheaper than some non-Apple shops: https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/battery-power https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/battery-powe...
  - hmrr 5y ago
    It’s really cheap when you add the risks. Apple replaced the battery in my 6s about three years back and it didn’t work afterwards. If this was an independent phone shop they’d give it back and make an excuse or try and sell you another hooky handset. Apple gave me a brand new untouched 6s handset instead.
    - kshacker 5y ago
      Been there done that. Went in for a battery replacement, on pickup they said they could not fix it as is, and gave me a new phone. Probably was a 6/6S for me too.
    - wiredfool 5y ago
      Me too. And then within 2 days I put a deep scratch in the screen.
- pembrook 5y ago
  > I don’t think it is related to antitrust, but I do think it is related to the growing “right to repair” advocacy. That's my point. The customers shouted, and Apple actually listened this time. And this has been happening more lately. Why? It's because an exec at "old" Apple would say: "sure, the customers want to be able to repair easily, but won't this hurt our revenue growth and my bonus next year? What if they stop upgrading hardware as often?" An exec at "new" Apple is now incentivized to think: "well, even if they keep their hardware longer, it doesn't matter. Because the customer will still be in the ecosystem and we can get them to spend more via Apple Pay, iCloud, Apple TV+, News+, Advertising, App Store, etc. etc. and all these new services!"
  - chewbacha 5y ago
    Thats a good spin by the exec, but it’s more like “the people shouted, governments listened, began legislation, apple protected themselves by getting ahead of it” I don’t really think that this was a direct reaction to customer demands but a forced hand with good spin.
    - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
      It also leaves them open to make it still a scam. Independent repair shops: Apple won't sell us parts so you have to pay them $69 for a repair we could do for $49 or you could do yourself for $20 because it's really $20 in parts and $29 in labor. Apple: Okay, here's the part you wanted, you can have it for $59 or have us do it for $69. No need for any new laws.
    - KennyBlanken 5y ago
      Yep, this is entirely "we can give you the right to repair your device. You don't need that silly law." The law is about giving consumers and repair shops the right to repair, but Apple is pretending that "right to repair" is just about giving individuals the ability to repair their stuff. It's especially safe for Apple because Joe Q Public is not going to even remotely think about DIY'ing this, and they get to charge a price that assures they don't lose money on it. The parts are cheap, the instructions are cheap. It's the labor that is what is expensive.
- TheBill 5y ago
  Just did this with my 10, $74.95 for a new battery, spent ~2 hours down the street curating a newsletter at a bar I like. It was a similar experience when I needed the battery in my MacBook Air replaced but closer to 100.
a2tech 5y ago
No clearly this is Apple responding to Louis Rossmann complaining on Youtube and nothing more. Gigantic companies almost always make policy decisions based on influencers on Youtube.
- TaylorAlexander 5y ago
  Just to be clear, Louis Rossmann has raised millions of dollars in funding for his Right to Repair efforts and has hired lobbyists to push forward repair legislation in something like 15 states. He is not just some YouTube guy he is a hard working advocate with 1.7 million followers and a legal campaign with teeth.
  - ksec 5y ago
    And to the point Apple ( or representative of Apple ) has to one way or another threaten the state along with other measures. Louis has documented many of these tactics in his video. I think Apple stopped ( or changed their tone ) sometimes after all the bad press targeting them.
ggoo 5y ago
This has been in the works for years, it was just only available to apple certified repair people. Tbh, this seems more like a rebrand of their existing program to me.
ActorNightly 5y ago
>When an announcement like this is made, it means this program has been in the works for YEARS. Doesn't mean its wasn't spurred by right-to-repair movement. Its not like Apple was blindsided by it. > But now, when the revenue growth is coming from services instead of hardware, it doesn't pay to piss off customers by making them buy a new phone a year early because the battery died. I don't agree. Apples model has always been to produce sleek hardware, with every new release causing lines in front of physical stores. Nothing has changed since then. Furthermore, the repair through Apple services was always somehwhat of a money grab, with occurrences of pricey repairs and not-needed services. It be interesting to see what the pricing on these kits are. Since Apple has been rolling out hardware with id, that prevents it from working with non authorized hardware, it almost seems like its trying to put the 3d party repair shops out of business, and this is just filling the void while fulfilling right-to-repair requirements.
thrwn_frthr_awy 5y ago
That was the most frustrating part about reading HN while working at Apple. Changing something like the touch-bar or keyboard are things that take enormous amount of redesign and engineering from both the product and manufacturing standpoint which take time.
- Syonyk 5y ago
  Oh, dear, engineering people have to do engineering. The horrors. The "broken" four years of Apple laptops (2016 to 2019) were quite a bit more frustrating to users. - The keyboard was prone to failure at entering text - "You Had One Job!" This was an amazingly bad reversion to... I don't even know when, actually. People love and hate various styles of laptop keyboards, but it was exceedingly rare to hear that a keyboard fundamentally didn't function as a keyboard after some time of use. Ive's (I assume, given his known preferences) pursuit of Thin Uber Alles led to a fundamentally broken keyboard. Ok, not a huge issue if the keyboard is a cheap and easy fix, but... - The keyboard was so integrated into the top case that the whole thing was unrepairable without literally replacing the whole top case, track pad, battery, etc. IIRC it was around $700 out of warranty, and while Apple kept extending out the keyboard repair issue window for a while, it doesn't change the fact that it was both disruptive for users and, apparently, quite expensive to Apple. When I got a lightly used mid-2015 MBP in 2018 or so (oddly, the base model was still being made quite a while after it had been "replaced" in the consumer lineup), I figured it would be my last Apple laptop, because the replacements were clearly broken, and after three or four years of it, it was clear that the direction was set, and that you were typing on it wrong, or something of the sort. I'm exceedingly glad to see that with the departure of Ive, some engineering sanity has returned to Apple, and the freshly redesigned M1 {Max,Pro} laptops seem to be a reversion to "That Which Works." A more standard keyboard actuation, and actual ports on the side. Woah... Unfortunately, that said, I'm no longer using Apple products at the moment because the whole CSAM thing, on top of bowing to China regarding iCloud, and the questionable labor ethics involved have driven me off. I'm glad to see they're addressing repairability and such, but it was painful enough to rip myself free of that ecosystem (I'm currently using a Flip IV phone, a PineBook Pro, and some Kobos as my general use hardware - yes, they all have a lot of sharp edges) that I don't want to really dive back in unless I'm confident I won't have to exit it again in the near future. With the on-device scanning, in particular, "Well... we're delaying it... for a while..." is a very different claim from "Yeah, sorry, that was a bad idea and we're not going to do it." The second would be useful, the first implies that they're waiting until either a few more issues are resolved, or until people simply forget about the objections. Or it could imply that they're planning on the second, but just don't want to say it for some reason. I have no way of knowing. It's been interesting, though. I so very badly want one of the M1 Max laptops, as it's literally everything I was looking for in a laptop, just... anymore, I'm too hesitant about Apple to actually buy one. And the alternatives for little ARM laptops all mostly suck... oh well. I didn't need to do high performance compute anyway.
shawnz 5y ago
> Anybody saying this is a response to recent anti-trust headlines doesn't understand how a company the size of Apple works. When an announcement like this is made, it means this program has been in the works for YEARS. It's likely they have many pro-consumer and anti-consumer initiatives in the works at any given time. Public opinion can still impact whether those initiatives get accelerated or delayed.
abakker 5y ago
I guess I don't see this as "right to repair". I think this attached to the importance of the enterprise sales channel. They can pilot this with consumers, but the value here is in allowing the fortune 500 to adopt apple devices and staff for same-day repairs. They just announced and MDM, and they have rolled out the ability for iOS apps to run on m1 macs. To me, this makes it look like apple is vying to become the standard app dev environment for new enterprise apps, and have that inertia drag their devices into businesses. These small changes they've announced all seem to be stacking in that direction. edit to add: Security focus and end-to-end control are what the Apple ecosystem is built on. If the results of the trial with Epic go poorly for them, they still have all these features that make their ecosystem a good choice for paranoid/security conscious enterprises. If they get enough of those on the platform, then they have lots of companies depending on that security to back them up when Apple highlights their walled garden approach as a feature.
- volkl48 5y ago
  Apple has always had a self-servicing program for medium-sized and up clients. They don't need this program at all for that and it's not how any Fortune 500 will be doing their servicing. https://support.apple.com/self-servicing-account-program https://support.apple.com/self-servicing-account-program That's not new and the requirements for participation haven't changed. Minimums are 1,000 Apple devices in the org and 25 repairs per year minimum, only service equipment your organization owns, and a line of credit to pay. Next day shipping of parts (subject to availability). -------- To the extent that this new program fills a gap, it's for small organizations that want to do in-house repairs for their stuff, or at least have the option of doing it (and doing it with legitimate parts).
  - ksec 5y ago
    >Apple has always had a self-servicing program for medium-sized and up clients. They don't need this program at all for that and it's not how any Fortune 500 will be doing their servicing. This. I dont know how many times this needs to be repeated before we could stamp out that narrative Apple is doing it for Fortune 500.
echelon 5y ago
> Anybody saying this is a response to recent anti-trust headlines doesn't understand how a company the size of Apple works. When an announcement like this is made, it means this program has been in the works for YEARS. Apple knows it has been skirting the line and likely has many programs in place to deploy if and when the time is right.
justapassenger 5y ago
> Anybody saying this is a response to recent anti-trust headlines doesn't understand how a company the size of Apple works. When an announcement like this is made, it means this program has been in the works for YEARS. I know how companies of this size work. When they have regulatory/pr/legal risk, they can move really fast for their size. Don’t know if that’s the case here, but given it only covers subset of parts of few latest models, limited to USA initially, and will likely take a few years to properly expand, it could totally be rushed in timeline of under a year.
- concinds 5y ago
  The legend going around, is that the iPhone's screen was changed from plastic to glass a week before the announcement (6 months before launch). Nowadays, things like the cameras get finalized 2-3 years before the phone comes out (according to John Gruber) because of how complex finding suppliers, etc. is, but obviously if they find big issues 6 months before release, they can adapt and make late changes. But that's hardware. There's zero reason they would need years to come out with this self-repair announcement, when all it is right now, is a blog post, announcing something that'll come out "in 2022".
  - irae 5y ago
    Apple is not known for good web services. The App Store being a fork of iTunes Store and the Mac App Store building on the same unstable foundation. Sure they are getting better and better, but still... Apple will want to scale this from the web or from on-device apps. Previously we've seen that Apple is detecting each part by serial number, so even mixing genuine parts disable a lot of features [1]. So, now it becomes clear part of their reason: If they can detect all the genuine parts, they can ship for self repair and it will work for the intended customer and not for other devices. This reduces chances of cloning, theft and scams, while guaranteeing quality (and guaranteeing their revenue on replaced parts too). IMO, yes, it would require years for them to announce this. There is all the checkout part, they would need to issue the right part with the correct serial number to the exact customer and charge taxes accordingly. All this logistics is centered on software Apple has a bad reputation at best, and very slow process of development from what is seems from the outside. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s7NmMl_-yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s7NmMl_-yg
NicoJuicy 5y ago
I don't think you know how this works. Apple prepared self repair already a long time ago, just in case they would lose money because of legislation ( because it would hurt sales of it becomes law = a business risk) Upcoming legislation in Europe and UK. On 17th of June it was filed in Congress and voila. There it is. Eg similar. Office on Mac/Android was the exact same thing. Released under the current CEO, but created under Ballmer.
vineyardmike 5y ago
> Anybody saying this is a response to recent anti-trust headlines doesn't understand Or doesn't understand new regulatory threats from Right-To-Repair, which already has at least one state that is moving to legalize full R2R (MA). I agree with the rest though, that this can just be a new revenue stream for them.
diebeforei485 5y ago
> When an announcement like this is made, it means this program has been in the works for YEARS. I don't think so. Repairability is already something they have to consider because their stores conduct repairs. They ship tools and replacement parts to stores and to thousands of Authorized Service Providers already. And they already make manuals, tutorial videos, and repair guides available. They also provide all the tools and repair resources (including software) to large companies and institutions - which is why universities can repair students' MacBooks on campus, and why companies can have an internal IT help desk that can perform repairs. Adapting this for self-service is just a question of sorting out the legalities around warranty and liability - but their terms and conditions are so broad that it couldn't have been too difficult. And it's not too time-consuming for them to film a new tutorial video for display, battery, and camera replacements aimed at DIYers - perhaps their existing videos are already sufficient for this. This is absolutely in response to antitrust and environmental criticism.
- beenBoutIT 5y ago
  Unless Apple's lying it has been in the works for YEARS. "Apple spokesperson Nick Leahy told The Verge that the program 'has been in development for well over a year'."[0] [0]https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/17/22787336/apple-right-to-repair-self-service-diy-reason-microsoft https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/17/22787336/apple-right-to-...
  - pas 5y ago
    It's completely believable, yet utterly meaningless. Development can mean anything from actually addig SKUs to the webshop to talking about expansion of the service network...
  - ksec 5y ago
    >Unless Apple's lying It is called a spin? Or you could call that a lie. If you count the programme started when they were opening up to 3rd party repair it is well over a year. That is the same as Apple ( or specifically Tim Cook ) spoke on record, under oath, in court, that their 15% App Store Small Business Services discount idea started well before the trial. And Apple has been caught many times doing this. From Qualcomm trial to IMG PowerVR Trial. Either lying by omission or spinning.
lifty 5y ago
This article on The Verge sheds some more light on what motivated Apple to make the move: https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/17/22787336/apple-right-to-repair-self-service-diy-reason-microsoft https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/17/22787336/apple-right-to-... Not sure how accurate it is but there was definitely pressure on Apple to make changes.
pentagrama 5y ago
> Anybody saying this is a response to recent anti-trust headlines doesn't understand how a company the size of Apple works. When an announcement like this is made, it means this program has been in the works for YEARS. They can perfectly build the program and keep it on hold/maintenance internally, and when the threat of legal action/bad brand image arrives, launch it.
StephenJGL 5y ago
Eh, back burner plans, or frameworks for years maybe. You undersell the pace of change at companies like Apple when driven by appropriate forces.
bengale 5y ago
I’m glad to see the most sensible response float to the top. It seems a lot of people having given any thought, or plain don’t understand, how complicated a program like this would be to implement at a company the size of apple. Just think about how complicated this might be from a supply chain perspective. How about a support perspective?
- Closi 5y ago
  Absolutely - it's different doing this for a small business and doing it at 'Apple Scale'. Setting up distribution for this alone via an already-established 3PL multiuser facility will take 6-8 months if you include all the contract negotiations (and do them for all regions simultaneously). That's of course assuming you can't squeeze it in your existing facility - and that you go down the 3PL route (if you are setting it up yourself and don't have space in an existing facility it will take longer). And that's just distribution, it doesn't include all the work that has to go into 'consumerizing' all the parts (i.e. presumably they need to come with proper packaging, instructions, disclaimers etc). The people claiming that this can be done (well) in a few weeks have clearly never worked in ops or supply chain development.
  - ksec 5y ago
    This is making the assumption a lot of consumer will be doing self repair. Basic Distribution are already done with current programme. Especially in US. > presumably they need to come with proper packaging, instructions, disclaimers etc. This will be the same as current Apple Authorized Service Provider. Except for a few parts which has MOQ. >The people claiming that this can be done (well) in a few weeks People are only claiming this isn't prepared in years. Not to mention it only begins launching in early 2022. It is basically building on top of what they announced in 2019, and later expanded or updated in 2020. The biggest obstacles for Apple is likely legal clearance.
webmobdev 5y ago
> But Apple didn’t change its policy out of the goodness of its heart. The announcement follows months of growing pressure from repair activists and regulators — and its timing seems deliberate, considering a shareholder resolution environmental advocates filed with the company in September asking Apple to re-evaluate its stance on independent repair. Wednesday is a key deadline in the fight over the resolution, with advocates poised to bring the issue to the Securities and Exchange Commission to resolve. > ... Leahy declined to say whether the timing of the announcement was influenced by shareholder pressure." Activist shareholders believe that it was. “The timing is definitely no coincidence,” says Annalisa Tarizzo, an advocate with Green Century, the mutual fund company that filed the right-to-repair resolution with Apple in September. As a result of today’s announcement, Green Century is withdrawing its resolution, which asked Apple to “reverse its anti repair practices” and evaluate the benefits of making parts and tools more available to consumers. > ... something Apple has long argued is too dangerous for individuals to do. Source:The shareholder fight that forced Apple’s hand on repair rights - ‘The timing is definitely no coincidence,’ says shareholder group - https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/17/22787336/apple-right-to-repair-self-service-diy-reason-microsoft https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/17/22787336/apple-right-to-...
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
>opening up to more repairability How can it be more repairability when the hardware itself is unrepairable by an average individual who could repair most other electronics? This seems more like an attempt to shoot down 'parts whitelist' criticisms while telling 'You aren't technically capable to repair our devices' to anyone asking for more user repairable devices.
deleted 5y ago
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manigandham 5y ago
This entire program can be created in weeks. You vastly underestimate just how fast these companies can move when necessary. They don't need to task thousands of people for this, just a small internal team. It's no different than a highly focused startup, except with the resources and connections of the parent company to ensure they don't fail. And as far as this announcement goes, there's very little tangible changes. It's mostly saying that even more things will eventually be announced in the future.

DennisAleynikov 5y ago

it's incredible whether ulterior motives were present or not. devices aren't more secure if you literally repair them with official parts, the guides shouldn't be compiled by 3rd parties

snowwrestler 5y ago

I don’t think it is related to antitrust, but I do think it is related to the growing “right to repair” advocacy. The reason I think that, is that Apple devices have always been repairable! By Apple. No one needed to “buy a new phone a year early because the battery died” if they were willing to hand their phone and $99 to Apple. I got the battery repaired in 2 different iPhones and it worked great (and was less expensive and wasteful than a whole new phone). I also got the screen repaired on one of those phones. So look at what is new here. It’s not “an iPhone can be repaired.” What is new is that Apple will help me do the repair myself.

enos_feedler 5y ago
Of course it is related to "right to repair" advocacy. This is the basic function of a company listening to feedback and making changes. As long as it doesn't conflict with the core values of the company, there is no reason to not add this. I love how this empowers individuals to repair themselves, or develop the skills to do this for friends, family and eventually open a shop in their local community. Apple is using their powerful iPhone economy to create local commerce. Pretty cool.
Tempest1981 5y ago
It's actually not too expensive, $49 or $69. Cheaper than some non-Apple shops: https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/battery-power https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/battery-powe...
- hmrr 5y ago
  It’s really cheap when you add the risks. Apple replaced the battery in my 6s about three years back and it didn’t work afterwards. If this was an independent phone shop they’d give it back and make an excuse or try and sell you another hooky handset. Apple gave me a brand new untouched 6s handset instead.
  - kshacker 5y ago
    Been there done that. Went in for a battery replacement, on pickup they said they could not fix it as is, and gave me a new phone. Probably was a 6/6S for me too.
  - wiredfool 5y ago
    Me too. And then within 2 days I put a deep scratch in the screen.
pembrook 5y ago
> I don’t think it is related to antitrust, but I do think it is related to the growing “right to repair” advocacy. That's my point. The customers shouted, and Apple actually listened this time. And this has been happening more lately. Why? It's because an exec at "old" Apple would say: "sure, the customers want to be able to repair easily, but won't this hurt our revenue growth and my bonus next year? What if they stop upgrading hardware as often?" An exec at "new" Apple is now incentivized to think: "well, even if they keep their hardware longer, it doesn't matter. Because the customer will still be in the ecosystem and we can get them to spend more via Apple Pay, iCloud, Apple TV+, News+, Advertising, App Store, etc. etc. and all these new services!"
- chewbacha 5y ago
  Thats a good spin by the exec, but it’s more like “the people shouted, governments listened, began legislation, apple protected themselves by getting ahead of it” I don’t really think that this was a direct reaction to customer demands but a forced hand with good spin.
  - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
    It also leaves them open to make it still a scam. Independent repair shops: Apple won't sell us parts so you have to pay them $69 for a repair we could do for $49 or you could do yourself for $20 because it's really $20 in parts and $29 in labor. Apple: Okay, here's the part you wanted, you can have it for $59 or have us do it for $69. No need for any new laws.
  - KennyBlanken 5y ago
    Yep, this is entirely "we can give you the right to repair your device. You don't need that silly law." The law is about giving consumers and repair shops the right to repair, but Apple is pretending that "right to repair" is just about giving individuals the ability to repair their stuff. It's especially safe for Apple because Joe Q Public is not going to even remotely think about DIY'ing this, and they get to charge a price that assures they don't lose money on it. The parts are cheap, the instructions are cheap. It's the labor that is what is expensive.
TheBill 5y ago
Just did this with my 10, $74.95 for a new battery, spent ~2 hours down the street curating a newsletter at a bar I like. It was a similar experience when I needed the battery in my MacBook Air replaced but closer to 100.

a2tech 5y ago

No clearly this is Apple responding to Louis Rossmann complaining on Youtube and nothing more. Gigantic companies almost always make policy decisions based on influencers on Youtube.

TaylorAlexander 5y ago
Just to be clear, Louis Rossmann has raised millions of dollars in funding for his Right to Repair efforts and has hired lobbyists to push forward repair legislation in something like 15 states. He is not just some YouTube guy he is a hard working advocate with 1.7 million followers and a legal campaign with teeth.
- ksec 5y ago
  And to the point Apple ( or representative of Apple ) has to one way or another threaten the state along with other measures. Louis has documented many of these tactics in his video. I think Apple stopped ( or changed their tone ) sometimes after all the bad press targeting them.

ggoo 5y ago

This has been in the works for years, it was just only available to apple certified repair people. Tbh, this seems more like a rebrand of their existing program to me.

ActorNightly 5y ago

>When an announcement like this is made, it means this program has been in the works for YEARS. Doesn't mean its wasn't spurred by right-to-repair movement. Its not like Apple was blindsided by it. > But now, when the revenue growth is coming from services instead of hardware, it doesn't pay to piss off customers by making them buy a new phone a year early because the battery died. I don't agree. Apples model has always been to produce sleek hardware, with every new release causing lines in front of physical stores. Nothing has changed since then. Furthermore, the repair through Apple services was always somehwhat of a money grab, with occurrences of pricey repairs and not-needed services. It be interesting to see what the pricing on these kits are. Since Apple has been rolling out hardware with id, that prevents it from working with non authorized hardware, it almost seems like its trying to put the 3d party repair shops out of business, and this is just filling the void while fulfilling right-to-repair requirements.

thrwn_frthr_awy 5y ago

That was the most frustrating part about reading HN while working at Apple. Changing something like the touch-bar or keyboard are things that take enormous amount of redesign and engineering from both the product and manufacturing standpoint which take time.

Syonyk 5y ago
Oh, dear, engineering people have to do engineering. The horrors. The "broken" four years of Apple laptops (2016 to 2019) were quite a bit more frustrating to users. - The keyboard was prone to failure at entering text - "You Had One Job!" This was an amazingly bad reversion to... I don't even know when, actually. People love and hate various styles of laptop keyboards, but it was exceedingly rare to hear that a keyboard fundamentally didn't function as a keyboard after some time of use. Ive's (I assume, given his known preferences) pursuit of Thin Uber Alles led to a fundamentally broken keyboard. Ok, not a huge issue if the keyboard is a cheap and easy fix, but... - The keyboard was so integrated into the top case that the whole thing was unrepairable without literally replacing the whole top case, track pad, battery, etc. IIRC it was around $700 out of warranty, and while Apple kept extending out the keyboard repair issue window for a while, it doesn't change the fact that it was both disruptive for users and, apparently, quite expensive to Apple. When I got a lightly used mid-2015 MBP in 2018 or so (oddly, the base model was still being made quite a while after it had been "replaced" in the consumer lineup), I figured it would be my last Apple laptop, because the replacements were clearly broken, and after three or four years of it, it was clear that the direction was set, and that you were typing on it wrong, or something of the sort. I'm exceedingly glad to see that with the departure of Ive, some engineering sanity has returned to Apple, and the freshly redesigned M1 {Max,Pro} laptops seem to be a reversion to "That Which Works." A more standard keyboard actuation, and actual ports on the side. Woah... Unfortunately, that said, I'm no longer using Apple products at the moment because the whole CSAM thing, on top of bowing to China regarding iCloud, and the questionable labor ethics involved have driven me off. I'm glad to see they're addressing repairability and such, but it was painful enough to rip myself free of that ecosystem (I'm currently using a Flip IV phone, a PineBook Pro, and some Kobos as my general use hardware - yes, they all have a lot of sharp edges) that I don't want to really dive back in unless I'm confident I won't have to exit it again in the near future. With the on-device scanning, in particular, "Well... we're delaying it... for a while..." is a very different claim from "Yeah, sorry, that was a bad idea and we're not going to do it." The second would be useful, the first implies that they're waiting until either a few more issues are resolved, or until people simply forget about the objections. Or it could imply that they're planning on the second, but just don't want to say it for some reason. I have no way of knowing. It's been interesting, though. I so very badly want one of the M1 Max laptops, as it's literally everything I was looking for in a laptop, just... anymore, I'm too hesitant about Apple to actually buy one. And the alternatives for little ARM laptops all mostly suck... oh well. I didn't need to do high performance compute anyway.

shawnz 5y ago

> Anybody saying this is a response to recent anti-trust headlines doesn't understand how a company the size of Apple works. When an announcement like this is made, it means this program has been in the works for YEARS. It's likely they have many pro-consumer and anti-consumer initiatives in the works at any given time. Public opinion can still impact whether those initiatives get accelerated or delayed.

abakker 5y ago

I guess I don't see this as "right to repair". I think this attached to the importance of the enterprise sales channel. They can pilot this with consumers, but the value here is in allowing the fortune 500 to adopt apple devices and staff for same-day repairs. They just announced and MDM, and they have rolled out the ability for iOS apps to run on m1 macs. To me, this makes it look like apple is vying to become the standard app dev environment for new enterprise apps, and have that inertia drag their devices into businesses. These small changes they've announced all seem to be stacking in that direction. edit to add: Security focus and end-to-end control are what the Apple ecosystem is built on. If the results of the trial with Epic go poorly for them, they still have all these features that make their ecosystem a good choice for paranoid/security conscious enterprises. If they get enough of those on the platform, then they have lots of companies depending on that security to back them up when Apple highlights their walled garden approach as a feature.

volkl48 5y ago
Apple has always had a self-servicing program for medium-sized and up clients. They don't need this program at all for that and it's not how any Fortune 500 will be doing their servicing. https://support.apple.com/self-servicing-account-program https://support.apple.com/self-servicing-account-program That's not new and the requirements for participation haven't changed. Minimums are 1,000 Apple devices in the org and 25 repairs per year minimum, only service equipment your organization owns, and a line of credit to pay. Next day shipping of parts (subject to availability). -------- To the extent that this new program fills a gap, it's for small organizations that want to do in-house repairs for their stuff, or at least have the option of doing it (and doing it with legitimate parts).
- ksec 5y ago
  >Apple has always had a self-servicing program for medium-sized and up clients. They don't need this program at all for that and it's not how any Fortune 500 will be doing their servicing. This. I dont know how many times this needs to be repeated before we could stamp out that narrative Apple is doing it for Fortune 500.

echelon 5y ago

> Anybody saying this is a response to recent anti-trust headlines doesn't understand how a company the size of Apple works. When an announcement like this is made, it means this program has been in the works for YEARS. Apple knows it has been skirting the line and likely has many programs in place to deploy if and when the time is right.

justapassenger 5y ago

> Anybody saying this is a response to recent anti-trust headlines doesn't understand how a company the size of Apple works. When an announcement like this is made, it means this program has been in the works for YEARS. I know how companies of this size work. When they have regulatory/pr/legal risk, they can move really fast for their size. Don’t know if that’s the case here, but given it only covers subset of parts of few latest models, limited to USA initially, and will likely take a few years to properly expand, it could totally be rushed in timeline of under a year.

concinds 5y ago
The legend going around, is that the iPhone's screen was changed from plastic to glass a week before the announcement (6 months before launch). Nowadays, things like the cameras get finalized 2-3 years before the phone comes out (according to John Gruber) because of how complex finding suppliers, etc. is, but obviously if they find big issues 6 months before release, they can adapt and make late changes. But that's hardware. There's zero reason they would need years to come out with this self-repair announcement, when all it is right now, is a blog post, announcing something that'll come out "in 2022".
- irae 5y ago
  Apple is not known for good web services. The App Store being a fork of iTunes Store and the Mac App Store building on the same unstable foundation. Sure they are getting better and better, but still... Apple will want to scale this from the web or from on-device apps. Previously we've seen that Apple is detecting each part by serial number, so even mixing genuine parts disable a lot of features [1]. So, now it becomes clear part of their reason: If they can detect all the genuine parts, they can ship for self repair and it will work for the intended customer and not for other devices. This reduces chances of cloning, theft and scams, while guaranteeing quality (and guaranteeing their revenue on replaced parts too). IMO, yes, it would require years for them to announce this. There is all the checkout part, they would need to issue the right part with the correct serial number to the exact customer and charge taxes accordingly. All this logistics is centered on software Apple has a bad reputation at best, and very slow process of development from what is seems from the outside. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s7NmMl_-yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s7NmMl_-yg

NicoJuicy 5y ago

I don't think you know how this works. Apple prepared self repair already a long time ago, just in case they would lose money because of legislation ( because it would hurt sales of it becomes law = a business risk) Upcoming legislation in Europe and UK. On 17th of June it was filed in Congress and voila. There it is. Eg similar. Office on Mac/Android was the exact same thing. Released under the current CEO, but created under Ballmer.

vineyardmike 5y ago

> Anybody saying this is a response to recent anti-trust headlines doesn't understand Or doesn't understand new regulatory threats from Right-To-Repair, which already has at least one state that is moving to legalize full R2R (MA). I agree with the rest though, that this can just be a new revenue stream for them.

diebeforei485 5y ago

> When an announcement like this is made, it means this program has been in the works for YEARS. I don't think so. Repairability is already something they have to consider because their stores conduct repairs. They ship tools and replacement parts to stores and to thousands of Authorized Service Providers already. And they already make manuals, tutorial videos, and repair guides available. They also provide all the tools and repair resources (including software) to large companies and institutions - which is why universities can repair students' MacBooks on campus, and why companies can have an internal IT help desk that can perform repairs. Adapting this for self-service is just a question of sorting out the legalities around warranty and liability - but their terms and conditions are so broad that it couldn't have been too difficult. And it's not too time-consuming for them to film a new tutorial video for display, battery, and camera replacements aimed at DIYers - perhaps their existing videos are already sufficient for this. This is absolutely in response to antitrust and environmental criticism.

beenBoutIT 5y ago
Unless Apple's lying it has been in the works for YEARS. "Apple spokesperson Nick Leahy told The Verge that the program 'has been in development for well over a year'."[0] [0]https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/17/22787336/apple-right-to-repair-self-service-diy-reason-microsoft https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/17/22787336/apple-right-to-...
- pas 5y ago
  It's completely believable, yet utterly meaningless. Development can mean anything from actually addig SKUs to the webshop to talking about expansion of the service network...
- ksec 5y ago
  >Unless Apple's lying It is called a spin? Or you could call that a lie. If you count the programme started when they were opening up to 3rd party repair it is well over a year. That is the same as Apple ( or specifically Tim Cook ) spoke on record, under oath, in court, that their 15% App Store Small Business Services discount idea started well before the trial. And Apple has been caught many times doing this. From Qualcomm trial to IMG PowerVR Trial. Either lying by omission or spinning.

lifty 5y ago

This article on The Verge sheds some more light on what motivated Apple to make the move: https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/17/22787336/apple-right-to-repair-self-service-diy-reason-microsoft https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/17/22787336/apple-right-to-... Not sure how accurate it is but there was definitely pressure on Apple to make changes.

pentagrama 5y ago

> Anybody saying this is a response to recent anti-trust headlines doesn't understand how a company the size of Apple works. When an announcement like this is made, it means this program has been in the works for YEARS. They can perfectly build the program and keep it on hold/maintenance internally, and when the threat of legal action/bad brand image arrives, launch it.

StephenJGL 5y ago

Eh, back burner plans, or frameworks for years maybe. You undersell the pace of change at companies like Apple when driven by appropriate forces.

bengale 5y ago

I’m glad to see the most sensible response float to the top. It seems a lot of people having given any thought, or plain don’t understand, how complicated a program like this would be to implement at a company the size of apple. Just think about how complicated this might be from a supply chain perspective. How about a support perspective?

Closi 5y ago
Absolutely - it's different doing this for a small business and doing it at 'Apple Scale'. Setting up distribution for this alone via an already-established 3PL multiuser facility will take 6-8 months if you include all the contract negotiations (and do them for all regions simultaneously). That's of course assuming you can't squeeze it in your existing facility - and that you go down the 3PL route (if you are setting it up yourself and don't have space in an existing facility it will take longer). And that's just distribution, it doesn't include all the work that has to go into 'consumerizing' all the parts (i.e. presumably they need to come with proper packaging, instructions, disclaimers etc). The people claiming that this can be done (well) in a few weeks have clearly never worked in ops or supply chain development.
- ksec 5y ago
  This is making the assumption a lot of consumer will be doing self repair. Basic Distribution are already done with current programme. Especially in US. > presumably they need to come with proper packaging, instructions, disclaimers etc. This will be the same as current Apple Authorized Service Provider. Except for a few parts which has MOQ. >The people claiming that this can be done (well) in a few weeks People are only claiming this isn't prepared in years. Not to mention it only begins launching in early 2022. It is basically building on top of what they announced in 2019, and later expanded or updated in 2020. The biggest obstacles for Apple is likely legal clearance.

webmobdev 5y ago

> But Apple didn’t change its policy out of the goodness of its heart. The announcement follows months of growing pressure from repair activists and regulators — and its timing seems deliberate, considering a shareholder resolution environmental advocates filed with the company in September asking Apple to re-evaluate its stance on independent repair. Wednesday is a key deadline in the fight over the resolution, with advocates poised to bring the issue to the Securities and Exchange Commission to resolve. > ... Leahy declined to say whether the timing of the announcement was influenced by shareholder pressure." Activist shareholders believe that it was. “The timing is definitely no coincidence,” says Annalisa Tarizzo, an advocate with Green Century, the mutual fund company that filed the right-to-repair resolution with Apple in September. As a result of today’s announcement, Green Century is withdrawing its resolution, which asked Apple to “reverse its anti repair practices” and evaluate the benefits of making parts and tools more available to consumers. > ... something Apple has long argued is too dangerous for individuals to do. Source:The shareholder fight that forced Apple’s hand on repair rights - ‘The timing is definitely no coincidence,’ says shareholder group - https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/17/22787336/apple-right-to-repair-self-service-diy-reason-microsoft https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/17/22787336/apple-right-to-...

Abishek_Muthian 5y ago

>opening up to more repairability How can it be more repairability when the hardware itself is unrepairable by an average individual who could repair most other electronics? This seems more like an attempt to shoot down 'parts whitelist' criticisms while telling 'You aren't technically capable to repair our devices' to anyone asking for more user repairable devices.

deleted 5y ago

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manigandham 5y ago

This entire program can be created in weeks. You vastly underestimate just how fast these companies can move when necessary. They don't need to task thousands of people for this, just a small internal team. It's no different than a highly focused startup, except with the resources and connections of the parent company to ensure they don't fail. And as far as this announcement goes, there's very little tangible changes. It's mostly saying that even more things will eventually be announced in the future.