7 ms·

Five fold increase in Cardiac deaths of FIFA athletes

49 points by roody15 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
emaginniss 5y ago
How is nobody mentioning COVID? It is well known to cause clotting issues. Many of these athletes may have caught it and felt little in the way of symptoms but still suffered from clotting issues that showed up when they exercised.
- xchaotic 5y ago
  they're playing the long game - making you make the connection and feel smart and smug about yourself. It's all in the game
  - baremetal 5y ago
    i think you are correct sir.
  - takeda 5y ago
    You're right, I believe they want the reader to connect it to myocarditis after vaccination. But once again that happens at much higher rate with covid itself.
newbamboo 5y ago
Could this be caused by climate change? I feel like they’ve been warning us about such things.
- hpoe 5y ago
  Well since it went up 500% in just 2021 it seems really suspect to blame climate change as that would lead to a ramp up over time rather than a sudden change in one year.
WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
This story seems to originate from a single anti-vax source in Israel. I can't find any independent confirmation.
- abduhl 5y ago
  Yes, we should ignore it until we have trusted independent verification. It would be impossible for us to assess the credibility or accuracy without a third party that I trust and hopefully agree with.
  - WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
    Or spend 5 minutes and review the anti-vax mess. It spells out it's agenda in the opening paragraphs. Past that, it isn't a focus on FIFA but globs together tons of posts about anyone who plays sports, eg: school-age leagues.
    - abduhl 5y ago
      Interesting that your first post was attacking the source as being antivax and casting doubt about the substance of the article because there was no independent verification but the second half of your second post was able to credibly comment on the substance of the article without relying on third party verification. Lead with the second post next time.
      - WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
        >Interesting that your first post was attacking the source as being antivax So visit the source. It's antivax focus is confirmed by reading the opening paragraph or by visiting the homepage. > casting doubt about the substance of the article because there was no independent verification 180 FIFA athletes dropping dead would get worldwide attention. If that were to ever happen, we'd have tons of verification. > but the second half of your second post was able to credibly comment on the substance of the article Yep. It credibly commented that the substance of the article was sewn together from SM posts and anecdotes of hospitalized individuals who happened to sport - and who have nothing to do with FIFA. Most importantly, all of it together doesn't add up to the claimed numbers.
hpoe 5y ago
Is it possibly an unaccounted for side effect of the vaccine?
- baremetal 5y ago
  you're gonna shatter a lot of peoples worldview with a statement like that.
  - b0tzzzzzzman 5y ago
    We don't talk about that possibility.
- generalizations 5y ago
  It's exactly the demographic that's known to have elevated risk of myocardial problems due to the vaccine.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - twoWhlsGud 5y ago
    While I'm no expert, just a bit of Googling leads to suggestions that it's also the demographic showing a high (and therefore arguably much higher) incidence of heart inflammation after infection (e.g. from the American College of Cardiology recently): https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2021/09/28/18/07/covid-19-myocarditis-and-cardiac-mri-in-athletes https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2021/09/28... Note while no deaths were found in the studies, the fact that these small studies are finding inflammation common suggests the effect is much larger than the (very unusual) cases being intensively surveilled in the case of inoculation. (I.e. you find what you're looking for...)
    - generalizations 5y ago
      That's only true if the populations are not being controlled for prior infection.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
NougatRillettes 5y ago
The likely implied thought here is that it would be linked to the Covid vaccines. However, I believe the most likely explanation is provided by this citation: > To find out how many deaths actually occurred during the last two decades among FIFA players (2001-2020), we used Wikipedia - "List of association footballers who died while playing". To know how many cases occurred in 2021, we used the list collected by us in "Real-Time News" (which includes the cases noted in Wikipedia for 2021). There is an obvious sampling bias, and they likely collected much more cases for 2021 than for other years. Looking at mortality statistics by cause at nation level would be much more rigorous.
- beaned 5y ago
  Is it possible to determine by comparing to an unvaccinated control group or is vaccination a requirement for play?
bedhead 5y ago
[flagged]
IceHegel 5y ago
Seems like we should check for COVID and it’s aftermath. Could sedentary lifestyle, lung damage, or the vaccine be related?
- baremetal 5y ago
  i dont know that athletes have a sedentary lifestyle.
- recursive 5y ago
  They could, but FIFA athletes are among the least sedentary people on the planet, so it's not related to this.
rasengan 5y ago
[flagged]
jakub_g 5y ago
Many leagues were stopped for weeks/months due to covid and then resumed. Wondering how this relatively long period of inactivity affected players' health. Also: some leagues finished their season later than usual and the rest before the consecutive season was lower than usual, i.e.: 3 months of no playing and then suddenly more intensive game schedule than ever.
- sojournerc 5y ago
  I wouldn't expect elite athletes to stop working out just because games weren't being played - they did expect to be on the field again at some point and would've retained their fitness. There's so much motivated reasoning in this thread to avoid an obvious conclusion.
  - timeon 5y ago
    > obvious conclusion Which is Covid?
    - sojournerc 5y ago
      No, myocarditis brought on by experimental vaccines. Aside from extremely rare cases, young, healthy people get over covid quickly and easily. Professional athletes are amongst the healthiest in the population. Alas, this story had been memory-holed quickly because the evidence is inconvenient.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- timeon 5y ago
  If it is like cycling then lock-down was good opportunity to dope. Maybe someone went too hard.
spywaregorilla 5y ago
https://twitter.com/YaffaRaz/status/1460311564855218188 https://twitter.com/YaffaRaz/status/1460311564855218188 Take a look at the author's twitter feed. Without being able to read (hebrew?) they're clearly an antivaxer. This piece doesn't mention covid or vaccines, but its implied. Reading around it seems like the data is not correct. At a minimum the headline says 100 people died but later on there's nothing, not even their own chart, to support that claim. I would treat this as extremely biased. Flaggin'
- WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
  > Reading around it seems like the data is not correct. At a minimum the headline says 100 people died but later on there's nothing, not even their own chart, to support that claim. This is exactly true.
this_user 5y ago
People are connecting this with COVID and/or its vaccines, but in 2020 we saw a 90% reduction in out-of-competition doping controls. This was followed by statistically significant spikes in athlete performances once competitions had restarted. I would look into that rather than the COVID link.
- timeon 5y ago
  In cycling we saw nearly Armstrong are performances.
pacbard 5y ago
This paper shows the problem with interrupted time series analyses. Mainly, (1) there is an external shock that happened in 2020 that interrupts the historical trend in the data. This shock is probably the covid pandemic, but the time series can't really disentangle how covid impacts death rates (i.e., is it the vaccine? Is it an undiagnosed infection? Is it putting off care because hospitals are full? Is it stress? Is it something else?). In other words, interrupted time series don't really isolate the effect beyond the general shock. (2) It is possible that a similar pattern is present in a different subpopulation that hasn't experienced the same shock. Unfortunately, I cannot think of anyone that hasn't experienced in some way or another the covid pandemic that the authors can use as a possible counterfactual for these analyses. Without that, the interrupted time series could just be an example of an omitted variable that correlated with both the external shock and the outcome and that it is the actual "root cause" of the outcome. For example, it could be that covid lead athletes practice less and become more sedentary. When they resumed their training regimens in the second half of 2020, they were out of shape leading to heart problems. I'm not a heart disease researcher so I don't know if this happens, but it could be.
drcongo 5y ago
I've reached the point where if I see "substack.com" in the URL I'll automatically assume it's propaganda bullshit. Can't imagine that was their goal when they launched it, but sadly that's where they've ended up.
- foogazi 5y ago
  Interesting - It definitely feels to have captured the journalist-in-exhile group in a way that medium didn’t
- collective-intl 5y ago
  Can't handle discussion and evidence opposing your worldview? That's the mark of a weak mind. If only we could shut down all contrary evidence to the expert consensus. That would totally lead to a better world. The truth is really the opposite. Diversity of opinion, contrary arguments, and unusual new ideas are the engine of progress. This article, and Substack in general, is a great example of how true progress is made. It could be wrong, maybe even it likely is wrong if it contradicts the consensus, but damn the consensus! This is not a safe space where we only discuss approved ideas! The point of research is to find flaws in the consensus. How is that possible if contrary ideas can never be discussed? Think like a scientist! And have the decency to allow others to form their own opinion rather than forcing one on them. Think: What has been gained by censorship versus what has been lost? You are simply on the wrong side of history if you don't enthusiastically support free discussion, especially for the ideas that are marginalized. The better policy is affirmative action for disfavored ideas.
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Could this be from the Covid layoff? That is, if you don't play for a year, and then you start back up and try to play at that level, you might be more likely to have a cardiac failure. I'm asking, because I don't know. Did FIFA lay off for a while due to Covid? If so, how long?
lowercase1 5y ago
"To find out how many deaths actually occurred during the last two decades among FIFA players (2001-2020), we used Wikipedia - "List of association footballers who died while playing". To know how many cases occurred in 2021, we used the list collected by us in "Real-Time News" (which includes the cases noted in Wikipedia for 2021)." There are cases that didn't make it to wikipedia (14 for 2021). The graph there is just not accurate to what is in Wikipedia e.g. more one listed in 2018. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football... That said the cases are elevated in 2021
- WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
  The source article that the OP is based on doesn't provide the numbers that the OP claims it does.

49 points by roody15 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

How is nobody mentioning COVID? It is well known to cause clotting issues. Many of these athletes may have caught it and felt little in the way of symptoms but still suffered from clotting issues that showed up when they exercised.

xchaotic 5y ago
they're playing the long game - making you make the connection and feel smart and smug about yourself. It's all in the game
- baremetal 5y ago
  i think you are correct sir.
- takeda 5y ago
  You're right, I believe they want the reader to connect it to myocarditis after vaccination. But once again that happens at much higher rate with covid itself.

newbamboo 5y ago

Could this be caused by climate change? I feel like they’ve been warning us about such things.

hpoe 5y ago
Well since it went up 500% in just 2021 it seems really suspect to blame climate change as that would lead to a ramp up over time rather than a sudden change in one year.

WarOnPrivacy 5y ago

This story seems to originate from a single anti-vax source in Israel. I can't find any independent confirmation.

abduhl 5y ago
Yes, we should ignore it until we have trusted independent verification. It would be impossible for us to assess the credibility or accuracy without a third party that I trust and hopefully agree with.
- WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
  Or spend 5 minutes and review the anti-vax mess. It spells out it's agenda in the opening paragraphs. Past that, it isn't a focus on FIFA but globs together tons of posts about anyone who plays sports, eg: school-age leagues.
  - abduhl 5y ago
    Interesting that your first post was attacking the source as being antivax and casting doubt about the substance of the article because there was no independent verification but the second half of your second post was able to credibly comment on the substance of the article without relying on third party verification. Lead with the second post next time.
    - WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
      >Interesting that your first post was attacking the source as being antivax So visit the source. It's antivax focus is confirmed by reading the opening paragraph or by visiting the homepage. > casting doubt about the substance of the article because there was no independent verification 180 FIFA athletes dropping dead would get worldwide attention. If that were to ever happen, we'd have tons of verification. > but the second half of your second post was able to credibly comment on the substance of the article Yep. It credibly commented that the substance of the article was sewn together from SM posts and anecdotes of hospitalized individuals who happened to sport - and who have nothing to do with FIFA. Most importantly, all of it together doesn't add up to the claimed numbers.

hpoe 5y ago

Is it possibly an unaccounted for side effect of the vaccine?

baremetal 5y ago
you're gonna shatter a lot of peoples worldview with a statement like that.
- b0tzzzzzzman 5y ago
  We don't talk about that possibility.
generalizations 5y ago
It's exactly the demographic that's known to have elevated risk of myocardial problems due to the vaccine.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- twoWhlsGud 5y ago
  While I'm no expert, just a bit of Googling leads to suggestions that it's also the demographic showing a high (and therefore arguably much higher) incidence of heart inflammation after infection (e.g. from the American College of Cardiology recently): https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2021/09/28/18/07/covid-19-myocarditis-and-cardiac-mri-in-athletes https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2021/09/28... Note while no deaths were found in the studies, the fact that these small studies are finding inflammation common suggests the effect is much larger than the (very unusual) cases being intensively surveilled in the case of inoculation. (I.e. you find what you're looking for...)
  - generalizations 5y ago
    That's only true if the populations are not being controlled for prior infection.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

NougatRillettes 5y ago

The likely implied thought here is that it would be linked to the Covid vaccines. However, I believe the most likely explanation is provided by this citation: > To find out how many deaths actually occurred during the last two decades among FIFA players (2001-2020), we used Wikipedia - "List of association footballers who died while playing". To know how many cases occurred in 2021, we used the list collected by us in "Real-Time News" (which includes the cases noted in Wikipedia for 2021). There is an obvious sampling bias, and they likely collected much more cases for 2021 than for other years. Looking at mortality statistics by cause at nation level would be much more rigorous.

beaned 5y ago
Is it possible to determine by comparing to an unvaccinated control group or is vaccination a requirement for play?

bedhead 5y ago

[flagged]

IceHegel 5y ago

Seems like we should check for COVID and it’s aftermath. Could sedentary lifestyle, lung damage, or the vaccine be related?

baremetal 5y ago
i dont know that athletes have a sedentary lifestyle.
recursive 5y ago
They could, but FIFA athletes are among the least sedentary people on the planet, so it's not related to this.

rasengan 5y ago

[flagged]

jakub_g 5y ago

Many leagues were stopped for weeks/months due to covid and then resumed. Wondering how this relatively long period of inactivity affected players' health. Also: some leagues finished their season later than usual and the rest before the consecutive season was lower than usual, i.e.: 3 months of no playing and then suddenly more intensive game schedule than ever.

sojournerc 5y ago
I wouldn't expect elite athletes to stop working out just because games weren't being played - they did expect to be on the field again at some point and would've retained their fitness. There's so much motivated reasoning in this thread to avoid an obvious conclusion.
- timeon 5y ago
  > obvious conclusion Which is Covid?
  - sojournerc 5y ago
    No, myocarditis brought on by experimental vaccines. Aside from extremely rare cases, young, healthy people get over covid quickly and easily. Professional athletes are amongst the healthiest in the population. Alas, this story had been memory-holed quickly because the evidence is inconvenient.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
timeon 5y ago
If it is like cycling then lock-down was good opportunity to dope. Maybe someone went too hard.

spywaregorilla 5y ago

https://twitter.com/YaffaRaz/status/1460311564855218188 https://twitter.com/YaffaRaz/status/1460311564855218188 Take a look at the author's twitter feed. Without being able to read (hebrew?) they're clearly an antivaxer. This piece doesn't mention covid or vaccines, but its implied. Reading around it seems like the data is not correct. At a minimum the headline says 100 people died but later on there's nothing, not even their own chart, to support that claim. I would treat this as extremely biased. Flaggin'

WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
> Reading around it seems like the data is not correct. At a minimum the headline says 100 people died but later on there's nothing, not even their own chart, to support that claim. This is exactly true.

this_user 5y ago

People are connecting this with COVID and/or its vaccines, but in 2020 we saw a 90% reduction in out-of-competition doping controls. This was followed by statistically significant spikes in athlete performances once competitions had restarted. I would look into that rather than the COVID link.

timeon 5y ago
In cycling we saw nearly Armstrong are performances.

pacbard 5y ago

This paper shows the problem with interrupted time series analyses. Mainly, (1) there is an external shock that happened in 2020 that interrupts the historical trend in the data. This shock is probably the covid pandemic, but the time series can't really disentangle how covid impacts death rates (i.e., is it the vaccine? Is it an undiagnosed infection? Is it putting off care because hospitals are full? Is it stress? Is it something else?). In other words, interrupted time series don't really isolate the effect beyond the general shock. (2) It is possible that a similar pattern is present in a different subpopulation that hasn't experienced the same shock. Unfortunately, I cannot think of anyone that hasn't experienced in some way or another the covid pandemic that the authors can use as a possible counterfactual for these analyses. Without that, the interrupted time series could just be an example of an omitted variable that correlated with both the external shock and the outcome and that it is the actual "root cause" of the outcome. For example, it could be that covid lead athletes practice less and become more sedentary. When they resumed their training regimens in the second half of 2020, they were out of shape leading to heart problems. I'm not a heart disease researcher so I don't know if this happens, but it could be.

drcongo 5y ago

I've reached the point where if I see "substack.com" in the URL I'll automatically assume it's propaganda bullshit. Can't imagine that was their goal when they launched it, but sadly that's where they've ended up.

foogazi 5y ago
Interesting - It definitely feels to have captured the journalist-in-exhile group in a way that medium didn’t
collective-intl 5y ago
Can't handle discussion and evidence opposing your worldview? That's the mark of a weak mind. If only we could shut down all contrary evidence to the expert consensus. That would totally lead to a better world. The truth is really the opposite. Diversity of opinion, contrary arguments, and unusual new ideas are the engine of progress. This article, and Substack in general, is a great example of how true progress is made. It could be wrong, maybe even it likely is wrong if it contradicts the consensus, but damn the consensus! This is not a safe space where we only discuss approved ideas! The point of research is to find flaws in the consensus. How is that possible if contrary ideas can never be discussed? Think like a scientist! And have the decency to allow others to form their own opinion rather than forcing one on them. Think: What has been gained by censorship versus what has been lost? You are simply on the wrong side of history if you don't enthusiastically support free discussion, especially for the ideas that are marginalized. The better policy is affirmative action for disfavored ideas.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago

Could this be from the Covid layoff? That is, if you don't play for a year, and then you start back up and try to play at that level, you might be more likely to have a cardiac failure. I'm asking, because I don't know. Did FIFA lay off for a while due to Covid? If so, how long?

lowercase1 5y ago

"To find out how many deaths actually occurred during the last two decades among FIFA players (2001-2020), we used Wikipedia - "List of association footballers who died while playing". To know how many cases occurred in 2021, we used the list collected by us in "Real-Time News" (which includes the cases noted in Wikipedia for 2021)." There are cases that didn't make it to wikipedia (14 for 2021). The graph there is just not accurate to what is in Wikipedia e.g. more one listed in 2018. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football... That said the cases are elevated in 2021

WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
The source article that the OP is based on doesn't provide the numbers that the OP claims it does.