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Are they? At least among wealthy men, it seems much more common for them to remarry and make a brand new second family while the ex wife is left doing most thin

Are they? At least among wealthy men, it seems much more common for them to remarry and make a brand new second family while the ex wife is left doing most things for the first set of kids. Plus, it’s significantly more common for men to leave their wives when their wives get diagnosed with cancer than vice versa. IMO, divorce sucks worst for whoever is the most conscientious person and invested in the family, regardless of gender. PS - I am divorced too (no kids though) - sorry to hear you’re going through that.

matheusmoreira 5y ago
Most divorces are initiated by women. Nowadays, there's an unacceptably high likelihood of divorce within 10 years of marriage. Should it occur, there are significant long term legal and economic repercussions. I simply don't understand why anyone would ever propose marriage in the first place under these circumstances, let alone remarry after experiencing divorce.
llampx 5y ago
> At least among wealthy men, it seems much more common for them to remarry and make a brand new second family while the ex wife is left doing most things for the first set of kids. Your mistake here is conflating what the 1% do with the rest of the world. Its like looking at the richest people in hte world, deciding that they're all men so there must be a patriarchy and that all men are rich. Nowhere near close to the truth. > Plus, it’s significantly more common for men to leave their wives when their wives get diagnosed with cancer than vice versa. Citation definitely needed. At least anecdotally, women seem to be just as capable of leaving a sick spouse as men and in fact are supported by society for doing so more than a man in a similar situation.
mrsmee89 5y ago
> IMO, divorce sucks worst for whoever is the most conscientious person and invested in the family, regardless of gender. This is a more thoughtful way of putting it. Thank you. I do think that men tend to get the raw end of the deal when it comes to custody though.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- me_im_counting 5y ago
  Yeah, that does seem to be true, not that I have particular expertise on that. Sorry that you’ve had to experience that firsthand and I hope things get better for you. I think men and women have their unique challenge “clusters” with divorce (though they are tendencies, not the rule) and custody seems to be a rough one for men.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
cryptonector 5y ago
Are wealthy men the majority of divorced men? You seem to be assuming as much.
- tasogare 5y ago
  Not only this but the cancer related statistics is oddly specific, and chose only because it put men in a bad light. Without numbers (count and percentage) caused by this plus the ventilation by sex it's totally meaningless: the affirmation could be true with only three divorces a year where two men leave and one woman does. On the reverse, men being taken half of their wealth plus having a pension to pay is the overwhelming majority of cases (even when both are working) in the majority of Western countries. And one never reads any story about a woman becoming homeless or killing herself after a divorce while those stories are numerous on the male side...
  - me_im_counting 5y ago
    I actually am quite sympathetic to challenges facing men, and agree that many don’t seem to care. For example, the utter lack of sympathy for male victims of marital infidelity is mind blowing to me. Women tend to be supported when their husband cheats on them, and men tend to be blamed and viewed as responsible when their wife cheats. I was simply pointing out observations counter to the assertion that men categorically have it worse in divorce, and did not come to a conclusion in either direction. There is too much gender based vitriol in general in these situations. The truth is there are sociopathic, selfish, narcissistic, etc people of both genders and ultimately that callous quality is the salient one in the cases I’ve seen, not gender.
    - Justin308 5y ago
      Agree, I am astonished to see the double standard when women cheat vs men : https://youtu.be/qOTe0_Z0vlc https://youtu.be/qOTe0_Z0vlc If Will Smith was trying to justify cheating on his wife to feel "happy" he would have been cancelled by Hollywood.
- Justin308 5y ago
kylebenzle 5y ago
Women lie in court all the time and lawyers will tell you that in Civil Court there is nothing you can do. These psychos will file dozens of "motions" then immediately drop them in an endless barrage of pointless litigation just to harass husbands into submission. An entire industry exists just to bleed families dry by getting women to claim abuse (mental abuse is enough) to get the kids, 1/2 the man's stuff and a steady income. The entire "civil court" legal system is broken in the US. It is what Trump specialized in, civil court cases just to fu*k with people and bully them into getting what he wanted.
- Justin308 5y ago
  Unfortunately, there is absolutely no risk of jail time if a women makes false abuse allegation (either abuse towards her or towards the kids). On the other hand it is a common practice advised by unscrupulous lawyers to get rid of the dad and get full custody by getting a temporary restraining order (it is called the "silver bullet"). A recent story where it happened to a dad, who eventually got killed by the father in law : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_z0AfxT2bE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_z0AfxT2bE No coverage or sympathy from either the media or the politics.
selcuka 5y ago
> At least among wealthy men, it seems much more common for them to remarry and make a brand new second family while the ex wife is left doing most things for the first set of kids. Wealth changes the equation. When you are certain that you can look after your kids indefinitely or for a sufficient amount of time you can go on with your life, take a sabbatical, or whatever floats your boat. You don't need the same energy GP mentioned as someone who needs to work from 9 to 5 the next day after the divorce.
jessriedel 5y ago
Fwiw, the large majority (~70%) of divorces are initiated by women in the US. Most divorces are not caused by cancer, and the advantage men have in re-marrying later are known and appreciated. So I think we can take the fact that most divorces are initiated by women as prima facie evidence that women recover better from divorces.
- me_im_counting 5y ago
  It’s interesting how my comment seems to be taken as an assertion in the opposite direction: that women have it categorically worse in divorce. I believe that reality is much, much more nuanced than either “direction”. That being said, who files is not a perfect signal. I know a few women who filed when it was in reality the husband who ended the marriage.
  - jessriedel 5y ago
    No one is making categorical claims, nor is any signal perfect. But you questioned whether men are worse hit by divorce, and I offered some evidence that they are.
- ximeng 5y ago
  It could equally be seen as evidence that staying in a bad marriage is worse for women than for men, so women will risk more to escape that scenario. (Presumably people file because they expect a better life outcome for themselves from divorce than from not divorcing. This could be because they expect a better outcome due to divorce, as you say; or that they expect a worse outcome if they don't divorce, which is my alternative possible interpretation. I'm neutral on which is actually the case.)
  - jessriedel 5y ago
    To expect a better outcome with divorce is to expect a worse outcome without divorce.
    - 5y ago
watwut 5y ago
All can be true. Reading statistics, on average, men are financially better after divorce women worst. Men feel more lonely after divorce and women feel happier after divorce. Men are more likely to find new partner sooner after divorce, women are more likely to stay single for long time.
- throwaway_sjfgd 5y ago
  > men are financially better after divorce women worst. Does that take into account how much work both are putting in towards earning? Or it's just considering the net numbers? Women may be worse financially looking at just the numbers, however, may still be ahead when their efforts into earning are taken in account. Or when the damages they did are properly taken into account for determining what the position of justice should be.
- klipt 5y ago
  > Reading statistics, on average, men are financially better after divorce women worst How is financially better calculated? Things like child support and alimony seem to not be counted for a lot of purposes - like tax - so the woman could be poorer on paper while actually having more money in practice.
  - watwut 5y ago
    Afaik, they are counted in. Also, alimony are not as frequent as legend has it. Nor they last to infinity. Being primary caregiver, even with child support financially costs quite a lot. Not just in direct expenses, but also in job opportunities and in terms of what jobs you can have, how you can progress on the ladder.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

Most divorces are initiated by women. Nowadays, there's an unacceptably high likelihood of divorce within 10 years of marriage. Should it occur, there are significant long term legal and economic repercussions. I simply don't understand why anyone would ever propose marriage in the first place under these circumstances, let alone remarry after experiencing divorce.

llampx 5y ago

> At least among wealthy men, it seems much more common for them to remarry and make a brand new second family while the ex wife is left doing most things for the first set of kids. Your mistake here is conflating what the 1% do with the rest of the world. Its like looking at the richest people in hte world, deciding that they're all men so there must be a patriarchy and that all men are rich. Nowhere near close to the truth. > Plus, it’s significantly more common for men to leave their wives when their wives get diagnosed with cancer than vice versa. Citation definitely needed. At least anecdotally, women seem to be just as capable of leaving a sick spouse as men and in fact are supported by society for doing so more than a man in a similar situation.

mrsmee89 5y ago

> IMO, divorce sucks worst for whoever is the most conscientious person and invested in the family, regardless of gender. This is a more thoughtful way of putting it. Thank you. I do think that men tend to get the raw end of the deal when it comes to custody though.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
me_im_counting 5y ago
Yeah, that does seem to be true, not that I have particular expertise on that. Sorry that you’ve had to experience that firsthand and I hope things get better for you. I think men and women have their unique challenge “clusters” with divorce (though they are tendencies, not the rule) and custody seems to be a rough one for men.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

cryptonector 5y ago

Are wealthy men the majority of divorced men? You seem to be assuming as much.

tasogare 5y ago
Not only this but the cancer related statistics is oddly specific, and chose only because it put men in a bad light. Without numbers (count and percentage) caused by this plus the ventilation by sex it's totally meaningless: the affirmation could be true with only three divorces a year where two men leave and one woman does. On the reverse, men being taken half of their wealth plus having a pension to pay is the overwhelming majority of cases (even when both are working) in the majority of Western countries. And one never reads any story about a woman becoming homeless or killing herself after a divorce while those stories are numerous on the male side...
- me_im_counting 5y ago
  I actually am quite sympathetic to challenges facing men, and agree that many don’t seem to care. For example, the utter lack of sympathy for male victims of marital infidelity is mind blowing to me. Women tend to be supported when their husband cheats on them, and men tend to be blamed and viewed as responsible when their wife cheats. I was simply pointing out observations counter to the assertion that men categorically have it worse in divorce, and did not come to a conclusion in either direction. There is too much gender based vitriol in general in these situations. The truth is there are sociopathic, selfish, narcissistic, etc people of both genders and ultimately that callous quality is the salient one in the cases I’ve seen, not gender.
  - Justin308 5y ago
    Agree, I am astonished to see the double standard when women cheat vs men : https://youtu.be/qOTe0_Z0vlc https://youtu.be/qOTe0_Z0vlc If Will Smith was trying to justify cheating on his wife to feel "happy" he would have been cancelled by Hollywood.
Justin308 5y ago

kylebenzle 5y ago

Women lie in court all the time and lawyers will tell you that in Civil Court there is nothing you can do. These psychos will file dozens of "motions" then immediately drop them in an endless barrage of pointless litigation just to harass husbands into submission. An entire industry exists just to bleed families dry by getting women to claim abuse (mental abuse is enough) to get the kids, 1/2 the man's stuff and a steady income. The entire "civil court" legal system is broken in the US. It is what Trump specialized in, civil court cases just to fu*k with people and bully them into getting what he wanted.

Justin308 5y ago
Unfortunately, there is absolutely no risk of jail time if a women makes false abuse allegation (either abuse towards her or towards the kids). On the other hand it is a common practice advised by unscrupulous lawyers to get rid of the dad and get full custody by getting a temporary restraining order (it is called the "silver bullet"). A recent story where it happened to a dad, who eventually got killed by the father in law : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_z0AfxT2bE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_z0AfxT2bE No coverage or sympathy from either the media or the politics.

selcuka 5y ago

> At least among wealthy men, it seems much more common for them to remarry and make a brand new second family while the ex wife is left doing most things for the first set of kids. Wealth changes the equation. When you are certain that you can look after your kids indefinitely or for a sufficient amount of time you can go on with your life, take a sabbatical, or whatever floats your boat. You don't need the same energy GP mentioned as someone who needs to work from 9 to 5 the next day after the divorce.

jessriedel 5y ago

Fwiw, the large majority (~70%) of divorces are initiated by women in the US. Most divorces are not caused by cancer, and the advantage men have in re-marrying later are known and appreciated. So I think we can take the fact that most divorces are initiated by women as prima facie evidence that women recover better from divorces.

me_im_counting 5y ago
It’s interesting how my comment seems to be taken as an assertion in the opposite direction: that women have it categorically worse in divorce. I believe that reality is much, much more nuanced than either “direction”. That being said, who files is not a perfect signal. I know a few women who filed when it was in reality the husband who ended the marriage.
- jessriedel 5y ago
  No one is making categorical claims, nor is any signal perfect. But you questioned whether men are worse hit by divorce, and I offered some evidence that they are.
ximeng 5y ago
It could equally be seen as evidence that staying in a bad marriage is worse for women than for men, so women will risk more to escape that scenario. (Presumably people file because they expect a better life outcome for themselves from divorce than from not divorcing. This could be because they expect a better outcome due to divorce, as you say; or that they expect a worse outcome if they don't divorce, which is my alternative possible interpretation. I'm neutral on which is actually the case.)
- jessriedel 5y ago
  To expect a better outcome with divorce is to expect a worse outcome without divorce.
  - 5y ago

watwut 5y ago

All can be true. Reading statistics, on average, men are financially better after divorce women worst. Men feel more lonely after divorce and women feel happier after divorce. Men are more likely to find new partner sooner after divorce, women are more likely to stay single for long time.

throwaway_sjfgd 5y ago
> men are financially better after divorce women worst. Does that take into account how much work both are putting in towards earning? Or it's just considering the net numbers? Women may be worse financially looking at just the numbers, however, may still be ahead when their efforts into earning are taken in account. Or when the damages they did are properly taken into account for determining what the position of justice should be.
klipt 5y ago
> Reading statistics, on average, men are financially better after divorce women worst How is financially better calculated? Things like child support and alimony seem to not be counted for a lot of purposes - like tax - so the woman could be poorer on paper while actually having more money in practice.
- watwut 5y ago
  Afaik, they are counted in. Also, alimony are not as frequent as legend has it. Nor they last to infinity. Being primary caregiver, even with child support financially costs quite a lot. Not just in direct expenses, but also in job opportunities and in terms of what jobs you can have, how you can progress on the ladder.