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Id Software Is Trying to Stop a Man Who Wants to Name His Band 'Doomscroll'
- apples_oranges 5y agoWhat a shame, this lowers my view of Id, someone with money should step in and countersue or whatever you do in such cases..
- erk__ 5y agoDoes this really come as a surprise, the parent company have done it before in the past with the Mojang game scrolls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caller%27s_Bane#Bethesda_lawsuit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caller%27s_Bane#Bethesda_lawsu...
- cedricgle 5y agoI am not sure: did the word doom predate the game or did Id invented it ?. The word origin isn't very clear in wiktionary [1]. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/doom https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/doom
- Brian_K_White 5y agoI can't believe someone asked this. Seriously?
- egypturnash 5y agoIt goes all the way back to Middle English, with roots further back. https://www.etymonline.com/word/doom https://www.etymonline.com/word/doom “Modern adverse sense of "fate, ruin, destruction" begins early 14c. and is general after c. 1600”
- mellavora 5y agoSwedish/Nordic. Dom. To judge, judgement. Doomsday is judgement day. Very old word.
- acdw 5y agoDoom is an extremely old word[1] that was originally neutral in meaning, but has had a negative connotation since the 14th century. [1]: https://www.etymonline.com/word/doom#etymonline_v_13942 https://www.etymonline.com/word/doom#etymonline_v_13942
- jjbinx007 5y agoThe word doom was around long before the game. This is ridiculous. Companies don't magically own all the words.
- 14 5y agoIt reminds me how Paris Hilton trademarked the words “that’s hot”. Like she was the first person to say that. What a ridiculous world we have some times.
- adventured 5y agoJust do it. I'm lovin' it. Think different. Eat fresh. It's finger lickin' good. Slogan trademarks are definitely another monster in the trademark space.
- bussierem 5y agoWell it's not exact, it's the middle english spelling, but the "Doomsday Book"[1], aka "Domesday Book" comes from 1086, so that might predate Id by a bit. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesday_Book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesday_Book
- tobr 5y agoIs this an attempt at sarcasm? The etymology mentions proto-indo-european, which predates Id by a little bit.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago> The etymology mentions proto-indo-european That doesn't mean much. Compare https://www.etymonline.com/word/loot https://www.etymonline.com/word/loot : > "goods taken from an enemy, etc.," > from PIE *roup-tro-, from root *reup- "to snatch" This would make it a cognate of rape, by the way. But being traceable to Proto-Indo-European doesn't tell you anything about the age of the English word. That is a loan from Hindi, and only dates back to the British Raj.
- legutierr 5y ago"Be it so, for I submit: his doom is fair, That dust I am, and shall to dust return." http://knarf.english.upenn.edu/Milton/pl10.html http://knarf.english.upenn.edu/Milton/pl10.html "Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks, but bears it out even to the edge of doom." https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45106/sonnet-116-let-me-not-to-the-marriage-of-true-minds https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45106/sonnet-116-let-...
- alophawen 5y agoWhat is not clear? They have a detailed etymology
- ingenieros 5y agoIf anything Tom Cruise should be the one suing Id Software http://www.factfiend.com/how-tom-cruise-inspired-doom/ http://www.factfiend.com/how-tom-cruise-inspired-doom/
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- thaumasiotes 5y ago> The word origin isn't very clear in wiktionary Huh? Is 'from Old English dōm ("judgement")' not clear enough for you? It's a native word; as far as we know it's infinitely old.
- amelius 5y agoIIRC, trademark law requires the trademark holder to actively protect the name in order to not lose the rights to it. Could this be such a case?
- needmore88 5y agoThis is very interesting,does this mean if you find plentiful examples of acme corp not defending their trademarks before than this could be used as a defense today? Fascinating
- needmore88 5y agoNot sure downvoted, it's a genuine question, I'm interested
- lbotos 5y agoSure, but trademark is "your brand + your market" You can see that play out here in the early case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer "As a condition of the settlement, Apple Computer agreed not to enter the music business, and Apple Corps agreed not to enter the computer business." As long as the band Doomscroll doesn't make their logo look like Id's DOOM logo, and as long as they are very different Id doesn't own DOOM everywhere...
- hn_throwaway_99 5y agoBut it's not just about the word "Doom", because the band doesn't want to name themselves that. "Doom scrolling" is a phrase that is already well known, in general use, and has extremely little to do with how the video game uses it. For example, Id would have very little legal argument if the band (or heck, even a company in a closely related industry) wanted to name themselves "Doomsday". Id's trademark doesn't cover all syllables that sound like Doom.
- lbotos 5y agosure, your point supports mine. DOOM (tm) is different than Doom scrolling. Again, if the band Doom Scroll's logo was styled similarly enough to the DOOM(tm) word mark, then there could be a case of trademark infringement because the point of a trademark is to protect the consumer so that you know that the brand you are buying from is actually the people you expect. It often doesn't feel that way because companies get overzealous and those cases are the ones we read about. Like the above. Most people don't get upset when Lego group go after LEPIN: https://geekspin.co/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/lepin.jpg https://geekspin.co/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/lepin.jpg If the Doom scroll logo is close enough to DOOM there could be a case here. IANAL
- Belphemur 5y agoArs/Wired has a better article about this: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/11/dooms-creator-goes-after-doomscroll/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/11/dooms-creator-go... Basically, they just don't want their brand Doom to be associated with the band "progressive thrash metal" music. It's not the first time this happens and it does make sense. In another occurence about a podcast named Garden of Doom, they found an agreement. > Jeff, who tried to trademark Garden of Doom, his podcast, says he came to an agreement with the lawyers representing Id Software; he says he just can’t make a movie or video game called Garden of Doom.
- thaumasiotes 5y agoHmm. How did their trademark settlement work out for Apple Records?
- ianleeclark 5y ago> Basically, they just don't want their brand Doom to be associated with the band "progressive thrash metal" music Very funny given the various metal genres that have been used in doom games.
- CogitoCogito 5y ago> Basically, they just don't want their brand Doom to be associated with the band "progressive thrash metal" music. > It's not the first time this happens and it does make sense. In another occurence about a podcast named Garden of Doom, they found an agreement. How does this make sense? Why in the world would they have any say as to the use of the term "doom" in another market? The fact that there is precedence is more evidence that id/bethesda has a large legal department and isn't afraid to swing it around. If someone had the will (and means) to stand up to them, I highly doubt any judgement would come down saying that consumers confuse video games and heavy metal bands. This whole thing makes id look pretty bad.
- Causality1 5y agoIP lawyers are the lowest of the low.
- LudwigNagasena 5y agoSingle words and common collocations shouldn’t be protected, it always results in a mess.
- fortran77 5y agoHuh? "Doomscroll" is a neologism. However, trademarks generally have a "scope of protection" to apply to the goods and services that your company is involved with. See: https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/basics/scope-protection https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/basics/scope-protection It seems that you're objecting to "common collactions." Do you mean common words used together? Like "General Electric" or "Master Card" or "Mountain Dew?" It's also very common for people to file an objection to a Trademark registration. We've had SAP and other companies do it to us. The marks get granted anyway. It's just something Big Company lawyers to do get more billable hours.
- throwaway09223 5y agoThe issue is that trademarking a single word like "doom" creates problems for the millions of possible uses for that word. Trademarks should not be basic units of common language. They shouldn't ever be single words (doom, apple, meta, square, etc), because single words are basic language building blocks. There ought to be a requirement that trademarks are reasonably unique to the company (Doom Inc. Apple Inc, etc). The onus should be on the trademarker to avoid entanglement with typical language use. It's unacceptable for a videogame franchise to encumber the word doom like this. I believe the comment you're replying to is including "common collactions" for the same reason. It shouldn't be possible to trademark groups of words in common use with established meaning.
- bt1a 5y agoI believe Ludwig just means that "Doom" shouldn't have such widespread protection. The fact that Id went after “Maryland Doom Fest” and a podcast titled “Garden of Doom.” seems a bit absurd to me.
- LudwigNagasena 5y ago“Doom” is not a neologism. > However, trademarks generally have a "scope of protection" to apply to the goods and services that your company is involved with. It doesn’t matter, the broadness of similar words and expressions is simply too big. > Do you mean common words used together? Words that are commonly used together. >"General Electric" or "Master Card" or "Mountain Dew?" As far as I know none of them are common collocations. > It's just something Big Company lawyers to do get more billable hours. Yeah, so it would be good to reduce the potential overlap of copyrights. Also, it is ridiculous to live in a world where some companies hold rights to use everyday expressions and ban other companies from using them.
- sickcodebruh 5y agoIs the issue that he wanted to name his band Doomscroll or was the trademark attempt the problem? Plenty of metal bands don’t trademark their names. I just did a handful of searches against popular bands using some of my Spotify suggestions and found only a handful of matches. I bet he could have flown under the radar for a while until he got their attention, if ever. (This isn’t an attempt to excuse their behavior, it’s just an observation.) I’ve been active in my segment of the metal world for some time and I’ve always had the impression that this isn’t something most bands do, especially when they don’t have an actual brand to protect! I’ve certainly never done it, never been advised to do it, never had a discussion with anyone else about it.
- restes 5y agoWhy is Id’s behavior bad (edit: need excusing, that is)? What’s wrong with enforcing your trademark?
- skeletal88 5y agoBecause why should they be able to trademark any word combination of "<Some word>Doom<OtherWord>" ? How would this make the world a better place for others if companies could claim any word that somehow contains or resembles their trademarks as their own?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- thioordc 5y agoI mean it’s not their trademark to enforce. Is just having “Doom” in part of your name enough to confuse people with the game? I think not, especially because this isn’t even a video game.
- HugoDaniel 5y agoWhy does it say "Id Software"? shouldn't it be Bethesda?
- paulryanrogers 5y agoI guess it depends on how far up ownership goes. IIRC Microsoft bought Bethesda.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- juice_bus 5y agoOr Zenimax, or Microsoft. I'm sure they all have lawyers though.
- DethNinja 5y agoThere is a trend with larger companies trademarking single word names like: Meta (Facebook), Matter (Ubisoft) I’m sure large companies have figured that they can eliminate a large segment with single word trademark route. I bet this is what Facebook is planning too, eliminate every company from using any word with “meta” in it.
- DicIfTEx 5y agoI wonder if they'll go after Metapedia[0]; that's a brand association that even Facebook would find rather toxic. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metapedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metapedia
- amelius 5y ago"Meta" is also a woman's name. https://babynames.com/name/meta https://babynames.com/name/meta
- harrisi 5y agoSee also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29209291 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29209291
- fallingfrog 5y agoMost likely this is not the decision of any member of the doom development team or anyone who works on actual games at Id software. It’s the work of some corporate lawyer at their parent company (Zenimax media) just making a routine filing for legal reasons. Corporate America is ridiculously litigious.