5 ms·

We can but my understanding is that there are issues, one of them being that these compounds are horrible things that you don’t want spilling or getting on peop

by api 5y ago

We can but my understanding is that there are issues, one of them being that these compounds are horrible things that you don’t want spilling or getting on people. Any car tech has to pass what I call the “rusty pickup test.” It has to degrade gracefully and remain useful and safe enough for use. Current EV tech passes that. I can totally picture a rusty old F-150 Lightning with aftermarket repairs.

southerntofu 5y ago
> remain useful and safe enough for use. Current EV tech passes that. Does it though? I heard exploding/self-burning batteries, which were a problem with some cellphones, were a much bigger problems with electric vehicles? I don't have data on how often it happens though, but that makes me skeptical.
- api 5y ago
  Gasoline fires happen all the time. They just don't make the news because they're not new. Like EV battery fires they are statistically rare. We got pretty good at handling incredibly toxic and flammable liquid fuels on a routine basis and we can do this for high energy density batteries too.
- devonkim 5y ago
  It’s worth considering the status quo of ICE and gasoline fueled mechanical infrastructure which certainly has plenty of casualties and human health problems all throughout the lifecycle. In fact, early on I remember reading that people used to think cars should have only so much fuel in them because they are mobile bombs in people’s homes. But the dangers come from the emissions too and when gas tankers get in accidents and leak fuel into our environment. Lithium batteries in consumer electronics are not really engineered for a ton of safety but for rapid time to market which is certainly not what I’d like to see for very long. And while shipping lithium batteries a warning label needs to be attached but shipping gasoline and lighter fluid requires special permits and must be transported isolated with certain guarantees by law. In this respect our current market has deemed lithium batteries to be far safer than gasoline without much need for regulatory pressure to do so.
yeetaccount2 5y ago
Makes me wonder about how Teslas will age. IIRC they have lots of small batteries placed throughout the car and I’m not sure they were designed to be replaced after wearing out.
- db48x 5y ago
  No, Teslas do not have batteries placed throughout the car. They have a single large battery pack that bolts to the underside of the car. Inside that are smaller battery packs that contain the cells as well as the cooling channels and electrical connections. If you want to completely replace the batteries in a Tesla you can do so in less than an hour, if I recall correctly. It doesn’t require any special equipment either.
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    Does the Tesla battery come with electronic chips to prevent 3rd party batteries like inkjet printer cartridges?
    - panick21_ 5y ago
      No. But if you inject a new battery it needs to be mostly the same as the others and you need to re-balance the pack. There is software for this.
      - southerntofu 5y ago
        I've never heard of balancing batteries. All i could find about it was a forum post with people just as confused as me. [0] Do you have resources on this topic? [0] https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/balancing-the-battery.41245/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/balancing-the-batter...
        panick21_ 5y ago
        This video shows how it works and from there you might find some more information: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Q0nNkQTC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Q0nNkQTC Really about 5-6 min in.
mc32 5y ago
If we don’t want to have micro superfund sites, are we taxing EVs via refundable deposits sufficiently to ensure toxic metals are not left around?
- coryrc 5y ago
  GP is talking about hypothetical flow batteries, not vehicles in production.

by api 5y ago

southerntofu 5y ago

> remain useful and safe enough for use. Current EV tech passes that. Does it though? I heard exploding/self-burning batteries, which were a problem with some cellphones, were a much bigger problems with electric vehicles? I don't have data on how often it happens though, but that makes me skeptical.

api 5y ago
Gasoline fires happen all the time. They just don't make the news because they're not new. Like EV battery fires they are statistically rare. We got pretty good at handling incredibly toxic and flammable liquid fuels on a routine basis and we can do this for high energy density batteries too.
devonkim 5y ago
It’s worth considering the status quo of ICE and gasoline fueled mechanical infrastructure which certainly has plenty of casualties and human health problems all throughout the lifecycle. In fact, early on I remember reading that people used to think cars should have only so much fuel in them because they are mobile bombs in people’s homes. But the dangers come from the emissions too and when gas tankers get in accidents and leak fuel into our environment. Lithium batteries in consumer electronics are not really engineered for a ton of safety but for rapid time to market which is certainly not what I’d like to see for very long. And while shipping lithium batteries a warning label needs to be attached but shipping gasoline and lighter fluid requires special permits and must be transported isolated with certain guarantees by law. In this respect our current market has deemed lithium batteries to be far safer than gasoline without much need for regulatory pressure to do so.

yeetaccount2 5y ago

Makes me wonder about how Teslas will age. IIRC they have lots of small batteries placed throughout the car and I’m not sure they were designed to be replaced after wearing out.

db48x 5y ago
No, Teslas do not have batteries placed throughout the car. They have a single large battery pack that bolts to the underside of the car. Inside that are smaller battery packs that contain the cells as well as the cooling channels and electrical connections. If you want to completely replace the batteries in a Tesla you can do so in less than an hour, if I recall correctly. It doesn’t require any special equipment either.
- southerntofu 5y ago
  Does the Tesla battery come with electronic chips to prevent 3rd party batteries like inkjet printer cartridges?
  - panick21_ 5y ago
    No. But if you inject a new battery it needs to be mostly the same as the others and you need to re-balance the pack. There is software for this.
    - southerntofu 5y ago
      I've never heard of balancing batteries. All i could find about it was a forum post with people just as confused as me. [0] Do you have resources on this topic? [0] https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/balancing-the-battery.41245/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/balancing-the-batter...
      - panick21_ 5y ago
        This video shows how it works and from there you might find some more information: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Q0nNkQTC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Q0nNkQTC Really about 5-6 min in.

mc32 5y ago

If we don’t want to have micro superfund sites, are we taxing EVs via refundable deposits sufficiently to ensure toxic metals are not left around?

coryrc 5y ago
GP is talking about hypothetical flow batteries, not vehicles in production.