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I heard from my wife that cars are designed for men— that is, the crash test dummies are all designed to represent “the average male”. I was really surprised by

I heard from my wife that cars are designed for men— that is, the crash test dummies are all designed to represent “the average male”. I was really surprised by this. https://kjonnsforskning.no/en/2019/06/cars-are-still-designed-men https://kjonnsforskning.no/en/2019/06/cars-are-still-designe...

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
What country is that? Definitely not the US. You can read about the different types here: https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies
- lambdasquirrel 5y ago
  That only changed relatively recently. I think in the last decade? Volvo was the only company testing on female dummies for much longer. They are the only company doing testing with models of pregnant women. https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevetengler/2021/02/16/volvo-cars-cared-about-safety-long-before-the-metoo-movement/?sh=63580fdf7012 https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevetengler/2021/02/16/volvo-c...
MaxBareiss 5y ago
Not all crash test dummies are 50th percentile males[1]. In the United States: Regulatory Frontal: 50th male in front-left and front-right, or 5th female in front-left and front-right Regulatory Side, struck by SUV: 50th male Regulatory Side, struck by pole: 50th male NCAP Frontal: 50th male in front-left, 5th female in front-right NCAP Side, struck by SUV: 50th male in front-left, 5th female in rear-left NCAP Side, struck by pole: 50th male As you can see, most tests are done with male dummies, and almost no females dummies are drivers. Fortunately, there's money that's just been allocated by Congress for doing more female dummy testing. [1] Also important to note that, at least in the United States, the percentiles were determined in the 80s and Americans have gotten fatter.
danielvf 5y ago
As a kid in the 1990's, I got to go to the biggest crash test facility in the US, the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety. There were crash dummies of different sizes all the way down to kids and infants. Here's a list of current US dummies, including average males, extra small females, kids, etc: https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies
- kube-system 5y ago
  The IIHS is always ahead of the curve. They're sponsored by insurance companies, so they have a huge incentive to reduce injuries. (It's amazing what can be done when billionaires have their incentives align with a greater good) But, they have no power to regulate. Vehicles that do poorly under IIHS testing are completely legal, they simply get named-and-shamed. Sometimes I wonder how lax NHTSA testing would be if it weren't for the comparison point which is the IIHS.
  - brigade 5y ago
    On the other hand, because they're sponsored by car insurance companies, they only care about injuries from impacts. Like how them changing their whiplash tests caused neck pain and injuries for anyone significantly outside their test dummies. But because they're not caused by an impact, but rather because they fail cars that allow the user to adjust head restraints to be less effective for the median posture, they don't care.
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      And they don't care about anything else. Dead people don't pay premiums. Thankfully NHTSA has a much broader mandate.
syrrim 5y ago
I'm pretty sure they use two crash test dummies, one representing the 95% man, and another for the 5% woman. This was mentioned when I did a course on product design a few years ago. The article you linked seems terribly biased, and I wouldn't treat it as particularly reliable.
Dylan16807 5y ago
The latter being true doesn't really make the former true. If you have one dummy that represents the average male, you're not doing a good job designing for men either.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

What country is that? Definitely not the US. You can read about the different types here: https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies

lambdasquirrel 5y ago
That only changed relatively recently. I think in the last decade? Volvo was the only company testing on female dummies for much longer. They are the only company doing testing with models of pregnant women. https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevetengler/2021/02/16/volvo-cars-cared-about-safety-long-before-the-metoo-movement/?sh=63580fdf7012 https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevetengler/2021/02/16/volvo-c...

MaxBareiss 5y ago

Not all crash test dummies are 50th percentile males[1]. In the United States: Regulatory Frontal: 50th male in front-left and front-right, or 5th female in front-left and front-right Regulatory Side, struck by SUV: 50th male Regulatory Side, struck by pole: 50th male NCAP Frontal: 50th male in front-left, 5th female in front-right NCAP Side, struck by SUV: 50th male in front-left, 5th female in rear-left NCAP Side, struck by pole: 50th male As you can see, most tests are done with male dummies, and almost no females dummies are drivers. Fortunately, there's money that's just been allocated by Congress for doing more female dummy testing. [1] Also important to note that, at least in the United States, the percentiles were determined in the 80s and Americans have gotten fatter.

danielvf 5y ago

As a kid in the 1990's, I got to go to the biggest crash test facility in the US, the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety. There were crash dummies of different sizes all the way down to kids and infants. Here's a list of current US dummies, including average males, extra small females, kids, etc: https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies

kube-system 5y ago
The IIHS is always ahead of the curve. They're sponsored by insurance companies, so they have a huge incentive to reduce injuries. (It's amazing what can be done when billionaires have their incentives align with a greater good) But, they have no power to regulate. Vehicles that do poorly under IIHS testing are completely legal, they simply get named-and-shamed. Sometimes I wonder how lax NHTSA testing would be if it weren't for the comparison point which is the IIHS.
- brigade 5y ago
  On the other hand, because they're sponsored by car insurance companies, they only care about injuries from impacts. Like how them changing their whiplash tests caused neck pain and injuries for anyone significantly outside their test dummies. But because they're not caused by an impact, but rather because they fail cars that allow the user to adjust head restraints to be less effective for the median posture, they don't care.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    And they don't care about anything else. Dead people don't pay premiums. Thankfully NHTSA has a much broader mandate.

syrrim 5y ago

I'm pretty sure they use two crash test dummies, one representing the 95% man, and another for the 5% woman. This was mentioned when I did a course on product design a few years ago. The article you linked seems terribly biased, and I wouldn't treat it as particularly reliable.

Dylan16807 5y ago

The latter being true doesn't really make the former true. If you have one dummy that represents the average male, you're not doing a good job designing for men either.