13 ms·

_why's Estate

287 points by nonbirithm 5y ago

dang 5y ago
One past thread and a bit: _why's Estate - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1004592 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1004592 - Dec 2009 (58 comments) _why's Estate - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16849754 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16849754 - April 2018 (1 comment)
thom 5y ago
On the one hand, I think almost everything _why touched was beautifully crafted. On the other hand, I am tired of twee programming language tutorials about woodland animals written by people with far less talent. I guess I am getting old.
- 1_player 5y ago
  The tragedy of learning a new programming language as an experienced software engineer is having to start from complete basics tutorials about counting apples in a basket and metaphors to teach what a variable is. One day I'll finally learn Ruby, once I manage to find a learning resource which isn't aimed at complete newbies and goes in depth into the metaprogramming and intricacies of the language.
  - cultofmetatron 5y ago
    you could probably pick it up pretty easily just through rubykoans. http://www.rubykoans.com/ http://www.rubykoans.com/
  - hello_newman 5y ago
    this is a really great book on metaprogramming in Ruby https://github.com/dazhizhang/ruby-rails/blob/master/Metaprogramming%20Ruby%2C%202nd%20Edition.pdf https://github.com/dazhizhang/ruby-rails/blob/master/Metapro...
    - brigandish 5y ago
      Is it free to be shared like that?
  - weaksauce 5y ago
    Other than that metaprogramming ruby book liked in another comment... reading "eloquent ruby" was an absolute treat. it's teaching you all the idiomatic stuff from ruby and not a bunch of filler. easily one of the best ruby books ever written... hell maybe even one of the best programming books. It also dips into metaprogramming and all the other stuff ruby is known for.
    - brigandish 5y ago
      > hell maybe even one of the best programming books My thoughts exactly. I loved it so much I emailed the author and - embarrassingly - told him he was the Mark Twain of programming books! He replied and was also very embarrassed by the comparison. Or maybe that was for his other book, Design Patterns in Ruby, I don't remember as I try hard to forget the details of embarrassing moments. I'm still waiting for a Lacuna-like company to arise and help me forget them all… Still, either book is well worth a read, both are top of my recommendations. If he (Russ Olsen) ever writes one about Haskell then perhaps it'll finally go mainstream :)
      - weaksauce 5y ago
        interestingly enough it looks like he wrote a book on clojure so maybe that will get a lisp more traction.
  - Bayart 5y ago
    I like to start with live coding exercises, think Exercism[0] or Codewars[1], to get a good sense of the syntax and utilities and then do an actual project with real documentation on the side. Tutorials just don't cut it for me, they never have. It's just a grueling format and it does nothing but put me off the tech I'm looking at. [0]: https://exercism.org https://exercism.org [1]: https://www.codewars.com https://www.codewars.com
  - anon9001 5y ago
    I'm not sure if you're joking or just not familiar with _why, but his book on Ruby is probably his most famous writing: http://www.rubyinside.com/media/poignant-guide.pdf http://www.rubyinside.com/media/poignant-guide.pdf or http://poignant.guide/ http://poignant.guide/ It's an incredible work. Ruby is the spiritual successor to Perl, and the niche it filled was to be the "beautiful" programming language. If you don't appreciate _why's guide and the idea of code as magical incantations, you're not going to enjoy your Ruby experience. I don't think there's many rubyists that didn't appreciate _why. With something as weird as Ruby, where there's so many ways to do everything, you're going to want to start with beginner's mind anyway.
    - mastazi 5y ago
      > I'm not sure if you're joking or just not familiar with _why I am familiar with _why and I agree with parent, I've read the Poignant Guide as a relatively experienced programmer (I had 2-3 years of experience back then), 90% of the guide was useless to me. Unless you are a complete beginner, you don't need bacon or water pipe analogies to understand basic concepts like variables or functions.
    - afarrell 5y ago
      I think you’ve just explained to me why I am not a good fit for ruby. I should leave it to those who can do justice to the spirit of the language.
  - steveklabnik 5y ago
    It’s been a while, but imho “Metaprogramming Ruby” is what you want to read.
  - brigandish 5y ago
    You might try Metaprogramming Ruby 2 by Paolo Perrotta[1] (the link has bits you can read). I haven't read number 2, just number 1, but I'd expect it's pretty much the same. It's written with the conceit of an experienced programmer taking a new hire through the language, so it may be right for you. [1] https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/metaprogramming-ruby-2/9781941222751/ https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/metaprogramming-ruby-2/...
  - copperx 5y ago
    A tragedy indeed. "A Tour of C++" by Stroustrup is an excellent counterexample. He explains the basics in Chapter 1, and then goes on to explain more advanced stuff all while avoiding the uncommon or ugly parts of the language. When learning a new language I often search for its "A Tour of C++" or "Effective Java" equivalent, but they're not common. The "In a Nutshell" series are a passable substitute.
  - userbinator 5y ago
    I actually had to learn Ruby somewhat recently, although it was only for the purpose of fixing something and not an extensive development; and for that purpose I went directly to the official documentation: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/ https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/ Personally, I think something similar to K&R style would be my preferred learning material; short and concise but clear and easy to understand.
  - analog31 5y ago
    When I learned Python (coming from a succession of other languages), I didn't bother with such tutorials, but just started hacking away. Meanwhile, I read a bunch of articles, not on how to write in Python, but on techniques for writing good Python code. I already knew enough about programming that I wasn't baffled by those articles (could always look things up), and they made the transition pretty easy. Now, for a language that was profoundly different (like going from BASIC to Haskell), I'd probably look for something more basic. ;)
  - TimTheTinker 5y ago
    Might I recommend reading through the part of the Ruby standard library that is written in Ruby? This is often the best way to become quickly acquainted with a new language, as the code you'll encounter will be sophisticated and idiomatic. It will also be implementing basics of the API, which are relatively consistent across languages.
- HahaReally 5y ago
  Everyone likes a true original and dislikes the imitations.
- handrous 5y ago
  _why's style is like Wes Anderson: great, but divisive; and intolerably awful when anyone with less than excellent taste & skill tries to imitate it.
- nix0n 5y ago
  There's only one Ruby (so far). So there doesn't need to be more than one poignant guide to Ruby (yet). _why's style was perfect for Ruby. But it doesn't work for other programming languages.
  - phlakaton 5y ago
    Just for that, I might write one for PHP. So there!
dmerrick 5y ago
Few developers in my career have stuck with me the way _why did. I hope he is doing well, wherever he is.
waynecochran 5y ago
A lot 404's in there...
EsotericAlgo 5y ago
As a a weasel word, I hear it mentioned whenever why's writing comes up the absolute sea-change it caused in the types of writing that followed it. I know it absolutely changed the content that was coming out even if it was just part of the zeitgeist. Are there any other canonical example of the why style? A few that come to mind: • Learn You A Haskell for Great Good • Land o Lisp • Clojure Brave and True I don't find myself with the time to luxuriate in this type of writing much any more and typically gravitate towards more terse material. However, I credit this style towards developing an ineffable sort intuition and making autodidact approaches a bit easier (at least for myself).
- abecedarius 5y ago
  Land of Lisp has cartoons and some whimsy, but I don't think of it as especially why-pilled, personally. (Haven't read the other two.) I mean, Starting FORTH had cartoons and whimsy too in the 1980s.
  - Terretta 5y ago
    Don't forget Beagle Bros for the Apple ][ era.
    - abecedarius 5y ago
      I never had an Apple of my own, alas. The TI-99/4a had less personality.
- p4bl0 5y ago
  You could add at least Learn You Some Erlang for great good and Realm of Racket to your list.
- bradrn 5y ago
  Oh, so that’s where LYAH came from! I read it when I was first learning Haskell, and I recall being somewhat puzzled by the style. More recently, I know someone who stopped reading it in large part because of the style — it seems to have gone out of vogue now.
ricardobeat 5y ago
Half of the links are dead? Including the 'whymirror'.
lekevicius 5y ago
Quil[0] repo has either a homage to _why, or _why has contributed the intro. [0]: https://github.com/quil/quil https://github.com/quil/quil
spicybright 5y ago
FYI the following links 404: bloopsaphone hacketyhack markaby metaid chirrup skistrap fakeplus processor rb_parse_args The last two seem to not load at all, but it might be a problem with their sites: rubyforge.org/projects/dns-zone dotfiles.org/~_why
Nekorosu 5y ago
Finally, an act of homage for that wonderful mind.
riffic 5y ago
didn't they get doxxed at some point? I don't think they're actually dead. this is kind of crossing a line (i'm not an expert so I can't say exactly what line is being crossed, but I don't think it's fair to the person who originally created this work). edit: yep, wikipedia lists his name. I think "he just wants to be left alone" is a fair statement to make.
- lilyball 5y ago
  They committed identity suicide. For all intents and purposes _why is dead, regardless of the state of the human who used to operate that identity.
  - wpietri 5y ago
    I'm uncomfortable with this sort of confounding a character with the person behind it. If an author says they're not writing any more books about X, that doesn't mean that suicide (or murder) has taken place. It just means we won't see anything more from that author using that character unless they change their mind. My concern is for the person behind it. I hope they're well and are doing something they find more satisfying and less stressful!
    - Volundr 5y ago
      I'm not sure how I feel about the suicide metaphor, but what _why did what more than just saying he's not going to write more books about X. He actively worked to tear down the character and creations he built, rather than simply opting not to make more. He put enough effort into it that I'm not sure how I feel about this stuff still being hosted, I mean I know it's legal and all, but given his actions I'm not at all sure it aligns with his wishes. It really does feel like he tried to kill "something".
      - andybak 5y ago
        Great work should be preserved even if the author wants it gone. I feel quite strongly about this.
lilyball 5y ago
I absolutely loved _why’s work. It was hugely influential and wonderful. Having said that, when they committed identity suicide they deleted everything they could. Preserving their work for archival purposes seems valuable, but I feel weird about operating a “museum” or “estate” dedicated to showing people where to read the stuff that _why tried to delete.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Fissionary 5y ago
  Franz Kafka famously asked his friend Max Brod to burn all his unpublished manuscripts after Kafka's death. Brod did not honor this request, which is why we can now read "The Trial" and "The Castle". So yeah. Preserving someone's work against their wishes is probably a faux pas - thankfully, someone else committed it, and you, me, and humanity at large can just enjoy the results.
  - steveklabnik 5y ago
    I’m not sure if you know this or not, but when _why briefly came back for one more work, this example is one he engaged with directly.
    - ratww 5y ago
      This is mentioned in this article from a couple weeks ago: https://github.com/readme/featured/why-the-lucky-stiff https://github.com/readme/featured/why-the-lucky-stiff EDIT: Ooops, I had posted the title instead of the URL.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  Hmm, seems like it’s more in character to say that he tried to delete it, wondering how much would surface later anyway.
- canadianfella 5y ago
  They?
bruce343434 5y ago
The very top link, "bloopsaphone", results in a 404.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
jfax 5y ago
The favstar.fm link is dead. Not a surprise to me, having known favstar has been down for years. Well, actually, there is an element of surprise: that there's still a link to it, so that casts some doubt over how well maintained these links are to me.
ratww 5y ago
If anyone is interested in the links that return 404, here's the current location of the projects. Some are still maintained: • bloopsaphone: https://github.com/localhost/bloopsaphone https://github.com/localhost/bloopsaphone • hacketyhack: https://github.com/hacketyhack/hacketyhack https://github.com/hacketyhack/hacketyhack • markaby: https://github.com/markaby/markaby https://github.com/markaby/markaby • metaid: https://github.com/whymirror/metaid https://github.com/whymirror/metaid • chirrup: https://github.com/whymirror/chirrup https://github.com/whymirror/chirrup • skistrap: https://github.com/whymirror/skistrap https://github.com/whymirror/skistrap • fakeplus: https://github.com/sspencer/fakeplus https://github.com/sspencer/fakeplus • processor: https://github.com/whymirror/processor https://github.com/whymirror/processor • rb_parse_args: https://github.com/whymirror/rb_parse_args https://github.com/whymirror/rb_parse_args • dns-zone: I don't think this one had a public release • dotfiles: http://web.archive.org/web/20090328140045/dotfiles.org/~_why http://web.archive.org/web/20090328140045/dotfiles.org/~_why
- dsizzle 5y ago
  Thanks for this. I was confused why a page of 404s was staying on the front page for so long, as I've never heard of _why, but I just went down the rabbit hole for a bit and I'm very intrigued now.
voidhorse 5y ago
Im not into ruby and wasn’t familiar with _why until this post. From others’ comments, it sounds like he’s largely credited with the birth of the “fun” programming language tutorial. How horrible. Even as an absolute beginner, I always found those style of tutorials to be massive time wasters and tone-deaf. Your audience’s primary goal is to learn the language. Sure they might be more engaged if it has lighthearted quips here and there, but they quickly become way too dominant in most tutorials of this style and are only good for people that have a lot of free time to spend reading bad puns or hyper-contrived examples.[1] I also skimmed his pdfs, which legitimately seem like a great piece of postmodern literature. In my hasty estimation, _why should have been focusing on literary pursuits from the start, so all in all, not a bad outcome. I don’t have any opinion on his software for precisely the sort of reasons that seem to have driven him away from the profession of programmer. I have no need to know about ruby, and from a quick look all the tools are irrelevant to me. Programming (specifically of the OSS variety) is thankless and yes all the glories it tempts one with are dust. This is why people taking pride in being programmers has always confused me. Computer scientists, sure. Domain experts, sure. System designer, sure. But programmer? It’s essentially an overpaid but (currently) high demand job that’s not too hard about 90% of the time and is completely unglamorous. I never understood the appeal. If you code, you should only do it (like pretty much anything) because the activity itself stirs a sort of joy in you or because there’s some ulterior utility (money, you need the tool you're writing, etc.) in doing it. [1] for a book that actually balances this style well, I’d suggest Deep C Secrets—part of the reason why it works is because much of the “fun” content is in asides and secondary to the main text, something a lot of other language tutorial writers have not figured out how to accomplish.
- RobGR 5y ago
  I'd like to second your recommendation of Deep C Secrets. I originally bought it purely for the title pun, but it is actually one of the better programming books I own ( and I have a lot ).
- emodendroket 5y ago
  I agree on the first half but not the second. Most things a carpenter builds aren't going to last a century, but I wouldn't find it strange at all for him to take pride in them.
funOtter 5y ago
What is _why?
- reactspa 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_the_lucky_stiff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_the_lucky_stiff
michael_michael 5y ago
I participated in a bulletin board with _why about 20 years ago. Unknowingly participated, I should say. I'm not sure if the _why persona had been invented at that point. In the early 2000s some of my high school friends started an invite only phpBB server. It functioned as a sort of proto-Facebook to keep in touch with one another as we became dispersed around the world because of college and jobs. As our personal friend networks grew, the bulletin board grew till there were several hundred members. It remained invite only, and the content—while wonderful and funny—mostly reflected the interests and neuroses of sheltered twenty-something Utahns. As the site grew we naturally developed a set of norms and rules of etiquette that governed the way things were discussed. New users who blasted in and violated those norms were gently redirected initially, ignored eventually, and banned at worst. But in all, things were pretty staid. Since you had to be invited by an existing user, the type of people that joined were of more or less self-selected tastes and temperaments. Then a user called `phonequail` joined and began posting bizarre threads. Bizarre relative to the typical discussions of workplace drama, Mormon theology, 24, and indie rock, anyway. As an example, he started a thread in which he GM'd a Belle & Sebastian-based RPG. In another instance he satirized a thread called "Shooting the Breeze", which functioned as a pre-Twitter for short thoughts and observations not worthy of their own thread. He declared it had too many words and too much discussion. Conesequently, he started his own thread "Muting the Breeze", in which users were only allowed to converse using images—except images of baby ultrasounds, which were too violent for polite conversation. His magnum opus was another series of threads in which he played out a sci-fi RPG he called "Spacelab". Participants traveled around the galaxy, and he gave paragraphs of vivid, hilarious descriptions of strange worlds and aliens. Each post ended with an arbitrary, seemingly meaningless choice, which would ultimately propel the player into another offbeat adventure. E.g., "Do you pick up the calendar on the desk, or relax on your bed with a magazine". Meanwhile other users participated as "fans" of Spacelab imagining it to be a long-running sci-fi universe in the mold of Star Trek, with ego-driven stars, fan conventions, and a children's show spinoff. I realize that some of this might strike people as an insufferable bit of "Katy t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m"-style forced randomness. And perhaps it would be if it weren't carried out by someone with such a staggering imagination. Several years later when I was deciding whether I wanted to learn to program, I kept reading about the poignant guide. I decided to check it out. I was struck by how similar the tone and style was to phonequail's. It was uncanny. Finally, when one of the examples of ruby variables was `phone_a_quail`, I had my Keyser Soze moment. Eventually Facebook, Twitter and increasing responsibilities at our various jobs atomized the board and its participants. Phonequail himself was a divisive figure. Being a far more competent programmer than the guy who initially spun up the phpBB server, he took the board's technical helm. At one point he tried to replace the phpBB with a homegrown bulletin board app he'd written himself. Users voted against it after trying it for a few weeks, and we switched back to phpBB. Phonequail more or less stopped participating. Anyway, either you played along, looked forward to his posts, and marveled at his imagination, or you proclaimed you didn't 'get' him. I was among the former, and, if nothing else I am still fascinated by how by sheer force of will he got a group of young not-quite-adults who were struggling to be taken seriously to _play_ in a way we hadn't done in years.
dylan604 5y ago
Is this website legal to visit in Missouri?
sydthrowaway 5y ago
Anyone else think _why got rich off from crypto and decided to retire to an island somewhere?
- Macha 5y ago
  The timing is off - why's internet exodus was about a decade too early for that to be the case. His offline identity has also been pretty thoroughly leaked by now also and he has continued to work as a pretty standard dev since. His pseudonymous activities were never very revenue generating anyway for money to spark a retirement.
peter_retief 5y ago
Where is _why now? It really feels like a friend has left. He contributed to Ruby/Rails, he developed a weird graphics program I think called shooes, which I actually wrote a app with. Mostly I remember him taking the time to help me search a directory in Ruby. Thanks.
- rurban 5y ago
  He disbanded his pseudonym and works under his real name. But not with the Ruby community anymore, in completely different IT fields.

287 points by nonbirithm 5y ago

dang 5y ago

One past thread and a bit: _why's Estate - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1004592 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1004592 - Dec 2009 (58 comments) _why's Estate - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16849754 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16849754 - April 2018 (1 comment)

thom 5y ago

On the one hand, I think almost everything _why touched was beautifully crafted. On the other hand, I am tired of twee programming language tutorials about woodland animals written by people with far less talent. I guess I am getting old.

1_player 5y ago
The tragedy of learning a new programming language as an experienced software engineer is having to start from complete basics tutorials about counting apples in a basket and metaphors to teach what a variable is. One day I'll finally learn Ruby, once I manage to find a learning resource which isn't aimed at complete newbies and goes in depth into the metaprogramming and intricacies of the language.
- cultofmetatron 5y ago
  you could probably pick it up pretty easily just through rubykoans. http://www.rubykoans.com/ http://www.rubykoans.com/
- hello_newman 5y ago
  this is a really great book on metaprogramming in Ruby https://github.com/dazhizhang/ruby-rails/blob/master/Metaprogramming%20Ruby%2C%202nd%20Edition.pdf https://github.com/dazhizhang/ruby-rails/blob/master/Metapro...
  - brigandish 5y ago
    Is it free to be shared like that?
- weaksauce 5y ago
  Other than that metaprogramming ruby book liked in another comment... reading "eloquent ruby" was an absolute treat. it's teaching you all the idiomatic stuff from ruby and not a bunch of filler. easily one of the best ruby books ever written... hell maybe even one of the best programming books. It also dips into metaprogramming and all the other stuff ruby is known for.
  - brigandish 5y ago
    > hell maybe even one of the best programming books My thoughts exactly. I loved it so much I emailed the author and - embarrassingly - told him he was the Mark Twain of programming books! He replied and was also very embarrassed by the comparison. Or maybe that was for his other book, Design Patterns in Ruby, I don't remember as I try hard to forget the details of embarrassing moments. I'm still waiting for a Lacuna-like company to arise and help me forget them all… Still, either book is well worth a read, both are top of my recommendations. If he (Russ Olsen) ever writes one about Haskell then perhaps it'll finally go mainstream :)
    - weaksauce 5y ago
      interestingly enough it looks like he wrote a book on clojure so maybe that will get a lisp more traction.
- Bayart 5y ago
  I like to start with live coding exercises, think Exercism[0] or Codewars[1], to get a good sense of the syntax and utilities and then do an actual project with real documentation on the side. Tutorials just don't cut it for me, they never have. It's just a grueling format and it does nothing but put me off the tech I'm looking at. [0]: https://exercism.org https://exercism.org [1]: https://www.codewars.com https://www.codewars.com
- anon9001 5y ago
  I'm not sure if you're joking or just not familiar with _why, but his book on Ruby is probably his most famous writing: http://www.rubyinside.com/media/poignant-guide.pdf http://www.rubyinside.com/media/poignant-guide.pdf or http://poignant.guide/ http://poignant.guide/ It's an incredible work. Ruby is the spiritual successor to Perl, and the niche it filled was to be the "beautiful" programming language. If you don't appreciate _why's guide and the idea of code as magical incantations, you're not going to enjoy your Ruby experience. I don't think there's many rubyists that didn't appreciate _why. With something as weird as Ruby, where there's so many ways to do everything, you're going to want to start with beginner's mind anyway.
  - mastazi 5y ago
    > I'm not sure if you're joking or just not familiar with _why I am familiar with _why and I agree with parent, I've read the Poignant Guide as a relatively experienced programmer (I had 2-3 years of experience back then), 90% of the guide was useless to me. Unless you are a complete beginner, you don't need bacon or water pipe analogies to understand basic concepts like variables or functions.
  - afarrell 5y ago
    I think you’ve just explained to me why I am not a good fit for ruby. I should leave it to those who can do justice to the spirit of the language.
- steveklabnik 5y ago
  It’s been a while, but imho “Metaprogramming Ruby” is what you want to read.
- brigandish 5y ago
  You might try Metaprogramming Ruby 2 by Paolo Perrotta[1] (the link has bits you can read). I haven't read number 2, just number 1, but I'd expect it's pretty much the same. It's written with the conceit of an experienced programmer taking a new hire through the language, so it may be right for you. [1] https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/metaprogramming-ruby-2/9781941222751/ https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/metaprogramming-ruby-2/...
- copperx 5y ago
  A tragedy indeed. "A Tour of C++" by Stroustrup is an excellent counterexample. He explains the basics in Chapter 1, and then goes on to explain more advanced stuff all while avoiding the uncommon or ugly parts of the language. When learning a new language I often search for its "A Tour of C++" or "Effective Java" equivalent, but they're not common. The "In a Nutshell" series are a passable substitute.
- userbinator 5y ago
  I actually had to learn Ruby somewhat recently, although it was only for the purpose of fixing something and not an extensive development; and for that purpose I went directly to the official documentation: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/ https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/ Personally, I think something similar to K&R style would be my preferred learning material; short and concise but clear and easy to understand.
- analog31 5y ago
  When I learned Python (coming from a succession of other languages), I didn't bother with such tutorials, but just started hacking away. Meanwhile, I read a bunch of articles, not on how to write in Python, but on techniques for writing good Python code. I already knew enough about programming that I wasn't baffled by those articles (could always look things up), and they made the transition pretty easy. Now, for a language that was profoundly different (like going from BASIC to Haskell), I'd probably look for something more basic. ;)
- TimTheTinker 5y ago
  Might I recommend reading through the part of the Ruby standard library that is written in Ruby? This is often the best way to become quickly acquainted with a new language, as the code you'll encounter will be sophisticated and idiomatic. It will also be implementing basics of the API, which are relatively consistent across languages.
HahaReally 5y ago
Everyone likes a true original and dislikes the imitations.
handrous 5y ago
_why's style is like Wes Anderson: great, but divisive; and intolerably awful when anyone with less than excellent taste & skill tries to imitate it.
nix0n 5y ago
There's only one Ruby (so far). So there doesn't need to be more than one poignant guide to Ruby (yet). _why's style was perfect for Ruby. But it doesn't work for other programming languages.
- phlakaton 5y ago
  Just for that, I might write one for PHP. So there!

dmerrick 5y ago

Few developers in my career have stuck with me the way _why did. I hope he is doing well, wherever he is.

waynecochran 5y ago

A lot 404's in there...

EsotericAlgo 5y ago

As a a weasel word, I hear it mentioned whenever why's writing comes up the absolute sea-change it caused in the types of writing that followed it. I know it absolutely changed the content that was coming out even if it was just part of the zeitgeist. Are there any other canonical example of the why style? A few that come to mind: • Learn You A Haskell for Great Good • Land o Lisp • Clojure Brave and True I don't find myself with the time to luxuriate in this type of writing much any more and typically gravitate towards more terse material. However, I credit this style towards developing an ineffable sort intuition and making autodidact approaches a bit easier (at least for myself).

abecedarius 5y ago
Land of Lisp has cartoons and some whimsy, but I don't think of it as especially why-pilled, personally. (Haven't read the other two.) I mean, Starting FORTH had cartoons and whimsy too in the 1980s.
- Terretta 5y ago
  Don't forget Beagle Bros for the Apple ][ era.
  - abecedarius 5y ago
    I never had an Apple of my own, alas. The TI-99/4a had less personality.
p4bl0 5y ago
You could add at least Learn You Some Erlang for great good and Realm of Racket to your list.
bradrn 5y ago
Oh, so that’s where LYAH came from! I read it when I was first learning Haskell, and I recall being somewhat puzzled by the style. More recently, I know someone who stopped reading it in large part because of the style — it seems to have gone out of vogue now.

ricardobeat 5y ago

Half of the links are dead? Including the 'whymirror'.

lekevicius 5y ago

Quil[0] repo has either a homage to _why, or _why has contributed the intro. [0]: https://github.com/quil/quil https://github.com/quil/quil

spicybright 5y ago

FYI the following links 404: bloopsaphone hacketyhack markaby metaid chirrup skistrap fakeplus processor rb_parse_args The last two seem to not load at all, but it might be a problem with their sites: rubyforge.org/projects/dns-zone dotfiles.org/~_why

Nekorosu 5y ago

Finally, an act of homage for that wonderful mind.

riffic 5y ago

didn't they get doxxed at some point? I don't think they're actually dead. this is kind of crossing a line (i'm not an expert so I can't say exactly what line is being crossed, but I don't think it's fair to the person who originally created this work). edit: yep, wikipedia lists his name. I think "he just wants to be left alone" is a fair statement to make.

lilyball 5y ago
They committed identity suicide. For all intents and purposes _why is dead, regardless of the state of the human who used to operate that identity.
- wpietri 5y ago
  I'm uncomfortable with this sort of confounding a character with the person behind it. If an author says they're not writing any more books about X, that doesn't mean that suicide (or murder) has taken place. It just means we won't see anything more from that author using that character unless they change their mind. My concern is for the person behind it. I hope they're well and are doing something they find more satisfying and less stressful!
  - Volundr 5y ago
    I'm not sure how I feel about the suicide metaphor, but what _why did what more than just saying he's not going to write more books about X. He actively worked to tear down the character and creations he built, rather than simply opting not to make more. He put enough effort into it that I'm not sure how I feel about this stuff still being hosted, I mean I know it's legal and all, but given his actions I'm not at all sure it aligns with his wishes. It really does feel like he tried to kill "something".
    - andybak 5y ago
      Great work should be preserved even if the author wants it gone. I feel quite strongly about this.

lilyball 5y ago

I absolutely loved _why’s work. It was hugely influential and wonderful. Having said that, when they committed identity suicide they deleted everything they could. Preserving their work for archival purposes seems valuable, but I feel weird about operating a “museum” or “estate” dedicated to showing people where to read the stuff that _why tried to delete.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Fissionary 5y ago
Franz Kafka famously asked his friend Max Brod to burn all his unpublished manuscripts after Kafka's death. Brod did not honor this request, which is why we can now read "The Trial" and "The Castle". So yeah. Preserving someone's work against their wishes is probably a faux pas - thankfully, someone else committed it, and you, me, and humanity at large can just enjoy the results.
- steveklabnik 5y ago
  I’m not sure if you know this or not, but when _why briefly came back for one more work, this example is one he engaged with directly.
  - ratww 5y ago
    This is mentioned in this article from a couple weeks ago: https://github.com/readme/featured/why-the-lucky-stiff https://github.com/readme/featured/why-the-lucky-stiff EDIT: Ooops, I had posted the title instead of the URL.
Aeolun 5y ago
Hmm, seems like it’s more in character to say that he tried to delete it, wondering how much would surface later anyway.
canadianfella 5y ago
They?

bruce343434 5y ago

The very top link, "bloopsaphone", results in a 404.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

jfax 5y ago

The favstar.fm link is dead. Not a surprise to me, having known favstar has been down for years. Well, actually, there is an element of surprise: that there's still a link to it, so that casts some doubt over how well maintained these links are to me.

ratww 5y ago

If anyone is interested in the links that return 404, here's the current location of the projects. Some are still maintained: • bloopsaphone: https://github.com/localhost/bloopsaphone https://github.com/localhost/bloopsaphone • hacketyhack: https://github.com/hacketyhack/hacketyhack https://github.com/hacketyhack/hacketyhack • markaby: https://github.com/markaby/markaby https://github.com/markaby/markaby • metaid: https://github.com/whymirror/metaid https://github.com/whymirror/metaid • chirrup: https://github.com/whymirror/chirrup https://github.com/whymirror/chirrup • skistrap: https://github.com/whymirror/skistrap https://github.com/whymirror/skistrap • fakeplus: https://github.com/sspencer/fakeplus https://github.com/sspencer/fakeplus • processor: https://github.com/whymirror/processor https://github.com/whymirror/processor • rb_parse_args: https://github.com/whymirror/rb_parse_args https://github.com/whymirror/rb_parse_args • dns-zone: I don't think this one had a public release • dotfiles: http://web.archive.org/web/20090328140045/dotfiles.org/~_why http://web.archive.org/web/20090328140045/dotfiles.org/~_why

dsizzle 5y ago
Thanks for this. I was confused why a page of 404s was staying on the front page for so long, as I've never heard of _why, but I just went down the rabbit hole for a bit and I'm very intrigued now.

voidhorse 5y ago

Im not into ruby and wasn’t familiar with _why until this post. From others’ comments, it sounds like he’s largely credited with the birth of the “fun” programming language tutorial. How horrible. Even as an absolute beginner, I always found those style of tutorials to be massive time wasters and tone-deaf. Your audience’s primary goal is to learn the language. Sure they might be more engaged if it has lighthearted quips here and there, but they quickly become way too dominant in most tutorials of this style and are only good for people that have a lot of free time to spend reading bad puns or hyper-contrived examples.[1] I also skimmed his pdfs, which legitimately seem like a great piece of postmodern literature. In my hasty estimation, _why should have been focusing on literary pursuits from the start, so all in all, not a bad outcome. I don’t have any opinion on his software for precisely the sort of reasons that seem to have driven him away from the profession of programmer. I have no need to know about ruby, and from a quick look all the tools are irrelevant to me. Programming (specifically of the OSS variety) is thankless and yes all the glories it tempts one with are dust. This is why people taking pride in being programmers has always confused me. Computer scientists, sure. Domain experts, sure. System designer, sure. But programmer? It’s essentially an overpaid but (currently) high demand job that’s not too hard about 90% of the time and is completely unglamorous. I never understood the appeal. If you code, you should only do it (like pretty much anything) because the activity itself stirs a sort of joy in you or because there’s some ulterior utility (money, you need the tool you're writing, etc.) in doing it. [1] for a book that actually balances this style well, I’d suggest Deep C Secrets—part of the reason why it works is because much of the “fun” content is in asides and secondary to the main text, something a lot of other language tutorial writers have not figured out how to accomplish.

RobGR 5y ago
I'd like to second your recommendation of Deep C Secrets. I originally bought it purely for the title pun, but it is actually one of the better programming books I own ( and I have a lot ).
emodendroket 5y ago
I agree on the first half but not the second. Most things a carpenter builds aren't going to last a century, but I wouldn't find it strange at all for him to take pride in them.

funOtter 5y ago

What is _why?

reactspa 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_the_lucky_stiff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_the_lucky_stiff

michael_michael 5y ago

I participated in a bulletin board with _why about 20 years ago. Unknowingly participated, I should say. I'm not sure if the _why persona had been invented at that point. In the early 2000s some of my high school friends started an invite only phpBB server. It functioned as a sort of proto-Facebook to keep in touch with one another as we became dispersed around the world because of college and jobs. As our personal friend networks grew, the bulletin board grew till there were several hundred members. It remained invite only, and the content—while wonderful and funny—mostly reflected the interests and neuroses of sheltered twenty-something Utahns. As the site grew we naturally developed a set of norms and rules of etiquette that governed the way things were discussed. New users who blasted in and violated those norms were gently redirected initially, ignored eventually, and banned at worst. But in all, things were pretty staid. Since you had to be invited by an existing user, the type of people that joined were of more or less self-selected tastes and temperaments. Then a user called `phonequail` joined and began posting bizarre threads. Bizarre relative to the typical discussions of workplace drama, Mormon theology, 24, and indie rock, anyway. As an example, he started a thread in which he GM'd a Belle & Sebastian-based RPG. In another instance he satirized a thread called "Shooting the Breeze", which functioned as a pre-Twitter for short thoughts and observations not worthy of their own thread. He declared it had too many words and too much discussion. Conesequently, he started his own thread "Muting the Breeze", in which users were only allowed to converse using images—except images of baby ultrasounds, which were too violent for polite conversation. His magnum opus was another series of threads in which he played out a sci-fi RPG he called "Spacelab". Participants traveled around the galaxy, and he gave paragraphs of vivid, hilarious descriptions of strange worlds and aliens. Each post ended with an arbitrary, seemingly meaningless choice, which would ultimately propel the player into another offbeat adventure. E.g., "Do you pick up the calendar on the desk, or relax on your bed with a magazine". Meanwhile other users participated as "fans" of Spacelab imagining it to be a long-running sci-fi universe in the mold of Star Trek, with ego-driven stars, fan conventions, and a children's show spinoff. I realize that some of this might strike people as an insufferable bit of "Katy t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m"-style forced randomness. And perhaps it would be if it weren't carried out by someone with such a staggering imagination. Several years later when I was deciding whether I wanted to learn to program, I kept reading about the poignant guide. I decided to check it out. I was struck by how similar the tone and style was to phonequail's. It was uncanny. Finally, when one of the examples of ruby variables was `phone_a_quail`, I had my Keyser Soze moment. Eventually Facebook, Twitter and increasing responsibilities at our various jobs atomized the board and its participants. Phonequail himself was a divisive figure. Being a far more competent programmer than the guy who initially spun up the phpBB server, he took the board's technical helm. At one point he tried to replace the phpBB with a homegrown bulletin board app he'd written himself. Users voted against it after trying it for a few weeks, and we switched back to phpBB. Phonequail more or less stopped participating. Anyway, either you played along, looked forward to his posts, and marveled at his imagination, or you proclaimed you didn't 'get' him. I was among the former, and, if nothing else I am still fascinated by how by sheer force of will he got a group of young not-quite-adults who were struggling to be taken seriously to _play_ in a way we hadn't done in years.

dylan604 5y ago

Is this website legal to visit in Missouri?

sydthrowaway 5y ago

Anyone else think _why got rich off from crypto and decided to retire to an island somewhere?

Macha 5y ago
The timing is off - why's internet exodus was about a decade too early for that to be the case. His offline identity has also been pretty thoroughly leaked by now also and he has continued to work as a pretty standard dev since. His pseudonymous activities were never very revenue generating anyway for money to spark a retirement.

peter_retief 5y ago

Where is _why now? It really feels like a friend has left. He contributed to Ruby/Rails, he developed a weird graphics program I think called shooes, which I actually wrote a app with. Mostly I remember him taking the time to help me search a directory in Ruby. Thanks.

rurban 5y ago
He disbanded his pseudonym and works under his real name. But not with the Ruby community anymore, in completely different IT fields.