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This is excellent news for the simple reason that the business goals are aligned for desktop linux. Nobody makes money on desktop linux and it's in a terrible s

This is excellent news for the simple reason that the business goals are aligned for desktop linux. Nobody makes money on desktop linux and it's in a terrible state. Canonical gave up on this and is chasing snaps for servers, IoT, etc. RH also makes money only on servers. Other players are too small and won't have consistent revenue to invest any resources. If S76 becomes a successful h/w vendor, at least it is in their interest to make desktop suck less.

xedrac 5y ago
On the contrary, Linux desktop is in a much better state than Windows desktop in my opinion. Windows seems to get worse with every release, while Linux has been making slow and steady improvements. Perhaps I just value the control that Linux gives me more than the warm fuzzy people get knowing that 75% of the population uses their same OS.
- shrimp_emoji 5y ago
  Alt+Space, a little window pops up in the center of the screen (KRunner). I can type in math equations and I see their solution, I can get word definitions, I can launch apps and more. I have a file manager (Dolphin) with terminal integration, split views, and tabs. Going to Windows feels like a steep UX downgrade from KDE on Linux. :p
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
lumost 5y ago
Anecdotally, I suspect that there is a large enough super premium market for Linux laptops/workstations that look nice and just work. I love Linux, I haven't touched windows in 10 years. My last two forays in linuxhone computing were massive time sucks. I bought a razer blade and it took 1 year for the kernel to catch up with how the razer laptops manage lid closures. I love the system76 and pop is strategy of chasing a great experience for those who need Linux. I can't wait for them to release an in house laptop.
- sadfev 5y ago
  Unfortunately the competitiveness of x86 for desktop is completely lost now. Apple has destroyed x86. If only Apple had a decent API for GPGPU programming!
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  Business laptops such as Lenovo Thinkpad, HP EliteBook, and Dell Latitude already have great support, cheap parts if something breaks and 3rd party support is so good you can install coreboot on them due to hackers who ported them out of passion. This guide is for the x230 (I don’t recommend it due to the TN screens sucking, and the replacement batteries both their replacement is expensive). https://steemit.com/tutorial/@joeyd/run-don-t-walk-from-the-blob https://steemit.com/tutorial/@joeyd/run-don-t-walk-from-the-... https://doc.coreboot.org/distributions.html https://doc.coreboot.org/distributions.html > All ChromeOS devices (Chromebooks, Chromeboxes, Chromebit, etc) released from 2012 onward use coreboot for their main system firmware. Additionally, starting with the 2013 Chromebook Pixel, the firmware running on the Embedded Controller (EC) – a small microcontroller which provides functions like battery management, keyboard support, and sensor interfacing – is open source as well. Wow awesome, if you want good cheap OEM coreboot support, getting native ChromeOS laptops is the easiest.
  - lumost 5y ago
    I agree that good cheap chromebooks exist - however what I want doesn't really fall under the "business notebook", "gaming notebook" or "good cheap chromebook" category. I prefer what would typically be offered in a macbook or surface laptop form factor. While I can install linux on a macbook, razer, or surface laptop - it's not exactly a "clean" experience. In fact, even on an expensive "linux" laptop from dell I'm likely to still have a windows key! or non-functional windows hello sensors. Why shouldn't there be built for linux machines? Why should linux users need a tutorial to get their os running?
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      They don’t need a tutorial for most devices, Windows doesn’t work as well out of box either and has tons of hacks to make it run better, so it’s not harder compared to the norm, it’s actually easier. Besides it’s desktop Linux, it wasn’t “just works” for a long time but it’s that way if you do light research on a supported device, then everything works out of box. Linux is designed to support as much hardware as possible so what’s the purpose of buying more expensive hardware with less features if better hardware exists? You don’t need a tutorial, mostly if not all everything out of box works on Linux for every laptop and desktop I used (I don’t buy hardware newer than a few years for price and compatibility reasons) and setup is easier since there’s (almost) no drivers (fuck you Nvidia). It’s just a meta key with a different logo if it bothers you just put a sticker over it. I’d never complain about extra keys or an extra sensor (that can be supported later) and I’m not sure why it’s a problem in the first place. The tutorial linked was just if you wanted coreboot. The surface pro 3 I used had everything working out of box with Ubuntu (Gnome was great on touchscreen). It was very clean. I also love OSX, it is just like Linux for the most part except I can use more software and use the same CLI stuff I’d use on Linux. I don’t care to install it over OSX on a MacBook, is there something you find lacking on it?
yoavm 5y ago
Could be that I've been using Linux on the desktop for a long time and so I've gotten used to things, but I don't relate at all with the "desktop Linux is in a terrible state" statement. It works great for me, it's super functional, it's doesn't get in my way. Guess it's not for everyone (like everything), but on the other hand I'm pretty sure my mom would do perfectly fine with just surfing the internet, which is anyway what most people do nowadays. I feel it just took Linux too long, and frankly people have no reason to change, but it really isn't bad at all. Often helping my friends maintaining a virus/bloat/bug free environment on their Windows or Mac machines seems way more complicated.
- bestouff 5y ago
  I totally agree with you. When I have to use a Windows desktop, I feel like being thrown into a mess with inconsistencies, advertisements and software generally working for somebody else than the user. MacOs feels better but way too limited. I love my Gnome desktop.
- igetspam 5y ago
  My four year old and my wife both have Chromebooks that they use daily. I know it's not really a standard Linux distro but it's not far off from what I'm running (coincidentally being Pop_OS! now because I've grown too lazy for Slackware). Desktop Linux is far from terrible and, like you, I remember when it really was. I can remember when it was so bad that sticking to the console was often easier (printing, dial up, irc)
- resonious 5y ago
  I hear so many complaints from my Mac and Windows-using colleagues that just don't happen to me on Linux. It really feels like the tables have turned. The Windows users bend over backwards just to use Linux (WSL) where the only Windows apps running are Google Chrome and VSCode (which also support Linux natively so ??). The Mac folks struggle with performance because of Docker using a VM with poor filesystem sync performance. Again, busting their backs just to use Linux. And it's worse now that they're using these M1 chips that segfault when our app uses FFI. These folks don't even like or use xcode or any mac-only software. I'm still a bit biased in that I know how to set up a good Linux machine and others might still struggle with that. But it really looks like they're already struggling.
TacticalCoder 5y ago
> Nobody makes money on desktop linux and it's in a terrible state. What's terrible about it? Fonts rendering? Or Wayland still not having "won" over XFree86/Xorg? I'm using Linux as my main computer since more than two decades and, if anything, desktop Linux is much better now than it used to be. Browsers and JetBrains' Java written IDE did a lot for that but even though I don't game I know people are playing games on Linux too. I mean: if you're a dev spending your life in browsers and IntelliJ IDEA (heck, or Emacs), Linux is sweet. Desktop Linux is the distant third player after Windows and OS X but what's terrible about it besides its small market share (on the desktop, servers and appliances being another story)?
- JaggerJo 5y ago
  HiDPI screens are still an issue.
  - derekjdanserl 5y ago
    Not for me on Ubuntu 20.04. I use fractional scaling on my laptop and it works perfectly. Just prefer deb installers instead of flatpak and snap, because flatpak and snap aren’t ready yet. HiDPI works great.
  - grogenaut 5y ago
    I finally got them to work well in wayland (literally last night with sway) which supports different resolutions/scaling per monitor unlike xorg. Try out wayland on your desktop, that may be the last part you need. wdisplays to size things. This also seems to be an issue with (albeit likely main use) of running your monitor at double DPI, like you would with a laptop and side monitor. With a 43" 4k monitor and some old 2560x1440 27" monitors the default worked great. Now I just gotta figure out how to get my 2nd nvidia card working on my desktop to get that 5th monitor turned on. Yeah this is several hours of fiddling. I had this working years ago but things got broken, they seem to be on the way to getting fixed. And as other articles have said, I've spent as much or more time unf**ing python on windows, installing WSL2, etc. Really the only things holding me back from a full time windows box were pubg (not a reason now), fusion 360 (can use a VM), and 5+ monitors. If I get those monitors running it's go time. Luckily I have the same computer config at home and at work so it may happen.
derekjdanserl 5y ago
I am a recent convert to Linux Desktop and it doesn’t sound like you’ve used Linux Desktop lately. I use Ubuntu 20.04 and it is far better than Windows or macOS.
- kitsunesoba 5y ago
  It depends a lot on an individual’s needs/preferences. For example if one prefers a macOS-like environment with a global menubar and such, the closest they can probably get is heavily customized KDE, which will still have shortcomings like some apps not integrating with your global menubar. GNOME is closer to iPadOS than macOS, and elementary/Pantheon aesthetically resembles macOS but doesn’t function like it. There’s tons of options for Win9x desktop clones, though. The best of those IMO is Cinnamon, or if configured correctly XFCE and Budgie.
  - derekjdanserl 5y ago
    Well, sure, if you want macOS then macOS will be your best bet. I can’t imagine wanting that very particular and often very awkward top menu bar functionality. I was a heavily invested macOS user for many years and always found it a minor aggravation that I could only have one application’s menu bar up at a time.
    - kitsunesoba 5y ago
      It’s the other way around for me. I use 27”+ monitors most of the time, which makes maximizing windows a waste of screen real estate in most circumstances, so I tend to have odd sized windows which means chasing menubars around the screen under Windows and Linux. Also, increasingly Windows+Linux apps are eschewing menubars entirely in favor of hamburger menus or nothing at all (!!!) which is intensely frustrating. With a system-owned global menubar there’s no excuse for the developer to not have menus. Unfortunately many of the same apps that are resorting to hamburger menus don’t expose their menus through dbus or something similar which breaks global menubars in KDE and those added to other DEs with extensions. I really really wish there were an XDG standard for Linux apps to programmatically expose menus with.
peakaboo 5y ago
Terrible state? Then why am I enjoying using it over Windows and Mac OS every day, to the point I'm going out of my way to convince employers I need to use Linux to be effective? Windows is the most annoying and privacy neglecting operating system in the world, and Apple macbooks have so many random issues that our standus is about those weekly.

xedrac 5y ago

On the contrary, Linux desktop is in a much better state than Windows desktop in my opinion. Windows seems to get worse with every release, while Linux has been making slow and steady improvements. Perhaps I just value the control that Linux gives me more than the warm fuzzy people get knowing that 75% of the population uses their same OS.

shrimp_emoji 5y ago
Alt+Space, a little window pops up in the center of the screen (KRunner). I can type in math equations and I see their solution, I can get word definitions, I can launch apps and more. I have a file manager (Dolphin) with terminal integration, split views, and tabs. Going to Windows feels like a steep UX downgrade from KDE on Linux. :p

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

lumost 5y ago

Anecdotally, I suspect that there is a large enough super premium market for Linux laptops/workstations that look nice and just work. I love Linux, I haven't touched windows in 10 years. My last two forays in linuxhone computing were massive time sucks. I bought a razer blade and it took 1 year for the kernel to catch up with how the razer laptops manage lid closures. I love the system76 and pop is strategy of chasing a great experience for those who need Linux. I can't wait for them to release an in house laptop.

sadfev 5y ago
Unfortunately the competitiveness of x86 for desktop is completely lost now. Apple has destroyed x86. If only Apple had a decent API for GPGPU programming!
GhettoComputers 5y ago
Business laptops such as Lenovo Thinkpad, HP EliteBook, and Dell Latitude already have great support, cheap parts if something breaks and 3rd party support is so good you can install coreboot on them due to hackers who ported them out of passion. This guide is for the x230 (I don’t recommend it due to the TN screens sucking, and the replacement batteries both their replacement is expensive). https://steemit.com/tutorial/@joeyd/run-don-t-walk-from-the-blob https://steemit.com/tutorial/@joeyd/run-don-t-walk-from-the-... https://doc.coreboot.org/distributions.html https://doc.coreboot.org/distributions.html > All ChromeOS devices (Chromebooks, Chromeboxes, Chromebit, etc) released from 2012 onward use coreboot for their main system firmware. Additionally, starting with the 2013 Chromebook Pixel, the firmware running on the Embedded Controller (EC) – a small microcontroller which provides functions like battery management, keyboard support, and sensor interfacing – is open source as well. Wow awesome, if you want good cheap OEM coreboot support, getting native ChromeOS laptops is the easiest.
- lumost 5y ago
  I agree that good cheap chromebooks exist - however what I want doesn't really fall under the "business notebook", "gaming notebook" or "good cheap chromebook" category. I prefer what would typically be offered in a macbook or surface laptop form factor. While I can install linux on a macbook, razer, or surface laptop - it's not exactly a "clean" experience. In fact, even on an expensive "linux" laptop from dell I'm likely to still have a windows key! or non-functional windows hello sensors. Why shouldn't there be built for linux machines? Why should linux users need a tutorial to get their os running?
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    They don’t need a tutorial for most devices, Windows doesn’t work as well out of box either and has tons of hacks to make it run better, so it’s not harder compared to the norm, it’s actually easier. Besides it’s desktop Linux, it wasn’t “just works” for a long time but it’s that way if you do light research on a supported device, then everything works out of box. Linux is designed to support as much hardware as possible so what’s the purpose of buying more expensive hardware with less features if better hardware exists? You don’t need a tutorial, mostly if not all everything out of box works on Linux for every laptop and desktop I used (I don’t buy hardware newer than a few years for price and compatibility reasons) and setup is easier since there’s (almost) no drivers (fuck you Nvidia). It’s just a meta key with a different logo if it bothers you just put a sticker over it. I’d never complain about extra keys or an extra sensor (that can be supported later) and I’m not sure why it’s a problem in the first place. The tutorial linked was just if you wanted coreboot. The surface pro 3 I used had everything working out of box with Ubuntu (Gnome was great on touchscreen). It was very clean. I also love OSX, it is just like Linux for the most part except I can use more software and use the same CLI stuff I’d use on Linux. I don’t care to install it over OSX on a MacBook, is there something you find lacking on it?

yoavm 5y ago

Could be that I've been using Linux on the desktop for a long time and so I've gotten used to things, but I don't relate at all with the "desktop Linux is in a terrible state" statement. It works great for me, it's super functional, it's doesn't get in my way. Guess it's not for everyone (like everything), but on the other hand I'm pretty sure my mom would do perfectly fine with just surfing the internet, which is anyway what most people do nowadays. I feel it just took Linux too long, and frankly people have no reason to change, but it really isn't bad at all. Often helping my friends maintaining a virus/bloat/bug free environment on their Windows or Mac machines seems way more complicated.

bestouff 5y ago
I totally agree with you. When I have to use a Windows desktop, I feel like being thrown into a mess with inconsistencies, advertisements and software generally working for somebody else than the user. MacOs feels better but way too limited. I love my Gnome desktop.
igetspam 5y ago
My four year old and my wife both have Chromebooks that they use daily. I know it's not really a standard Linux distro but it's not far off from what I'm running (coincidentally being Pop_OS! now because I've grown too lazy for Slackware). Desktop Linux is far from terrible and, like you, I remember when it really was. I can remember when it was so bad that sticking to the console was often easier (printing, dial up, irc)
resonious 5y ago
I hear so many complaints from my Mac and Windows-using colleagues that just don't happen to me on Linux. It really feels like the tables have turned. The Windows users bend over backwards just to use Linux (WSL) where the only Windows apps running are Google Chrome and VSCode (which also support Linux natively so ??). The Mac folks struggle with performance because of Docker using a VM with poor filesystem sync performance. Again, busting their backs just to use Linux. And it's worse now that they're using these M1 chips that segfault when our app uses FFI. These folks don't even like or use xcode or any mac-only software. I'm still a bit biased in that I know how to set up a good Linux machine and others might still struggle with that. But it really looks like they're already struggling.

TacticalCoder 5y ago

> Nobody makes money on desktop linux and it's in a terrible state. What's terrible about it? Fonts rendering? Or Wayland still not having "won" over XFree86/Xorg? I'm using Linux as my main computer since more than two decades and, if anything, desktop Linux is much better now than it used to be. Browsers and JetBrains' Java written IDE did a lot for that but even though I don't game I know people are playing games on Linux too. I mean: if you're a dev spending your life in browsers and IntelliJ IDEA (heck, or Emacs), Linux is sweet. Desktop Linux is the distant third player after Windows and OS X but what's terrible about it besides its small market share (on the desktop, servers and appliances being another story)?

JaggerJo 5y ago
HiDPI screens are still an issue.
- derekjdanserl 5y ago
  Not for me on Ubuntu 20.04. I use fractional scaling on my laptop and it works perfectly. Just prefer deb installers instead of flatpak and snap, because flatpak and snap aren’t ready yet. HiDPI works great.
- grogenaut 5y ago
  I finally got them to work well in wayland (literally last night with sway) which supports different resolutions/scaling per monitor unlike xorg. Try out wayland on your desktop, that may be the last part you need. wdisplays to size things. This also seems to be an issue with (albeit likely main use) of running your monitor at double DPI, like you would with a laptop and side monitor. With a 43" 4k monitor and some old 2560x1440 27" monitors the default worked great. Now I just gotta figure out how to get my 2nd nvidia card working on my desktop to get that 5th monitor turned on. Yeah this is several hours of fiddling. I had this working years ago but things got broken, they seem to be on the way to getting fixed. And as other articles have said, I've spent as much or more time unf**ing python on windows, installing WSL2, etc. Really the only things holding me back from a full time windows box were pubg (not a reason now), fusion 360 (can use a VM), and 5+ monitors. If I get those monitors running it's go time. Luckily I have the same computer config at home and at work so it may happen.

derekjdanserl 5y ago

I am a recent convert to Linux Desktop and it doesn’t sound like you’ve used Linux Desktop lately. I use Ubuntu 20.04 and it is far better than Windows or macOS.

kitsunesoba 5y ago
It depends a lot on an individual’s needs/preferences. For example if one prefers a macOS-like environment with a global menubar and such, the closest they can probably get is heavily customized KDE, which will still have shortcomings like some apps not integrating with your global menubar. GNOME is closer to iPadOS than macOS, and elementary/Pantheon aesthetically resembles macOS but doesn’t function like it. There’s tons of options for Win9x desktop clones, though. The best of those IMO is Cinnamon, or if configured correctly XFCE and Budgie.
- derekjdanserl 5y ago
  Well, sure, if you want macOS then macOS will be your best bet. I can’t imagine wanting that very particular and often very awkward top menu bar functionality. I was a heavily invested macOS user for many years and always found it a minor aggravation that I could only have one application’s menu bar up at a time.
  - kitsunesoba 5y ago
    It’s the other way around for me. I use 27”+ monitors most of the time, which makes maximizing windows a waste of screen real estate in most circumstances, so I tend to have odd sized windows which means chasing menubars around the screen under Windows and Linux. Also, increasingly Windows+Linux apps are eschewing menubars entirely in favor of hamburger menus or nothing at all (!!!) which is intensely frustrating. With a system-owned global menubar there’s no excuse for the developer to not have menus. Unfortunately many of the same apps that are resorting to hamburger menus don’t expose their menus through dbus or something similar which breaks global menubars in KDE and those added to other DEs with extensions. I really really wish there were an XDG standard for Linux apps to programmatically expose menus with.

peakaboo 5y ago

Terrible state? Then why am I enjoying using it over Windows and Mac OS every day, to the point I'm going out of my way to convince employers I need to use Linux to be effective? Windows is the most annoying and privacy neglecting operating system in the world, and Apple macbooks have so many random issues that our standus is about those weekly.