8 ms·

The Gunpowder Plot

64 points by datelligence 5y ago

airstrike 5y ago
A day early, no?
- KMag 5y ago
  That depends on your time zone. It's the 5th of November here in Thailand.
  - airstrike 5y ago
    It's 3:30am in Thailand...
    - KMag 5y ago
      ... my young son needs night feedings.
    - ggm 5y ago
      How close to lèse majesté is this thread though? different royalty, different religion, but criminalised thought crime in Thailand?
- wyldfire 5y ago
  Not in the UK.
  - ectopod 5y ago
    Did you forget to put your clocks back on Sunday?
gigatexal 5y ago
This is one of the best podcasts on the internet. Love it. It’s got me into history.
dang 5y ago
A couple past threads, but I feel like there have been others: Guy Fawkes night’s oddest traditions are due to a 1606 law (2014) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15630581 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15630581 - Nov 2017 (51 comments) Guy Fawkes Day - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3200117 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3200117 - Nov 2011 (4 comments)
zeteo 5y ago
English kings flirted on and off with Catholicism throughout the 1600s, up to the point where in 1685 the old king converted on his deathbed and his successor was an unapologetic Catholic. For Protestants during this time it was often difficult to thread the needle of being anti-Catholic without appearing disloyal to the king. Constant remembrance of the Gunpowder Plot provided a saving grace out of this dilemma. Protestants cared too much about the monarch's life to stop being suspicious about Catholicism, regardless of what he might tell them otherwise. There were strong political reasons to make a lot out of the Gunpowder Plot as late as 1745, when a Catholic-led invasion army made it most of the way to London.
123pie123 5y ago
My (non uk) friend ask me a simple question.. Is the 5th November a celebration of Guy Fawlkes getting captured or a celebration of him trying to get rid of the government I thought everyone/ most UK people would know the real answer and after asking around it appears it's not clear cut. Anecdotically (asking about 8 people from the UK) 5 people thought bonfire day was celebrated for Guy Fawlkes being captured. (ie killed for trying to burn down parliament) but a few (3) of the 5 people I asked where mostly guessing and was not really sure.
- hcho 5y ago
  Former. The latter became a thing after V for Vendetta.
- pmyteh 5y ago
  The former. The pope was also burned in effigy alongside or in place of Guy Fawkes: a celebration of the defeat of the plot and the continuation of the protestant succession to the crown.
- onion2k 5y ago
  I think it varies depending on how much we dislike the current government.
- lordnacho 5y ago
  Common quip in the UK is he was the only man ever to enter parliament with honest intentions.
- fennecfoxen 5y ago
  If Guy Fawkes day had a modern USA equivalent, it would be celebrated on September 11, and we would burn Osama bin Laden in effigy; the anti-Islamic overtones would be incredibly unfortunate, but become more obscure with time.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - 5y ago
open-source-ux 5y ago
At the risk of lowering the tone a notch on this subject... For anyone who isn't familiar with the Gunpowder Plot, I can't resist posting this comedic (but factually accurate) video - the basic facts in just 3 minutes. This is from the brilliant BBC children's show Horrible Histories: Guy Fawkes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40UuVVsYtaM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40UuVVsYtaM (And if you like that, watch Protect thy privacy settings! also featuring Guy Fawkes: https://www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/watch/p01g2pt6 https://www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/watch/p01g2pt6)
SuoDuanDao 5y ago
This is a long shot, but years ago a friend recited a poem in honor of Guy Fawkes day. All I remember of it was that it ended with "...and an inch of rope to hang him". Does anyone recognise this fragment? I'd love to know the full version.
- philk10 5y ago
  A rope, a rope to hang the Pope? - http://www.potw.org/archive/potw405.html http://www.potw.org/archive/potw405.html
- mig39 5y ago
  Is it "The Fifth of November" ? Doesn't have that exact line, though.
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
Here's the strange thing about Guy Fawkes. In 1984, the IRA managed to set off a bomb in an attempt to wipe out most of the then-Conservative Party government of the UK. They got the timing wrong, and had almost no impact on governance although some people died and more were injured. If Nov 5th is celebrated because Guy Fawkes failed, why do we not also celebrate October 12th? If Nov 5th is celebrated because Guy Fawkes tried, why do we not also celebrate Oct 12th?
- bobsmooth 5y ago
  Fawkes was captured, tortured and then publicly executed. Are there any infamous IRA agents?
  - ben_w 5y ago
    Yes, for various values of infamous, including at least one elected MP who was elected while in prison and who then died from a hunger strike while still in prison. I can’t speak to who likes/hates who and how much, but the murals in Belfast were hard to miss even as a tourist. https://www.mentalfloss.com/photos/555460/20-militant-murals-northern-ireland https://www.mentalfloss.com/photos/555460/20-militant-murals...
- klelatti 5y ago
  One theory: Nov 5th was a failed coup and the state had an interest in reminding people of that failure and the consequences for the plotters. Oct 12th was a lapse in the security surrounding the government and so the state had no interest in reminding people of that failure.
- ogogmad 5y ago
  Your mistake is thinking that there's a because. People originally celebrated Nov 5th because they lived in a period in which such things were thought worthy of celebrating. It continues to be celebrated only because it's a long tradition now. Celebrating such a thing is considered to be in bad taste nowadays, but inertia is inertia.
  - 5y ago
CapitalistCartr 5y ago
November the Fifth is my anniversary, my idea. So I remember my anniversary.
- MrWiffles 5y ago
  You, sir, are a clever man indeed.
ggm 5y ago
Terry Pratchett wrote a footnote about bonfire night, and safely watching fireworks.
Grazester 5y ago
Bonfire night is still celebrated in one of the towns of the commonwealth I am from. Guy Fawkes is dressed up days in advance and put on display. The town then gathers and matches from end to end(about a 1.5 miles) and then goes to the cemetery to burn Guy Fawkes. There is no mistaking that this is not a celebration of his death but his also success in rebellion.
FridayoLeary 5y ago
His face lives on...
throwawaybutwhy 5y ago
Two random thoughts: Thought A: Celebrating religious persecution, cleansing, and atrocities is kinda lame. Thought B: As far as plots go, just how many people are aware of the plot against Harold Wilson, I wonder?
neartheplain 5y ago
To see if the plot would've worked had the conspirators not been arrested, ITV built a replica of the House of Lords as it stood in 1605, placed barrels of gunpowder underneath it just as Fawkes would have done, and lit the fuse. The explosion was enormous, much bigger than I personally would've expected for black powder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2G8k7zXhkI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2G8k7zXhkI Full documentary, hosted by Top Gear's Richard Hammond: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1b2w4GxBU0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1b2w4GxBU0

The Gunpowder Plot

64 points by datelligence 5y ago

airstrike 5y ago

A day early, no?

KMag 5y ago
That depends on your time zone. It's the 5th of November here in Thailand.
- airstrike 5y ago
  It's 3:30am in Thailand...
  - KMag 5y ago
    ... my young son needs night feedings.
  - ggm 5y ago
    How close to lèse majesté is this thread though? different royalty, different religion, but criminalised thought crime in Thailand?
wyldfire 5y ago
Not in the UK.
- ectopod 5y ago
  Did you forget to put your clocks back on Sunday?

gigatexal 5y ago

This is one of the best podcasts on the internet. Love it. It’s got me into history.

dang 5y ago

A couple past threads, but I feel like there have been others: Guy Fawkes night’s oddest traditions are due to a 1606 law (2014) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15630581 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15630581 - Nov 2017 (51 comments) Guy Fawkes Day - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3200117 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3200117 - Nov 2011 (4 comments)

zeteo 5y ago

English kings flirted on and off with Catholicism throughout the 1600s, up to the point where in 1685 the old king converted on his deathbed and his successor was an unapologetic Catholic. For Protestants during this time it was often difficult to thread the needle of being anti-Catholic without appearing disloyal to the king. Constant remembrance of the Gunpowder Plot provided a saving grace out of this dilemma. Protestants cared too much about the monarch's life to stop being suspicious about Catholicism, regardless of what he might tell them otherwise. There were strong political reasons to make a lot out of the Gunpowder Plot as late as 1745, when a Catholic-led invasion army made it most of the way to London.

123pie123 5y ago

My (non uk) friend ask me a simple question.. Is the 5th November a celebration of Guy Fawlkes getting captured or a celebration of him trying to get rid of the government I thought everyone/ most UK people would know the real answer and after asking around it appears it's not clear cut. Anecdotically (asking about 8 people from the UK) 5 people thought bonfire day was celebrated for Guy Fawlkes being captured. (ie killed for trying to burn down parliament) but a few (3) of the 5 people I asked where mostly guessing and was not really sure.

hcho 5y ago
Former. The latter became a thing after V for Vendetta.
pmyteh 5y ago
The former. The pope was also burned in effigy alongside or in place of Guy Fawkes: a celebration of the defeat of the plot and the continuation of the protestant succession to the crown.
onion2k 5y ago
I think it varies depending on how much we dislike the current government.
lordnacho 5y ago
Common quip in the UK is he was the only man ever to enter parliament with honest intentions.
fennecfoxen 5y ago
If Guy Fawkes day had a modern USA equivalent, it would be celebrated on September 11, and we would burn Osama bin Laden in effigy; the anti-Islamic overtones would be incredibly unfortunate, but become more obscure with time.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- 5y ago

open-source-ux 5y ago

At the risk of lowering the tone a notch on this subject... For anyone who isn't familiar with the Gunpowder Plot, I can't resist posting this comedic (but factually accurate) video - the basic facts in just 3 minutes. This is from the brilliant BBC children's show Horrible Histories: Guy Fawkes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40UuVVsYtaM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40UuVVsYtaM (And if you like that, watch Protect thy privacy settings! also featuring Guy Fawkes: https://www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/watch/p01g2pt6 https://www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/watch/p01g2pt6)

SuoDuanDao 5y ago

This is a long shot, but years ago a friend recited a poem in honor of Guy Fawkes day. All I remember of it was that it ended with "...and an inch of rope to hang him". Does anyone recognise this fragment? I'd love to know the full version.

philk10 5y ago
A rope, a rope to hang the Pope? - http://www.potw.org/archive/potw405.html http://www.potw.org/archive/potw405.html
mig39 5y ago
Is it "The Fifth of November" ? Doesn't have that exact line, though.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

Here's the strange thing about Guy Fawkes. In 1984, the IRA managed to set off a bomb in an attempt to wipe out most of the then-Conservative Party government of the UK. They got the timing wrong, and had almost no impact on governance although some people died and more were injured. If Nov 5th is celebrated because Guy Fawkes failed, why do we not also celebrate October 12th? If Nov 5th is celebrated because Guy Fawkes tried, why do we not also celebrate Oct 12th?

bobsmooth 5y ago
Fawkes was captured, tortured and then publicly executed. Are there any infamous IRA agents?
- ben_w 5y ago
  Yes, for various values of infamous, including at least one elected MP who was elected while in prison and who then died from a hunger strike while still in prison. I can’t speak to who likes/hates who and how much, but the murals in Belfast were hard to miss even as a tourist. https://www.mentalfloss.com/photos/555460/20-militant-murals-northern-ireland https://www.mentalfloss.com/photos/555460/20-militant-murals...
klelatti 5y ago
One theory: Nov 5th was a failed coup and the state had an interest in reminding people of that failure and the consequences for the plotters. Oct 12th was a lapse in the security surrounding the government and so the state had no interest in reminding people of that failure.
ogogmad 5y ago
Your mistake is thinking that there's a because. People originally celebrated Nov 5th because they lived in a period in which such things were thought worthy of celebrating. It continues to be celebrated only because it's a long tradition now. Celebrating such a thing is considered to be in bad taste nowadays, but inertia is inertia.
- 5y ago

CapitalistCartr 5y ago

November the Fifth is my anniversary, my idea. So I remember my anniversary.

MrWiffles 5y ago
You, sir, are a clever man indeed.

ggm 5y ago

Terry Pratchett wrote a footnote about bonfire night, and safely watching fireworks.

Grazester 5y ago

Bonfire night is still celebrated in one of the towns of the commonwealth I am from. Guy Fawkes is dressed up days in advance and put on display. The town then gathers and matches from end to end(about a 1.5 miles) and then goes to the cemetery to burn Guy Fawkes. There is no mistaking that this is not a celebration of his death but his also success in rebellion.

FridayoLeary 5y ago

His face lives on...

throwawaybutwhy 5y ago

Two random thoughts: Thought A: Celebrating religious persecution, cleansing, and atrocities is kinda lame. Thought B: As far as plots go, just how many people are aware of the plot against Harold Wilson, I wonder?

neartheplain 5y ago

To see if the plot would've worked had the conspirators not been arrested, ITV built a replica of the House of Lords as it stood in 1605, placed barrels of gunpowder underneath it just as Fawkes would have done, and lit the fuse. The explosion was enormous, much bigger than I personally would've expected for black powder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2G8k7zXhkI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2G8k7zXhkI Full documentary, hosted by Top Gear's Richard Hammond: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1b2w4GxBU0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1b2w4GxBU0