6 ms·

"When you say "We want our manufacturing jobs back", this is the kind of job you really want. It is easily the worst legal job I've heard of in a first-world na

by Klinky 15y ago

"When you say "We want our manufacturing jobs back", this is the kind of job you really want. It is easily the worst legal job I've heard of in a first-world nation." How about cleaning up after old people when they mess themselves? How about any of the DVD sorting facilities at Netflix, which is practically the exact job you described? How about the massive amount of call centers we have in the US? How about almost any low level job in agriculture? I don't think your imagination is deep enough to fathom how bad a job can really be, even in a first world nation. There are plenty of people who are willing to work or already work a monotonous or difficult job for low pay here in the US. More investment should go into automation, but given that the world labor market makes humans so cheap(mainly due to not having the care about the workers health or safety), human labor usually wins out. Once all these jobs go to automation, what do you do with the workers? That is then societies problem really, we'll need to figure out if there should be a social net that guides people into higher education so we have people building/repairing robots instead of doing what the robots are actually doing. Given the vested interests in the status quo, this is probably not too likely to happen in the near future.

latch 15y ago
I don't think you are 100% wrong, but I can't let this one slide: How about cleaning up after old people when they mess themselves? You know, some people actually appreciate what their parents have done and take pride (or at least sympathy) paying back that debt when the time comes. I'm not sure that you grasp the working conditions in some parts of Asia (i live in Hong Kong). People would be willing to take the job, but they'd ask for benefits that wouldn't even compare. I don't think there are, as you say, plenty of people willing to take on these types of jobs in their present state. In fact, there are already sectors in the US that are having a hard time finding people because people have generally become too prideful. Just look at the skilled trade problem, which is way better work than what patio11 is talking about.
- Klinky 15y ago
  "You know, some people actually appreciate what their parents have done and take pride (or at least sympathy) paying back that debt when the time comes." I was speaking more about people who work in assisted living facilities or nursing homes who do not know the people they clean up after personally. Often these people are probably lucky to be making $13/hr an a hour. Just like there are those who don't mind such a job, I am sure there are those who don't mind sorting gaskets either. "I'm not sure that you grasp the working conditions in some parts of Asia (i live in Hong Kong)." Are you suggesting they're good or bad? There are some decent places to work in Asia if you're on top. Job conditions are slowly improving, but often you'll still hear about workers living in boarding houses provided by the company so they can work 12 - 16 hours days 6 days a week. Additionally patio11 was talking about first world countries... "I don't think there are, as you say, plenty of people willing to take on these types of jobs in their present state. In fact, there are already sectors in the US that are having a hard time finding people because people have generally become too prideful." You probably aren't looking too hard then. In the current economy you have people with masters & PhDs applying at McDonalds or other low wage/low skill jobs. Often these employers do not hire these people because of "over-qualifications". I also don't think that a lack of skilled tradesmen is due to pride, but perhaps due to a refocusing towards service sector jobs & the deterioration of our education system. The US does not have a standardized vocational education path & often many "vocational colleges" here are scammy for profit colleges that offer little benefit & a lot of debt to their students.
- joe_the_user 15y ago
  In fact, there are already sectors in the US that are having a hard time finding people because people have generally become too prideful. Just look at the skilled trade problem, which is way better work than what patio11 is talking about. Any company in the US that pays significantly more than minimum wage and which claims "we can't find workers" is basically lying. When they say "we can't find workers to do X" what they meaning is "we can't worker to do X [low-voice-over]between the ages of 23 and 27 who graduated in the top 15% of their class, with six+ year of experience in X and who have strong willingness to work 100 hours/week and able to start yesterday[/low-voice-over]"
  - NoPiece 15y ago
    How about nursing? The starting pay averages three to four times minimum wage, but there is still a shortage. It is easy to underestimate the mismatch between the skills required today, and the typical skills of the unemployed. However, your example does ring true to me in the engineering world.
    - pessimizer 15y ago
      Nursing is a highly skilled job that requires college education, like programming, except that it requires college education.
      - NoPiece 15y ago
        The entry level positions I am talking (Licensed Practical Nurse) about don't require a college degree, just a 6 month certification. There are also tiers of nursing available via an AA program. Regardless, they are decent paying jobs, and they are hard to fill.
        pessimizer 15y ago
        There isn't a shortage of LPNs. In a lot of places there are an excess of LPNs.
  - 15y ago
sp4rki 15y ago
All the jobs you mention make substantially more money and I can assure you have better work conditions than a gasket manufacturing plant located in Japan's manufacturing hub. I'd rather be earning a living by means of a nursing job that pays at least 5 times (more like 10 times in the US) what a Japanese gasket plucker makes. And I get the bonus that I can feel great because even though I have to clean shit, I make someone's life more bearable and get to take care of human beings that appreciate that I'm contributing to humanity instead of rotting away any chance of developing my intellect by spending 12 hours plucking gaskets. Also, the solution to the automation problem is not higher education, the solution is the return of the skilled laborer. You can't automate a robot to drive to a customer's house, cut open some drywall, fix a plumbing leak, restructure some electric piping to a new section of the wall, install a socket, make a report and get it signed by the customer, get payed, drive back to the company hub, and finally give you the money. Hell you can't automate a robot to make custom dragon blood forged steel swords, which we'll probably need for the zombie apocalypse. Bachelor and masters degrees are currently too easy to get to the point even a monkey could get a bachelors these days, specially if it's a wealthy monkey. The result is that GOOD plumbers, electricians, or dragon blood forged steel sword making blacksmiths are so hard to get this days because all the offspring of skilled laborers want to go to a fancy school to be doctors, lawyers, or architects, because it's all the rage to get a university degree this days.
- stevenbedrick 15y ago
  > I'd rather be earning a living by means of a nursing job that pays at least 5 times (more like 10 times in the US) what a Japanese gasket plucker makes. For what it's worth, most people actually doing the "cleaning up after the elderly" job are certified nursing assistants, who often earn basically a notch or two above minimum wage.
  - 0x0x0x 15y ago
    And coming from a medical family, I don't think most CNAs are thinking of the greater good when they're wiping those asses.
- pessimizer 15y ago

by Klinky 15y ago

latch 15y ago

I don't think you are 100% wrong, but I can't let this one slide: How about cleaning up after old people when they mess themselves? You know, some people actually appreciate what their parents have done and take pride (or at least sympathy) paying back that debt when the time comes. I'm not sure that you grasp the working conditions in some parts of Asia (i live in Hong Kong). People would be willing to take the job, but they'd ask for benefits that wouldn't even compare. I don't think there are, as you say, plenty of people willing to take on these types of jobs in their present state. In fact, there are already sectors in the US that are having a hard time finding people because people have generally become too prideful. Just look at the skilled trade problem, which is way better work than what patio11 is talking about.

Klinky 15y ago
"You know, some people actually appreciate what their parents have done and take pride (or at least sympathy) paying back that debt when the time comes." I was speaking more about people who work in assisted living facilities or nursing homes who do not know the people they clean up after personally. Often these people are probably lucky to be making $13/hr an a hour. Just like there are those who don't mind such a job, I am sure there are those who don't mind sorting gaskets either. "I'm not sure that you grasp the working conditions in some parts of Asia (i live in Hong Kong)." Are you suggesting they're good or bad? There are some decent places to work in Asia if you're on top. Job conditions are slowly improving, but often you'll still hear about workers living in boarding houses provided by the company so they can work 12 - 16 hours days 6 days a week. Additionally patio11 was talking about first world countries... "I don't think there are, as you say, plenty of people willing to take on these types of jobs in their present state. In fact, there are already sectors in the US that are having a hard time finding people because people have generally become too prideful." You probably aren't looking too hard then. In the current economy you have people with masters & PhDs applying at McDonalds or other low wage/low skill jobs. Often these employers do not hire these people because of "over-qualifications". I also don't think that a lack of skilled tradesmen is due to pride, but perhaps due to a refocusing towards service sector jobs & the deterioration of our education system. The US does not have a standardized vocational education path & often many "vocational colleges" here are scammy for profit colleges that offer little benefit & a lot of debt to their students.
joe_the_user 15y ago
In fact, there are already sectors in the US that are having a hard time finding people because people have generally become too prideful. Just look at the skilled trade problem, which is way better work than what patio11 is talking about. Any company in the US that pays significantly more than minimum wage and which claims "we can't find workers" is basically lying. When they say "we can't find workers to do X" what they meaning is "we can't worker to do X [low-voice-over]between the ages of 23 and 27 who graduated in the top 15% of their class, with six+ year of experience in X and who have strong willingness to work 100 hours/week and able to start yesterday[/low-voice-over]"
- NoPiece 15y ago
  How about nursing? The starting pay averages three to four times minimum wage, but there is still a shortage. It is easy to underestimate the mismatch between the skills required today, and the typical skills of the unemployed. However, your example does ring true to me in the engineering world.
  - pessimizer 15y ago
    Nursing is a highly skilled job that requires college education, like programming, except that it requires college education.
    - NoPiece 15y ago
      The entry level positions I am talking (Licensed Practical Nurse) about don't require a college degree, just a 6 month certification. There are also tiers of nursing available via an AA program. Regardless, they are decent paying jobs, and they are hard to fill.
      - pessimizer 15y ago
        There isn't a shortage of LPNs. In a lot of places there are an excess of LPNs.
- 15y ago

sp4rki 15y ago

All the jobs you mention make substantially more money and I can assure you have better work conditions than a gasket manufacturing plant located in Japan's manufacturing hub. I'd rather be earning a living by means of a nursing job that pays at least 5 times (more like 10 times in the US) what a Japanese gasket plucker makes. And I get the bonus that I can feel great because even though I have to clean shit, I make someone's life more bearable and get to take care of human beings that appreciate that I'm contributing to humanity instead of rotting away any chance of developing my intellect by spending 12 hours plucking gaskets. Also, the solution to the automation problem is not higher education, the solution is the return of the skilled laborer. You can't automate a robot to drive to a customer's house, cut open some drywall, fix a plumbing leak, restructure some electric piping to a new section of the wall, install a socket, make a report and get it signed by the customer, get payed, drive back to the company hub, and finally give you the money. Hell you can't automate a robot to make custom dragon blood forged steel swords, which we'll probably need for the zombie apocalypse. Bachelor and masters degrees are currently too easy to get to the point even a monkey could get a bachelors these days, specially if it's a wealthy monkey. The result is that GOOD plumbers, electricians, or dragon blood forged steel sword making blacksmiths are so hard to get this days because all the offspring of skilled laborers want to go to a fancy school to be doctors, lawyers, or architects, because it's all the rage to get a university degree this days.

stevenbedrick 15y ago
> I'd rather be earning a living by means of a nursing job that pays at least 5 times (more like 10 times in the US) what a Japanese gasket plucker makes. For what it's worth, most people actually doing the "cleaning up after the elderly" job are certified nursing assistants, who often earn basically a notch or two above minimum wage.
- 0x0x0x 15y ago
  And coming from a medical family, I don't think most CNAs are thinking of the greater good when they're wiping those asses.
pessimizer 15y ago