4 ms·

An interesting point raised in the NPR piece is that sometimes your basket stays the same at the same price, but the content is actually inferior in subtle and

An interesting point raised in the NPR piece is that sometimes your basket stays the same at the same price, but the content is actually inferior in subtle and not so subtle ways. My personal observation on the snacks I buy: they are the same volume and taste mostly the same, but the ingredients shifted over time, in particular relating to flavor (e.g. less sugar and more "sugary stuff") BTW In parallel they introduced "rich" versions that are more "luxury", clearly distinct from the standard product, and contain better ingredients overall. I'd expect a number of people to have switched to the pricer version, even if they were really seeking the "old" standard version.

quickthrower2 5y ago
I think they try to account for this in a hedonic index - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_index
- makomk 5y ago
  Pretty sure that only accounts for easy-to-measure headline specifications - for example, it takes into account that people are buying 55" TVs when a few years ago they might've bought 32" TVs, but ignores the fact that you need to buy a 55" TV to get similar sound and picture quality to a 32" TV from a few years ago due to quality reductions in smaller sets. Also, I strongly suspect any methodology using measurements of how much extra people were willing to pay when both were available overestimates the value of the improvements to all the other people who switched to the "better" product when the cheaper one was discontinued, since most of them didn't consider paying the extra to be worth it. For example, if someone needs a flash drive to transfer small documents around buys a 32GB one when they would've bought a 8GB one a few years ago because that's now the option that's cheap to manufacture and readily available, they don't get the same benefit that someone who paid extra for the 32GB model over the 8GB a few years ago did.
  - nradov 5y ago
    Your facts are wrong. At the same price point, the 32" TVs available today have better picture and sound quality than those from a few years ago. Check the archived manufacturer specifications and independent reviews.
    - AlexandrB 5y ago
      They also have ads and harvest viewing data because of "smart" features. I'm convinced that failing to treat collected user data and wasted time as a real cost distorts economic analysis of the modern tech sector. For example, you could argue that no one is harmed by Google's near-monopoly on search because consumer prices aren't going up (it's still free!). But if you consider data collected and time wasted scrolling past ads Google's services have been getting steadily more expensive for years. Of course measuring these costs in an consistent, objective way is extremely difficult :(
smackay 5y ago
Black beans are another example. There are various brands available here. The expensive ones had more/all beans that were black in colour while the cheaper, particularly store brands, were all dark brown. Presumably there are different grades of beans so the price of the can was a predictor of the colour of the contents. Now when you open a can, regardless of brand, they are almost universally dark brown.
- Puts 5y ago
  I actually noticed this too the other day with my regular brand. The beans in the package was brown. Never seen that before so I was mildly confused.
throw0101a 5y ago
> An interesting point raised in the NPR piece is that sometimes your basket stays the same at the same price, but the content is actually inferior in subtle and not so subtle ways. And sometimes the content is actually superior. A US$ 30K nowadays is generally much better than a similarly priced car from 10 or 20 years ago. The iPhone was released in the United States in 2007 at the price of $499 for the 4 GB model and $599 for the 8 GB model: what kind of tech can you get for the same prices nowadays? Everyone seems to ignore deflation, especially due to technology. This 1991 Radio Shack add illustrates the point quite well IMHO: > There are 15 electronic gimzo type items on this page, being sold from America’s Technology Store. 13 of the 15 you now always have in your pocket. > So here’s the list of what I’ve replaced with my iPhone. > * All weather personal stereo, [*US*]$11.88. I now use my iPhone with an Otter Box. > * AM/FM clock radio, $13.88. iPhone. > * In-Ear Stereo Phones, $7.88. Came with iPhone. > * Microthin calculator, $4.88. Swipe up on iPhone. > * Tandy 1000 TL/3, $1599. I actually owned a Tandy 1000, and I used it for games and word processing. I now do most of both of those things on my phone. > * VHS Camcorder, $799. iPhone. > * Mobile Cellular Telephone, $199. Obvs. > * Mobile CB, $49.95. Ad says “You’ll never drive ‘alone’ again!” iPhone. > * 20-Memory Speed-Dial phone, $29.95. > * Deluxe Portable CD Player, $159.95. 80 minutes of music, or 80 hours of music? iPhone. > * 10-Channel Desktop Scanner, $99.55. I still have a scanner, but I have a scanner app, too. iPhone. > * Easiest-to-Use Phone Answerer, $49.95. iPhone voicemail. > * Handheld Cassette Tape Recorder, $29.95. I use the Voice Memo app almost daily. > * BONUS REPLACEMENT: It’s not an item for sale, but at the bottom of the ad, you’re instructed to ‘check your phone book for the Radio Shack Store nearest you.’ Do you even know how to use a phone book? > You’d have spent $3,054.82 in 1991 to buy all the stuff in this ad that you can now do with your phone. * https://www.huffpost.com/entry/radio-shack-ad_b_4612973 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/radio-shack-ad_b_4612973 That US$1600 Tandy 1600 runs a 286 CPU and has a 20MB hard drive, and supported 640×200×16 resolution (720×350 mode for monochrome monitors): * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandy_1000#Tandy_1000_SL_and_TL_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandy_1000#Tandy_1000_SL_and_T... What kind of system can you get for $1600 nowadays?
- nradov 5y ago
  I always found it funny how most economists claim that deflation would be disastrous because customers would keep delaying purchases while waiting for prices to drop further. And yet everyone keeps buying computers even though we've had almost continuous deflation for decades.

quickthrower2 5y ago

I think they try to account for this in a hedonic index - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_index

makomk 5y ago
Pretty sure that only accounts for easy-to-measure headline specifications - for example, it takes into account that people are buying 55" TVs when a few years ago they might've bought 32" TVs, but ignores the fact that you need to buy a 55" TV to get similar sound and picture quality to a 32" TV from a few years ago due to quality reductions in smaller sets. Also, I strongly suspect any methodology using measurements of how much extra people were willing to pay when both were available overestimates the value of the improvements to all the other people who switched to the "better" product when the cheaper one was discontinued, since most of them didn't consider paying the extra to be worth it. For example, if someone needs a flash drive to transfer small documents around buys a 32GB one when they would've bought a 8GB one a few years ago because that's now the option that's cheap to manufacture and readily available, they don't get the same benefit that someone who paid extra for the 32GB model over the 8GB a few years ago did.
- nradov 5y ago
  Your facts are wrong. At the same price point, the 32" TVs available today have better picture and sound quality than those from a few years ago. Check the archived manufacturer specifications and independent reviews.
  - AlexandrB 5y ago
    They also have ads and harvest viewing data because of "smart" features. I'm convinced that failing to treat collected user data and wasted time as a real cost distorts economic analysis of the modern tech sector. For example, you could argue that no one is harmed by Google's near-monopoly on search because consumer prices aren't going up (it's still free!). But if you consider data collected and time wasted scrolling past ads Google's services have been getting steadily more expensive for years. Of course measuring these costs in an consistent, objective way is extremely difficult :(

smackay 5y ago

Black beans are another example. There are various brands available here. The expensive ones had more/all beans that were black in colour while the cheaper, particularly store brands, were all dark brown. Presumably there are different grades of beans so the price of the can was a predictor of the colour of the contents. Now when you open a can, regardless of brand, they are almost universally dark brown.

Puts 5y ago
I actually noticed this too the other day with my regular brand. The beans in the package was brown. Never seen that before so I was mildly confused.

throw0101a 5y ago

> An interesting point raised in the NPR piece is that sometimes your basket stays the same at the same price, but the content is actually inferior in subtle and not so subtle ways. And sometimes the content is actually superior. A US$ 30K nowadays is generally much better than a similarly priced car from 10 or 20 years ago. The iPhone was released in the United States in 2007 at the price of $499 for the 4 GB model and $599 for the 8 GB model: what kind of tech can you get for the same prices nowadays? Everyone seems to ignore deflation, especially due to technology. This 1991 Radio Shack add illustrates the point quite well IMHO: > There are 15 electronic gimzo type items on this page, being sold from America’s Technology Store. 13 of the 15 you now always have in your pocket. > So here’s the list of what I’ve replaced with my iPhone. > * All weather personal stereo, [*US*]$11.88. I now use my iPhone with an Otter Box. > * AM/FM clock radio, $13.88. iPhone. > * In-Ear Stereo Phones, $7.88. Came with iPhone. > * Microthin calculator, $4.88. Swipe up on iPhone. > * Tandy 1000 TL/3, $1599. I actually owned a Tandy 1000, and I used it for games and word processing. I now do most of both of those things on my phone. > * VHS Camcorder, $799. iPhone. > * Mobile Cellular Telephone, $199. Obvs. > * Mobile CB, $49.95. Ad says “You’ll never drive ‘alone’ again!” iPhone. > * 20-Memory Speed-Dial phone, $29.95. > * Deluxe Portable CD Player, $159.95. 80 minutes of music, or 80 hours of music? iPhone. > * 10-Channel Desktop Scanner, $99.55. I still have a scanner, but I have a scanner app, too. iPhone. > * Easiest-to-Use Phone Answerer, $49.95. iPhone voicemail. > * Handheld Cassette Tape Recorder, $29.95. I use the Voice Memo app almost daily. > * BONUS REPLACEMENT: It’s not an item for sale, but at the bottom of the ad, you’re instructed to ‘check your phone book for the Radio Shack Store nearest you.’ Do you even know how to use a phone book? > You’d have spent $3,054.82 in 1991 to buy all the stuff in this ad that you can now do with your phone. * https://www.huffpost.com/entry/radio-shack-ad_b_4612973 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/radio-shack-ad_b_4612973 That US$1600 Tandy 1600 runs a 286 CPU and has a 20MB hard drive, and supported 640×200×16 resolution (720×350 mode for monochrome monitors): * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandy_1000#Tandy_1000_SL_and_TL_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandy_1000#Tandy_1000_SL_and_T... What kind of system can you get for $1600 nowadays?

nradov 5y ago
I always found it funny how most economists claim that deflation would be disastrous because customers would keep delaying purchases while waiting for prices to drop further. And yet everyone keeps buying computers even though we've had almost continuous deflation for decades.