6 ms·

This new version of the Fisher-Price Record Player is heartbreaking. I learned so much from trying to understand how it worked. Concepts like stored energy: exp

This new version of the Fisher-Price Record Player is heartbreaking. I learned so much from trying to understand how it worked. Concepts like stored energy: experimenting with trying to over-wind, under-wide, a few turns, many turns, slowly adding pressure to the winding knob until it would start playing and try to maintain just enough pressure to play. Physically slowing and speeding up the turntable to change to the tempo. Trying to intentionally misaligning the head to play out of tune. Turning it on it's side, upside down, trying to peek at the teeth on the head and manually play individual notes. All at an age before I could read. That toy was indestructible, because if it weren't I would have torn it down to individual components (just like my very expensive 6 million dollar man action figure, to the great chagrin of my parents). It wouldn't be until much later I'd have to tools to dissemble one, and by then I was taking apart real record plays. This toy is a good analog for a real record player and with grooves that move a needle and play sound encoded on the disk. Leading to understanding of sound waves. This new toy is a mix of new and old tech. How can a per-literate child be expected to decipher binary encodings and how they map to individual songs? What deeper understanding of how things work are within the grasp of a child that cannot yet use a screwdriver, wire cutters, and a volt meter? This new toy is boring. Once you learn how to turn it on, it can have no appeal to a child exposed to much better music players all around them: cell phones, iPads, computers, tvs. This is just a piece of plastic and e-waste destined for the landfill, purchased by some sentimental old timer who has fond memories of the original F-P record player.

pen2l 5y ago
As well, the beautiful vulnerability and realness, the imperfections, the notes sometimes slightly flat or sharp because of mechanical aberrations — they were wonderful to observe. The humming sounds of the windings, the realness of it. The tactile dots, the understanding of how they related to musical notes. What a thing it was to behold, an authenticity that the child in us could always appreciate and be impressed and moved by.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  We're still in the wave of digital purity (and the VR/meta chapter won't help). Come back in 50 years for a reappreciation of analog, complex, fragile and non linear. By this time digital computing will probably be chaotic too.
  - grishka 5y ago
    I mean some people are already getting nostalgic about CRTs for being so analog. And it's been what, only ~15 years since LCDs and other types of digital flat-panel displays started becoming cheap and widespread?
    - agumonkey 5y ago
      I'm part of that group (I ever regretted breaking my beloved mitsu diamondtron[0]) but still the mainstream is massively about digital purity, beyond biological retina sampling and displaying .. in that era good luck talking about the "value" of imperfect media, it's like fighting a tsunami to me. [0] to cope, I scavenged a few portable TVs from the 90s to toy with the small tubes.
    - nyanpasu64 5y ago
      Part of the reason for using CRTs today is their analog characteristics, and part of it is because they're near-zero-latency by design.
      - grishka 5y ago
        The latency part is somewhat getting alleviated by higher refresh rate displays tho
  - bch 5y ago
    > and the VR/meta chapter won't help Tangential to this thread, I listened to Carmacks keynote[0] for the Facebook Connect event, and it’s very refreshing to hear him push back, in ways that just make sense , instead of towing some corporate line that’s part fantasy and snake oil. See his comments on “social metaverse” and “3D vs flat screens”. [0] https://youtu.be/BnSUk0je6oo?t=1845 https://youtu.be/BnSUk0je6oo?t=1845
nodejs_rulez_1 5y ago
On the other hand there are things like this: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/upperstory/spintronics-build-mechanical-circuits https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/upperstory/spintronics-... Now it will be up-to parents to decide whether they want to bring up an iPhone consumer kid or more of a PC creative kid.
- amelius 5y ago
  Side note. How is an iPhone not a "personal" computer?
  - TeMPOraL 5y ago
    It's not about being a personal computer. An iPhone may be personal, but it's hardly a computer. I mean, technically it is, but then so is the microwave timer controller. In terms of user interaction, an iPhone does its best to be an appliance, not a general-purpose computer. So do Android smartphones - lest one thing it's an Apple problem, it's not. It's a modern computing problem.
    - grishka 5y ago
      > So do Android smartphones At least you get to run arbitrary software on them as a standard feature. And on many, the bootloader is unlockable, so you could root the thing and/or tinker with the OS. The modern computing problem isn't this particular thing, it lies higher. It's presuming that the user is stupid and can't possibly be trusted with figuring stuff out and making their own informed decisions. Won't be surprised if people who design software like this consider every setting a liability.
      - TeMPOraL 5y ago
        > The modern computing problem isn't this particular thing, it lies higher. It's presuming that the user is stupid and can't possibly be trusted with figuring stuff out and making their own informed decisions. I agree with that. It's pretty much an unquestioned axiom in the industry. You can see it mentioned in almost every article or book about writing software, doing UI design or UX work. The user is stupid. They're incapable of thinking for themselves, figuring things out, having their own goals. They have to be carefully guided so they follow the exact path the software prescribes for them, and incentivized along the way with "engagement patterns", lest they get bored mid way. > Won't be surprised if people who design software like this consider every setting a liability. Which is funny, because the first thing every single piece of software on this planet does, is disclaiming any and all liability for anything. So the kind of liability they feel, I believe, is just that of getting bad press over some reviewers deciding something is too confusing, leading to reduced sales.
TeMPOraL 5y ago
Yup. I'm pissed by this. And I never even owned a toy like that. The new toy is just fucking up with kids' development. It literally boils down to a 10-button panel for selecting which song to play. All the things that make it look like a turntable are nonfunctional lies. There's no direct relationship between what disk you have in it, and whether it's turning, because the music isn't even encoded on it in the first place. The disk is just representing two possible states, and the turning is for show. How did they imagine a kid will process such a toy? How much disappointment will a child feel when they realize, after trying to physically play with the turning disks, that it's just a dummy? They could've made this toy with a single disk with a motor under it, and 10 buttons to pick songs, and it would be better because it wouldn't lie. It would look like a record player, not pretend to be one. Or perhaps I'm just angry because the old model was an actual record player, so we have a clear example of them having a superior design available (and most likely cheaper to produce), and then choosing to make it worse for re-release. Anyway, there's a software analogy in here, but I'm not in a mood to be able to write a coherent and short summary of it. Suffice it to say: the continuous dumbing down of software all across the board is sometimes called "Fisher-Pricing the UI". Never before have I felt this term is so apt as I feel now.
- wjamesg 5y ago
  “I'm taking a HN break until the end of year. See you in 2022!” :-)
- Aeolun 5y ago
  > How much disappointment will a child feel when they realize, after trying to physically play with the turning disks, that it's just a dummy? Absolutely nothing, since they don’t know what to expect. My son has a similar music player from a different brand (more like a diskman) and just accepts that putting in the disk is enough, no need for spinning or anything. Of course the machine screams “Open!” and “Lets play!” When you open or close the disk cover respectively, so it’s orders of magnitude more satisfying than the fisher price thing (you can try playing with cover open, or rapidly open/close it to see what happens).
  - 5y ago
themdonuts 5y ago
I got stuck on the 6 million dollar action figure part and ignored all the rest afterwards. What's the story?
- ZiiS 5y ago
  An action figure of the "six million dollar man" (from a tv show). Though sadly I can't rule out a toy fetching that now adays.
  - randomstring 5y ago
    https://nostalgiacentral.com/pop-culture/toys-games/six-million-dollar-man-action-figure/ https://nostalgiacentral.com/pop-culture/toys-games/six-mill... A quick look on ebay shows they're typically selling for less than $100.

pen2l 5y ago

As well, the beautiful vulnerability and realness, the imperfections, the notes sometimes slightly flat or sharp because of mechanical aberrations — they were wonderful to observe. The humming sounds of the windings, the realness of it. The tactile dots, the understanding of how they related to musical notes. What a thing it was to behold, an authenticity that the child in us could always appreciate and be impressed and moved by.

agumonkey 5y ago
We're still in the wave of digital purity (and the VR/meta chapter won't help). Come back in 50 years for a reappreciation of analog, complex, fragile and non linear. By this time digital computing will probably be chaotic too.
- grishka 5y ago
  I mean some people are already getting nostalgic about CRTs for being so analog. And it's been what, only ~15 years since LCDs and other types of digital flat-panel displays started becoming cheap and widespread?
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    I'm part of that group (I ever regretted breaking my beloved mitsu diamondtron[0]) but still the mainstream is massively about digital purity, beyond biological retina sampling and displaying .. in that era good luck talking about the "value" of imperfect media, it's like fighting a tsunami to me. [0] to cope, I scavenged a few portable TVs from the 90s to toy with the small tubes.
  - nyanpasu64 5y ago
    Part of the reason for using CRTs today is their analog characteristics, and part of it is because they're near-zero-latency by design.
    - grishka 5y ago
      The latency part is somewhat getting alleviated by higher refresh rate displays tho
- bch 5y ago
  > and the VR/meta chapter won't help Tangential to this thread, I listened to Carmacks keynote[0] for the Facebook Connect event, and it’s very refreshing to hear him push back, in ways that just make sense , instead of towing some corporate line that’s part fantasy and snake oil. See his comments on “social metaverse” and “3D vs flat screens”. [0] https://youtu.be/BnSUk0je6oo?t=1845 https://youtu.be/BnSUk0je6oo?t=1845

nodejs_rulez_1 5y ago

On the other hand there are things like this: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/upperstory/spintronics-build-mechanical-circuits https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/upperstory/spintronics-... Now it will be up-to parents to decide whether they want to bring up an iPhone consumer kid or more of a PC creative kid.

amelius 5y ago
Side note. How is an iPhone not a "personal" computer?
- TeMPOraL 5y ago
  It's not about being a personal computer. An iPhone may be personal, but it's hardly a computer. I mean, technically it is, but then so is the microwave timer controller. In terms of user interaction, an iPhone does its best to be an appliance, not a general-purpose computer. So do Android smartphones - lest one thing it's an Apple problem, it's not. It's a modern computing problem.
  - grishka 5y ago
    > So do Android smartphones At least you get to run arbitrary software on them as a standard feature. And on many, the bootloader is unlockable, so you could root the thing and/or tinker with the OS. The modern computing problem isn't this particular thing, it lies higher. It's presuming that the user is stupid and can't possibly be trusted with figuring stuff out and making their own informed decisions. Won't be surprised if people who design software like this consider every setting a liability.
    - TeMPOraL 5y ago
      > The modern computing problem isn't this particular thing, it lies higher. It's presuming that the user is stupid and can't possibly be trusted with figuring stuff out and making their own informed decisions. I agree with that. It's pretty much an unquestioned axiom in the industry. You can see it mentioned in almost every article or book about writing software, doing UI design or UX work. The user is stupid. They're incapable of thinking for themselves, figuring things out, having their own goals. They have to be carefully guided so they follow the exact path the software prescribes for them, and incentivized along the way with "engagement patterns", lest they get bored mid way. > Won't be surprised if people who design software like this consider every setting a liability. Which is funny, because the first thing every single piece of software on this planet does, is disclaiming any and all liability for anything. So the kind of liability they feel, I believe, is just that of getting bad press over some reviewers deciding something is too confusing, leading to reduced sales.

TeMPOraL 5y ago

Yup. I'm pissed by this. And I never even owned a toy like that. The new toy is just fucking up with kids' development. It literally boils down to a 10-button panel for selecting which song to play. All the things that make it look like a turntable are nonfunctional lies. There's no direct relationship between what disk you have in it, and whether it's turning, because the music isn't even encoded on it in the first place. The disk is just representing two possible states, and the turning is for show. How did they imagine a kid will process such a toy? How much disappointment will a child feel when they realize, after trying to physically play with the turning disks, that it's just a dummy? They could've made this toy with a single disk with a motor under it, and 10 buttons to pick songs, and it would be better because it wouldn't lie. It would look like a record player, not pretend to be one. Or perhaps I'm just angry because the old model was an actual record player, so we have a clear example of them having a superior design available (and most likely cheaper to produce), and then choosing to make it worse for re-release. Anyway, there's a software analogy in here, but I'm not in a mood to be able to write a coherent and short summary of it. Suffice it to say: the continuous dumbing down of software all across the board is sometimes called "Fisher-Pricing the UI". Never before have I felt this term is so apt as I feel now.

wjamesg 5y ago
“I'm taking a HN break until the end of year. See you in 2022!” :-)
Aeolun 5y ago
> How much disappointment will a child feel when they realize, after trying to physically play with the turning disks, that it's just a dummy? Absolutely nothing, since they don’t know what to expect. My son has a similar music player from a different brand (more like a diskman) and just accepts that putting in the disk is enough, no need for spinning or anything. Of course the machine screams “Open!” and “Lets play!” When you open or close the disk cover respectively, so it’s orders of magnitude more satisfying than the fisher price thing (you can try playing with cover open, or rapidly open/close it to see what happens).
- 5y ago

themdonuts 5y ago

I got stuck on the 6 million dollar action figure part and ignored all the rest afterwards. What's the story?

ZiiS 5y ago
An action figure of the "six million dollar man" (from a tv show). Though sadly I can't rule out a toy fetching that now adays.
- randomstring 5y ago
  https://nostalgiacentral.com/pop-culture/toys-games/six-million-dollar-man-action-figure/ https://nostalgiacentral.com/pop-culture/toys-games/six-mill... A quick look on ebay shows they're typically selling for less than $100.