11 ms·

Toyota unveils its first all-electric car: the bZ4X

65 points by underscore_ku 5y ago

flatiron 5y ago
I hope it gets a real name before it hits the states.
neogodless 5y ago
The success and impact of this will come down to pricing, the state of charging networks, and production quantity. It looks like it has roughly "table stakes" as far as capabilities go, at best, beating neither the Model Y or Mach-E on range, but likely costing less to compensate. In my humble opinion, the name is horrendous. May they have the wisdom to change it when they start selling it in the U.S.
- themitigating 5y ago
  Tesla said it's releasing a CCS adapter and they may open up their charging network to other brands. If all the charging networks are combined then that might resolve issues for 95 percent of all drives
  - mullingitover 5y ago
    This would probably drive me away from buying a Tesla. They can't even keep up with demand for their superchargers when they're only serving Teslas[1]. Opening them up to any random EV would make make their charging network a complete mess. [1] https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on-the-road-meant-hours-long-supercharger-lines-over-thanksgiving https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on-the-road-...
    - cure 5y ago
      Well... Tesla have said they are planning to triple the size of the supercharger network over the next two years. Cf. https://electrek.co/2021/10/21/tesla-plans-triple-supercharger-network/ https://electrek.co/2021/10/21/tesla-plans-triple-supercharg... And they did have a 79% market share of all EVs sold in the US last year (though, that is expected to be lower this year, and the EV market segment is growing very fast). Cf. https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2021/08/as-ev-sales-double-tesla-market-share-starts-to-slide/ https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2021/08/as-ev-sales-double-.... In Canada, Tesla is deploying supercharger stations with separate, dedicated chargers for all other brands to take advantage of government subsidies. I wouldn't put it past them to prioritize their own cars in some way when they finally open up to other makes.
    - mpalczewski 5y ago
      Are only Tesla's allowed to charge at Tesla charging stations? I had always assumed these were like gas stations where you can bring any car to fill up. If each manufacturer is going to have their own network, this doesn't seem like a good path forward.
      - neogodless 5y ago
        To my knowledge, Tesla has the only proprietary network. Everyone else jumped on board a (different) standard connector (CCS). Though this is reportedly going to change, with Tesla switching to CCS and opening up their charging stations to it. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-plans-open-up-its-charging-network-other-evs-later-this-year-2021-07-20/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  There are a lot of people who like Toyotas because they just work. If they can put out a mid-spec EV that doesn't have GM's fire issues or Tesla's missing fasteners issues, they'll get customers. https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/ev-reliability-varied-as-gasoline-cars-consumer-reports/ https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/ev-reliability-varied-as-...
  - SECProto 5y ago
    I am one of those people. Driving a decade old Toyota Yaris with 210,000km, have performed <$500 in unplanned maintenance (had a ground fault that affected the wipers, cost ~$250). I'm planning to upgrade to full electric sometime in the next three years, whenever something compelling comes up. If I had to switch today, it'd be a Leaf (doesnt suit my distance needs), a Model Y (doesnt suit my budget), or a Bolt EV (doesnt suit my no-active-recalls-due-to-fundamental-fire-risk requirement). Hyundai and Kia are out due to bad past experience with them (engine totally died just outside warranty, known issue, no option other than a $9000 engine replacement with no guarantees the same thing wouldn't happen 31 days thereafter). If Toyota or Honda had a compelling option I would buy in in a heartbeat
helsinkiandrew 5y ago
> Toyota fixed the major problem with Tesla’s wheel by introducing its “wing-shaped” steering wheel with a steer-by-wire system enabling what Toyota calls a “one motion grip”: Lock-to-lock is set at around 150 degrees. I’ve always assumed most cars have mechanical steering with power assistance, so they’ll work in the event of a power failure. But a Lock to lock of 150 degrees sounds like it would be impossible to move even if there is a mechanical connection from steering to wheels.
- xnyan 5y ago
  Most manufacturers have already moved from hydraulic to electric motor steering systems, and steer-by-wire is the next step. It's not very common today, but the pace is picking up because the advantages (far fewer mechanical parts, automation) are tempting. Reliability is going to come down to implementation. In some cases you actually have advantages in control-by-wire (less mechanical parts to fail). You can also implement mechanical overrides for emergency situations.
rsync 5y ago
Launched under a sub-brand ? Check. Tron-car / iMobile / eMachine styling ? Check. Dumping ground for UI/UX experiments ? Check. ... God forbid they would just give us an electric Camry. Or a forerunner. Or a Tacoma. Do they not understand ? We don't want your "electric car" - we want your car, electric.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  I thought the whole value proposition of a 4Runner/Tacoma is the drive train has so many years and miles of being proven to be bulletproof that buyers know exactly what they are getting. An ICE car that will last a few hundred thousands miles with just maintenance. And they are so simple they are easy to work on and customize. An electric version would not have any of that.
  - neogodless 5y ago
    And you've just answered why Toyota has been so hesitant to move the conversion from ICE to electric motor forward. It's a key market advantage they are about to lose.
    - rsj_hn 5y ago
      You think owners of EV cars don't care about reliability? They are even in a worse spot, needing to pay $1000 for a door handle failure because they can only get all their service from the dealer. A rock solid EV that doesn't need a lot of repairs, and when it does, is simple/cheap to repair would be a huge win for EV buyers.
      - Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
        > They are even in a worse spot, needing to pay $1000 for a door handle failure because they can only get all their service from the dealer Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't an EV thing, it's a Tesla thing.
        5y ago
umeshunni 5y ago
Somehow Toyota has managed to blow the 20 year lead they had on electric vehicles with the Prius by not innovating in this space at all since the original Prius. They instead focused on hydrogen with the Mirai, which turned out to be the wrong bet. It's surprising to see that even GM, BMW and Mercedes have "regular" electric cars in the market while Toyota has nothing more than a Tron-car sub-brand concept.
- rodgerd 5y ago
  Their first electric car was a RAV4. It, along with any broader potential, was completely trashed by an American oil company and patent fuckery, costing them an absolute fortune.
  - umeshunni 5y ago
    Amazing! I didn't know this history at all. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_...
  - chrisjc 5y ago
    And its (or was it a different generation?) battery pack was developed by Tesla. > Toyota worked together with Tesla Motors to develop the second generation RAV4 EV, and the electric SUV was released in the United States in September 2012. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV
    - umeshunni 5y ago
      OP is referring to the first gen RAV4 that was released in the 90s.
- xbar 5y ago
  ..and being bitter and cynical about EV success. Seems like they might have been in petroleum's back pocket this whole time.
Youden 5y ago
Others have mentioned an electric RAV4 but in the more immediate past, is there a reason the Mirai shouldn't be considered "all-electric"? It's not a widely successful electric car but it is a production electric car.
- neogodless 5y ago
  I don't know much about fuel cell technology, but the headline is for "all-electric," which rules the hydrogen fuel cell out.
  - Youden 5y ago
    Why does that rule hydrogen fuel cells out? How are FCEVs any less "all-electric" than BEVs? Both kinds of vehicle are driven by chemical reactions that directly generate electricity.
    - neogodless 5y ago
      So you can plug in anywhere and recharge?
      - haspok 5y ago
        Can you recharge an alkaline battery? Would you consider a device powered by an alkaline battery "all-electric"?
jjtheblunt 5y ago
https://www.subaru.com/solterra-ev https://www.subaru.com/solterra-ev is its sibling, evidently
- neogodless 5y ago
  I do not think it contributes to link a different future product without adding any context. If I had to guess, this is made in partnership with Toyota, like a handful of other products (the Subaru BR-Z, Scion FR-S, and current Toyota 86 are an example.) EDIT: Ah you edited to include that it's a sibling vehicle. Thank you!
jlrubin 5y ago
the RAV4 EV doesn't count?
- ramesh31 5y ago
  >the RAV4 EV doesn't count? The RAV4 EV was only ever a compliance vehicle, with very little practical use.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - jlrubin 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    There was a RAV4 EV, but it was discontinued in 2014.
tapoxi 5y ago
Why is Toyota so late to the EV game when the Prius was such a huge deal? I just leased my first EV and it ended up being a Volkswagen, a brand I had no prior relationship with, simply because Toyota didn't have anything to offer outside of PHEVs.
- aaronbrethorst 5y ago
  They made a bad bet on hydrogen. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/25/climate/toyota-electric-hydrogen.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/25/climate/toyota-electric-h...
- rodgerd 5y ago
  Maybe institutional memory: "Whether or not Toyota wanted to continue production [of the 90s all-electric RAV4], it was unlikely to be able to do so because the EV-95 battery was no longer available. Chevron had inherited control of the worldwide patent rights for the NiMH EV-95 battery when it merged with Texaco, which had purchased them from General Motors. Chevron's unit won a US$30,000,000 settlement from Toyota and Panasonic, and the production line for the large NiMH batteries was closed down and dismantled. This case was settled in the ICC International Court of Arbitration, and not publicized due to a gag order placed on Toyota."
lifty 5y ago
Nothing about solid state batteries so I guess they're not ready yet.
rektide 5y ago
Toyota has the Toyota 86, which is very very similar to the Subaru BRZ. Before clicking I didn't have the two model names straight & thought this might be a BRZ related car. Which probably wouldn't really make much sense for where one would want to ship an electric car: a tiny low weight little thing. For an SUV, looks pretty good. The dark grey around the wheels works well with kind of blocky squatness it has. A more serious grown up Scion xB feel. Definitely has a bit of a Jaguar iPace feel, but less swooshy & with a little more squat, atop the road solidity of a feel. Not a big fan of the Jag's haunches & this has similar-ish geometry but the style feels better, more direct to me.
ploden 5y ago
Vehicle-to-grid capability is good. Everything else looks 2-3 years behind.
nradov 5y ago
Instead of paying expensive consultants to name our products we should just use the random password generator. https://passwordsgenerator.net/ https://passwordsgenerator.net/
Someone1234 5y ago
I'm very interested to see testing on the solar panel, specifically if the benefits offset the added weight and cost. Their quote: > generates electricity equivalent to 1,800 km of driving distance per year Is too vague. Is this taking away the distance lost from added panel weight? What are the assumptions (e.g. how many hours of light/day)? Is this electricity-distance at exit of the panel or after storage<->release from the batteries? What is the panel efficiency curve over the vehicles' life (e.g. do you have to replace/refurb the panel)? Obviously we would all love for this to work, we get cooler cars in the summer and bonus driving range. But it isn't exactly the first time vehicle makers have tried it and have been panned (or it has been outright vaporware) previously. EVs work. We know they work. They can work from renewables, including solar. The questions here are around onboard solar specifically and if they actually make sense (and frankly if this is a marketing gimmick).
- SonicScrub 5y ago
  If it's in their marketing, you can assume it's based on ideal weather conditions, and low-latitudes. I've done some solar-energy calculations for vehicles before as part of student engineering design teams, and I recall the results were pretty dismal. I seriously doubt a car solar roof would produce significant benefit in a place like Canada or Northern Europe as a practical range extender or a cost saver. But maybe I could see the solar panel as a useful tool for camping excursions? The solar-panel use case appears (to me at least) to be when I want to drive somewhere far away, off grid, and where the car is going to be idle for a few days. Camping is the only use-case that I can think of that fits that bill. Although I'm sure other people might have some ideas.
  - mikestew 5y ago
    My "best case" math says it is a ~60W panel. Let's just say it's 100W to be generous. Ten hours gets you a kWh. In my 2011 Nissan Leaf, that will get you four miles on a good day. So don't drive too far off into those woods.
    - Factorium 5y ago
SeanLuke 5y ago
"While Toyota has offered all-electric vehicles in China in the past, the bZ4X could be considered its first battery-electric vehicle since it’s the first to use a BEV-dedicated platform and to be available globally." This is gibberish. So... NOT its first all-electric car by any means.
- rodgerd 5y ago
  Well, no. That would be the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV#First_generation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV#First_generatio... in the 90s.
TomVDB 5y ago
One of the reason I choose a Tesla was because of the superchargers that are everywhere in California, and because of their long range: I only need a 30min intermediate recharge to get from the Bay Area to Lake Tahoe. When I google for superchargers for other brands, I get very ambiguous results. There has been chatter about Tesla opening up its supercharges in the future (the selfish part of me would rather not see that happen, its I-80 charging lots before climbing to Tahoe are already pretty busy), but I've never seen another brand, so I guess it's not a thing yet. So what's the situation then? If you're a non-Tesla EV owner in the Bay Area, how do you make it to Lake Tahoe in a reasonable amount of time?
senectus1 5y ago
The wife an I have a Hybrid Camry now, had a Prius before and have a Rav4 hybrid on order now. I was seriously considering cancelling and ordering the BZ4X but I am very disappointed with the specs on this car. I bet it'll be AU$70-80k as well (top of the range rav 4 hyb is only 53k). I like Toyota and it would take a lot for me to switch brands but I think they really dropped the ball on this one.

65 points by underscore_ku 5y ago

I hope it gets a real name before it hits the states.

The success and impact of this will come down to pricing, the state of charging networks, and production quantity. It looks like it has roughly "table stakes" as far as capabilities go, at best, beating neither the Model Y or Mach-E on range, but likely costing less to compensate. In my humble opinion, the name is horrendous. May they have the wisdom to change it when they start selling it in the U.S.

themitigating 5y ago
Tesla said it's releasing a CCS adapter and they may open up their charging network to other brands. If all the charging networks are combined then that might resolve issues for 95 percent of all drives
- mullingitover 5y ago
  This would probably drive me away from buying a Tesla. They can't even keep up with demand for their superchargers when they're only serving Teslas[1]. Opening them up to any random EV would make make their charging network a complete mess. [1] https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on-the-road-meant-hours-long-supercharger-lines-over-thanksgiving https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on-the-road-...
  - cure 5y ago
    Well... Tesla have said they are planning to triple the size of the supercharger network over the next two years. Cf. https://electrek.co/2021/10/21/tesla-plans-triple-supercharger-network/ https://electrek.co/2021/10/21/tesla-plans-triple-supercharg... And they did have a 79% market share of all EVs sold in the US last year (though, that is expected to be lower this year, and the EV market segment is growing very fast). Cf. https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2021/08/as-ev-sales-double-tesla-market-share-starts-to-slide/ https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2021/08/as-ev-sales-double-.... In Canada, Tesla is deploying supercharger stations with separate, dedicated chargers for all other brands to take advantage of government subsidies. I wouldn't put it past them to prioritize their own cars in some way when they finally open up to other makes.
  - mpalczewski 5y ago
    Are only Tesla's allowed to charge at Tesla charging stations? I had always assumed these were like gas stations where you can bring any car to fill up. If each manufacturer is going to have their own network, this doesn't seem like a good path forward.
    - neogodless 5y ago
      To my knowledge, Tesla has the only proprietary network. Everyone else jumped on board a (different) standard connector (CCS). Though this is reportedly going to change, with Tesla switching to CCS and opening up their charging stations to it. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-plans-open-up-its-charging-network-other-evs-later-this-year-2021-07-20/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...
lern_too_spel 5y ago
There are a lot of people who like Toyotas because they just work. If they can put out a mid-spec EV that doesn't have GM's fire issues or Tesla's missing fasteners issues, they'll get customers. https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/ev-reliability-varied-as-gasoline-cars-consumer-reports/ https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/ev-reliability-varied-as-...
- SECProto 5y ago
  I am one of those people. Driving a decade old Toyota Yaris with 210,000km, have performed <$500 in unplanned maintenance (had a ground fault that affected the wipers, cost ~$250). I'm planning to upgrade to full electric sometime in the next three years, whenever something compelling comes up. If I had to switch today, it'd be a Leaf (doesnt suit my distance needs), a Model Y (doesnt suit my budget), or a Bolt EV (doesnt suit my no-active-recalls-due-to-fundamental-fire-risk requirement). Hyundai and Kia are out due to bad past experience with them (engine totally died just outside warranty, known issue, no option other than a $9000 engine replacement with no guarantees the same thing wouldn't happen 31 days thereafter). If Toyota or Honda had a compelling option I would buy in in a heartbeat

helsinkiandrew 5y ago

> Toyota fixed the major problem with Tesla’s wheel by introducing its “wing-shaped” steering wheel with a steer-by-wire system enabling what Toyota calls a “one motion grip”: Lock-to-lock is set at around 150 degrees. I’ve always assumed most cars have mechanical steering with power assistance, so they’ll work in the event of a power failure. But a Lock to lock of 150 degrees sounds like it would be impossible to move even if there is a mechanical connection from steering to wheels.

xnyan 5y ago
Most manufacturers have already moved from hydraulic to electric motor steering systems, and steer-by-wire is the next step. It's not very common today, but the pace is picking up because the advantages (far fewer mechanical parts, automation) are tempting. Reliability is going to come down to implementation. In some cases you actually have advantages in control-by-wire (less mechanical parts to fail). You can also implement mechanical overrides for emergency situations.

rsync 5y ago

Launched under a sub-brand ? Check. Tron-car / iMobile / eMachine styling ? Check. Dumping ground for UI/UX experiments ? Check. ... God forbid they would just give us an electric Camry. Or a forerunner. Or a Tacoma. Do they not understand ? We don't want your "electric car" - we want your car, electric.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
I thought the whole value proposition of a 4Runner/Tacoma is the drive train has so many years and miles of being proven to be bulletproof that buyers know exactly what they are getting. An ICE car that will last a few hundred thousands miles with just maintenance. And they are so simple they are easy to work on and customize. An electric version would not have any of that.
- neogodless 5y ago
  And you've just answered why Toyota has been so hesitant to move the conversion from ICE to electric motor forward. It's a key market advantage they are about to lose.
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    You think owners of EV cars don't care about reliability? They are even in a worse spot, needing to pay $1000 for a door handle failure because they can only get all their service from the dealer. A rock solid EV that doesn't need a lot of repairs, and when it does, is simple/cheap to repair would be a huge win for EV buyers.
    - Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
      > They are even in a worse spot, needing to pay $1000 for a door handle failure because they can only get all their service from the dealer Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't an EV thing, it's a Tesla thing.
      - 5y ago

umeshunni 5y ago

Somehow Toyota has managed to blow the 20 year lead they had on electric vehicles with the Prius by not innovating in this space at all since the original Prius. They instead focused on hydrogen with the Mirai, which turned out to be the wrong bet. It's surprising to see that even GM, BMW and Mercedes have "regular" electric cars in the market while Toyota has nothing more than a Tron-car sub-brand concept.

rodgerd 5y ago
Their first electric car was a RAV4. It, along with any broader potential, was completely trashed by an American oil company and patent fuckery, costing them an absolute fortune.
- umeshunni 5y ago
  Amazing! I didn't know this history at all. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_...
- chrisjc 5y ago
  And its (or was it a different generation?) battery pack was developed by Tesla. > Toyota worked together with Tesla Motors to develop the second generation RAV4 EV, and the electric SUV was released in the United States in September 2012. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV
  - umeshunni 5y ago
    OP is referring to the first gen RAV4 that was released in the 90s.
xbar 5y ago
..and being bitter and cynical about EV success. Seems like they might have been in petroleum's back pocket this whole time.

Youden 5y ago

Others have mentioned an electric RAV4 but in the more immediate past, is there a reason the Mirai shouldn't be considered "all-electric"? It's not a widely successful electric car but it is a production electric car.

neogodless 5y ago
I don't know much about fuel cell technology, but the headline is for "all-electric," which rules the hydrogen fuel cell out.
- Youden 5y ago
  Why does that rule hydrogen fuel cells out? How are FCEVs any less "all-electric" than BEVs? Both kinds of vehicle are driven by chemical reactions that directly generate electricity.
  - neogodless 5y ago
    So you can plug in anywhere and recharge?
    - haspok 5y ago
      Can you recharge an alkaline battery? Would you consider a device powered by an alkaline battery "all-electric"?

jjtheblunt 5y ago

https://www.subaru.com/solterra-ev https://www.subaru.com/solterra-ev is its sibling, evidently

neogodless 5y ago
I do not think it contributes to link a different future product without adding any context. If I had to guess, this is made in partnership with Toyota, like a handful of other products (the Subaru BR-Z, Scion FR-S, and current Toyota 86 are an example.) EDIT: Ah you edited to include that it's a sibling vehicle. Thank you!

jlrubin 5y ago

the RAV4 EV doesn't count?

ramesh31 5y ago
>the RAV4 EV doesn't count? The RAV4 EV was only ever a compliance vehicle, with very little practical use.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jlrubin 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  There was a RAV4 EV, but it was discontinued in 2014.

tapoxi 5y ago

Why is Toyota so late to the EV game when the Prius was such a huge deal? I just leased my first EV and it ended up being a Volkswagen, a brand I had no prior relationship with, simply because Toyota didn't have anything to offer outside of PHEVs.

aaronbrethorst 5y ago
They made a bad bet on hydrogen. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/25/climate/toyota-electric-hydrogen.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/25/climate/toyota-electric-h...
rodgerd 5y ago
Maybe institutional memory: "Whether or not Toyota wanted to continue production [of the 90s all-electric RAV4], it was unlikely to be able to do so because the EV-95 battery was no longer available. Chevron had inherited control of the worldwide patent rights for the NiMH EV-95 battery when it merged with Texaco, which had purchased them from General Motors. Chevron's unit won a US$30,000,000 settlement from Toyota and Panasonic, and the production line for the large NiMH batteries was closed down and dismantled. This case was settled in the ICC International Court of Arbitration, and not publicized due to a gag order placed on Toyota."

lifty 5y ago

Nothing about solid state batteries so I guess they're not ready yet.

rektide 5y ago

Toyota has the Toyota 86, which is very very similar to the Subaru BRZ. Before clicking I didn't have the two model names straight & thought this might be a BRZ related car. Which probably wouldn't really make much sense for where one would want to ship an electric car: a tiny low weight little thing. For an SUV, looks pretty good. The dark grey around the wheels works well with kind of blocky squatness it has. A more serious grown up Scion xB feel. Definitely has a bit of a Jaguar iPace feel, but less swooshy & with a little more squat, atop the road solidity of a feel. Not a big fan of the Jag's haunches & this has similar-ish geometry but the style feels better, more direct to me.

ploden 5y ago

Vehicle-to-grid capability is good. Everything else looks 2-3 years behind.

nradov 5y ago

Instead of paying expensive consultants to name our products we should just use the random password generator. https://passwordsgenerator.net/ https://passwordsgenerator.net/

Someone1234 5y ago

I'm very interested to see testing on the solar panel, specifically if the benefits offset the added weight and cost. Their quote: > generates electricity equivalent to 1,800 km of driving distance per year Is too vague. Is this taking away the distance lost from added panel weight? What are the assumptions (e.g. how many hours of light/day)? Is this electricity-distance at exit of the panel or after storage<->release from the batteries? What is the panel efficiency curve over the vehicles' life (e.g. do you have to replace/refurb the panel)? Obviously we would all love for this to work, we get cooler cars in the summer and bonus driving range. But it isn't exactly the first time vehicle makers have tried it and have been panned (or it has been outright vaporware) previously. EVs work. We know they work. They can work from renewables, including solar. The questions here are around onboard solar specifically and if they actually make sense (and frankly if this is a marketing gimmick).

SonicScrub 5y ago
If it's in their marketing, you can assume it's based on ideal weather conditions, and low-latitudes. I've done some solar-energy calculations for vehicles before as part of student engineering design teams, and I recall the results were pretty dismal. I seriously doubt a car solar roof would produce significant benefit in a place like Canada or Northern Europe as a practical range extender or a cost saver. But maybe I could see the solar panel as a useful tool for camping excursions? The solar-panel use case appears (to me at least) to be when I want to drive somewhere far away, off grid, and where the car is going to be idle for a few days. Camping is the only use-case that I can think of that fits that bill. Although I'm sure other people might have some ideas.
- mikestew 5y ago
  My "best case" math says it is a ~60W panel. Let's just say it's 100W to be generous. Ten hours gets you a kWh. In my 2011 Nissan Leaf, that will get you four miles on a good day. So don't drive too far off into those woods.
  - Factorium 5y ago

SeanLuke 5y ago

"While Toyota has offered all-electric vehicles in China in the past, the bZ4X could be considered its first battery-electric vehicle since it’s the first to use a BEV-dedicated platform and to be available globally." This is gibberish. So... NOT its first all-electric car by any means.

rodgerd 5y ago
Well, no. That would be the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV#First_generation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV#First_generatio... in the 90s.

TomVDB 5y ago

One of the reason I choose a Tesla was because of the superchargers that are everywhere in California, and because of their long range: I only need a 30min intermediate recharge to get from the Bay Area to Lake Tahoe. When I google for superchargers for other brands, I get very ambiguous results. There has been chatter about Tesla opening up its supercharges in the future (the selfish part of me would rather not see that happen, its I-80 charging lots before climbing to Tahoe are already pretty busy), but I've never seen another brand, so I guess it's not a thing yet. So what's the situation then? If you're a non-Tesla EV owner in the Bay Area, how do you make it to Lake Tahoe in a reasonable amount of time?

senectus1 5y ago

The wife an I have a Hybrid Camry now, had a Prius before and have a Rav4 hybrid on order now. I was seriously considering cancelling and ordering the BZ4X but I am very disappointed with the specs on this car. I bet it'll be AU$70-80k as well (top of the range rav 4 hyb is only 53k). I like Toyota and it would take a lot for me to switch brands but I think they really dropped the ball on this one.