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UK (230V) here, I've observed electricians working on live circuits frequently. That's why tools like this exist, 'safe' for working up to 1000V: https://www.m

UK (230V) here, I've observed electricians working on live circuits frequently. That's why tools like this exist, 'safe' for working up to 1000V: https://www.machinemart.co.uk/c/vde--insulated-tools/ https://www.machinemart.co.uk/c/vde--insulated-tools/ Despite being warned not to over and over again, I have replaced multiple electrical outlets and light switches in my home without flipping the breakers

laurent92 5y ago
At least please don’t be seen by kids. They might believe it’s nothing.
sbierwagen 5y ago
I did commercial lighting for a few years. Relamp/reballast or LED retrofits are almost always done during business hours, with the lights on. Big lighting systems usually run at 277V. (Phase-to-neural voltage of 480V three-phase) I would much rather work on a hot 277V lighting fixture than a 120V wall socket. Much more room to work, wire gauge is way thinner. The downside is that you're always on a ladder, so a big shock is comes with a ten foot fall as a free bonus. If I'm touching anything inside a wall, the breaker is getting flipped.
ISL 5y ago
> Despite being warned not to over and over again, I have replaced multiple electrical outlets and light switches in my home without flipping the breakers The consequences at hand make working with even house-voltage electricity a "wicked learning environment" [1]. The first time you get things wrong may be lethal, without the opportunity to learn from experience. Please consider turning the power off the next time you do electrical work. I don't know you, but I still care whether or not you get zapped :). [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/experience-studio/202007/experience-kind-vs-wicked https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/experience-studio/20...
newaccount74 5y ago
I've accidentally touched 230V a few times. It happened when I thought I turned off power but I didn't. (which is why you should short live and ground after turning off power to make sure it is actually turned off)
IshKebab 5y ago
"Despite being told I was doing something stupid over and over again, I continued to do that stupid thing."
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  Yes? Do you have anything more to say? The egg safety standards in the US and EU come to mind. Each standard considers the other standard to be so unsafe it must be banned. But they're both fine.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    They are both fine, but probably dangerous to have mixed.
  - IshKebab 5y ago
    I don't know anything about egg, but presumably they don't advocate working on live household electrics.
OJFord 5y ago
That's not 'why' they exist, (at least, that's not my understanding, or why I have a set) it's not easy to not touch anything with anything else, but it's a nice safeguard while poking about somewhere you think is made safe. What I haven't seen (and don't know why?) is a VDE screwdriver in the neon/LED voltage detection style. Personally I even isolate lighting circuits to change a bulb. It almost certainly wouldn't be a problem if I didn't, but it's so easy, why not.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
  Because [this] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spannungspr%C3%BCfer#/media/Datei:Kenden_Driver2.JPG https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spannungspr%C3%BCfer#/media/Da... is all that is needed to do it. Can you think of a way to do this safely with less commonly available electronics? Get rich quick! :-)
  - OJFord 5y ago
    Sure, but you could also say 'all that's needed' is an appropriately rated multimeter, no need for a 'Spannungsprüfer' (I don't speak German btw!). Those neon/LED drivers (non-(intended)-contact) are in basically every 'dad toolbox' and 'man drawer', a VDE 1000v rated one just seems appealing/like it'd sell well, even if sure, people who actually need that (or should be doing things that do) have better tools for it.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
      I posted that link because I didn't find any other one which illustrated the point I tried to make so well with one large picture. To put it in different words: this exists like pictured because it is the most simple and cheap method to safely implement with currently available parts.

laurent92 5y ago

At least please don’t be seen by kids. They might believe it’s nothing.

sbierwagen 5y ago

I did commercial lighting for a few years. Relamp/reballast or LED retrofits are almost always done during business hours, with the lights on. Big lighting systems usually run at 277V. (Phase-to-neural voltage of 480V three-phase) I would much rather work on a hot 277V lighting fixture than a 120V wall socket. Much more room to work, wire gauge is way thinner. The downside is that you're always on a ladder, so a big shock is comes with a ten foot fall as a free bonus. If I'm touching anything inside a wall, the breaker is getting flipped.

ISL 5y ago

> Despite being warned not to over and over again, I have replaced multiple electrical outlets and light switches in my home without flipping the breakers The consequences at hand make working with even house-voltage electricity a "wicked learning environment" [1]. The first time you get things wrong may be lethal, without the opportunity to learn from experience. Please consider turning the power off the next time you do electrical work. I don't know you, but I still care whether or not you get zapped :). [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/experience-studio/202007/experience-kind-vs-wicked https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/experience-studio/20...

newaccount74 5y ago

I've accidentally touched 230V a few times. It happened when I thought I turned off power but I didn't. (which is why you should short live and ground after turning off power to make sure it is actually turned off)

IshKebab 5y ago

"Despite being told I was doing something stupid over and over again, I continued to do that stupid thing."

Dylan16807 5y ago
Yes? Do you have anything more to say? The egg safety standards in the US and EU come to mind. Each standard considers the other standard to be so unsafe it must be banned. But they're both fine.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  They are both fine, but probably dangerous to have mixed.
- IshKebab 5y ago
  I don't know anything about egg, but presumably they don't advocate working on live household electrics.

OJFord 5y ago

That's not 'why' they exist, (at least, that's not my understanding, or why I have a set) it's not easy to not touch anything with anything else, but it's a nice safeguard while poking about somewhere you think is made safe. What I haven't seen (and don't know why?) is a VDE screwdriver in the neon/LED voltage detection style. Personally I even isolate lighting circuits to change a bulb. It almost certainly wouldn't be a problem if I didn't, but it's so easy, why not.

LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
Because [this] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spannungspr%C3%BCfer#/media/Datei:Kenden_Driver2.JPG https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spannungspr%C3%BCfer#/media/Da... is all that is needed to do it. Can you think of a way to do this safely with less commonly available electronics? Get rich quick! :-)
- OJFord 5y ago
  Sure, but you could also say 'all that's needed' is an appropriately rated multimeter, no need for a 'Spannungsprüfer' (I don't speak German btw!). Those neon/LED drivers (non-(intended)-contact) are in basically every 'dad toolbox' and 'man drawer', a VDE 1000v rated one just seems appealing/like it'd sell well, even if sure, people who actually need that (or should be doing things that do) have better tools for it.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    I posted that link because I didn't find any other one which illustrated the point I tried to make so well with one large picture. To put it in different words: this exists like pictured because it is the most simple and cheap method to safely implement with currently available parts.