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I'm a little fuzzy on why people are upset at the idea of linking their Oculus devices to a Facebook account, but not to a Meta or Oculus account, which are sur

I'm a little fuzzy on why people are upset at the idea of linking their Oculus devices to a Facebook account, but not to a Meta or Oculus account, which are surely part of the same data ecosystem. Genuinely asking, is there some reason to expect less – I don't know, zuckerberginess – from Meta or Oculus than from Facebook?

tomc1985 5y ago
Why do we need an account anyway?? How about ... no accounts.
nickthegreek 5y ago
If your facebook account gets banned for some reason, you would lose your entire paid game library and would not be able to use the hardware you spent your cash on.
- nsxwolf 5y ago
  Now your Meta account can get banned for some reason. I assume the ToS will be very similar. It's a platform, you can say things on it, you can potentially abuse people on it. There may come a day where the world is utterly broken for the unaugmented, just a confusing sterile landscape camouflaged in QR codes. Getting kicked off the Metaverse will be a terrifying form of exile. But it will all be a private company's decision, so that will make it OK.
  - 14 5y ago
    It is still better to keep as many accounts separate as possible. At least right now if you get banned from Facebook your google account doesn’t get banned also. And though I have never been banned from Facebook I wouldn’t want to tie real life game purchases to a social media account where saying the wrong thing might end you up in trouble. Hard pass.
    - Liquix 5y ago
      Not being banned is nice, but keeping your accounts separate does nothing to prevent the data points you mentioned being linked, especially within the Meta ecosystem. Even outside of the ecosystem, there are billion dollar companies that are very very good at tying together all your 'unrelated' accounts/data points and selling these packages to the highest bidder. It's prudent to assume that big brother and anyone else who cared enough to look could link said activity to you.
      - hairofadog 5y ago
        I keep thinking of that scene from The Beatles' Help in which they all walk into the same apartment through four different doors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx_7xjpySK0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx_7xjpySK0
  - ramphastidae 5y ago
    > There may come a day where the world is utterly broken for the unaugmented, just a confusing sterile landscape camouflaged in QR codes https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs
    - hairofadog 5y ago
      Wow, really well done. Thanks for that.
- arthur_sav 5y ago
  Bingo. I don't want my online persona to be tied to one account or company. Big tech companies are pushing for a 360 approach where all you media, entertainment, work and even finance happens on their platform. But what happens when one of their "AI" bots flags you for some arbitrary reason or they simply don't like you? Google is notorious for automatically banning accounts and it's virtually impossible to get a resolution. Bots ban you and bots "answer" you plea for resolution "We've looked into the issue and you're still banned. Bye." So yeah, facebook bundling all their services under one account is not acceptable.
  - Digit-Al 5y ago
    That's the big problem with these massive tech companies. They want to suck more and more of your life into their ecosystems, but they don't want to take on the responsibility that comes with it. When losing your account just meant not being able to look at a few emails or social media their attitude was (almost) acceptable, but when losing access to your account could mean not being able to pay for things (apple pay, google pay), not being able to access stuff you've paid for (any digital content purchases through the account), possibly not even being able to access your phone; then it becomes a more serious responsibility and just suspending an account for arbitrary reasons is no longer acceptable. Unfortunately, the tech companies don't seem to have got the message and still regularly ruin people's lives by banning accounts for no discernible reason and giving no recourse to getting them back. I think if they are going to continue on the course they are on there needs to be some sort of campaign to force them to take more responsibility and to give people a proper channel to get bans investigated. Enforced by some sort of ombudsman or something. Another option could be that if an account is banned for ToS violations the account holder can still log in and access "essential" services such as payments, plus have read-only access to stuff like emails and photos so they can still rescue their lives. I would say a mix of both will be essential.
    - vineyardmike 5y ago
      > Another option could be that if an account is banned for ToS violations the account holder can still log in and access "essential" services such as payments, plus have read-only access to stuff like emails and photos so they can still rescue their lives. In some countries (France?) requires that online purchased products are transferable like in the real world. Mostly this is used for game resale, but it should enable you/the company to transfer purchases to a new account. "You banned me, but give my wife the games I bought"
- sillysaurusx 5y ago
  This has actually happened, too! I remember a big article about it on HN. Unfortunately I have no time to scrounge it up, but perhaps someone else remembers and can link to it.
  - elliekelly 5y ago
    IIRC there’s also a similar lawsuit against Apple. Someone who had purchased quite a lot of content with their Apple ID had their account suspended. I don’t recall the details either but I do remember reading their complaint and thinking they had quite an interesting and creative angle to get around Apple’s TOS that purport to allow Apple to cancel your account at any time for any reason. Edit: Thread discussing the Apple ID suit https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26890055 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26890055
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Sure, but that's true whether it's a Facebook account, an Oculus account, a Quest account, or a Meta account, right?
  - kjaftaedi 5y ago
    Of this list only one of these creates an account that is searchable and contactable by the general public, and only one of these will ban you if you use a profile photo of anything other than your own face.
- 8ytecoder 5y ago
  Isn’t that true for Apple, Google, Amazon and Microsoft as well? I have games on Xbox, movies in iTunes, books and audiobooks with Amazon. I’ve hedged my bets but it still would be non-trivial loss for me.
  - vineyardmike 5y ago
    This is one of the few good thins about streaming only. Apple Music ban you? Switch to Spotify!
emsy 5y ago
It still sucks, but there is no obligation for your real name and it shouldn’t be that hard find an anonymous payment method.
suprfnk 5y ago
> zuckerberginess Zuckiness, if you will.
- na85 5y ago
  Zuckery.
  - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
    Dumb Zuck.
sbilstein 5y ago
admittedly a very personal reason but I _don't_ want to be able to log in to facebook. Each property of theirs has it's own flavor but I personally find facebook with its treasure trove of decade old memories and connections to people i haven't seen in ages to be a bit of a despair and depression pit. I deleted my account specifically cause I felt like "why am I still looking at this stuff?" I would love to be able to use oculus or instagram (which i can now) without an FB account. Recently I created an account to use ad manager for my job and it's been really annoying how many friends (from the past) I get suggested and how much the algo seems to want to rebuild my old account...
georgeecollins 5y ago
It's unknown what a Meta account will be, but I can explain the difference between a FB account and an Oculus one. Having an Oculus account was pretty much like having a Steam account. It keeps track of your devices, your purchases, and you get emails or notifications (if you enable it)about products it thinks you want. Not perfect, but an a tradeoff I will accept for great devices and a good service. Having to log into FB means you have to create an FB account, and they try to stop you from setting up a fake one not connected to your real phone number and emails. Using your device will mean that sometimes you have to log into FB which can be a real hassle on your home browser or phone. You have to think about leaving cookies, not leaving certain apps on your phone, particularly if you are on Android, and if you are a Quest 2 developer you are an Android developer so all the security questions are x2. Plus, FB probably keeps this account you set up just to use your Oculus device and they post to it every time you buy a game or maybe every time you get an achievement. I have no idea if anyone actually has the misfortune to see those posts, but I wonder if they collect money on ads that are served to the accounts that have no other activity than automated Oculus posts. Someone here would know. I love the Quest 2 and I am really happy FB is doing this. Thank you FB for this.
- kerng 5y ago
  This entire rebranding is just a stunt to steer away from the mess Facebook creates in our society - it's still the same people in charge, even worse the Facebook people are moving more and more over to RL teams - so absolutley nothing will change, it will actually get worse as Facebook culture takes over. Maybe some fun startup like Magic Leap or maybe Snap rebrands to Antimeta.
  - georgeecollins 5y ago
    I don't disagree, but keep in mind that any VR headset is probably going to involve an account and a login. When I download a game from Nintendo or Valve I am signing up for something and giving them personal info. We are going to have to strike some balances. It's really annoying to have FB (or anyone) mandate that you join a multi-platform surveillance ecosystem to use their hardware. On the other hand, a platform with a digital library-- like say a kindle-- requires a login and some personal info. We just need to set some limits so that companies don't abuse these relationships.
jeffwask 5y ago
In most gaming spaces, I would rather not give people the amount of info associated with my Facebook account
pronlover723 5y ago
This is a problem in general (not just FB) but, here are some apps I'd like to run on a VR device (Quest) but I don't want FB/Meta or anyone else to record that I'm running them or how often. NSFW https://www.patreon.com/meshedvr https://www.patreon.com/meshedvr https://sexgames.citor3.com/ https://sexgames.citor3.com/ http://www.illusion.jp/preview/honey2_dx/ http://www.illusion.jp/preview/honey2_dx/ This is also a reason I will personally never buy an adult game from Steam. I don't want my gamer account and my sexual preferences to be linked. Let me also add that inside out tracking means effectively the device is filming me in various states of undress and I have to trust that they aren't collecting any of that data for "quality assurance" etc... And with FB/Meta, that same data is data that's used to connect me with my Mom and family on FB. No, just, no!
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

tomc1985 5y ago

Why do we need an account anyway?? How about ... no accounts.

nickthegreek 5y ago

If your facebook account gets banned for some reason, you would lose your entire paid game library and would not be able to use the hardware you spent your cash on.

nsxwolf 5y ago
Now your Meta account can get banned for some reason. I assume the ToS will be very similar. It's a platform, you can say things on it, you can potentially abuse people on it. There may come a day where the world is utterly broken for the unaugmented, just a confusing sterile landscape camouflaged in QR codes. Getting kicked off the Metaverse will be a terrifying form of exile. But it will all be a private company's decision, so that will make it OK.
- 14 5y ago
  It is still better to keep as many accounts separate as possible. At least right now if you get banned from Facebook your google account doesn’t get banned also. And though I have never been banned from Facebook I wouldn’t want to tie real life game purchases to a social media account where saying the wrong thing might end you up in trouble. Hard pass.
  - Liquix 5y ago
    Not being banned is nice, but keeping your accounts separate does nothing to prevent the data points you mentioned being linked, especially within the Meta ecosystem. Even outside of the ecosystem, there are billion dollar companies that are very very good at tying together all your 'unrelated' accounts/data points and selling these packages to the highest bidder. It's prudent to assume that big brother and anyone else who cared enough to look could link said activity to you.
    - hairofadog 5y ago
      I keep thinking of that scene from The Beatles' Help in which they all walk into the same apartment through four different doors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx_7xjpySK0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx_7xjpySK0
- ramphastidae 5y ago
  > There may come a day where the world is utterly broken for the unaugmented, just a confusing sterile landscape camouflaged in QR codes https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs
  - hairofadog 5y ago
    Wow, really well done. Thanks for that.
arthur_sav 5y ago
Bingo. I don't want my online persona to be tied to one account or company. Big tech companies are pushing for a 360 approach where all you media, entertainment, work and even finance happens on their platform. But what happens when one of their "AI" bots flags you for some arbitrary reason or they simply don't like you? Google is notorious for automatically banning accounts and it's virtually impossible to get a resolution. Bots ban you and bots "answer" you plea for resolution "We've looked into the issue and you're still banned. Bye." So yeah, facebook bundling all their services under one account is not acceptable.
- Digit-Al 5y ago
  That's the big problem with these massive tech companies. They want to suck more and more of your life into their ecosystems, but they don't want to take on the responsibility that comes with it. When losing your account just meant not being able to look at a few emails or social media their attitude was (almost) acceptable, but when losing access to your account could mean not being able to pay for things (apple pay, google pay), not being able to access stuff you've paid for (any digital content purchases through the account), possibly not even being able to access your phone; then it becomes a more serious responsibility and just suspending an account for arbitrary reasons is no longer acceptable. Unfortunately, the tech companies don't seem to have got the message and still regularly ruin people's lives by banning accounts for no discernible reason and giving no recourse to getting them back. I think if they are going to continue on the course they are on there needs to be some sort of campaign to force them to take more responsibility and to give people a proper channel to get bans investigated. Enforced by some sort of ombudsman or something. Another option could be that if an account is banned for ToS violations the account holder can still log in and access "essential" services such as payments, plus have read-only access to stuff like emails and photos so they can still rescue their lives. I would say a mix of both will be essential.
  - vineyardmike 5y ago
    > Another option could be that if an account is banned for ToS violations the account holder can still log in and access "essential" services such as payments, plus have read-only access to stuff like emails and photos so they can still rescue their lives. In some countries (France?) requires that online purchased products are transferable like in the real world. Mostly this is used for game resale, but it should enable you/the company to transfer purchases to a new account. "You banned me, but give my wife the games I bought"
sillysaurusx 5y ago
This has actually happened, too! I remember a big article about it on HN. Unfortunately I have no time to scrounge it up, but perhaps someone else remembers and can link to it.
- elliekelly 5y ago
  IIRC there’s also a similar lawsuit against Apple. Someone who had purchased quite a lot of content with their Apple ID had their account suspended. I don’t recall the details either but I do remember reading their complaint and thinking they had quite an interesting and creative angle to get around Apple’s TOS that purport to allow Apple to cancel your account at any time for any reason. Edit: Thread discussing the Apple ID suit https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26890055 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26890055
ceejayoz 5y ago
Sure, but that's true whether it's a Facebook account, an Oculus account, a Quest account, or a Meta account, right?
- kjaftaedi 5y ago
  Of this list only one of these creates an account that is searchable and contactable by the general public, and only one of these will ban you if you use a profile photo of anything other than your own face.
8ytecoder 5y ago
Isn’t that true for Apple, Google, Amazon and Microsoft as well? I have games on Xbox, movies in iTunes, books and audiobooks with Amazon. I’ve hedged my bets but it still would be non-trivial loss for me.
- vineyardmike 5y ago
  This is one of the few good thins about streaming only. Apple Music ban you? Switch to Spotify!

emsy 5y ago

It still sucks, but there is no obligation for your real name and it shouldn’t be that hard find an anonymous payment method.

suprfnk 5y ago

> zuckerberginess Zuckiness, if you will.

na85 5y ago
Zuckery.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  Dumb Zuck.

sbilstein 5y ago

admittedly a very personal reason but I _don't_ want to be able to log in to facebook. Each property of theirs has it's own flavor but I personally find facebook with its treasure trove of decade old memories and connections to people i haven't seen in ages to be a bit of a despair and depression pit. I deleted my account specifically cause I felt like "why am I still looking at this stuff?" I would love to be able to use oculus or instagram (which i can now) without an FB account. Recently I created an account to use ad manager for my job and it's been really annoying how many friends (from the past) I get suggested and how much the algo seems to want to rebuild my old account...

georgeecollins 5y ago

It's unknown what a Meta account will be, but I can explain the difference between a FB account and an Oculus one. Having an Oculus account was pretty much like having a Steam account. It keeps track of your devices, your purchases, and you get emails or notifications (if you enable it)about products it thinks you want. Not perfect, but an a tradeoff I will accept for great devices and a good service. Having to log into FB means you have to create an FB account, and they try to stop you from setting up a fake one not connected to your real phone number and emails. Using your device will mean that sometimes you have to log into FB which can be a real hassle on your home browser or phone. You have to think about leaving cookies, not leaving certain apps on your phone, particularly if you are on Android, and if you are a Quest 2 developer you are an Android developer so all the security questions are x2. Plus, FB probably keeps this account you set up just to use your Oculus device and they post to it every time you buy a game or maybe every time you get an achievement. I have no idea if anyone actually has the misfortune to see those posts, but I wonder if they collect money on ads that are served to the accounts that have no other activity than automated Oculus posts. Someone here would know. I love the Quest 2 and I am really happy FB is doing this. Thank you FB for this.

kerng 5y ago
This entire rebranding is just a stunt to steer away from the mess Facebook creates in our society - it's still the same people in charge, even worse the Facebook people are moving more and more over to RL teams - so absolutley nothing will change, it will actually get worse as Facebook culture takes over. Maybe some fun startup like Magic Leap or maybe Snap rebrands to Antimeta.
- georgeecollins 5y ago
  I don't disagree, but keep in mind that any VR headset is probably going to involve an account and a login. When I download a game from Nintendo or Valve I am signing up for something and giving them personal info. We are going to have to strike some balances. It's really annoying to have FB (or anyone) mandate that you join a multi-platform surveillance ecosystem to use their hardware. On the other hand, a platform with a digital library-- like say a kindle-- requires a login and some personal info. We just need to set some limits so that companies don't abuse these relationships.

jeffwask 5y ago

In most gaming spaces, I would rather not give people the amount of info associated with my Facebook account

pronlover723 5y ago

This is a problem in general (not just FB) but, here are some apps I'd like to run on a VR device (Quest) but I don't want FB/Meta or anyone else to record that I'm running them or how often. NSFW https://www.patreon.com/meshedvr https://www.patreon.com/meshedvr https://sexgames.citor3.com/ https://sexgames.citor3.com/ http://www.illusion.jp/preview/honey2_dx/ http://www.illusion.jp/preview/honey2_dx/ This is also a reason I will personally never buy an adult game from Steam. I don't want my gamer account and my sexual preferences to be linked. Let me also add that inside out tracking means effectively the device is filming me in various states of undress and I have to trust that they aren't collecting any of that data for "quality assurance" etc... And with FB/Meta, that same data is data that's used to connect me with my Mom and family on FB. No, just, no!

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]