6 ms·

It begs the question: if they host the social media account and VR account and can reliably identify / link them on their end, and the laws and terms allow them

It begs the question: if they host the social media account and VR account and can reliably identify / link them on their end, and the laws and terms allow them to do so, does it really matter if they’re different accounts? It's still a win if you don't have a facebook account. For everyone else: I would assume that they will identify your accounts reliably.

Mindwipe 5y ago
It seems like it is better in that the arbitrary suspension of your Facebook account for moderation purposes (which is, due to how moderation at scale with machine learning just doesn't work, inherently random) won't cause you to lose access to your Oculus content and paid media. It's not a total win, probably, but part of the issue is that it's very unclear if you can have multiple redundant Meta accounts, what the ID requirements are for Meta accounts, what the process for appealing against moderation decisions for Meta accounts are, and what the terms of use for Meta accounts are.
KaiserPro 5y ago
They are explicitly banned from "soft matching" account now, by germany of all places. I suspect that what they are planning to do is to allow thirdparty authentication for "professional" VR devices.
chaostheory 5y ago
If they would have just stuck to this strategy, there would have been a lot less drama around the Quest 2 and more sales.
GuardianCaveman 5y ago
I guess it depends on what you’re worried about so if it’s identification and targeted ads you’re probably right but I was just worried about losing access if I close or get banned or something from my Facebook account for whatever reason.
ComodoHacker 5y ago
> does it really matter if they’re different accounts? Yes. If you lose access to one, you can keep the other.
- ncann 5y ago
  Also if you have a Quest that is shared in the family, you don't need to worry about your family members poking around your FB stuffs anymore.
  - Siira 5y ago
    Can Facebook reliably find fake, empty profiles created just for Oculus?
    - Damogran6 5y ago
      I wouldn’t bet against them. They can tell if you longer on an ad, just by measuring how fast you’re scrolling the feed.
    - Digit-Al 5y ago
      I recall reading something about having to have "an account in good standing", which certainly suggests that they can tell if an account is a real one or a dummy one.
    - alban23 5y ago
      My friend and I bought two Oculus Quest 2 for trying out out workrooms. We created new facebook accounts, oculus accounts as well as workrooms accounts. Both of us got the message that our accounts are not in good standing when trying workrooms. See screenshot from another poster in [1]. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/p8dasg/ive_been_trying_out_horizon_workrooms_but_i/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/p8dasg/ive_bee...
- phone8675309 5y ago
  You assume that linking them will prevent any bans from propagating from one to the other.
tw04 5y ago
>It's still a win if you don't have a facebook account. That's making the assumption that Facebook isn't just going to eventually force everyone to a "meta" account that spans all of their properties. Which is exactly what I expect they're going to do.
- mrfusion 5y ago
  Reminds me of google plus
  - xtracto 5y ago
    And Microsoft Passport ... or later .net Passport
  - ehnto 5y ago
    Google Plus is interesting because whilst the social platform failed, getting you to sign in across a huge swath of properties with your Google account certainly worked. They even had me along for the ride until they started automatically managing Google accounts through their browser. I think both Google and Facebook have pushed their luck recently and found the edges of their domain and their user's complacency. I imagine they'll just keep pushing and we'll eventually cave, but there has at least been some sensible backlash.
    - Macha 5y ago
      A unified google account predates Google+. Really the two pushes in that direction that Google+ contributed was when they decided to force the holdouts on legacy unlinked YouTube accounts to make G+ brand accounts, and when they shuttered orkut which had its own account system iirc.
    - thruway516 5y ago
      They all have Apple envy
- amelius 5y ago
  After the "Facebook pixel", yes.
theknocker 5y ago
This is not what begs the question means.
- beeboop 5y ago
  It isn't and I've long given up on correcting people. Language evolves and sometimes it unfortunately evolves in ways that actually make communication more difficult (such as the over usage of literally). I've come to terms that if someone uses "begs the question" and then actually follows it with the question it's raising then it's fine. It's still annoying in the same way as using "utilize" instead of "use". It just sounds like someone trying to project themselves in a certain way and it coming across sort of stilted
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > This is not what begs the question means. Yes, it is what “begs the question” as a transitive verb phrase means (though the colon was superfluous, there.) It is different from what “begs the question” as an intransitive verb phrase, which is older, means, but it also serves as something of a generalization and rationalization of the older phrase that makes the dubious and at best quite outdated translation from Latin have the appearance of some sensible relationship to the common definitions of English words in the phrase, so the pointless pedantry of opposing the clear and distinct transitive use which makes the intransitive use less detached from the rest of modern English is dumb. And tiresome.
  - svachalek 5y ago
    What is "the question" in the intransitive sense, that makes it not the object of the verb? I've given up complaining about the common usage, except that it's a nonsense phrase that apes the technical usage; there's no "begging" involved so the only reason not to say "raise the question" is because it sounds more scholarly to use the Latin, even incorrectly.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > What is "the question" in the intransitive sense, that makes it not the object of the verb? The phrase “begs the question” is an idiomatic phrase that operates as a verb phrase. It can be either intransitive (“X begs the question” or transitive “X begs the question Y”). In the intransitive use it refers to applying the petitio principii fallacy; in the intransitive form it refers to creating a demand for the answer to a specific question (the former can be viewed as a special case of the latter where the specific question is the justification for the same claim the argument was intended to justify.) > I've given up complaining about the common usage, except that it's a nonsense phrase that apes the technical usage; there's no "begging" involved so the only reason not to say "raise the question" is because it sounds more scholarly to use the Latin, even incorrectly. “begging the question” isn't Latin, its an (arguably quite bad even when it was coined and definitely dated) translation of Latin into English. The Latin is “petitio principii”.

Mindwipe 5y ago

It seems like it is better in that the arbitrary suspension of your Facebook account for moderation purposes (which is, due to how moderation at scale with machine learning just doesn't work, inherently random) won't cause you to lose access to your Oculus content and paid media. It's not a total win, probably, but part of the issue is that it's very unclear if you can have multiple redundant Meta accounts, what the ID requirements are for Meta accounts, what the process for appealing against moderation decisions for Meta accounts are, and what the terms of use for Meta accounts are.

KaiserPro 5y ago

They are explicitly banned from "soft matching" account now, by germany of all places. I suspect that what they are planning to do is to allow thirdparty authentication for "professional" VR devices.

chaostheory 5y ago

If they would have just stuck to this strategy, there would have been a lot less drama around the Quest 2 and more sales.

GuardianCaveman 5y ago

I guess it depends on what you’re worried about so if it’s identification and targeted ads you’re probably right but I was just worried about losing access if I close or get banned or something from my Facebook account for whatever reason.

ComodoHacker 5y ago

> does it really matter if they’re different accounts? Yes. If you lose access to one, you can keep the other.

ncann 5y ago
Also if you have a Quest that is shared in the family, you don't need to worry about your family members poking around your FB stuffs anymore.
- Siira 5y ago
  Can Facebook reliably find fake, empty profiles created just for Oculus?
  - Damogran6 5y ago
    I wouldn’t bet against them. They can tell if you longer on an ad, just by measuring how fast you’re scrolling the feed.
  - Digit-Al 5y ago
    I recall reading something about having to have "an account in good standing", which certainly suggests that they can tell if an account is a real one or a dummy one.
  - alban23 5y ago
    My friend and I bought two Oculus Quest 2 for trying out out workrooms. We created new facebook accounts, oculus accounts as well as workrooms accounts. Both of us got the message that our accounts are not in good standing when trying workrooms. See screenshot from another poster in [1]. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/p8dasg/ive_been_trying_out_horizon_workrooms_but_i/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/p8dasg/ive_bee...
phone8675309 5y ago
You assume that linking them will prevent any bans from propagating from one to the other.

tw04 5y ago

>It's still a win if you don't have a facebook account. That's making the assumption that Facebook isn't just going to eventually force everyone to a "meta" account that spans all of their properties. Which is exactly what I expect they're going to do.

mrfusion 5y ago
Reminds me of google plus
- xtracto 5y ago
  And Microsoft Passport ... or later .net Passport
- ehnto 5y ago
  Google Plus is interesting because whilst the social platform failed, getting you to sign in across a huge swath of properties with your Google account certainly worked. They even had me along for the ride until they started automatically managing Google accounts through their browser. I think both Google and Facebook have pushed their luck recently and found the edges of their domain and their user's complacency. I imagine they'll just keep pushing and we'll eventually cave, but there has at least been some sensible backlash.
  - Macha 5y ago
    A unified google account predates Google+. Really the two pushes in that direction that Google+ contributed was when they decided to force the holdouts on legacy unlinked YouTube accounts to make G+ brand accounts, and when they shuttered orkut which had its own account system iirc.
  - thruway516 5y ago
    They all have Apple envy
amelius 5y ago
After the "Facebook pixel", yes.

theknocker 5y ago

This is not what begs the question means.

beeboop 5y ago
It isn't and I've long given up on correcting people. Language evolves and sometimes it unfortunately evolves in ways that actually make communication more difficult (such as the over usage of literally). I've come to terms that if someone uses "begs the question" and then actually follows it with the question it's raising then it's fine. It's still annoying in the same way as using "utilize" instead of "use". It just sounds like someone trying to project themselves in a certain way and it coming across sort of stilted
dragonwriter 5y ago
> This is not what begs the question means. Yes, it is what “begs the question” as a transitive verb phrase means (though the colon was superfluous, there.) It is different from what “begs the question” as an intransitive verb phrase, which is older, means, but it also serves as something of a generalization and rationalization of the older phrase that makes the dubious and at best quite outdated translation from Latin have the appearance of some sensible relationship to the common definitions of English words in the phrase, so the pointless pedantry of opposing the clear and distinct transitive use which makes the intransitive use less detached from the rest of modern English is dumb. And tiresome.
- svachalek 5y ago
  What is "the question" in the intransitive sense, that makes it not the object of the verb? I've given up complaining about the common usage, except that it's a nonsense phrase that apes the technical usage; there's no "begging" involved so the only reason not to say "raise the question" is because it sounds more scholarly to use the Latin, even incorrectly.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > What is "the question" in the intransitive sense, that makes it not the object of the verb? The phrase “begs the question” is an idiomatic phrase that operates as a verb phrase. It can be either intransitive (“X begs the question” or transitive “X begs the question Y”). In the intransitive use it refers to applying the petitio principii fallacy; in the intransitive form it refers to creating a demand for the answer to a specific question (the former can be viewed as a special case of the latter where the specific question is the justification for the same claim the argument was intended to justify.) > I've given up complaining about the common usage, except that it's a nonsense phrase that apes the technical usage; there's no "begging" involved so the only reason not to say "raise the question" is because it sounds more scholarly to use the Latin, even incorrectly. “begging the question” isn't Latin, its an (arguably quite bad even when it was coined and definitely dated) translation of Latin into English. The Latin is “petitio principii”.