8 ms·

Notably, of those bug reports, fewer than 1% (only 3 bugs) were specific to the Linux version of the game. That is, over 99% of the bugs reported by Linux gamer

by cs702 5y ago

Notably, of those bug reports, fewer than 1% (only 3 bugs) were specific to the Linux version of the game. That is, over 99% of the bugs reported by Linux gamers also affected players in other platforms. Moreover (quoting from the OP): > The report quality [from Linux users] is stellar. I mean we have all seen bug reports like: “it crashes for me after a few hours”. Do you know what a developer can do with such a report? Feel sorry at best. You can’t really fix any bug unless you can replicate it, see it with your own eyes, peek inside and finally see that it’s fixed. And with bug reports from Linux players is just something else. You get all the software/os versions, all the logs, you get core dumps and you get replication steps. Sometimes I got with the player over discord and we quickly iterated a few versions with progressive fixes to isolate the problem. You just don’t get that kind of engagement from anyone else.

elliekelly 5y ago
Are there any good articles on writing helpful bug reports? Whenever I submit a bug I try to give as much detail and be as specific as possible but I always imagine some dev somewhere reading it rolling their eyes at the unnecessary paragraphs I’ve submitted.
- ArloL 5y ago
  I can recommend https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
  - elliekelly 5y ago
    Thank you! I’m definitely guilty of mongoose-ing and diagnosing in my bug reports so this is very helpful!
    - jraph 5y ago
      > diagnosing in my bug reports It's probably fine, if you put it in a separate section, clearing indicating that you are guessing. At work we have an optional "diagnostic" section in our ticket template, mainly intended for the team, but I'd be happy to see a user try to fill it. At worse it's harmless, at best it gives the actual reason, somewhere in the middle it can give ideas even if it is wrong.
      - krisoft 5y ago
        > At worse it's harmless I wish. It happens very often that such speculation derails the whole investigation. It really shouldn’t, but people are people. If the title of the bug report says that the foobar is broken it might take weeks until someone realises that they were wrong and actually the problem is in the frobnicator which feeds the foobar. Especially when because of this we assing the investigation to the wrong team. The foobar people don’t want to appear as if they don’t take the bug seriously, but all they check everything looks normal on their side.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - kens 5y ago
    It's interesting to compare that guide "How to report bugs effectively with ESR's "How to ask questions the smart way" [1]. They both cover similar material, but the styles are extremely different. The latter is rather hostile to the reader: "If ... then you are one of the idiots we are talking about." "If you decide to come to us for help, you don't want to be one of the losers." It's also heavy on "us vs them", how we are experts and you need to treat us properly. You know, it just occurred to me that the "How to ask questions" document is targeted as much at hackers and how they should maintain their "standards" than at users who are asking questions. For example, the document has approving examples of "logically impeccable but dismissive" hacker answers; these make more sense as instructions on how a hacker should respond than as something relevant to a user. I guess my point is that I had read the "How to ask questions" document for decades and viewed it as an objective document, not realizing how arrogant and "gatekeeping" it is. [1] http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
    - _dain_ 5y ago
      I agree, that "how to ask questions the smart way" article always left a bad taste in my mouth. Perhaps there should be a "how to answer questions" companion piece.
      - LambdaComplex 5y ago
        esr seems to have a pretty big ego, just based on his writings. (e.g. at one point he declared that he can tell if someone is smart or not just by looking at them)
        fao_ 5y ago
        He actually at one point wrote that he was a reincarnation of the god Pan, so he has/had a very literal god complex, too. It's such a shame that he was the person to interpret hacker culture for those of us in the future, because he's hardly a good lens
        5y ago
- drdrey 5y ago
  Use this template: 1. When I do this 2. Here is what I expect to happen 3. But instead, this happens
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    ...4. And this is my software version and Linux distro.
    - input_sh 5y ago
      Also useful to run the app from the terminal, replicate the bug, and see if any logs pop up.
  - toomanybeersies 5y ago
    Ugh no thanks, I'll just send them a screenshot and say "it's broken, please fix this!" If it's good enough for my colleagues to submit tickets like this, it's good enough for me!
  - bentcorner 5y ago
    One more tidbit: In the "When I do this", I find it useful to omit stuff that isn't interesting. Does the thing fail if I do something immediately? Or does it only occur if the application has been dormant for a few minutes? Does it only occur using the mouse, or can I use the keyboard? Get a good set of steps for reproducing the problem, but wander a little off those steps to see what is actually necessary. I've been surprised more than once when something that I thought was incredibly complex only required a few steps. And also been surprised when a complex repro was actually complex (e.g., if I drag quickly it works, but if I drag slowly it doesn't? what?).
    - account42 5y ago
      It's probably better to err on the side of having too many steps rather than missing cruicial steps to reproduce the problem.
- skeeter2020 5y ago
  bug reports and communication in general: If you've got a good summary/abstract more detail is always better. I don't know if I've ever had to talk to someone on my team about how they "over communicated" (not the same as TMI!). Make the receiver responsible for saying "OK, that's enough, got it!"
  - edflsafoiewq 5y ago
    Conversely I think you should generally write the smallest amount of text you can. It maximizes the chance someone else will actually read it.
    - codetrotter 5y ago
      I sometimes try to follow the journalistic reporting way of writing. (Not the clickbait style mind you.) So I start it off with a few brief paragraphs of text explaining what I did, what happened and what I expected to happen. Each paragraph only a couple of sentences long. Then below that I fill in with more details. Of course this still means that if you glance at it you still see a lot of text and may not bother reading. But my hope is that if by chance the recipient does read the first few paragraphs then it will provide the necessary motivation to either read on or to begin investigating on their own.
      - stjohnswarts 5y ago
        It's best to do something like 1. config and versions 2. the bug (failure to see expected results 3. how to reproduce in as simple terms as possible 4. any data such as screen shots, core dumps, logs, etc
- ognarb 5y ago
  https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved/Issue_Reporting https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved/Issue_Reporting This one is pretty good
- dylan604 5y ago
  Think about what you would want to know if someone was reporting the bug to you. Provide at least that much information.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  "Just the facts, Ma'am" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4LPkmGO5Cc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4LPkmGO5Cc
- westurner 5y ago
  From "Post-surgical deaths in Scotland drop by a third, attributed to a checklist" https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#comment-19684376 https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#comment-19684376 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19686470 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19686470 : > GitHub and GitLab support task checklists in Markdown and also project boards [...] > GitHub and GitLab support (multiple) Issue and Pull Request templates: > Default: /.github/ISSUE_TEMPLATE.md || Configure in web interface > /.github/ISSUE_TEMPLATE/Name.md || /.gitlab/issue_templates/Name.md > Default: /.github/PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md || Configure in web interface > /.github/PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE/Name.md || /.gitlab/merge_request_templates/Name.md > There are template templates in awesome-github-templates [1] and checklist template templates in github-issue-templates [2]. > [1] https://github.com/devspace/awesome-github-templates https://github.com/devspace/awesome-github-templates > [2] https://github.com/stevemao/github-issue-templates https://github.com/stevemao/github-issue-templates
- bedobi 5y ago
  As a dev, I think STEPS TO REPRODUCE Open foo click bar EXPECTED RESULT saves bar ACTUAL RESULT crashes with error x912344 MISC <any other logs, details here> is the best. It gives just the right amount of detail to get started, in a good, actionable format.
  - rnotaro 5y ago
    Yeah, that was basically most of the bug template we were filling when I used to work QA at Warner Bros. Games. Summary : Steps to reproduce : Expected result : Actual result : Build/Version : And a few more fields about platform, severity, etc. on Jira.
    - bedobi 5y ago
      Lucky you to have that standard enforced within the org! We don't so I pretty much invariably have to respond to "bug reports" ("foo doesn't work pls help") with "can you please format your bug report like this?" haha Out of curiosity, what does deving for Warner Bros mean? Like working on their internal systems and stuff? Netflix integrations or something? Sounds cool, bet you get to see movies before they come out too!
      - rnotaro 5y ago
        Sorry for the delay! I was working at their Montreal Studio. It's exclusively a video game studio. I was mostly working in QA on Middle-earth: Shadow of War. Even if the game is technically developed by Monolith Productions, Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment (WBIE) helps with their ressources (Artists, QA, Devs). There's also alot of internal tooling for Builds automation, Automated testing / QA Aids tools, etc that is handled by WBIE as the game editor. We didn't see movies before they got out but we had access to a 30-50 persons theater room that I was able to "rent" for free outside of business hours to watch movies with friends and show them the non-secure areas of the office. (Cafeteria (Free drinks!), gaming room, etc.)) I'm not really into commics but we had a room with thousands of comic books that we could take and read anytime we wanted (WB owns DC Entertainment). I worked there 6-8 months when I was out of school before getting my first dev job.
- blackearl 5y ago
  Usually sending just "help" and no other data is preferred. Don't send screenshots, don't make use of the ingame reporting tools (pressing F11), don't send steps to replicate.
JeremyNT 5y ago
Indeed, although my kneejerk reaction to the subject line was to expect another sad article about how it's not worth it to support Linux, this author seems very happy with the decision to do so. > Worth it? Oh, yes - at least for me. Not for the extra sales - although it’s nice. It’s worth it to get the massive feedback boost and free, hundred-people strong QA team on your side. An invaluable asset for an independent game studio.
- reginold 5y ago
  Maybe there's a better term to throw at this. "Even though just 5.8% of userbase, Linux users contribute 55% of helpful QA feedback"
  - lordnacho 5y ago
    Makes total sense. You're unlikely to use Linux if you're not something of a power user, at least. I would guess there's a lot more developer type people who use Linux, and they are the people who appreciate a good bug report. Same people also have a better idea of what might be causing the bug, how to get more information, logs, and so on.
    - atomicnumber3 5y ago
      They're also probably more used to the development process. With proprietary software, if you don't pay for a support contract, you basically can't submit a bug report - not really. You just ignore the bug and hope it's fixed in later versions. This applies to big AAA games too, so games aren't necessarily special. But indie games are in a weird spot where: 1. They're clearly artists. Nobody who want to make tons of cash becomes an indie game developer. If you have the aptitude to grind through the docs and make a game, you have the aptitude to grind leetcode and get a comfortable job somewhere that pays benefits and cash. And since they're artists, and they're making games, people empathize deeply with them. 2. They get a bit of a pass on the whole free software zealotry thing. I'm sure some people are still hard-line about it, but like, if I had to rank software in terms of freedom-threat-if-proprietary, something like Office or a compiler and towards the top, and Valheim is rather closer to the bottom. 3. They really have to listen to their players to survive, so they end up operating a lot more in the open. So they end up looking a lot more like an Open/Free project than you would expect.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
programmarchy 5y ago
Yep, it’s a great point to raise in support of releasing software for Linux. Adept users who can produce high quality bug reports and help solve bugs across all platforms provide a lot of value, perhaps enough to justify “only” a ~5% market share.
leeoniya 5y ago
more likely s/linux/developers, which i suspect represents the majority of linux users
FpUser 5y ago
>"we have all seen bug reports like: “it crashes for me after a few hours" Here is a gem from my collection of user "bug reports". The email with this exact words and nothing else - "something is wrong, what do I do?". I was biting my fingers trying not to reply with the first thing that came into my head.
- Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
  I don't hold myself and frankly answer that my crystal ball is on scheduled maintenance today.
  - andi999 5y ago
    So when will your crystal ball be ready, could you then asap adress the issue? Also keeping spare crystal balls would be really helpful.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
      We are a small company supporting a free opensource product, we can't afford spare crystal balls. Even the one we have was bought on a secondary market, warranty expired in late 14th century.
- jraph 5y ago
  "We are sorry to read that. Please clearly describe your problem to us so we can help you. Feel free to call us on this phone number: XXX-XXX-XXX" People don't always understand our perspective, we should guide them into doing the right thing and everybody will be happy. Save your generic answer so you don't waste your time doing so, but being pedagogical should be part of our work in my opinion.
  - FpUser 5y ago
    >"We are sorry to read that. Please clearly describe your problem to us so we can ..." What makes you think I do not do those things?
justicezyx 5y ago
God damnit... Clickbating is ruining any shred of useful information...
matheusmoreira 5y ago
The worst part? I've seen developers and companies actually complain about this. Just 6% of sales yet look at the huge amount of work they cause us!
- whateveracct 5y ago
  Huge amount of work they do for us
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Marketing/PR depts never see it that way. They open up new tickets, and that's the metric they care about. Not justifying it, but marketing depts rarely get it right.
    - ghostwriter 5y ago
      Marketing of Facebook was of no use when Facebook was laying flat not so long ago. It shows which department should really have a definitive voice in product metrics.
    - Aeolun 5y ago
      > marketing depts rarely get it right. Depends on whether you feel selling people stuff they don’t need is ‘not right’.
- woolion 5y ago
  This is the case with people selling business software, meaning bugs would mean wrong accounting or worse outcomes for the customers. Yet all layers in the company would treat these reports as an annoyance.
dv_dt 5y ago
I’ve often thought that game developers, esp indy studios, would benefit from doing first beta releases on Linux exclusively - wringing out a bunch of bugs, then doing a wider release.
- godelski 5y ago
  Well that might be one way to _accelerate_ your dev process.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  maybe alpha, beta level you gotta be on all platforms.
necovek 5y ago
Just from the title, I went in expecting that percentage to be much higher, but still expected I'd get a chance to complain how report quality was not taken into account (I expected Linux users to submit better reports)! Pleasantly surprised on all accounts :D
marcodiego 5y ago
Conclusion: want good testing and bug reports of your game? Support linux.
- css 5y ago
  Possibly, but how many of the bugs are rare edge cases (i.e., attempting to break the game) versus problems players actually face in normal gameplay? Without knowing what priority or severity these bugs take, it is difficult to say how useful the increased volume of feedback is.
  - perl4ever 5y ago
    I'm not a gamer, but from what I've read, the whole industry has been transformed by the incredible lengths people go to, to cheat. So I would expect that edge cases might be really relevant to mainstream use because everybody is trying to break the game.
  - bluepizza 5y ago
    Even if someone is not attempting to break the game, they might accidentaly hit those rare edge cases. Of course, you could infer the usefulness of the increased volume of feedback from the fact that a game author is extremely happy about it. Overall, I don't see any particular problems with having reported issues. We definitely don't pay cloud storage per open issue or anything like that. Initial assessment of a bug report is not particularly difficult either. I'm not sure if your concerns translate to actual negative impact.
  - freedomben 5y ago
    FTA it sounds like basically all of them were normal gameplay that affected all platforms. only 3 were linux specific.
  - pixl97 5y ago
    Depending on what kind of game you have, those exotic edge cases can come to be the dominant behavior in games, particularly multi-player where slight advantages can lead to some players dominating every one else.
Kye 5y ago
Sometimes I forget my detailed bug reports with steps I took, even if I can't reproduce it--since it might provide a hint to someone with insight into the programs internals--, are a weird outlier.
shultays 5y ago
I am not sure why would one expect more linux bugs in a game made using a game engine (I couldn't find any info and I am assuming this game is one, correct me if I am wrong). If it is not working in linux, then it must be an engine bug, not a game one. If I am wrong then props to devs for having such a consistent game engine Perhaps other option is using cpp, and having UB that behaves differently in different compilers. But I doubt that as well
- freedomben 5y ago
  OP was not saying that 38% of the bugs are Linux-specific, he was saying that Linux users report many more bugs per capita than windows users (and he sees that as a good thing).
b0rsuk 5y ago
This was my hunch, and I just wanted it to be true. I'm very pleased it turned out to be that way.

by cs702 5y ago

elliekelly 5y ago

Are there any good articles on writing helpful bug reports? Whenever I submit a bug I try to give as much detail and be as specific as possible but I always imagine some dev somewhere reading it rolling their eyes at the unnecessary paragraphs I’ve submitted.

ArloL 5y ago
I can recommend https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
- elliekelly 5y ago
  Thank you! I’m definitely guilty of mongoose-ing and diagnosing in my bug reports so this is very helpful!
  - jraph 5y ago
    > diagnosing in my bug reports It's probably fine, if you put it in a separate section, clearing indicating that you are guessing. At work we have an optional "diagnostic" section in our ticket template, mainly intended for the team, but I'd be happy to see a user try to fill it. At worse it's harmless, at best it gives the actual reason, somewhere in the middle it can give ideas even if it is wrong.
    - krisoft 5y ago
      > At worse it's harmless I wish. It happens very often that such speculation derails the whole investigation. It really shouldn’t, but people are people. If the title of the bug report says that the foobar is broken it might take weeks until someone realises that they were wrong and actually the problem is in the frobnicator which feeds the foobar. Especially when because of this we assing the investigation to the wrong team. The foobar people don’t want to appear as if they don’t take the bug seriously, but all they check everything looks normal on their side.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- kens 5y ago
  It's interesting to compare that guide "How to report bugs effectively with ESR's "How to ask questions the smart way" [1]. They both cover similar material, but the styles are extremely different. The latter is rather hostile to the reader: "If ... then you are one of the idiots we are talking about." "If you decide to come to us for help, you don't want to be one of the losers." It's also heavy on "us vs them", how we are experts and you need to treat us properly. You know, it just occurred to me that the "How to ask questions" document is targeted as much at hackers and how they should maintain their "standards" than at users who are asking questions. For example, the document has approving examples of "logically impeccable but dismissive" hacker answers; these make more sense as instructions on how a hacker should respond than as something relevant to a user. I guess my point is that I had read the "How to ask questions" document for decades and viewed it as an objective document, not realizing how arrogant and "gatekeeping" it is. [1] http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
  - _dain_ 5y ago
    I agree, that "how to ask questions the smart way" article always left a bad taste in my mouth. Perhaps there should be a "how to answer questions" companion piece.
    - LambdaComplex 5y ago
      esr seems to have a pretty big ego, just based on his writings. (e.g. at one point he declared that he can tell if someone is smart or not just by looking at them)
      - fao_ 5y ago
        He actually at one point wrote that he was a reincarnation of the god Pan, so he has/had a very literal god complex, too. It's such a shame that he was the person to interpret hacker culture for those of us in the future, because he's hardly a good lens
        5y ago
drdrey 5y ago
Use this template: 1. When I do this 2. Here is what I expect to happen 3. But instead, this happens
- dotancohen 5y ago
  ...4. And this is my software version and Linux distro.
  - input_sh 5y ago
    Also useful to run the app from the terminal, replicate the bug, and see if any logs pop up.
- toomanybeersies 5y ago
  Ugh no thanks, I'll just send them a screenshot and say "it's broken, please fix this!" If it's good enough for my colleagues to submit tickets like this, it's good enough for me!
- bentcorner 5y ago
  One more tidbit: In the "When I do this", I find it useful to omit stuff that isn't interesting. Does the thing fail if I do something immediately? Or does it only occur if the application has been dormant for a few minutes? Does it only occur using the mouse, or can I use the keyboard? Get a good set of steps for reproducing the problem, but wander a little off those steps to see what is actually necessary. I've been surprised more than once when something that I thought was incredibly complex only required a few steps. And also been surprised when a complex repro was actually complex (e.g., if I drag quickly it works, but if I drag slowly it doesn't? what?).
  - account42 5y ago
    It's probably better to err on the side of having too many steps rather than missing cruicial steps to reproduce the problem.
skeeter2020 5y ago
bug reports and communication in general: If you've got a good summary/abstract more detail is always better. I don't know if I've ever had to talk to someone on my team about how they "over communicated" (not the same as TMI!). Make the receiver responsible for saying "OK, that's enough, got it!"
- edflsafoiewq 5y ago
  Conversely I think you should generally write the smallest amount of text you can. It maximizes the chance someone else will actually read it.
  - codetrotter 5y ago
    I sometimes try to follow the journalistic reporting way of writing. (Not the clickbait style mind you.) So I start it off with a few brief paragraphs of text explaining what I did, what happened and what I expected to happen. Each paragraph only a couple of sentences long. Then below that I fill in with more details. Of course this still means that if you glance at it you still see a lot of text and may not bother reading. But my hope is that if by chance the recipient does read the first few paragraphs then it will provide the necessary motivation to either read on or to begin investigating on their own.
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
      It's best to do something like 1. config and versions 2. the bug (failure to see expected results 3. how to reproduce in as simple terms as possible 4. any data such as screen shots, core dumps, logs, etc
ognarb 5y ago
https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved/Issue_Reporting https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved/Issue_Reporting This one is pretty good
dylan604 5y ago
Think about what you would want to know if someone was reporting the bug to you. Provide at least that much information.
WalterBright 5y ago
"Just the facts, Ma'am" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4LPkmGO5Cc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4LPkmGO5Cc
westurner 5y ago
From "Post-surgical deaths in Scotland drop by a third, attributed to a checklist" https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#comment-19684376 https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#comment-19684376 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19686470 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19686470 : > GitHub and GitLab support task checklists in Markdown and also project boards [...] > GitHub and GitLab support (multiple) Issue and Pull Request templates: > Default: /.github/ISSUE_TEMPLATE.md || Configure in web interface > /.github/ISSUE_TEMPLATE/Name.md || /.gitlab/issue_templates/Name.md > Default: /.github/PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md || Configure in web interface > /.github/PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE/Name.md || /.gitlab/merge_request_templates/Name.md > There are template templates in awesome-github-templates [1] and checklist template templates in github-issue-templates [2]. > [1] https://github.com/devspace/awesome-github-templates https://github.com/devspace/awesome-github-templates > [2] https://github.com/stevemao/github-issue-templates https://github.com/stevemao/github-issue-templates
bedobi 5y ago
As a dev, I think STEPS TO REPRODUCE Open foo click bar EXPECTED RESULT saves bar ACTUAL RESULT crashes with error x912344 MISC <any other logs, details here> is the best. It gives just the right amount of detail to get started, in a good, actionable format.
- rnotaro 5y ago
  Yeah, that was basically most of the bug template we were filling when I used to work QA at Warner Bros. Games. Summary : Steps to reproduce : Expected result : Actual result : Build/Version : And a few more fields about platform, severity, etc. on Jira.
  - bedobi 5y ago
    Lucky you to have that standard enforced within the org! We don't so I pretty much invariably have to respond to "bug reports" ("foo doesn't work pls help") with "can you please format your bug report like this?" haha Out of curiosity, what does deving for Warner Bros mean? Like working on their internal systems and stuff? Netflix integrations or something? Sounds cool, bet you get to see movies before they come out too!
    - rnotaro 5y ago
      Sorry for the delay! I was working at their Montreal Studio. It's exclusively a video game studio. I was mostly working in QA on Middle-earth: Shadow of War. Even if the game is technically developed by Monolith Productions, Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment (WBIE) helps with their ressources (Artists, QA, Devs). There's also alot of internal tooling for Builds automation, Automated testing / QA Aids tools, etc that is handled by WBIE as the game editor. We didn't see movies before they got out but we had access to a 30-50 persons theater room that I was able to "rent" for free outside of business hours to watch movies with friends and show them the non-secure areas of the office. (Cafeteria (Free drinks!), gaming room, etc.)) I'm not really into commics but we had a room with thousands of comic books that we could take and read anytime we wanted (WB owns DC Entertainment). I worked there 6-8 months when I was out of school before getting my first dev job.
blackearl 5y ago
Usually sending just "help" and no other data is preferred. Don't send screenshots, don't make use of the ingame reporting tools (pressing F11), don't send steps to replicate.

JeremyNT 5y ago

Indeed, although my kneejerk reaction to the subject line was to expect another sad article about how it's not worth it to support Linux, this author seems very happy with the decision to do so. > Worth it? Oh, yes - at least for me. Not for the extra sales - although it’s nice. It’s worth it to get the massive feedback boost and free, hundred-people strong QA team on your side. An invaluable asset for an independent game studio.

reginold 5y ago
Maybe there's a better term to throw at this. "Even though just 5.8% of userbase, Linux users contribute 55% of helpful QA feedback"
- lordnacho 5y ago
  Makes total sense. You're unlikely to use Linux if you're not something of a power user, at least. I would guess there's a lot more developer type people who use Linux, and they are the people who appreciate a good bug report. Same people also have a better idea of what might be causing the bug, how to get more information, logs, and so on.
  - atomicnumber3 5y ago
    They're also probably more used to the development process. With proprietary software, if you don't pay for a support contract, you basically can't submit a bug report - not really. You just ignore the bug and hope it's fixed in later versions. This applies to big AAA games too, so games aren't necessarily special. But indie games are in a weird spot where: 1. They're clearly artists. Nobody who want to make tons of cash becomes an indie game developer. If you have the aptitude to grind through the docs and make a game, you have the aptitude to grind leetcode and get a comfortable job somewhere that pays benefits and cash. And since they're artists, and they're making games, people empathize deeply with them. 2. They get a bit of a pass on the whole free software zealotry thing. I'm sure some people are still hard-line about it, but like, if I had to rank software in terms of freedom-threat-if-proprietary, something like Office or a compiler and towards the top, and Valheim is rather closer to the bottom. 3. They really have to listen to their players to survive, so they end up operating a lot more in the open. So they end up looking a lot more like an Open/Free project than you would expect.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

programmarchy 5y ago

Yep, it’s a great point to raise in support of releasing software for Linux. Adept users who can produce high quality bug reports and help solve bugs across all platforms provide a lot of value, perhaps enough to justify “only” a ~5% market share.

leeoniya 5y ago

more likely s/linux/developers, which i suspect represents the majority of linux users

FpUser 5y ago

>"we have all seen bug reports like: “it crashes for me after a few hours" Here is a gem from my collection of user "bug reports". The email with this exact words and nothing else - "something is wrong, what do I do?". I was biting my fingers trying not to reply with the first thing that came into my head.

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
I don't hold myself and frankly answer that my crystal ball is on scheduled maintenance today.
- andi999 5y ago
  So when will your crystal ball be ready, could you then asap adress the issue? Also keeping spare crystal balls would be really helpful.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
    We are a small company supporting a free opensource product, we can't afford spare crystal balls. Even the one we have was bought on a secondary market, warranty expired in late 14th century.
jraph 5y ago
"We are sorry to read that. Please clearly describe your problem to us so we can help you. Feel free to call us on this phone number: XXX-XXX-XXX" People don't always understand our perspective, we should guide them into doing the right thing and everybody will be happy. Save your generic answer so you don't waste your time doing so, but being pedagogical should be part of our work in my opinion.
- FpUser 5y ago
  >"We are sorry to read that. Please clearly describe your problem to us so we can ..." What makes you think I do not do those things?

justicezyx 5y ago

God damnit... Clickbating is ruining any shred of useful information...

matheusmoreira 5y ago

The worst part? I've seen developers and companies actually complain about this. Just 6% of sales yet look at the huge amount of work they cause us!

whateveracct 5y ago
Huge amount of work they do for us
- dylan604 5y ago
  Marketing/PR depts never see it that way. They open up new tickets, and that's the metric they care about. Not justifying it, but marketing depts rarely get it right.
  - ghostwriter 5y ago
    Marketing of Facebook was of no use when Facebook was laying flat not so long ago. It shows which department should really have a definitive voice in product metrics.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    > marketing depts rarely get it right. Depends on whether you feel selling people stuff they don’t need is ‘not right’.
woolion 5y ago
This is the case with people selling business software, meaning bugs would mean wrong accounting or worse outcomes for the customers. Yet all layers in the company would treat these reports as an annoyance.

dv_dt 5y ago

I’ve often thought that game developers, esp indy studios, would benefit from doing first beta releases on Linux exclusively - wringing out a bunch of bugs, then doing a wider release.

godelski 5y ago
Well that might be one way to _accelerate_ your dev process.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
maybe alpha, beta level you gotta be on all platforms.

necovek 5y ago

Just from the title, I went in expecting that percentage to be much higher, but still expected I'd get a chance to complain how report quality was not taken into account (I expected Linux users to submit better reports)! Pleasantly surprised on all accounts :D

marcodiego 5y ago

Conclusion: want good testing and bug reports of your game? Support linux.

css 5y ago
Possibly, but how many of the bugs are rare edge cases (i.e., attempting to break the game) versus problems players actually face in normal gameplay? Without knowing what priority or severity these bugs take, it is difficult to say how useful the increased volume of feedback is.
- perl4ever 5y ago
  I'm not a gamer, but from what I've read, the whole industry has been transformed by the incredible lengths people go to, to cheat. So I would expect that edge cases might be really relevant to mainstream use because everybody is trying to break the game.
- bluepizza 5y ago
  Even if someone is not attempting to break the game, they might accidentaly hit those rare edge cases. Of course, you could infer the usefulness of the increased volume of feedback from the fact that a game author is extremely happy about it. Overall, I don't see any particular problems with having reported issues. We definitely don't pay cloud storage per open issue or anything like that. Initial assessment of a bug report is not particularly difficult either. I'm not sure if your concerns translate to actual negative impact.
- freedomben 5y ago
  FTA it sounds like basically all of them were normal gameplay that affected all platforms. only 3 were linux specific.
- pixl97 5y ago
  Depending on what kind of game you have, those exotic edge cases can come to be the dominant behavior in games, particularly multi-player where slight advantages can lead to some players dominating every one else.

Kye 5y ago

Sometimes I forget my detailed bug reports with steps I took, even if I can't reproduce it--since it might provide a hint to someone with insight into the programs internals--, are a weird outlier.

shultays 5y ago

I am not sure why would one expect more linux bugs in a game made using a game engine (I couldn't find any info and I am assuming this game is one, correct me if I am wrong). If it is not working in linux, then it must be an engine bug, not a game one. If I am wrong then props to devs for having such a consistent game engine Perhaps other option is using cpp, and having UB that behaves differently in different compilers. But I doubt that as well

freedomben 5y ago
OP was not saying that 38% of the bugs are Linux-specific, he was saying that Linux users report many more bugs per capita than windows users (and he sees that as a good thing).

b0rsuk 5y ago

This was my hunch, and I just wanted it to be true. I'm very pleased it turned out to be that way.