7 ms·

Many people only use Windows because the software they have don't have a Linux build. Maybe people should start pressuring vendors to make Linux builds and that

Many people only use Windows because the software they have don't have a Linux build. Maybe people should start pressuring vendors to make Linux builds and that could end Windows.

gavinray 5y ago
Bingo. Switched from 10 years of Debian-based linux (mostly Ubuntu, recently Pop_OS) to Windows because of some MIDI driver thing I could not get to install in WINE. I have had a significantly less pleasant time on both Win10 and Win11, and it's slow as hell. Ubuntu/Ubuntu-derivatives with Regolith as a DE + Tiling WM is the best computing experience I've ever had (Disclaimer: Have never used a Mac. Have been told OSx is better than Linux by people who have used both for long time.) https://regolith-linux.org/ https://regolith-linux.org/ The ironic thing is that, I later had a passing convo with a developer of a DAW, who told me that MIDI driver stuff is usually for running specific software from the vendor and that MIDI is universal over USB. So I never even needed to switch in the first place! I was just too hardware-stupid to know this! Oh man it hurts my soul. I could switch back but it takes a whole weekend to properly backup + wipe and setup a machine. I think I am going to go back to Pop_OS or Ubuntu though.
- swiley 5y ago
  >slow as hell It's surprising how poorly Windows performs. Many people who don't use it may have not noticed how bad it's gotten in the last 5 years.
- nicolas_t 5y ago
  > (Disclaimer: Have never used a Mac. Have been told OSx is better than Linux by people who have used both for long time.) As someone who used both for a long time, I would agree 2-3 years ago, now though I'd say I prefer Linux. I do really love the new m1 macs in term of temperature control and performance though. The advantage of Linux is that when it doesn't work it's much easier to diagnose and fix by yourself, that didn't use to be a problem on macs because Apple's QA was much better and they were pretty stable (if you skipped the first 3-4 months of a new OS release) but nowadays, it's a lot less stable, my mac cannot even go to deep sleep properly (which ironically used to be a major pain on linux) and it's just a black box that's hard to diagnose but doesn't work well enough to justify it being a black box. And for the mac, I used to use things like SIMBL to modify the system exactly how I liked it but all of that has been slowly removed by Apple. Now I just want the flexibility of Linux.
  - gavinray 5y ago
    > "I would agree 2-3 years ago, now though I'd say I prefer Linux" This is an interesting anecdote. Do you have anything in particular that makes you think this, or is it an overall shift in feel? Also curious to hear which distro you use Call me a heretic, but I am jealous of the M1 performance-for-price being outside the Apple ecosystem and have thought to buy an M1 laptop and wipe it + put Asahi Linux on it hahaha
    - nicolas_t 5y ago
      I mostly use Arch Linux. Used to use Gentoo for years before that. Mostly it's the continuous QA problem I've been getting (my mba not going to deep sleep is a big one), the dumbing down of the OS X interface and the fact that I can no longer easily use tools like SIMBL to extend applications. It's a bit the straw that broke the camel back. As time went on, little things became more and more aggravating. I'm eagerly watching Asahi Linux's progress :)
  - timellis-smith 5y ago
    I'm due for an upgrade of laptop at work and have an option of Mac Pro and XPS running Linux. Despite all the goodness of the M1, I still think I prefer working in a Linux environment to Mac (probably going to choose pop os for its tiling)
- timellis-smith 5y ago
  I have a core i5 mini computer which I spin up every couple of months and it always amazes me that for the first 20 minutes or so the CPU runs at 100% while windows checks for updates (obviously this wouldn't happen if I ran it daily, but still Linux never does this)
dncornholio 5y ago
You mean, just like Apple did?
pjmlp 5y ago
Ironically I have been using Linux via VMWare for about 10 years now, because I got fed up with Year of Linux Desktop, which to this day still doesn't provide a proper experience to anyone that cares about graphics programming and usable UI/UX tooling. When my Asus Netbook dies (1215B with XUbuntu), the next UNIX travel laptop will be an Air. So you can spare the talk about how much GNU/Linux has progressed, since I see it every time I take that netbook into use.
- gavinray 5y ago
  > "which to this day still doesn't provide a proper experience to anyone that cares about graphics programming and usable UI/UX tooling." Genuinely curious what doesn't work in IE Ubuntu 21.04 for you? Not one of those raving Linux zealots (don't really care that much about privacy), I've just had positive experiences on Linux -- not using it masochistically for ethical reasons, but because it worked very well for me. So I would be interested in hearing the other side of the coin, since you've been around the block a time or two.
  - blep-arsh 5y ago
    I'm not the person you were replying to, but here's the straw that broke this multilingual camel's back: unless Gnome is running under Wayland, switching the keyboard layout steals the input focus away from the foreground window briefly, causing focus-loss event handlers to fire. This might seem an easily fixable minor issue but it's actually a decade-old hairball which significantly harms the experience and can't be fixed cleanly under X.
    - yyyk 5y ago
      I don't recall this ever happening to me in KDE under X, at least not in a way I've noticed.
      - blep-arsh 5y ago
        It's a Gnome-specific thing
huhtenberg 5y ago
It obviously won't end Windows. Not will actually make any sizeable dent in Windows marketshare. That's a pipe dream. Vast majority of people use Windows because it comes preinstalled. And it comes preinstalled for business reasons that are very hard to counter or reverse. The only way to weaken Windows is through legislative measures and that ain't likely to happen.
Arisaka1 5y ago
The thing is, vendors will only invest resources required to make Linux builds if there's a market that justifies the investment. The only pressure companies can feel is the pressure that comes from the promise of making more money.
peteri 5y ago
There are several reasons for Windows popularity today: Active Directory - The centralised control it gives corporates. Games and DirectX - Although this seems to be getting to be less of a reason. Backwards compatibility - Windows 16 bit apps are now dead, but you can take the VB6 code I wrote pre-Y2K and run it today. Linux fragmentation - It's difficult to support all the Linux variations with a single binary (or at least it feels that way to me) I suspect it has a very high support cost. Related to this is the GPL and it's potential to force release of source code.
- Krasnol 5y ago
  There is also one reason many here don't see: you don't have to bother with the console. Everything can be installed and run with a mouse. Don't take me wrong. I understand the good sides of console programs. You can do a lot there but your average user doesn't care.
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    What popular end-user software cannot be installed and run with a mouse in e.g. Ubuntu?
    - Krasnol 5y ago
      The fact that you had to narrow it down to some arbitrary "popular" category to not touch the topic speaks for itself.
      - dotancohen 5y ago
        Alright then, what unpopular end-user software cannot be installed and run with a mouse in e.g. Ubuntu?
        addicted 5y ago
        I’m also struggling to understand why it would be difficult to create a mouse driven GUI for any CLI based app. In fact, there are apps that can do that automatically. Admittedly these apps tend to create not very good UIs, but the point is that it’s not hard at all.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Many people only use Windows because the software they have don't have a Linux build. Maybe people should start pressuring vendors to make Linux builds and that could end Windows.

gavinray 5y ago

Bingo. Switched from 10 years of Debian-based linux (mostly Ubuntu, recently Pop_OS) to Windows because of some MIDI driver thing I could not get to install in WINE. I have had a significantly less pleasant time on both Win10 and Win11, and it's slow as hell. Ubuntu/Ubuntu-derivatives with Regolith as a DE + Tiling WM is the best computing experience I've ever had (Disclaimer: Have never used a Mac. Have been told OSx is better than Linux by people who have used both for long time.) https://regolith-linux.org/ https://regolith-linux.org/ The ironic thing is that, I later had a passing convo with a developer of a DAW, who told me that MIDI driver stuff is usually for running specific software from the vendor and that MIDI is universal over USB. So I never even needed to switch in the first place! I was just too hardware-stupid to know this! Oh man it hurts my soul. I could switch back but it takes a whole weekend to properly backup + wipe and setup a machine. I think I am going to go back to Pop_OS or Ubuntu though.

swiley 5y ago
>slow as hell It's surprising how poorly Windows performs. Many people who don't use it may have not noticed how bad it's gotten in the last 5 years.
nicolas_t 5y ago
> (Disclaimer: Have never used a Mac. Have been told OSx is better than Linux by people who have used both for long time.) As someone who used both for a long time, I would agree 2-3 years ago, now though I'd say I prefer Linux. I do really love the new m1 macs in term of temperature control and performance though. The advantage of Linux is that when it doesn't work it's much easier to diagnose and fix by yourself, that didn't use to be a problem on macs because Apple's QA was much better and they were pretty stable (if you skipped the first 3-4 months of a new OS release) but nowadays, it's a lot less stable, my mac cannot even go to deep sleep properly (which ironically used to be a major pain on linux) and it's just a black box that's hard to diagnose but doesn't work well enough to justify it being a black box. And for the mac, I used to use things like SIMBL to modify the system exactly how I liked it but all of that has been slowly removed by Apple. Now I just want the flexibility of Linux.
- gavinray 5y ago
  > "I would agree 2-3 years ago, now though I'd say I prefer Linux" This is an interesting anecdote. Do you have anything in particular that makes you think this, or is it an overall shift in feel? Also curious to hear which distro you use Call me a heretic, but I am jealous of the M1 performance-for-price being outside the Apple ecosystem and have thought to buy an M1 laptop and wipe it + put Asahi Linux on it hahaha
  - nicolas_t 5y ago
    I mostly use Arch Linux. Used to use Gentoo for years before that. Mostly it's the continuous QA problem I've been getting (my mba not going to deep sleep is a big one), the dumbing down of the OS X interface and the fact that I can no longer easily use tools like SIMBL to extend applications. It's a bit the straw that broke the camel back. As time went on, little things became more and more aggravating. I'm eagerly watching Asahi Linux's progress :)
- timellis-smith 5y ago
  I'm due for an upgrade of laptop at work and have an option of Mac Pro and XPS running Linux. Despite all the goodness of the M1, I still think I prefer working in a Linux environment to Mac (probably going to choose pop os for its tiling)
timellis-smith 5y ago
I have a core i5 mini computer which I spin up every couple of months and it always amazes me that for the first 20 minutes or so the CPU runs at 100% while windows checks for updates (obviously this wouldn't happen if I ran it daily, but still Linux never does this)

dncornholio 5y ago

You mean, just like Apple did?

pjmlp 5y ago

Ironically I have been using Linux via VMWare for about 10 years now, because I got fed up with Year of Linux Desktop, which to this day still doesn't provide a proper experience to anyone that cares about graphics programming and usable UI/UX tooling. When my Asus Netbook dies (1215B with XUbuntu), the next UNIX travel laptop will be an Air. So you can spare the talk about how much GNU/Linux has progressed, since I see it every time I take that netbook into use.

gavinray 5y ago
> "which to this day still doesn't provide a proper experience to anyone that cares about graphics programming and usable UI/UX tooling." Genuinely curious what doesn't work in IE Ubuntu 21.04 for you? Not one of those raving Linux zealots (don't really care that much about privacy), I've just had positive experiences on Linux -- not using it masochistically for ethical reasons, but because it worked very well for me. So I would be interested in hearing the other side of the coin, since you've been around the block a time or two.
- blep-arsh 5y ago
  I'm not the person you were replying to, but here's the straw that broke this multilingual camel's back: unless Gnome is running under Wayland, switching the keyboard layout steals the input focus away from the foreground window briefly, causing focus-loss event handlers to fire. This might seem an easily fixable minor issue but it's actually a decade-old hairball which significantly harms the experience and can't be fixed cleanly under X.
  - yyyk 5y ago
    I don't recall this ever happening to me in KDE under X, at least not in a way I've noticed.
    - blep-arsh 5y ago
      It's a Gnome-specific thing

huhtenberg 5y ago

It obviously won't end Windows. Not will actually make any sizeable dent in Windows marketshare. That's a pipe dream. Vast majority of people use Windows because it comes preinstalled. And it comes preinstalled for business reasons that are very hard to counter or reverse. The only way to weaken Windows is through legislative measures and that ain't likely to happen.

Arisaka1 5y ago

The thing is, vendors will only invest resources required to make Linux builds if there's a market that justifies the investment. The only pressure companies can feel is the pressure that comes from the promise of making more money.

peteri 5y ago

There are several reasons for Windows popularity today: Active Directory - The centralised control it gives corporates. Games and DirectX - Although this seems to be getting to be less of a reason. Backwards compatibility - Windows 16 bit apps are now dead, but you can take the VB6 code I wrote pre-Y2K and run it today. Linux fragmentation - It's difficult to support all the Linux variations with a single binary (or at least it feels that way to me) I suspect it has a very high support cost. Related to this is the GPL and it's potential to force release of source code.

Krasnol 5y ago
There is also one reason many here don't see: you don't have to bother with the console. Everything can be installed and run with a mouse. Don't take me wrong. I understand the good sides of console programs. You can do a lot there but your average user doesn't care.
- dotancohen 5y ago
  What popular end-user software cannot be installed and run with a mouse in e.g. Ubuntu?
  - Krasnol 5y ago
    The fact that you had to narrow it down to some arbitrary "popular" category to not touch the topic speaks for itself.
    - dotancohen 5y ago
      Alright then, what unpopular end-user software cannot be installed and run with a mouse in e.g. Ubuntu?
      - addicted 5y ago
        I’m also struggling to understand why it would be difficult to create a mouse driven GUI for any CLI based app. In fact, there are apps that can do that automatically. Admittedly these apps tend to create not very good UIs, but the point is that it’s not hard at all.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]