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EU scientists reveal long-term brain damage caused by Covid
- CryptoPunk 5y agoInfluenza also affects endothelial cells: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4251441/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4251441/ If influenza were a novel virus, there would be daily stories on all the ways it adversely affects the body, and we would be under restrictions for decades from fear of "long influenza".
- johnchristopher 5y agoWe are under restrictions from fear of short covid killing, not long covid killing.
- CryptoPunk 5y agoThe infection fatality risk of short-COVID for the 18-49 demographic is 0.05%. For under 18 years it's 0.003%. And this is for unvaccinated people. For the vaccinated it's at least one order of magnitude lower. Under no sensible cost-benefit analysis, would you restrict the entire population with risk profiles like this.
- FeepingCreature 5y ago0.05% is huge. That's one death per 2000 infected. If you extrapolate that out to the world population, it's one-third of a holocaust. To me that handily justifies restricting the entire population. Then again, lots of things kill more people and don't mobilize nearly this level of response. Which I guess has to do with them only killing people in third world countries, cough malaria...
- CryptoPunk 5y ago0.05% is tiny. If you extrapolate any top 10 causes of disease death to the world population, it's holocaust-scale. It doesn't mean we impose severe restrictions, that significantly reduce quality of life, on the other 99.95%.
- FeepingCreature 5y ago> 0.05% is tiny. If you extrapolate any top 10 causes of disease death to the world population, it's holocaust-scale. Yes it is. If we could fix any of those with severe but temporary restrictions, I'd be all for it.
- CryptoPunk 5y agoNone of these problems, including COVID, could be permanently fixed with the COVID restrictions. COVID is endemic. The reduction in quality of life for the 99.95% as a result of the restrictions is far too high a price to pay even if it saved the entire 0.05% of this demographic who die from COVID. The costs to mental health, economic well-being, education, as a result of the restrictions, are also staggering. Any rational person would trade a 0.05% increase in chance of premature death, which is only 1/2,000, to live without the COVID-motivated restrictions for the remainder of their 80 year lifespan. Basic math tells you that. 0.05% of an 80 year lifespan is only 14 days. Would you endure all the COVID-related restrictions, for your entire life, just to add 14 days to your life? And this thought experiment is under the absolute best case scenario for the restrictions which is that they completely eliminate the risk of dying from covid which they do not in reality. I would bet for most people, the COVID restrictions reduce quality of life by at least 5%. Meaning people would be willing to shorten their lifespan by 5% in order to not live with them. A 0.05% risk of death doesn't even come close to justifying the restrictions. The simplistic narrative that supports these restrictions is simply wrong. It's unscientific and irrational and only supported due to the inertia of public opinion.
- Izkata 5y ago> 0.05% is huge. Big or small, it's the same as the yearly flu; it definitely does not justify the response.
- johnchristopher 5y agoIsn't the problem that trying to save someone dying from the flu requires less human resources than trying to save someone dying from Covid-19 ? And that Covid infects more people than the flu, making more people sick than the flu so Covid reduces our economic capacity more than the flu would ?
- CryptoPunk 5y agoCOVID hospitalization rates are 1-5% and much lower still for lower-risk demographics like those under 49. And hospitalization generally lasts a couple weeks, not more. Moreover, COVID burns itself out as the population lacking immunity dwindles with the pandemic's advance. It's a transient phenomenon. The economic damage it causes would seem to pale in compairson to the damage done by severe restrictions imposed for months/over-a-year on the entire population, including the majority who are healthy and relatively unsusceptible to it.
- Izkata 5y agoFlu hospitalization rate is a bit over 1%, and average a week stay. COVID19 is worse, but not by nearly as much as people seem to think.
- spurgu 5y agoOr people getting killed in traffic accidents. Yet we accept it as normal.
- johnchristopher 5y agoMy bad, I should have written something like `We are under restrictions from fear of short covid consequences, not long covid killing.`
- CryptoPunk 5y agoWhat I observe often happening in the public debate is that the unknowns related to long-COVID are the backup argument that the case for restrictions falls back on when the risks of short-COVID are presented and seen to be insufficient to justify such a severe government response.
- johnchristopher 5y agoI think I agree. Strangely I don't see it hammered a lot, at least in Europe. It's usually more about lessening pressure on healthcare. Well, on a personal level it is long Covid I fear the most (or even long term consequences of a mild covid) and yet I am uneasy about the argument that restrictions are put in place only to soften the impact of the pandemic on hospitals. It means that maybe if hospitals weren't full then our leaders wouldn't care about people getting covid ?
- q1w2 5y agoAny disease that can cause blood clotting will also impact the brain, as well as other tissues. This study focused on the brain, but it's well known that the same sort of damage occurs in other parts of the body.
- pibechorro 5y agoI remember reading a few months back about the revealed toxicity of the spike proteins, how they pass the blood brain barrier. It lines up with Covid "brain fog" symptoms being reported and it draws strong concerns over the mRna mass manufacturing of the spike protein within the body. We are in for many long term side effects popping up like this, when you rush new treatments to market this is expected.
- rrock 5y agoThe vaccine produces spike protein within your deltoid muscle cells, where it is rapidly degraded and presented to your immune system. It’s not running around in your bloodstream. Unlike the virus. Which means, incidentally, that if this is a concern of yours you should definitely prefer getting the vaccine to getting an infection.
- q1w2 5y agoThis is wrong in two important ways. 1. The vaccine does not stay in your muscle - obviously. It spreads out from the muscle slowly and does indeed enter your blood stream. 2. It is not put spike protein. It is an exposed spike protein on a larger stable "base" that ensures the spike doesn't degrade easily - so while it's smaller than the virus, the entire vaccine protein is significantly larger than just the spike.
- rrock 5y agoThere is no spike protein in the vaccine. There is mRNA. That mRNA needs ribosomes to make the spike protein. So think about where there are ribosomes, and where the protein is made, and you’ll find the correct answer. I don’t know where you heard the second point, but it is equally incorrect. The mRNA encodes just the spike, with two mutations to lock it into a pre-fusion conformation. Nothing there that qualifies as a “larger stable base”. The sequence is found here: https://web.archive.org/web/20210105162941/https://mednet-communities.net/inn/db/media/docs/11889.doc https://web.archive.org/web/20210105162941/https://mednet-co...
- s1ckz 5y ago"long-term brain damage caused by Covid" what about the "long-term brain damage caused by liberal douchebag fascist cock-sucking politicians" ? at least that is real
- the_only_law 5y ago> douchebag fascist cock-sucking It’s 2021, no need to suppress your sexuality and project on others.
- b3nji 5y agoIs this happening to people who have been vaccinated, or unvaccinated? Or both?
- prox 5y agoVaccination usually means less intense disease, and less issues. 95% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated people (clinical and ICU)
- the-dude 5y agoSources please.
- junon 5y agoAnecdotally, my home city's hospitals are so full that they're turning away people from the ER who have a low chance of survival, like heart attack victims. It's gotten so bad that the military was called in to restore peace. The doctors there were on a news segment, completely burnt out and in tears, saying that 0% of their COVID patients are vaccinated and they're overrun. So I believe this metric.
- abrichr 5y agoWhich town?
- junon 5y agoI don't like to say online but it's in NW USA.
- johnchristopher 5y agoWhat the, I was thinking you would say Romania, I just read vaccination is only 30% over there and they are planning to move patients to neighboring countries.
- throwawaysea 5y agoIs it possible that every illness, even the common cold, can have these side effects at some low level of incidence or low intensity? I feel like part of the reason we are speculating or noticing these issues with COVID is that it is so heavily studied and scrutinized, to an extent much greater than a typical seasonal flu or cold.
- orwin 5y agoSo I've researched this, because this question was asked like 6 month ago. The short answer is yes, mainly with viral infection. Note though that sometimes it might be symptoms, not the infection itself, that causes damages. But in the case of some viral infections, like the HxNx or SARS-CoV-2, but also varicella, it's the immune response that is too strong and attack the body.
- Traubenfuchs 5y agoMaybe, learn about: „post viral fatigue“
- tdrdt 5y agoIt is known viruses can damage nerves. And Corona viruses have been with us for ages.
- shoto_io 5y agoI happened to have a very bad flu back in 2017 or so. I couldn't smell nor taste anything for at least 3-4 months. It slowly came back, first with coffee, then the rest.
- WA 5y agoME/CFS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome In a way, I'm glad that Corona lifted the awareness about post-infection issues. The common knowledge usually was "you're sick for a week and then you're fine". I don't have ME/CFS, but my body started to react weird to some harmless common cold infections. My blood pressure drops and remains low, sometimes for weeks. Makes me feel dizzy, makes working out almost impossible. Also, I had some stomach bug several years ago with some side effects lasting for 2 months. Most people don't believe that a "harmless" infection can cause side effects for weeks (and neither did I), but it's a thing.
- richardw 5y agoThis looks like a better source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-021-00926-1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-021-00926-1
- alexbiet 5y agoIs the brain damage linked to covid propaganda or actual virus? Curious to know…
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 5y agoIf you were actually curious, you’d have clicked the link and read the article. The very first sentence states: > A European study has found that Covid-19 can affect blood vessels in the human brain Next paragraph: > Research by French, Spanish and German scientists published Thursday in the scientific journal Nature Neuroscience reveals that, in addition to attacking the lungs, the virus can also can kill certain brain cells.
- madballster 5y agoI wish these type of articles referenced a benchmark or baseline, such as "Corona virus damages XX percent more/less braun cells than recent strains of influenza virus".
- trompetenaccoun 5y agoWhy only recent strains? This may be the worst coronavirus outbreak in 100 years. It's reasonable to compare it with the worst flu strains. Which still killed more people btw. On a side note, since we now know the Wuhan lab did do gain of function research after all, which we were first lied to about, there is a very real possibility this virus was engineered. So we should be comparing it to weaponized flu strains as well. Stuff like this, also founded by the NIH, interestingly enough: https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2019/03/04/scientists-restart-research-on-creating-deadly-bird-flu-with-nihs-blessing https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2019/03/04/scien... A mere 2 years before this outbreak the NIH lifted their ban on these sort of experiments, btw: https://www.businessinsider.com/nih-lifts-ban-on-flu-mers-sars-virus-gain-of-function-research-2017-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/nih-lifts-ban-on-flu-mers-sa...
- op00to 5y agoThat Forbes article is opinion, not fact. Why do you insist on deception to make your point? Is it because much like your horse paste addled brain, your point is aimless and full of holes?
- shlpa 5y agoForbes article author: "I'm the Bloomberg Distinguished Professor of Biomedical Engineering, Computer Science, and Biostatistics at Johns Hopkins University." I thought we have been told to listen to scientists in the past 2 years! Incidentally, Dr. Fauci has used any number of deceptions to make his point. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wuhan virus was engineered.
- heavyset_go 5y agoForbes has a Medium-like program for writers, which is what that article was published under. It's more of a blog article than an actual Forbes article.
- bserge 5y agoSo does any other virus. Not to sound like a Covid braindamaged idiot here (from getting infected, cured, then getting a vaccine), but this kind of "news" won't help raise vaccination rates. Either deny hospitalization to unvaccinated people, or just fucking mandate vaccination. Just stop with the lockdowns and restrictions, just stop. People seem fine with ~10 vaccines for babies and several vaccines throughout their lives, but not the COVID one. Explain this idiocy.
- CryptoPunk 5y agoYes, deny hospitalization to unvaccinated people, at least in publicly funded hospitals. This is a much fairer way to deal with it than a mandate that forces people to vaccinate under duress. And stop worrying about the unvaccinated transmitting to the vaccinated. The risk to the vaccinated is sufficiently low that it should not be a dominating concern any way. Also, vaccination doesn't stop COVID transmission enough to create herd immunity even at near 100% coverage, so we have to resign to COVID being endemic, especially given how rapidly a single strand RNA virus mutates. The caveat is we could potentially eliminate COVID, influenza and a host of other viral infections, if we take the reigns off the pharmaceutical industry, by eliminating FDA approval requirements for vaccines. Machine learning has made enormous paradigm shifting breakthroughs in other fields, like natural language processing and protein folding, and could very well do the same for drug discovery and testing. Drug development could potentially keep up with the viral mutation rate if it could subsist solely on faster processes, and jettison the slower FDA mandated ones.
- wanderingmind 5y agoCan we also start denying hospitals to smokers and drunk drivers and along the way stop treating kidney and liver issues for alcoholics. I'm not a fan of anti vaxxers, but this is a slippery slope that can truly create a hunger games outcome.
- thioordc 5y agoIt’s already down the slope! It’s wrong to deny people the care they need.
- amyjess 5y agoI decided a while back that if I ever developed long covid, I'd off myself. This just confirms my priors. (fwiw I had my third Pfizer shot a little over three weeks ago, and I'm only just now starting to go to restaurants again)
- exporectomy 5y agoEven though the damage is potentially reversible? If you have such a hair trigger for suicide, have you considered it might be caused by mental illness?
- epicureanideal 5y agoWe don’t know what kind of treatments will be available in a few years to treat long Covid. As long as life is bearable, I would suggest to continue living even if you get long covid, and hope for the best in rapid technological improvement.
- WithinReason 5y agoI see no evidence that long COVID causes brain damage.
- nicoburns 5y agoI'm in a group for long covid sufferers, and there's quite a few who have had neurological damage confirmed by a neurologist. It's not the most common symptom, but it certainly seems to be happening to some people.
- WithinReason 5y agoCould the neurological damage be from COVID instead? Long COVID as I understand it is distinct from having COVID.
- nicoburns 5y agoAs I understand it, damage from the initial covid infection that causes ongoing symptoms is exactly what people mean when they use the term "long covid". People with long covid are (as far as we know) no longer infected with covid. Long covid is distinct from having covid in that covid doesn't cause this damage in everyone who is infected. In this way it is similar to ME / Chronic Fatigue Syndrome that can also be caused by other viruses, although in the case of covid the damage is not limited to causing fatigue and can cause issues with a host of other parts of the body including the lungs, heart, nervous system and immune system.
- LTmufufu 5y agoMRI N= 17 (23 control) The study is as precise and generalizable as 17 anecdotes...
- aqme28 5y agoYou mean 40 anecdotes? Also I totally get your point, but a comparative study is still much more valuable than a set of anecdotes, even if N=2. A low sample size mostly just means a higher bar for statistical significance. It doesn't mean a study is useless.
- usgroup 5y agoIts not supposed to be ground for generalisation, but it may be the discovery of interesting side-effects to learn more about: (1) "Scientists discovered that the virus had destroyed endothelial cells by observing patients who died of Covid." (2) "In the first instance, it should be pointed out that the deaths observed were rare and, above all, that the damage to the brain was potentially reversible." (3) "The study shows this could be the case for patients who developed a severe form of the disease. For people who have had a more minor form of the illness, however, nothing is certain." I.e. these people died ... so selection bias is quite likely.
- Someone 5y agoAs to #2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-021-00926-1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-021-00926-1 says: “we sought to reproduce the findings in two animal models of SARS-CoV-2 infection. In hamsters infected with SARS-CoV-2, the length of string vessels increased on day 4 after infection […]. Interestingly, _the_increase_was_transient_ and normalized at later time points. A similar finding was observed in K18-hACE2 mice” ⇒ patients who are seriously ill have brain damage. If you subsequently die, you won’t recover. I read this more a (possibly tiny, possibly large; I can’t tell) contribution to the discussion on whether COVID enters the brain than about long-term damage.
- daddylongstroke 5y agoYeah COVID is definitely a vascular disease and unfortunately that effects all parts of the body. It is interesting that my wife's triage line is now handling many many reports from single and double vaccinated people getting partial or full paralysis, or other serious neurological issues/syndromes within 24-36 hours post inoculation. Just when she thinks she's going to get the J&J so that she can keep her job after Dec. 8th (despite being 100% remote and already having natural immunity), she gets yet another call about serious and often unreported events from a vaccinated patient, which change her mind. It (at least the spike protein generated by vaxx) definitely seems to cross the blood-brain barrier in some people to some degree, and I believe the bio-distribution study Japanese researchers carried out demonstrated that.
- effie 5y agoSMH, no scientist would label self as "EU scientist". They are from different countries, so it's "international team of scientists", or "european team of scientists".
- _Wintermute 5y agoIt does seem a bit strange as some of the authors are from the US and Switzerland.