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European Parliament: UK and US are global hubs for money laundering, tax evasion
- Tycho 5y agoThe EU is a hub for stifling bureaucracy and regulation.
- lm28469 5y agoI mean, it was created for that...
- quijoteuniv 5y ago... which aims to prevent the abuse of its citizens
- kybernetyk 5y agolol, good joke
- logicchains 5y ago> ... which aims to prevent the abuse of its citizens There's no evidence that anti-money laundering laws have reduced crime rates, just like how the war on drugs hasn't been effective at stopping drug abuse. There's plenty of evidence on the other hand that they make life harder for normal citizens; e.g. how hard it is for an American to open a bank account in Europe nowadays.
- vincnetas 5y agonot sure, but for me as EU citizen its very easy to open bank account in EU. And i get good protection of my funds mandated by government (bureaucracy).
- lixtra 5y agoAs EU-citizen who recently moved countries in Europe I cannot agree. It took me about 2 months to open a business account for an at this point registered business in the country. The private account was a bit faster, but not until I actually moved there. At the same time it was almost necessary to have an account in the country to prove enough funds to sustain myself to register with authorities. In time and mindshare it easily cost 1000+ EUR. In the end I don’t see how the provided documents help to avoid money laundering. I opened bank accounts in non-EU and non-European countries before and both times it boiled down to “bring these well defined documents” and it was done in a 30 minutes session to have a bank account next week latest (although both experiences are more than 10 years ago).
- midasuni 5y agoThat is because of the US government taxing its citizens when they live abroad and putting requirements on the banks for reporting. Having american customers is often more work than it’s worth
- logicchains 5y ago>and putting requirements on the banks for reporting. It does this for anti-money-laundering reasons.
- jokethrowaway 5y agoThe only entities abusing me in Europe are my government - which steals from my profits every month - and criminals - who, in my personal experience, were always left unpunished by a useless police system which does nothing against scammers but persecute people smoking weed and a judicial system which is slow, expensive and mostly useless at regaining my stolen money, even when given plenty of proof and the location of the scammer (hell, they accomplished nothing even after they jailed and released the guy). If you want justice in Europe you need to hire a thug.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jokethrowaway 5y agoStop charging and you won't have problems with tax evasion. Decriminalise drugs and criminals will lose most of their revenue.
- nix23 5y ago>Decriminalise drugs and criminals will lose most of their revenue. They are already into ransomware anyway. And maybe decriminalize human trafficking too? All problems solved right?
- brigandish 5y ago> And maybe decriminalize human trafficking too? The difference between the drug trade and human trafficking is that it may be argued that the former does not involve harm of others. The latter could never support such an argument.
- nix23 5y ago>is that it may be argued that the former does not involve harm of others. You can ask afghan puppy farmers about that, and every single crack/heroin user if it's not harm-full, just decriminalize it, solves a really minor problem. You can see it with prostitution, it's legal in most of Europe, however it's still in the hand organized crime groups, nothing has changed.
- brigandish 5y agoThe point was the huge difference between what may be argued (successfully) about something and what could not be argued about something (because it's clearly impossible to be successfully argued). That the mays are contentious is implied by the may, but it is possible to put one's weight behind it. Proposing arguments against it won't change that.
- sofixa 5y ago> You can see it with prostitution, it's legal in most of Europe, however it's still in the hand organized crime groups, nothing has changed It's slightly less bad for sex workers, since their activity not being a crime means they can theoretically go to the police, which is better than nothing.
- moffkalast 5y agoIsn't it more like Ireland, Dublin specifically?
- gostsamo 5y agoIreland shares tax information, unlike the british former colonies, the US included.
- Goz3rr 5y agoIreland is part of the EU, not the UK
- vinay427 5y agoI don't think the GP comment implied otherwise, but rather suggested Ireland/Dublin as a response to the UK and the US being named in the title.
- _-david-_ 5y agoThat was the point. The US and UK are being called out by the EU while their own member state (Ireland) is doing the same thing.
- ch_123 5y agoIreland is used for tax _avoidance_. As problematic as that is, I don't believe we have a particular problem with money laundering or [illegal] tax evasion. On the other hand, English financial institutions (particularly in the City of London which has different legal jurisdiction from the rest of the UK) is well known to turn a blind eye to multiple billions of dirty money flowing through it.
- rusk 5y agohttps://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-banks-and-funds-used-in-multibillion-euro-tax-fraud-by-hedge-funds-traders-1.4706093 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-ban...
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- te_chris 5y agoLondon thrives on it. I know so many people who just wink wink nudge nudge allusions to doing things with all sorts of corrupt money here. It’s mostly just shrugged off, either it’s investing in you and you benefit, or you’re facilitating it in a transaction and you benefit, or you’re handling it somehow and take a cut. I honestly don’t know you stop it
- rusk 5y agoWell that’s what Brexit was all really about init
- CodeGlitch 5y agoIt was happening before 2016 whilst we were in the EU, so not really.
- rusk 5y agoYup, and there was this little thing of pan european financial regulation coming down the tracks! So yeah
- FDSGSG 5y agoWhy should it be stopped? I think most economists would see that as a huge mistake. Dirty money coming in does not need to be functionally different from clean money. Only thing that matters is what it's spent on. Why should a country refuse "dirty" foreign investment?
- WastingMyTime89 5y ago“Slavery is fine as long as I don’t see it.”
- FDSGSG 5y agoThis has nothing to do with slavery. Most countries allow you to import products of slave labour, even the US only banned this a few years ago. Many western countries seem to be okay with slavery they can see too, read the thirteenth amendment of the US constitution for an example.
- peter_retief 5y agoAll wealthy countries have corruption, poor countries even more so but nobody cares.
- beardyw 5y agoIt seems likely that richer countries have more corruption by value. As to the number of people involved it would be interesting to know, but difficult to ascertain.
- fakedang 5y agoBrussels being butthurt that they aren't the hub for money laundering and tax evasion. I'm sure a lot of MEPs themselves are no different from their MP and Congressmen counterparts.
- matthewmorgan 5y agoMoney laundering and tax evasion must obviously sometimes happen in gigantic financial hubs like London and New York. What the EU is upset about is their failure to supplant either of those hubs with Paris or Frankfurt.
- libertine 5y ago>What the EU is upset about is their failure to supplant either of those hubs with Paris or Frankfurt. What makes you say this?
- idkwhoiam 5y agoAnd EU is a hub of excessive taxation
- thanatos519 5y agoAt least I get what I pay for here.
- nix23 5y agoYes a Airport in Berlin and a Bus-station that is 15x more expensive then predicted from 3m to 43m. ;)
- FDSGSG 5y agoWe could call them hubs for money laundering and tax evasion, or we could try to use more neutral terminology and simply refer to them as "privacy hubs" or something similar, no? Not that the UK would be a particularly great example of such with the introduction of the UWO. It's hilarious how many people pretend to support a right to privacy until it's about other people's money. Always gotta drag down instead of rise above.
- newsclues 5y agoPrivacy is not a free pass to commit crimes especially if privacy is only for the wealthy.
- FDSGSG 5y agoWhere'd you get that idea? I doubt anyone believes that. Nobody is arguing for free passes for criminals. A couple of people breaking the law is no excuse for financial mass surveillance (or any other kind of mass surveillance). Arguing against mass surveillance is not the same as arguing for free passes, no matter how you might like to twist it.
- inter_netuser 5y agoUWO?
- FDSGSG 5y agoUnexplained Wealth Order. If you don't want to tell where your assets are from, the government can keep them.
- inter_netuser 5y agoah, nice. another reverse order law. Maybe soon we will finally go back to the Star Chamber days, can't wait. /s
- neximo64 5y agoSo basically the others not yourself. Ireland, Malta, Cyprus.. nah. I recall not so long ago a prominent European bank's branch in Lithuania making headlines for very explicitly laundering cash. Then there's the whole ex dividend fiasco. There's a couple of frauds with Steinhoff, Wirecard... I mean seriously all you got to look is a bit deeper.. More likely this is a political stunt either against the UK or for the banking union as one of the things it can solve for (a common anti fraud system, etc) [1] https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1240097/lithuania-cooperating-with-denmark-in-danske-bank-money-laundering-investigation https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1240097/lithuania-c...
- rusk 5y agoDon’t forget Luxembourg, Monaco … EDIT the Netherlands is another one that flies under the radar quite well - Lichtenstein I believe has an up and coming financial services industry too
- pvitz 5y agoLiechtenstein and Monaco are not members of the EU.
- throw63738 5y agoThose countries are not really tax heavens anymore. Especially Ireland changed a lot!
- belter 5y ago
- based2 5y agohttps://european-pirateparty.eu/european-parliament-stays-non-transparent-kolaja-calls-for-roll-call-votes/ https://european-pirateparty.eu/european-parliament-stays-no...
- based2 5y agohttps://www.europarl.europa.eu/sed/doc/news/flash/23845/P9_PV(2021)10-21(RCV)_fr.docx https://www.europarl.europa.eu/sed/doc/news/flash/23845/P9_P... votes
- Hokusai 5y ago> The parliament identified the most urgent measures the EU needs to take to close loopholes that currently allow for tax avoidance, money laundering and tax evasion on a massive scale. This is a very important step to improve Europe economy. The more corrupt is a government the more difficult is for business to thrive. Tax evasion gives an economic advantage to law breakers that cheat instead of competing in an open market to earn that money. > Two thirds of the shell companies in the Pandora Papers are located in the British Virgin Islands, which has never featured on the EU blacklist and still are not included in the list. The Pandora Papers are a strong argument to increase vigilance over the activity in such countries. That countries are helping to steal EU citizens money for a part of the loot. I hope that UK and USA help to stop crime and return citizens what is theirs money.
- profeatur 5y agoDo you live in Europe? The last thing we need is more regulation. I can almost guarantee that whatever law they pass is only going to make it harder for those of us actually trying to start up businesses here.
- WastingMyTime89 5y agoIt’s not an either/or situation. We both need more regulation and harmonisation regarding tax evasion and tax dodging both inside and outside the EU and less regulation when it comes to starting businesses.
- sbacic 5y agoNo we do not. Tax harmonization is being aggressively pushed by certain member states for their own benefit and to the detriment of other, less developed member states.
- WastingMyTime89 5y agoThat’s completely false. The EU budgets itself is extremely favorable to less developed member states even when these states should be excluded from the union like Hungary. The current tax issues favor countries which are already rich like Luxembourg and the Netherlands at the expense of countries which are actually producing values in Europe. It has nothing to do with the eastern countries.
- temptemptemp111 5y ago"Money laundering" = anyone who keeps money away from the top money launderers.
- holografix 5y agoGuess the euros are running out of legislation to recoup tax via fines.
- libertine 5y agoI don't get why a lot of people are claiming that the "EU is butthurt", it's such a narrow minded stance. What would be the benefit for the EU to enter this shit race with the UK and the US? Only companies would be the ones benefiting from this with yet another hub with lower taxes. It's a literal shit race if everyone starts playing it, and only works if few play it. So good for the EU parliament to publicly denounce this and exposing the shit game the UK and US are playing. Basically they're both being cheats in the global economy - and you can't be both a cheat and a role model, that's being a hypocrite. Are all the EU countries abiding by fair rules? No. But what will be the trend? To have more tax heavens in the EU or to start to purge them? All points to the second option.
- matthewmorgan 5y ago> Are all the EU countries abiding by fair rules? No. Thanks for quickly summarizing why nobody should take EU pronouncements on this seriously
- libertine 5y agoI don't think you understand how the EU works.
- Lionga 5y agoHint: It does not
- y4mi 5y agoit does work to some degree though, just look at the new internment camp for political refugees (the new Moria). fully financed by the EU to lock away these evil people behind barbed wire fences. feels good having your tax money used to keep family with their children under 24/7 surveillance (even inside of their "homes"!), doesnt it? and there isn't even anything people can really do about it. really lovely.
- TomSwirly 5y ago
- Neputys 5y agoThis doesn't mean a thing. Pure entropy. It's amazing how powerless EU Parliament really is AND how people don't get how powerless it really is.
- TacticalCoder 5y agoWhat shocks me way more than the rich individuals and family offices having setups allowing them to, legally, pay less taxes is the sheer amount of politicians caught with hidden assets. Assets that were very likely misappropriation of taxpayers money and proceeds from other criminal activities. That and assets from families linked to drug dealing and whatnots. For example one of the most prominent leftist french politicians, ex- director of the IMF I think, was caught the hand in the cookie jar with tens of millions stashed away, while years ago he was publicly saying that tax evasion should be fought. We're talking hundreds of politicians. It's estimated 3% to 5% of the world's GDP is linked to criminal activites: maybe we should the priorities right, and focus on politicians-thieves and drug dealers before hating on those among the rich who legally put their money where they think it's safer? (many in these leaks have done absolutely nothing wrong and it would be nice if everything was not conflated) Money laundering is illegal. Stealing tax payers money and hiding it is illegal. Selling drugs is illegal. Legally evading taxes is, in many cases, fully legal (tax evasion / tax avoidance: whatever you call it, nothing forces you to pay the most: if you find a legal way to pay less, more power to you as long as you're not a criminal).
- TomSwirly 5y ago> hating on those among the rich who legally put their money where they think it's safer? That's a highly deceptive way to characterize tax evasion.
- worrycue 5y agoI watch a documentary called “Spider’s Web: Britain’s Second Empire” which is about the UK’s tax havens - and talks a bit about the US too. Didn’t know how much of it to believe but I get the feeling quite a bit of it is probably true.
- jollybean 5y agoTax avoidance by Ireland and Lux is 100x the problem of British Virgin Islands. If the EU just literally taxed big corps with normal terms, it would make a big difference.
- esarbe 5y agoWhat confuses me every time a topic like this comes up... Why the heck are there so many people defending tax frauds? It's not as if we are talking about your mom&pops shop here; these are multinational corporations that leverage breakdowns in international tax laws, launder moneys from criminal activities and They are breaking the law in the worst case and are twisting it beyond recognition in the worst case, using technicalities to give themselves 'Get out of societal obligations" cards. These are anti-social behaviors by nonhuman entities (person hood for legal constructs; what an abomination!) that damage the cohesion and peace in our countries. And yet some people defend these practices, some almost praising these cheats' efforts as nobly defending ... freedom? What goes? Can anyone explain? I'm thoroughly befuddled.