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From page nine: Services and Other - Insurance In Q3, we rolled out our “Safety Score” functionality, which will also be used for our telematics insurance pro
by crancher 5y ago
From page nine:
Services and Other - Insurance
In Q3, we rolled out our “Safety Score” functionality, which will also be used for our telematics insurance product. We actively monitor braking, turning, tailgating (unsafe following), forward collision warnings and forced autopilot disengagements in order to predict the probability of a collision. This system will continue to be fine- tuned as we receive more data. We also launched our telematics insurance product in our first state – Texas – in early October. We believe our insurance premiums will be able to more accurately reflect chances of a collision than any other insurance product on the market. Additionally, we will proactively communicate to the user what driving adjustments need to be made to decrease probability of a collision.
- crancher 5y agoThe holy grail of insurance: each person’s individual risk behavior monitored by AI.
- missedthecue 5y agoProgressive patented this in 1998 https://patents.google.com/patent/US5797134A/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US5797134A/en
- t0mas88 5y agoThe worst nightmare of consumer privacy: A car that monitors your every move.
- gervwyk 5y agoMy wife activated this on her insurance. Got an email last week saying that she is in the top 5% of “worst drivers”. Which was both scary and funny at the same time. We investigated why they deduct so much points for her driving, and the majority of the points was conducted for her being on het phone while driving. Then we realized that we drive around with her car most often and she is on the the phone while I drive.. These models has it’s problems but they are getting better - it’s just so easy to make wrong assumptions from ML models which only include a subset of variables.
- xkcd-sucks 5y agoSo it is measured with a phone app and not e.g. an OBD dongle with built-in cell modem? Why not install the app on a second phone which always gets left at home?
- mensetmanusman 5y ago“Congrats you win worse driver in America award!” How do you inspire the lowest performers?
- malshe 5y agoComing up next, a fingerprint sensor on the steering wheel to determine who is driving!
- trhway 5y agoand a mental state, attentiveness, etc. sensor - "Your driving performance in the next hour is estimated to be 10% worst than your average, and will incur 20% insurance premium increase for that trip. Do you still wish to start the car? "
- malshe 5y agoMe: No, I wish to sit in the car and bang my head on the steering :(
- bitcurious 5y agoI think the new Genesis cars have this as a feature, on the start button. The upside is you don’t need to carry keys.
- crancher 5y agoWe're on the path where each of is monitored by (hopefully benevolent) AI from birth to death. Such a scenario is really the only way for humanity.com to continue scaling, as each of us has the potential to very negatively disrupt anything/everything.
- jandrese 5y agoIf this were accurately reflected in the rates I'd be interested, but past experience suggests that it's going to be more like "if you drive perfect you might get $5/month savings, but if you brake hard that one time your rate will shoot up by $50/month". You assume extra risk that the company won't screw you over for what is likely to be a very modest upside. There are lots of case studies of people who got massive unexpected bills because they were trying to save a few bucks. Especially since they will be able to assign the blame to the customer for their high rates. Never trust corporations more than you have to.
- pmorici 5y agoWhen FSD matures it won’t matter how good of a driver you are it will matter what percentage of time you let it drive you.
- missedthecue 5y agoHmm. Car insurance is one of the most competitive industries in the US. Lots of players, slim margins, commodity product, etc... I wonder how long a company could charge people $50 more for braking hard and not lose customers. I know if I saw a surprise like that, I'd be getting quotes immediately.
- zbrozek 5y agoThere's lots of places where tiny upsides come with huge downsides. And yet for some reason people still accept them! My partner's manager signed up for a summer energy program that could cut off her HVAC system in exchange for a super-paltry discount on her monthly electricity bill. She cursed her decisions a few hours in to the next heat wave.
- diebeforei485 5y agoI don't think they are all that competitive when it comes to insuring electric cars.
- missedthecue 5y ago
- notJim 5y agoTraditional insurance companies have been offering a version of this for a while now. Apparently the term of art is usage-based insurance. https://wallethub.com/edu/ci/usage-based-insurance/14118 https://wallethub.com/edu/ci/usage-based-insurance/14118
- gregable 5y agoThe issue with this is that in the limit it just makes the insurance premium exactly equal the payout + some margin. Some of the point of insurance is cost sharing of extreme events. It's perhaps a little better when we are talking about behaviors that are entirely under the driver's control, but gets potentially ugly if for example someone has slower reaction time due to genetics or health and thus gets priced out of insurance.
- leetcrew 5y ago> Some of the point of insurance is cost sharing of extreme events. I guess this borders on a philosophical point, but I don't agree. car insurance is not (or shouldn't be, imo) a payment plan for likely crashes. if, for whatever reason, a person's reaction times are so slow that they would be priced out of insurance entirely, they shouldn't be behind the wheel at all.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago>The issue with this is that in the limit it just makes the insurance premium exactly equal the payout + some margin. At which point there's no point in insurance, it's a glorified bond or escrow service depending on how you squint.
- TigeriusKirk 5y agoI'm very curious to see if tracking the actual driving data turns up any surprises in terms of safe behavior. What if say tailgaters turn out to be safer than average drivers? I don't expect that to happen, which is exactly why I'm curious to see if it does.
- TheCapn 5y agoI'd put a good wager that "speeders" may fall to that category. I find that I generally travel above the speed limit and feel far safer than I do when I set my cruise to the proper speed limit. Why? Because when I'm passing others I get to choose how long another vehicle is in my blind spot, or how often someone is trying to park themselves in my back seat. When I go the speed limit I always end up in a pack of cars all jockeying lanes with someone far too close to my rear bumper and a guy in front of me swaying up and down in his speed... I feel generally unsafe leaving control of my speed/position up to the other cars on the highway. * Very obviously, these are subjective takes and likely don't reflect reality. No vehicle accidents in 17 years makes me think I'm doing something right though
- bcrosby95 5y agoMy brother's motto is: if you're the fastest person on the road you don't have to worry about anyone behind you. Apparently he learned that driving boats in the Navy.
- ecpottinger 5y agoSorry, watch Canada's Worst Driver. Every time someone comes on and says they drive better by going fast they fail almost all the driving tests in braking, cornering, dodging sudden run-outs into the road and even just the simple drive better two cardboard boxes with two feet extra distance apart compared to the width of the car. Don't believe me? Try: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Canada+worse+driver https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Canada+worse+dr...
- TheCapn 5y ago
- kevingadd 5y agoIt's interesting that early user feedback indicated that if you wanted to max your Safety Score you actually had to drive unsafely in specific ways. For example, stopping correctly at red lights and stop signs would show up as braking, so gently running yellows/hollywood stops would produce a higher safety score.
- pokerhobo 5y agoPart of the safety score is based on g forces. So if you do a smooth stop by braking ahead of the stop, you’ll have less g forces. If you slam on your brakes, well, you’ll have a lower score due to higher g forces.
- Rygian 5y agoConsidering that the car also sees the stop signs and traffic lights, that would have been an early days bug more than any other thing.
- notJim 5y agoA yellow light is not a stop sign, you are allowed to drive through it if you can make it. And it is safer to do so than to slam on the brakes, which might cause the car behind you to hit you.
- recursive 5y agoin the USA, it's just the reverse. You must stop for a yellow (amber) light if it is safe to do so.
- djcapelis 5y agoNope. States vary somewhat in their laws, but in my home state of California, the laws state only: California Vehicle Code (CVC) Section 21452(a): "A driver facing a steady circular yellow or yellow arrow signal is, by that signal, warned that the related green movement is ending or that a red indication will be shown immediately thereafter." CVC Section 21454: "When lane use control signals are placed over individual lanes, those signals shall indicate and apply to drivers of vehicles as follows: (a) Green indication: A driver may travel in any lane over which a green signal is shown. (b) Steady yellow indication: A driver is thereby warned that a lane control change is being made. (c) Steady red indication: A driver shall not enter or travel in any lane over which a red signal is shown. (d) Flashing yellow indication: A driver may use the lane only for the purpose of making a left turn to or from the highway." A yellow light on a traffic control signal in the state of California only indicates an upcoming transition to a red light, which a driver must stop for. There is no requirement that a driver must stop for a yellow.
- purple_ferret 5y agoSeems like the most important thing you can do in regards to this is put a little camera on the dash and monitor for sleepy behavior. I would bet this trumps all of that junk wrt crashes by a significant margin.
- simonebrunozzi 5y agoOr "texting while driving" behavior.
- colordrops 5y agoThere is a camera pointed at the driver, at least in the model 3, near the rear view mirror. I believe it was indeed installed to monitor the driver.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoBoth the 3 and the Y, and it actively monitors your attention while Autopilot is engaged starting with Tesla software rev 2021.36. Looking down at a phone, for example, causes Autopilot to alert, and three alerts in succession reduces your safety score and kicks you out of Autopilot [1] until you go through a Drive->Park->Drive shift cycle. [1] https://www.tesla.com/support/safety-score https://www.tesla.com/support/safety-score (Control-F "Forced autopilot Disengagement")
- oh_sigh 5y agoOh goodie. I have a Model Y and it literally always goes insane with forward collision warnings in the parking lot for my local grocery store. I guess I'll have to pay more in insurance eventually because tesla thinks I am going to run into a parked car off to the side of me while doing 7 mph.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoWhile Tesla Insurance has potential, I'd don't recommend it at this time.
- mhandley 5y agoThis could backfire on Tesla. If Tesla have better data than every other insurance company, then they'll be cheaper for low-risk drivers. But now other insurance companies know the only drivers that will not use Tesla insurance are high risk, so Teslas become harder to insure with all other insurance companies for a large fraction of drivers (and you don't know in advance if that's you), which in turn makes them less desirable to buy in the first place.
- nnf 5y ago> But now other insurance companies know the only drivers that will not use Tesla insurance are high risk Not necessarily. I'd pay more for car insurance to avoid being tracked this way, but that doesn't make me higher risk. Or maybe I just want to keep my home and auto insurance bundled so I can save money on both.
- gpt5 5y agoThe fact that there exist other reason to use a 3P insurance company doesn't really matter. At the end of the day, if the existence of a Tesla insurance removes a portion (not all) of low risk drivers from the insurance market, the remaining drivers would be higher risk. The insurance company doesn't care about the mechanism that causes it, at the end of the day the collision rate will stabilize into a new higher rate, together with the associated insurance rate.
- seanmcdirmid 5y agoInsurance companies are already over pricing Tesla coverage, which is why Tesla is bothering to get into this market at all. The end effect here might just be the rate they are offering now becoming justified as Tesla plucks all the lower risk fruit away from them.
- sangnoir 5y ago> I'd pay more for car insurance to avoid being tracked this way, but that doesn't make me higher risk. Can you even opt-out of being tracked by Tesla? Even if you're not buying their insurance, I'm sure their EULA will grant them access to your data.