5 ms·

> Beyond that, it's a little silly to compare a desktop (presumably many times larger, ~500+W power supply, cooling system, etc) with a Mac mini (tiny, laptop c

by shados 5y ago

> Beyond that, it's a little silly to compare a desktop (presumably many times larger, ~500+W power supply, cooling system, etc) with a Mac mini (tiny, laptop chip, no fans, etc). You're totally right, but I see a lot of folks around me making absolutely bonker claims on these M1 devices. If I believed everything I'm told, I'd be expecting them to run complex After Effect rendering at 10000 frames per second.

rbanffy 5y ago
If Geekbench scores are an indication, it is well into the HEDT league [1]. Some results of previous-gen servers are equally surprising, such as this 2-way 2x64-core EPYC Rome setup [2]. 1- https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/10508517?baseline=10496766 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/10508517?baseli... 2- https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/9997439?baseline=10496766 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/9997439?baselin...
matwood 5y ago
> You're totally right, but I see a lot of folks around me making absolutely bonker claims on these M1 devices. I bought an M1 MBA to replace a 2017 (might have been 2018 - I forget now) top specced Intel MBP and it cut the time to run my large Java test suite in half. Of course those are generations/years apart in technology, but the MBA doesn't have fans, barely gets warm, the battery lasts days, and it's the low end of the first generation M1. I'll fully admit that there might be other systems out there that can do exactly that in the same fan less, portable package that I'm unaware of.
BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
> You're totally right, but I see a lot of folks around me making absolutely bonker claims on these M1 devices. What "but"? The claims are less bonkers with a perspective that acknowledges the significance of those physical differences. Without the case, would the full internals (motherboard/CPU/GPU/PSU/ram/heatsinks/storage) of your desktop fit in your pants pockets? Because the M1 Mac Mini's fit in mine. How much fan noise does your desktop produce? How much electricity does it consume? M1s are fast compared to almost everything, but they're bonkers fast compared to anything getting even remotely close to 20 hours on a battery at 3 lbs weight.
- shados 5y ago
  I get the point, but I was answering the question of "why do people compare this with desktops". Because people compare them with everything. You're totally right that they are impressive in their own right, especially in their category. I'm not arguing that. Also: > How much fan noise does your desktop produce Basically none since modern high end air cooling is essentially silent. Water cooler pumps are noisier though.
amelius 5y ago
> You're totally right, but I see a lot of folks around me making absolutely bonker claims on these M1 devices. Fake news happens on HN too. Apparently. Sadly. Hopefully it's mostly limited to discussions about Apple.
alwillis 5y ago
I think that’s disingenuous. I haven’t seen any claims that haven’t been backed up by benchmarks and specific use cases. What most people keep missing is the M1 jumped out way ahead on performance per watt on their first attempt at making their own processor. I’ve seen the M1 Mac for less than $700. In that price range, there’s not much competition when it comes to computation, GPU performance, etc. and comes fairly close to much higher priced x86 Macs and PCs. That’s why people are excited about the M1. You generally can’t edit 4k (and 8k) video in real-time on a machine in this price range—and what people happily paid 5x that price to get this level of performance just a few years ago.
- LordDragonfang 5y ago
  > on their first attempt at making their own processor. They've been making their own chips for over a decade now. The M1 is not fundamentally different from the A series, and in fact seems to serve as a drop in replacement (in the iPad Pro line). That being said, this is the first time they're confident enough in their own processor to rewrite their whole desktop software stack and market what are traditionally mobile-exclusive cpus as being superior to x86 in the personal computing space. And in all honesty, for good reason.
  - alwillis 5y ago
    That being said, this is the first time they're confident enough in their own processor to rewrite their whole desktop Pretty sure it wasn’t a matter of confidence, as Apple has been signaling making their own desktop processor for a while. There was an iPad launch a few years ago where Phil Schiller said that particular A-series processor had desktop-class performance like three different times. Also, it’s the third time they’ve done a processor transition: 68K to PowerPC to Intel to ARM. There’s no doubt they’ve known for years they could do this if needed. It wasn’t a rewrite; it was mostly a recompile, especially after Apple dropped support for 32-bit apps. iOS and macOS share many frameworks and APIs and that’s been running on ARM since 2007. When Apple announced the switch to Intel in 2006, Jobs revealed they had Mac OS X running on Intel in the lab for years; there’s no doubt they’ve had macOS running on ARM for years as well. Likely getting the logistics of software and hardware development to align at the scale Apple operates at is what took the time; not the lack of confidence. This move was probably inevitable but it certainly didn’t help that Intel repeatedly missed deadlines and performance goals.

by shados 5y ago

rbanffy 5y ago

If Geekbench scores are an indication, it is well into the HEDT league [1]. Some results of previous-gen servers are equally surprising, such as this 2-way 2x64-core EPYC Rome setup [2]. 1- https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/10508517?baseline=10496766 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/10508517?baseli... 2- https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/9997439?baseline=10496766 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/9997439?baselin...

matwood 5y ago

> You're totally right, but I see a lot of folks around me making absolutely bonker claims on these M1 devices. I bought an M1 MBA to replace a 2017 (might have been 2018 - I forget now) top specced Intel MBP and it cut the time to run my large Java test suite in half. Of course those are generations/years apart in technology, but the MBA doesn't have fans, barely gets warm, the battery lasts days, and it's the low end of the first generation M1. I'll fully admit that there might be other systems out there that can do exactly that in the same fan less, portable package that I'm unaware of.

BugsJustFindMe 5y ago

> You're totally right, but I see a lot of folks around me making absolutely bonker claims on these M1 devices. What "but"? The claims are less bonkers with a perspective that acknowledges the significance of those physical differences. Without the case, would the full internals (motherboard/CPU/GPU/PSU/ram/heatsinks/storage) of your desktop fit in your pants pockets? Because the M1 Mac Mini's fit in mine. How much fan noise does your desktop produce? How much electricity does it consume? M1s are fast compared to almost everything, but they're bonkers fast compared to anything getting even remotely close to 20 hours on a battery at 3 lbs weight.

shados 5y ago
I get the point, but I was answering the question of "why do people compare this with desktops". Because people compare them with everything. You're totally right that they are impressive in their own right, especially in their category. I'm not arguing that. Also: > How much fan noise does your desktop produce Basically none since modern high end air cooling is essentially silent. Water cooler pumps are noisier though.

amelius 5y ago

> You're totally right, but I see a lot of folks around me making absolutely bonker claims on these M1 devices. Fake news happens on HN too. Apparently. Sadly. Hopefully it's mostly limited to discussions about Apple.

alwillis 5y ago

I think that’s disingenuous. I haven’t seen any claims that haven’t been backed up by benchmarks and specific use cases. What most people keep missing is the M1 jumped out way ahead on performance per watt on their first attempt at making their own processor. I’ve seen the M1 Mac for less than $700. In that price range, there’s not much competition when it comes to computation, GPU performance, etc. and comes fairly close to much higher priced x86 Macs and PCs. That’s why people are excited about the M1. You generally can’t edit 4k (and 8k) video in real-time on a machine in this price range—and what people happily paid 5x that price to get this level of performance just a few years ago.

LordDragonfang 5y ago
> on their first attempt at making their own processor. They've been making their own chips for over a decade now. The M1 is not fundamentally different from the A series, and in fact seems to serve as a drop in replacement (in the iPad Pro line). That being said, this is the first time they're confident enough in their own processor to rewrite their whole desktop software stack and market what are traditionally mobile-exclusive cpus as being superior to x86 in the personal computing space. And in all honesty, for good reason.
- alwillis 5y ago
  That being said, this is the first time they're confident enough in their own processor to rewrite their whole desktop Pretty sure it wasn’t a matter of confidence, as Apple has been signaling making their own desktop processor for a while. There was an iPad launch a few years ago where Phil Schiller said that particular A-series processor had desktop-class performance like three different times. Also, it’s the third time they’ve done a processor transition: 68K to PowerPC to Intel to ARM. There’s no doubt they’ve known for years they could do this if needed. It wasn’t a rewrite; it was mostly a recompile, especially after Apple dropped support for 32-bit apps. iOS and macOS share many frameworks and APIs and that’s been running on ARM since 2007. When Apple announced the switch to Intel in 2006, Jobs revealed they had Mac OS X running on Intel in the lab for years; there’s no doubt they’ve had macOS running on ARM for years as well. Likely getting the logistics of software and hardware development to align at the scale Apple operates at is what took the time; not the lack of confidence. This move was probably inevitable but it certainly didn’t help that Intel repeatedly missed deadlines and performance goals.