18 ms·

Android Apps on Windows 11

137 points by MikusR 5y ago

ugh123 5y ago
Most interesting thing about this is the use of Amazon Appstore. It's like Microsoft is acquiescing by not trying to build yet another app store (even an Android store) and lure developers and support costs along the way. MS is probably aware that Amazon could see this as a backdoor into Windows software licensing too.
- WorldMaker 5y ago
  I think that it has more do with Microsoft not wanting to build their own replacement for "Google Play Services" just yet. Amazon has a decade or so investment in their alternative to "Google Play Services".
nmridul 5y ago
In the long term, will my bank force me to install app and stop supporting browser ? Right now desktop (and somtimes legal requirements) is one major reason for them supporting the browser.
paxys 5y ago
This is a good tech demo but feature wise pretty useless. Windows 8 and the UWP mess already proved that people don't want "apps" on their PCs. I can't think of a single Android app that I would use on my desktop or laptop right now.
- poglet 5y ago
  I installed scrcpy https://github.com/Genymobile/scrcpy https://github.com/Genymobile/scrcpy which lets you remotely connect to your Android device - similar to VNC. It was handy being able to use certain apps that don't exist properly on computers like Instagram, SMS, some other messaging apps. Copy and past works and you can install apk files by dropping them into the window. I found it quiet interesting.
- nikolay 5y ago
  Many apps don't have websites and only have mobile apps! It gives another incentive to developers to not release iOS-first apps - they will get simultaneously on Windows and Android instead of the now niche iOS market!
- stinos 5y ago
  I can't think of a single Android app that I would use on my desktop or laptop right now Sure, but other people can have different needs. I installed Bluestacks just so that I could run my bank's Android app on my desktop: unlike the bank's website, to pay with the app I only have to enter a 5-digit code. But having the app run on a phone is error prone and slow and a lot of manual typing because all its input (account numbers, amounts, ...) come from other documents/pdfs/websites/emails and I can navigate all of that much faster on a desktop. So: the app on the desktop is, for me, the fastest and most convenient banking way I found so far.
- wiseowise 5y ago
  And you have a source to something? Or just a usual Wundowz 8 bed?
- NullPrefix 5y ago
  Those flashlight apps that siphoned all your contacts were decent though.
syspec 5y ago
Well I'll be dammed. A Microsoft announcement about running Google Android OS apps, that you download via Amazon's App Store on Windows. That's wild
DeathArrow 5y ago
I wonder which kind of Android apps people would die to run on the Desktop? I didn't come yet across an app I would want to run on my computer.
- anaganisk 5y ago
  Mobile exclusive games, apps and messengers. Yes mobile gaming is a thing and some people prefer playing them on a PC for competitive advantage. Try googling the number of tutorials based on how to run X app on bluestacks.
ABoredBirb 5y ago
So... how about Windows (11?) Phone, round two?
wyldfire 5y ago
> To enable these types of experiences, we are introducing a new component on top of Windows 11 called Windows Subsystem for Android™, which powers the Amazon Appstore and its catalog. The Subsystem includes the Linux kernel and the Android OS based on the Android Open Source Project (AOSP) version 11. > The Windows Subsystem for Android is available across the full spectrum of Windows processor types (AMD, Intel, and Qualcomm). So, on your Windows-ARM laptop, you can run android apps now. Being able to run android apps was one appealing feature of chromebooks IMO. > We are partnering with Amazon in engaging the developer community, and we will have more details to share about early developer programs to publish Android apps to the Amazon Appstore I had assumed that the Amazon App store had withered on the vine, but I guess their Kindles have kept it alive.
- jamesfinlayson 5y ago
  I didn't realise there was an Amazon App Store until I read this thread today.
- kyriakos 5y ago
  This partnership is a win win between Microsoft and Amazon. Users should be able to install fdroid too
  - Maxburn 5y ago
    I got the impression developers shunned Amazon app store because it's a bad experience for them. Quite often am I seeing apps there that are many versions behind the play store.
    - babypuncher 5y ago
      I always assumed it was just because nobody uses the Amazon app store. From a consumer perspective, the Amazon app store has no real reason to exist. It's just another place to download the same apps that are already in the Play Store, only with the extra hassle of needing to sideload it and set up a separate account from the one you already use for most other things on your phone. If Amazon is actively making the app submission process worse for developers, then that is a colossal failure on Amazon's part to understand their market position. Developers are not the ones who need Amazon in this relationship.
kyriakos 5y ago
> You can see notifications from Android apps notifications in the Action Center or share your clipboard between a Windows app and an Android app. This is a very interesting feature. Integrated notifications means you can run any android messenger and keep it minimised.
- criddell 5y ago
  That sounds like it would be a pretty heavyweight solution to a lightweight problem.
  - Maxburn 5y ago
    You mean the windows part right? /s
- anaganisk 5y ago
  So like run a VM on HyperV with another OS just to use WhatsApp? How much spare ram and cores does your PC have?
  - smileybarry 5y ago
    Android can run on <1GB RAM devices, and I'm willing to bet WSL's port runs a lot less background services. Couple that with Hyper-V VMs being able to release memory back to the host and it probably won't be too bad. (Maybe even lighter than some Electron apps)
    - anaganisk 5y ago
      Are you comparing a wrapper around a native app(chromium) to an app running on an OS emulated on a VM, with non-physical connection to a physical drive? I guess the drive bandwidth itself would punish an app enough. Random disk reads and writes are no where near native performance. Android over vm is much worse than electron, for wide usage.
      - 5y ago
open-paren 5y ago
I have a suspicion that they went with the Amazon App Store because it removes the dependency on Google Play Services. Is that just me?
- bilal4hmed 5y ago
  I would say Microsoft needed an Android store and Amazon wanted another large customer base for theirs. I bet Google had no interest in obliging for either of them
  - Mindwipe 5y ago
    And Amazon has a lot of versions of popular apps with their requirements for Google Play Services patched out as it doesn't appear on FireOS (without a bunch of work by the user).
- babypuncher 5y ago
  Google would never have wanted to put the Play Store on Windows because they actually compete with Windows. Access to the Play Store is a selling point of ChromeOS.
  - chiefalchemist 5y ago
    Google is still very much an ads company. Play? Chrome OS? Those are for Hoovering data. They are effectively loss leaders. Put another way, Google doesn't need to sell hardware, or software. It needs sources for data.
- paxys 5y ago
  Why would Google even want the Play Store to be available on Microsoft PCs? Being able to run Android apps is a key differentiator for Chromebooks.
- n8cpdx 5y ago
  That’s certainly part of the advantage, but I always wonder about the geography here. Amazon and Microsoft are both headquartered in Seattle (technically Redmond for MS, but it’s only a short drive). I imagine there’s a lot of cross pollination going on. They’ve also made noises in the past about integrating Alexa and Cortana, and it’s quite easy to turn a PC into an always-on Alexa device. Everything that makes sense about the Amazon collaboration would make more sense if it was a Google-Microsoft collaboration, except the geography and cross-pollination aspects. Surface Duo has play services and no one bats an eye. That’s just my unfalsifiable hypothesis, and I’d like to hear other takes.
criddell 5y ago
I think Microsoft cares more about Android than Google does. They should work out a deal where Microsoft takes over Android.
- treesknees 5y ago
  What about this makes you think that? Microsoft cares about getting Android _users_, I don't think they care that much about the Android OS beyond their rather poor implementation on the Surface Duo.
  - criddell 5y ago
    Microsoft at least appears to be interested in Android. To me it feels like Google has lost interest in the product.
    - treesknees 5y ago
      I'm asking what makes you feel that way? Google is actively releasing new Android versions (Android 12 announced yesterday) full of new features. In what way does that make you feel that Google has lost interest in Android?
- DeathArrow 5y ago
  MS can do their own Android. And it wouldn't even be a terribly stupid ideea. They already sell laptops, so why not phones?
  - madeofpalk 5y ago
    Microsoft already sells an Android "phone" https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-duo https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-duo
    - geogra4 5y ago
      Surprised with this they didn't do like Amazon and make a ms version of android
vorpalhex 5y ago
Has anyone tried sideloading android apps yet? I assume you'd need MicroG for anything Google dependent.
- bilal4hmed 5y ago
  I saw a tweet go by that ADB is packaged in, so it should be possible to sideload
  - Psychotherapist 5y ago
    I just tried it with sideloading an instagram apk (since I don't live in the USA and don't have an USA Amazon Account for the Store) and it works perfectly fine. Just turn on developer mode and use adb to connect & sideload
- fleaaaa 5y ago
  It is indeed possible, I tried a few and it indeed works but pretty unstable so far.
- zorgmonkey 5y ago
  You can do it via adb, the details are in the developer documentation https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/android/wsa/#enable-developer-mode-in-windows-settings https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/android/wsa/#enable...
gavin_gee 5y ago
(caveat i worked at MS for years but now don't) One of Microsoft's greatest strengths on show here. Embrace and extend. They made a mess of trying to build an app business with windows RT, Windows 8, windows 10. They can't get into the apple appstore ecosystem so they pivot to embracing the Android ecosystem to have an app catalog on windows. (Ironically what google did with Android was the play that Microsoft should have done with windows phone - classic OEM play which they had done successfully for years before)
- ohazi 5y ago
  > One of Microsoft's greatest strengths on show here. Embrace and extend. Why would Android developers go along with anything Microsoft tries to "extend" Android with when Google will just go "lol, no"? This seems more like a desperate grasp than "embrace/extend/extinguish."
- paxys 5y ago
  The third part of that strategy is "extinguish", which cannot happen considering Google controls the Android ecosystem.
- SahAssar 5y ago
  The Windows Android layer can only install from the amazon store and does not include any google play stuff, right? Is the amazon android app ecosystem that much better than the current windows store?
  - int_19h 5y ago
    The current Windows Store doesn't have many good non-desktop apps. Even just getting a properly working Kindle app would be a pretty big deal.
  - wvenable 5y ago
    To answer your second question, very likely. Microsoft would have zero luck populating their own Android store from scratch. It's a win-win for both companies as they're playing second fiddle to the Google Play Store and maybe even the Samsung store. Attracting developers to submit apps requires a large market.
kipchak 5y ago
I wonder if Bluestacks will stick around as an alternative or if this will be the beginning of the end for it.
- unnouinceput 5y ago
  I gave up on Bluestacks years ago. Was too slow to start/load, had some graphic issues with some apps, overall a mediocre experience. Nowadays I use Memu, it's fast and way more flexible than Bluestacks ever was.
  - kevingadd 5y ago
    For me the biggest problem with Bluestacks is that apps crash frequently and at random on both 4 and 5. It's really baffling that it manages to be so low-quality compared to its competition when they all seem to be using Virtualbox at their core.
RGamma 5y ago
Oh boy, soon I might be able play my favorite Android trash games [1] natively on the PC! [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=JT79TVpF1ds&list=PLlc94szfcNDHtzl6hX2PVMJtRBDAT4jWJ&index=6 https://youtube.com/watch?v=JT79TVpF1ds&list=PLlc94szfcNDHtz...
alexmcc81 5y ago
Windows is using Amazons Android store? That raises some uncomfortable questions about privacy: > Regardless of whether you choose to apply Amazon DRM, Amazon wraps your app with code that enables the app to communicate with the Amazon Appstore client to collect analytics, evaluate and enforce program policies, and share aggregated information with you. Your app will always communicate with the Amazon Appstore client when it starts, even if you choose not to apply DRM. https://www.developer.amazon.com/docs/app-submission/understanding-submission.html#about_drm https://www.developer.amazon.com/docs/app-submission/underst...
- nyanpasu64 5y ago
  > When your app starts on a Fire device, I don't know if the telemetry applies to all apps on the Amazon store, or only apps installed on Fire devices. If the former, I would feel very uneasy about installing Amazon store apps on Windows.
gjsman-1000 5y ago
In classic Microsoft scattershot leadership, the preview is only available to Beta channel members, but not Dev channel members. Typically, new features would go Dev > Beta > RC > Final. This is going Beta > Dev > RC > release. Surprise - Dev channel members (who were there because they wanted Android apps as soon as possible) are pissed. It also doesn't help that Microsoft removed the ability to switch to the Beta channel from the Dev channel a few months ago without notice.
- fleaaaa 5y ago
  Probably something being in conflict with WSA in dev channel is the problem atm. This is first time something is released on beta channel first afaik.
  - sylens 5y ago
    If this is the case, some communication about it would probably go a long way
    - fleaaaa 5y ago
      I'm pretty sure this isn't a sole issue in MS..
- MikusR 5y ago
  Dev channel is for what will become Windows 12.
  - anaganisk 5y ago
    Ah great, they can use the iOS emulator there.
symlinkk 5y ago
What do people use features like this for?
- LuisMondragon 5y ago
  I translate games and use Android emulators on Windows to test games. I think I could use the Android subsystem, I would give it a try.
- unicornporn 5y ago
  Was just about to ask the same question. I can't come up with a single Android app I'd like to run on desktop. Is it just an app development thing?
  - com2kid 5y ago
    Plenty of board games have android only apps that let you play multiplayer, but no web or windows app. So that is one use case! They even tend to support tablet layouts.
  - lostgame 5y ago
    Instagram and Snapchat want to say hi. Even stuff like TextPlus that lacks desktop clients. I can think of quite a few apps I'd immediately grab.
  - cturtle 5y ago
    Maybe Venmo since there is no desktop/web client. It frustrates me that Venmo has become so popular in my circles when it’s smartphone-only. I have a smartphone so I’ll keep using it there, but I could imagine some might appreciate the option to run apps like Venmo on a PC.
    - thekyle 5y ago
      The Venmo website allows you to send and receive money just like the app.
      - 5y ago
doublerebel 5y ago
Requires use of Hyper-V... does this mean they will bring Hyper-V to Home edition? Seems like many users who would run Android apps are likely to crossover with the group of users who are not going to upgrade their Windows license to Pro or better. Windows Subsystem for Android™... runs in a Hyper-V Virtual Machine, like the Windows Subsystem for Linux.
- vadfa 5y ago
  They can bring Hyper-V to Home and only let you use it to run Android apps.
- madeofpalk 5y ago
  WSL, with Hyper-V, is available in Windows Home. > The newest version of WSL uses Hyper-V architecture to enable its virtualization. This architecture will be available in the 'Virtual Machine Platform' optional component. This optional component will be available on all SKUs. You can expect to see more details about this experience soon as we get closer to the WSL 2 release. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/faq https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/faq
- xeromal 5y ago
  Interestingly, I don't see an entry for it in hyper-v
  - zamadatix 5y ago
    This and WSL use "Virtual Machine Platform" which is a bit like WebView2 but for virtualization.
marcodiego 5y ago
Now that they have WSL2 it would be much better to just contribute to waydroid: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28616985 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28616985
- nsonha 5y ago
  what does WSL 2 have anything to do with it? Most people wouldn't run waydroid on wsl, that's 2 levers of abstraction.
encryptluks2 5y ago
> Windows is the most open platform on the planet for creators. Gaslighting 101
- KoftaBob 5y ago
  That's not what gaslighting is.
- FileSorter 5y ago
  That is an objectively true statement.
  - Karunamon 5y ago
    Only in a world without Linux distros. Something you have to pay money for, agree to a bunch of dubious legalese, and cede control over how your device operates is pretty much the opposite of "open".
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
nikanj 5y ago
"Mobile games: Play some of the most popular mobile games like Lords Mobile, June’s Journey, Coin Master, and more." I'm reasonably certain those are not the most popular mobile games right now.
- alexdumitru 5y ago
  They are some of the worst games for sure. Pay to win and the "whales" spend tens of thousands to make sure they do.
- kumarvvr 5y ago
  Mobile games are meant for use with hands and gestures. Not sure how a mouse would be fun with that.
  - nikolay 5y ago
    Windows is not macOS - it supports touchscreens and most Windows notebooks have touchscreens!
    - kumarvvr 5y ago
      Personally I don't know a lot of people who would like to touch their Laptop screen. Its just not convenient. I am saying that as someone who got excited by the thought and actually bought a Dell touchscreen laptop. In laptop mode, its just not worth it.
      - Osiris 5y ago
        My wife and kids touch their screens all the time. I often reach over my wife's shoulder and tap a button or something on the screen rather than reaching for the trackpad. It may not be that useful for your particular use case but that doesn't mean it's not useful for others.
        kumarvvr 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
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mdasen 5y ago
Is this a good move for Microsoft? It feels like what IBM tried with OS/2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2#Windows_3.x_compatibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2#Windows_3.x_compatibility IBM created a Windows compatibility layer. However, that meant that developers saw that they could write their programs once for Windows and OS/2 users would be able to use the programs. The reverse wouldn't be true. So there was little incentive to create native apps for OS/2 compared to Windows. https://www.howtogeek.com/688970/what-was-ibms-os2-and-why-did-it-matter/ https://www.howtogeek.com/688970/what-was-ibms-os2-and-why-d... > Also, OS/2 had a chicken-and-egg problem. Its best selling point was its compatibility with MS-DOS and Windows applications. However, this meant few developers took the time to write OS/2-native apps. So, why run OS/2 at all? Do developers start believing that an Android app is enough to also court the Windows market? Android apps, even if they run "well" on Windows, won't be as well adapted to the Windows UX as apps intended for Windows. This isn't the case of Microsoft saying "you can now develop for Windows using the Android APIs." It's more, "you can now run Android apps with their phone UX (as submitted to a phone app store) on Windows." I'm not saying that the feature won't be popular. However, it is potentially a weak strategy. Let's say that Microsoft makes Android apps on laptops/desktops popular. That makes it easier to market ChromeOS/Android-based laptops/desktops. If people see their apps as coming from Android and not Windows, why bother with the Windows license?
- mixmastamyk 5y ago
  Windows is firmly entrenched, OS/2 never was.
- jitl 5y ago
  I don’t think this is much of a difference for me. I have Android, iOS, and Electron/Web developers. Right now we target Windows with Electron, but could use Android in the future. Either way I’m not really building a Windows desktop app that would give Microsoft a moat. I think they realize that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Osiris 5y ago
  Nitpick: it wasn't a compatibility layer. It was actually Windows 3.1 running in DOS. There was no emulation.
MikusR 5y ago
This is based on AOSP and not Closed source Google Android. So wait for Google to cancel Microsofts licence to make Android devices.
- intack-choi 5y ago
  They can't
  - MikusR 5y ago
    Microsoft makes Surface Duo. A Google certified Android device. Google forbids companies that make Android devices to make devices on Android forks.
    - smileybarry 5y ago
      I guess the technicality they can use here is "we're not shipping a device based on AOSP, but a software feature based on AOSP". Even Surface hardware is technically a Windows-based device with AOSP features.
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
  That would be fantastic; if anyone can call Google out on that anticompetitive nonsense MS is a good bet.

137 points by MikusR 5y ago

Most interesting thing about this is the use of Amazon Appstore. It's like Microsoft is acquiescing by not trying to build yet another app store (even an Android store) and lure developers and support costs along the way. MS is probably aware that Amazon could see this as a backdoor into Windows software licensing too.

WorldMaker 5y ago
I think that it has more do with Microsoft not wanting to build their own replacement for "Google Play Services" just yet. Amazon has a decade or so investment in their alternative to "Google Play Services".

nmridul 5y ago

In the long term, will my bank force me to install app and stop supporting browser ? Right now desktop (and somtimes legal requirements) is one major reason for them supporting the browser.

paxys 5y ago

This is a good tech demo but feature wise pretty useless. Windows 8 and the UWP mess already proved that people don't want "apps" on their PCs. I can't think of a single Android app that I would use on my desktop or laptop right now.

poglet 5y ago
I installed scrcpy https://github.com/Genymobile/scrcpy https://github.com/Genymobile/scrcpy which lets you remotely connect to your Android device - similar to VNC. It was handy being able to use certain apps that don't exist properly on computers like Instagram, SMS, some other messaging apps. Copy and past works and you can install apk files by dropping them into the window. I found it quiet interesting.
nikolay 5y ago
Many apps don't have websites and only have mobile apps! It gives another incentive to developers to not release iOS-first apps - they will get simultaneously on Windows and Android instead of the now niche iOS market!
stinos 5y ago
I can't think of a single Android app that I would use on my desktop or laptop right now Sure, but other people can have different needs. I installed Bluestacks just so that I could run my bank's Android app on my desktop: unlike the bank's website, to pay with the app I only have to enter a 5-digit code. But having the app run on a phone is error prone and slow and a lot of manual typing because all its input (account numbers, amounts, ...) come from other documents/pdfs/websites/emails and I can navigate all of that much faster on a desktop. So: the app on the desktop is, for me, the fastest and most convenient banking way I found so far.
wiseowise 5y ago
And you have a source to something? Or just a usual Wundowz 8 bed?
NullPrefix 5y ago
Those flashlight apps that siphoned all your contacts were decent though.

syspec 5y ago

Well I'll be dammed. A Microsoft announcement about running Google Android OS apps, that you download via Amazon's App Store on Windows. That's wild

DeathArrow 5y ago

I wonder which kind of Android apps people would die to run on the Desktop? I didn't come yet across an app I would want to run on my computer.

anaganisk 5y ago
Mobile exclusive games, apps and messengers. Yes mobile gaming is a thing and some people prefer playing them on a PC for competitive advantage. Try googling the number of tutorials based on how to run X app on bluestacks.

ABoredBirb 5y ago

So... how about Windows (11?) Phone, round two?

wyldfire 5y ago

> To enable these types of experiences, we are introducing a new component on top of Windows 11 called Windows Subsystem for Android™, which powers the Amazon Appstore and its catalog. The Subsystem includes the Linux kernel and the Android OS based on the Android Open Source Project (AOSP) version 11. > The Windows Subsystem for Android is available across the full spectrum of Windows processor types (AMD, Intel, and Qualcomm). So, on your Windows-ARM laptop, you can run android apps now. Being able to run android apps was one appealing feature of chromebooks IMO. > We are partnering with Amazon in engaging the developer community, and we will have more details to share about early developer programs to publish Android apps to the Amazon Appstore I had assumed that the Amazon App store had withered on the vine, but I guess their Kindles have kept it alive.

jamesfinlayson 5y ago
I didn't realise there was an Amazon App Store until I read this thread today.
kyriakos 5y ago
This partnership is a win win between Microsoft and Amazon. Users should be able to install fdroid too
- Maxburn 5y ago
  I got the impression developers shunned Amazon app store because it's a bad experience for them. Quite often am I seeing apps there that are many versions behind the play store.
  - babypuncher 5y ago
    I always assumed it was just because nobody uses the Amazon app store. From a consumer perspective, the Amazon app store has no real reason to exist. It's just another place to download the same apps that are already in the Play Store, only with the extra hassle of needing to sideload it and set up a separate account from the one you already use for most other things on your phone. If Amazon is actively making the app submission process worse for developers, then that is a colossal failure on Amazon's part to understand their market position. Developers are not the ones who need Amazon in this relationship.

kyriakos 5y ago

> You can see notifications from Android apps notifications in the Action Center or share your clipboard between a Windows app and an Android app. This is a very interesting feature. Integrated notifications means you can run any android messenger and keep it minimised.

criddell 5y ago
That sounds like it would be a pretty heavyweight solution to a lightweight problem.
- Maxburn 5y ago
  You mean the windows part right? /s
anaganisk 5y ago
So like run a VM on HyperV with another OS just to use WhatsApp? How much spare ram and cores does your PC have?
- smileybarry 5y ago
  Android can run on <1GB RAM devices, and I'm willing to bet WSL's port runs a lot less background services. Couple that with Hyper-V VMs being able to release memory back to the host and it probably won't be too bad. (Maybe even lighter than some Electron apps)
  - anaganisk 5y ago
    Are you comparing a wrapper around a native app(chromium) to an app running on an OS emulated on a VM, with non-physical connection to a physical drive? I guess the drive bandwidth itself would punish an app enough. Random disk reads and writes are no where near native performance. Android over vm is much worse than electron, for wide usage.
    - 5y ago

open-paren 5y ago

I have a suspicion that they went with the Amazon App Store because it removes the dependency on Google Play Services. Is that just me?

bilal4hmed 5y ago
I would say Microsoft needed an Android store and Amazon wanted another large customer base for theirs. I bet Google had no interest in obliging for either of them
- Mindwipe 5y ago
  And Amazon has a lot of versions of popular apps with their requirements for Google Play Services patched out as it doesn't appear on FireOS (without a bunch of work by the user).
babypuncher 5y ago
Google would never have wanted to put the Play Store on Windows because they actually compete with Windows. Access to the Play Store is a selling point of ChromeOS.
- chiefalchemist 5y ago
  Google is still very much an ads company. Play? Chrome OS? Those are for Hoovering data. They are effectively loss leaders. Put another way, Google doesn't need to sell hardware, or software. It needs sources for data.
paxys 5y ago
Why would Google even want the Play Store to be available on Microsoft PCs? Being able to run Android apps is a key differentiator for Chromebooks.
n8cpdx 5y ago
That’s certainly part of the advantage, but I always wonder about the geography here. Amazon and Microsoft are both headquartered in Seattle (technically Redmond for MS, but it’s only a short drive). I imagine there’s a lot of cross pollination going on. They’ve also made noises in the past about integrating Alexa and Cortana, and it’s quite easy to turn a PC into an always-on Alexa device. Everything that makes sense about the Amazon collaboration would make more sense if it was a Google-Microsoft collaboration, except the geography and cross-pollination aspects. Surface Duo has play services and no one bats an eye. That’s just my unfalsifiable hypothesis, and I’d like to hear other takes.

criddell 5y ago

I think Microsoft cares more about Android than Google does. They should work out a deal where Microsoft takes over Android.

treesknees 5y ago
What about this makes you think that? Microsoft cares about getting Android _users_, I don't think they care that much about the Android OS beyond their rather poor implementation on the Surface Duo.
- criddell 5y ago
  Microsoft at least appears to be interested in Android. To me it feels like Google has lost interest in the product.
  - treesknees 5y ago
    I'm asking what makes you feel that way? Google is actively releasing new Android versions (Android 12 announced yesterday) full of new features. In what way does that make you feel that Google has lost interest in Android?
DeathArrow 5y ago
MS can do their own Android. And it wouldn't even be a terribly stupid ideea. They already sell laptops, so why not phones?
- madeofpalk 5y ago
  Microsoft already sells an Android "phone" https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-duo https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-duo
  - geogra4 5y ago
    Surprised with this they didn't do like Amazon and make a ms version of android

vorpalhex 5y ago

Has anyone tried sideloading android apps yet? I assume you'd need MicroG for anything Google dependent.

bilal4hmed 5y ago
I saw a tweet go by that ADB is packaged in, so it should be possible to sideload
- Psychotherapist 5y ago
  I just tried it with sideloading an instagram apk (since I don't live in the USA and don't have an USA Amazon Account for the Store) and it works perfectly fine. Just turn on developer mode and use adb to connect & sideload
fleaaaa 5y ago
It is indeed possible, I tried a few and it indeed works but pretty unstable so far.
zorgmonkey 5y ago
You can do it via adb, the details are in the developer documentation https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/android/wsa/#enable-developer-mode-in-windows-settings https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/android/wsa/#enable...

gavin_gee 5y ago

(caveat i worked at MS for years but now don't) One of Microsoft's greatest strengths on show here. Embrace and extend. They made a mess of trying to build an app business with windows RT, Windows 8, windows 10. They can't get into the apple appstore ecosystem so they pivot to embracing the Android ecosystem to have an app catalog on windows. (Ironically what google did with Android was the play that Microsoft should have done with windows phone - classic OEM play which they had done successfully for years before)

ohazi 5y ago
> One of Microsoft's greatest strengths on show here. Embrace and extend. Why would Android developers go along with anything Microsoft tries to "extend" Android with when Google will just go "lol, no"? This seems more like a desperate grasp than "embrace/extend/extinguish."
paxys 5y ago
The third part of that strategy is "extinguish", which cannot happen considering Google controls the Android ecosystem.
SahAssar 5y ago
The Windows Android layer can only install from the amazon store and does not include any google play stuff, right? Is the amazon android app ecosystem that much better than the current windows store?
- int_19h 5y ago
  The current Windows Store doesn't have many good non-desktop apps. Even just getting a properly working Kindle app would be a pretty big deal.
- wvenable 5y ago
  To answer your second question, very likely. Microsoft would have zero luck populating their own Android store from scratch. It's a win-win for both companies as they're playing second fiddle to the Google Play Store and maybe even the Samsung store. Attracting developers to submit apps requires a large market.

kipchak 5y ago

I wonder if Bluestacks will stick around as an alternative or if this will be the beginning of the end for it.

unnouinceput 5y ago
I gave up on Bluestacks years ago. Was too slow to start/load, had some graphic issues with some apps, overall a mediocre experience. Nowadays I use Memu, it's fast and way more flexible than Bluestacks ever was.
- kevingadd 5y ago
  For me the biggest problem with Bluestacks is that apps crash frequently and at random on both 4 and 5. It's really baffling that it manages to be so low-quality compared to its competition when they all seem to be using Virtualbox at their core.

RGamma 5y ago

Oh boy, soon I might be able play my favorite Android trash games [1] natively on the PC! [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=JT79TVpF1ds&list=PLlc94szfcNDHtzl6hX2PVMJtRBDAT4jWJ&index=6 https://youtube.com/watch?v=JT79TVpF1ds&list=PLlc94szfcNDHtz...

alexmcc81 5y ago

Windows is using Amazons Android store? That raises some uncomfortable questions about privacy: > Regardless of whether you choose to apply Amazon DRM, Amazon wraps your app with code that enables the app to communicate with the Amazon Appstore client to collect analytics, evaluate and enforce program policies, and share aggregated information with you. Your app will always communicate with the Amazon Appstore client when it starts, even if you choose not to apply DRM. https://www.developer.amazon.com/docs/app-submission/understanding-submission.html#about_drm https://www.developer.amazon.com/docs/app-submission/underst...

nyanpasu64 5y ago
> When your app starts on a Fire device, I don't know if the telemetry applies to all apps on the Amazon store, or only apps installed on Fire devices. If the former, I would feel very uneasy about installing Amazon store apps on Windows.

gjsman-1000 5y ago

In classic Microsoft scattershot leadership, the preview is only available to Beta channel members, but not Dev channel members. Typically, new features would go Dev > Beta > RC > Final. This is going Beta > Dev > RC > release. Surprise - Dev channel members (who were there because they wanted Android apps as soon as possible) are pissed. It also doesn't help that Microsoft removed the ability to switch to the Beta channel from the Dev channel a few months ago without notice.

fleaaaa 5y ago
Probably something being in conflict with WSA in dev channel is the problem atm. This is first time something is released on beta channel first afaik.
- sylens 5y ago
  If this is the case, some communication about it would probably go a long way
  - fleaaaa 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure this isn't a sole issue in MS..
MikusR 5y ago
Dev channel is for what will become Windows 12.
- anaganisk 5y ago
  Ah great, they can use the iOS emulator there.

symlinkk 5y ago

What do people use features like this for?

LuisMondragon 5y ago
I translate games and use Android emulators on Windows to test games. I think I could use the Android subsystem, I would give it a try.
unicornporn 5y ago
Was just about to ask the same question. I can't come up with a single Android app I'd like to run on desktop. Is it just an app development thing?
- com2kid 5y ago
  Plenty of board games have android only apps that let you play multiplayer, but no web or windows app. So that is one use case! They even tend to support tablet layouts.
- lostgame 5y ago
  Instagram and Snapchat want to say hi. Even stuff like TextPlus that lacks desktop clients. I can think of quite a few apps I'd immediately grab.
- cturtle 5y ago
  Maybe Venmo since there is no desktop/web client. It frustrates me that Venmo has become so popular in my circles when it’s smartphone-only. I have a smartphone so I’ll keep using it there, but I could imagine some might appreciate the option to run apps like Venmo on a PC.
  - thekyle 5y ago
    The Venmo website allows you to send and receive money just like the app.
    - 5y ago

doublerebel 5y ago

Requires use of Hyper-V... does this mean they will bring Hyper-V to Home edition? Seems like many users who would run Android apps are likely to crossover with the group of users who are not going to upgrade their Windows license to Pro or better. Windows Subsystem for Android™... runs in a Hyper-V Virtual Machine, like the Windows Subsystem for Linux.

vadfa 5y ago
They can bring Hyper-V to Home and only let you use it to run Android apps.
madeofpalk 5y ago
WSL, with Hyper-V, is available in Windows Home. > The newest version of WSL uses Hyper-V architecture to enable its virtualization. This architecture will be available in the 'Virtual Machine Platform' optional component. This optional component will be available on all SKUs. You can expect to see more details about this experience soon as we get closer to the WSL 2 release. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/faq https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/faq
xeromal 5y ago
Interestingly, I don't see an entry for it in hyper-v
- zamadatix 5y ago
  This and WSL use "Virtual Machine Platform" which is a bit like WebView2 but for virtualization.

marcodiego 5y ago

Now that they have WSL2 it would be much better to just contribute to waydroid: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28616985 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28616985

nsonha 5y ago
what does WSL 2 have anything to do with it? Most people wouldn't run waydroid on wsl, that's 2 levers of abstraction.

encryptluks2 5y ago

> Windows is the most open platform on the planet for creators. Gaslighting 101

KoftaBob 5y ago
That's not what gaslighting is.
FileSorter 5y ago
That is an objectively true statement.
- Karunamon 5y ago
  Only in a world without Linux distros. Something you have to pay money for, agree to a bunch of dubious legalese, and cede control over how your device operates is pretty much the opposite of "open".
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

nikanj 5y ago

"Mobile games: Play some of the most popular mobile games like Lords Mobile, June’s Journey, Coin Master, and more." I'm reasonably certain those are not the most popular mobile games right now.

alexdumitru 5y ago
They are some of the worst games for sure. Pay to win and the "whales" spend tens of thousands to make sure they do.
kumarvvr 5y ago
Mobile games are meant for use with hands and gestures. Not sure how a mouse would be fun with that.
- nikolay 5y ago
  Windows is not macOS - it supports touchscreens and most Windows notebooks have touchscreens!
  - kumarvvr 5y ago
    Personally I don't know a lot of people who would like to touch their Laptop screen. Its just not convenient. I am saying that as someone who got excited by the thought and actually bought a Dell touchscreen laptop. In laptop mode, its just not worth it.
    - Osiris 5y ago
      My wife and kids touch their screens all the time. I often reach over my wife's shoulder and tap a button or something on the screen rather than reaching for the trackpad. It may not be that useful for your particular use case but that doesn't mean it's not useful for others.
      - kumarvvr 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

mdasen 5y ago

Is this a good move for Microsoft? It feels like what IBM tried with OS/2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2#Windows_3.x_compatibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2#Windows_3.x_compatibility IBM created a Windows compatibility layer. However, that meant that developers saw that they could write their programs once for Windows and OS/2 users would be able to use the programs. The reverse wouldn't be true. So there was little incentive to create native apps for OS/2 compared to Windows. https://www.howtogeek.com/688970/what-was-ibms-os2-and-why-did-it-matter/ https://www.howtogeek.com/688970/what-was-ibms-os2-and-why-d... > Also, OS/2 had a chicken-and-egg problem. Its best selling point was its compatibility with MS-DOS and Windows applications. However, this meant few developers took the time to write OS/2-native apps. So, why run OS/2 at all? Do developers start believing that an Android app is enough to also court the Windows market? Android apps, even if they run "well" on Windows, won't be as well adapted to the Windows UX as apps intended for Windows. This isn't the case of Microsoft saying "you can now develop for Windows using the Android APIs." It's more, "you can now run Android apps with their phone UX (as submitted to a phone app store) on Windows." I'm not saying that the feature won't be popular. However, it is potentially a weak strategy. Let's say that Microsoft makes Android apps on laptops/desktops popular. That makes it easier to market ChromeOS/Android-based laptops/desktops. If people see their apps as coming from Android and not Windows, why bother with the Windows license?

mixmastamyk 5y ago
Windows is firmly entrenched, OS/2 never was.
jitl 5y ago
I don’t think this is much of a difference for me. I have Android, iOS, and Electron/Web developers. Right now we target Windows with Electron, but could use Android in the future. Either way I’m not really building a Windows desktop app that would give Microsoft a moat. I think they realize that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Osiris 5y ago
Nitpick: it wasn't a compatibility layer. It was actually Windows 3.1 running in DOS. There was no emulation.

MikusR 5y ago

This is based on AOSP and not Closed source Google Android. So wait for Google to cancel Microsofts licence to make Android devices.

intack-choi 5y ago
They can't
- MikusR 5y ago
  Microsoft makes Surface Duo. A Google certified Android device. Google forbids companies that make Android devices to make devices on Android forks.
  - smileybarry 5y ago
    I guess the technicality they can use here is "we're not shipping a device based on AOSP, but a software feature based on AOSP". Even Surface hardware is technically a Windows-based device with AOSP features.
yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
That would be fantastic; if anyone can call Google out on that anticompetitive nonsense MS is a good bet.