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> Apple’s stated intents to actively incriminate you by scanning your photos on a personal device More accurately put, their intent is to scan cloud photos for

> Apple’s stated intents to actively incriminate you by scanning your photos on a personal device More accurately put, their intent is to scan cloud photos for exact matches with known child pornography material (like every other cloud provider, including Google), and then have the case reviewed by a human only after multiple positives, and only then forwarding the case to law enforcement (based on photos you chose to upload to the cloud)

artificialLimbs 5y ago
This is the stated initial iteration.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
darth_avocado 5y ago
Correct, but there have been known False positives that have hash collisions in this system. That is something to care about considering the trust in law enforcement is eroding day by day
- theshrike79 5y ago
  The false positives are matches with absolute gibberish generated photos.
flutas 5y ago
> their intent is to scan cloud photos corrected: their intent is to scan all photos in your photo library, on your device, including images automatically pulled in from from various sources such as messages, if you have iCloud Photo enabled.
- simonh 5y ago
  They do not have the ability to scan photos stored on your phone that are not uploaded to iCloud. The scan is only implemented in the iCloud photos upload system.
  - gigel82 5y ago
    If that was the case they'd just implement it on their own servers, just like everybody else (it's not like iCloud is E2EE). In reality they probably have a "photoscanner.so / .dylib" that currently is only linked in by the iCloud uploader thing, but at any time could be called in by any other part of the system (or offer exploits new avenues for data exfiltration), which was actually spelled out in their initial announcement (there will be a system API for accessing it). So they absolutely have the ability to scan photos on your phone; the fact that they don't intend to currently use it outside of the iCloud uploader is totally immaterial to this debate (the thing I don't want on my phone is photoscanner.so or any such capability).
    - simonh 5y ago
      At any time they could implement a new feature in iPhone to do anything, yes that's true, and yes they could be flat out lying that this is how it's implemented. They could be lying about the whole thing. If they'd implemented it on their servers, they could still have taken that code and later put it on their phones and run it on whatever photos they liked. Come on, now you're really going off the rails. What we're discussing here is the system Apple has said they have implemented and described. Anything beyond that is hearsay and accusation, for which some evidence would be appreciated. If you're just going to believe whatever you want to, and damn the evidence or what anyone says, go ahead. There's nothing much more to say.
      - spacebear 5y ago
        I think that they can do that is the problem, though? If you don’t like the way Google is running things, you can swap out the OS on your Pixel for one of several open source privacy-focused Android forks. But if Apple does something to iOS you don’t like, you’re stuck with it.
- marcellus23 5y ago
  > images automatically pulled in from from various sources such as messages As far as I am aware, this is false and there is no mechanism on iOS by which images are "automatically pulled into" the photo library from anywhere, Messages or otherwise. Do you have a source or an example of how that could happen? (edit: people are mentioning Whatsapp, which I guess has an option to auto-save received photos. Fair enough, but that's a third-party app and requires you to enable photos access anyway, so it's pretty clearly not what the parent meant). > their intent is to scan all photos in your photo library, on your device ... if you have iCloud photos enabled Yes, that's what I said. Enabling iCloud photos uploads your photo library to the cloud, so it's scanning your cloud photos.
  - flutas 5y ago
    > As far as I am aware, there is no mechanism on iOS by which images are "automatically pulled into" iCloud photos from anywhere, Messages or otherwise. Do you have a source or an example of how that could happen? When I receive images from my friends, they don't go into my photo library until I explicitly tap "save". Per Apple [0] >Shared with You works across the system to find the (...) photos, and more that are shared in Messages conversations, and conveniently surfaces them in apps like Photos (...) making it easy to quickly access the information in context. --- >Yes, that's what I said. Enabling iCloud photos uploads your photo library to the cloud, so it's scanning your cloud photos. Being disingenuous about it is still a thing though. You stated > More accurately put, their intent is to scan cloud photos (...) (like every other cloud provider, including Google) which makes it appear that the photos are only scanned server side "like every other cloud provider". Client side scanning is something that no other provider does, in contrast to what you stated. [0]: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/06/ios-15-brings-powerful-new-features-to-stay-connected-focus-explore-and-more/#:~:text=Shared%20with%20You,information%20in%20context https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/06/ios-15-brings-powerfu....
    - marcellus23 5y ago
      Shared with You does not actually save the images to your photo library. It just surfaces them inside the Photos app. I will admit it's not very clear from the press release, but those are the facts. I was not being disingenuous, frankly. I said that Apple is scanning your cloud photos, i.e. they are scanning photos that are uploaded to the cloud. Photos not being uploaded to the cloud are not scanned. I made no claims about where the scanning is happening, and I'm not particularly sure why it matters in any material sense.
- jodrellblank 5y ago
  "The CSAM scanning system is a part of the iCloud Photos upload process and it will be triggered once the upload is initiated. Keep in mind that it does not scan private photo libraries stored on iPhone devices" - https://medium.com/codequest/technologies-behind-the-apples-csam-detection-system-f5da1b257981 https://medium.com/codequest/technologies-behind-the-apples-... If you want to "correct" the claim to say their intent is to scan every photo, citation needed.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  Apple does not scan on device photos at all. It's something they announced they might do to images you upload to iCloud Photos some day in the future. Google, on the other hand, has been scanning the entire contents of your account for the past decade. >a man [was] arrested on child pornography charges, after Google tipped off authorities about illegal images found in the Houston suspect’s Gmail account. https://techcrunch.com/2014/08/06/why-the-gmail-scan-that-led-to-a-mans-arrest-for-child-porn-was-not-a-privacy-violation/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/08/06/why-the-gmail-scan-that-le...
  - 8note 5y ago
    I dont think you can verify that. Apple claims to not scan your pictures, but that's unrelated to whether they scan your pictures
    - GeekyBear 5y ago
      In the same way that you cannot verify that Google does not sell your data to third party data brokers. You either believe their corporate communications on the subject or you do not.
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
    You do not have to use Google Photos if you do not want to on any Android phone. You can upload photos to your own server in the background exactly like the Google Photos app does. On iOS, only iCloud Photos can do that. It is strictly worse for privacy.
    - GeekyBear 5y ago
      You do not have to use iCloud Photos either. However, Google is scanning everything in your account. We recently had a thread from a historian whose entire account was suspended after Google scanned all the files in his Google Drive, and didn't like what they saw (files on the history of tanks). https://support.google.com/accounts/thread/81988101/google-locked-my-account-for-sharing-a-historical-archive-they-labelled-as-terrorism-content?hl=en https://support.google.com/accounts/thread/81988101/google-l...
taylorlapeyre 5y ago
Additionally, the while the publicity of that announcement was terrible PR for apple, it was really a request for comment. They got comments from security professionals, and then they acknowledged the problems, retracted the announcement, and are working with those professionals on a system that will be better from a privacy perspective. Try getting that behavior from Google, a company who's existence is dependent on surveillance advertising.
- kadoban 5y ago
  Source for that? The most response I saw was a "sorry-not-sorry" and they were just going ahead.
  - taylorlapeyre 5y ago
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/03/apple-delays-controversial-plan-to-scan-iphones-for-child-exploitation-images.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/03/apple-delays-controversial-p...
alexmcc81 5y ago
> exact matches Not exact matches. Hashes. Hashes that were quickly show to have collisions that the company brushed off.
- psychometry 5y ago
  Thus the manual review. No one's going to be going to prison over a hash collision here.
  - gameman144 5y ago
    But a manual reviewer in Cupertino or elsewhere still gets access to your personal (possibly very intimate or otherwise private) photos. Privacy from law enforcement is hardly the only privacy that people value.
    - Jtsummers 5y ago
      If you desire privacy, never upload your images to any cloud service that doesn't offer true end-to-end encryption of the data (that is, one where they do not have the key). Use a service where data is only decryptable on your own devices or devices that you personally authorize. Which is, presently, none of the popular services that I'm aware of.
      - pa7ch 5y ago
        Thats the issue with local scanning, even if you used an e2e cloud for your photos the encryption would be bypassed with local scanning.
      - kemayo 5y ago
        It's even probably the right choice for a popular service to have made. Full E2E encryption is going to trigger nightmare "I lost all my photos" customer-service stories when people forget their passwords... which is acceptable when you deliberately signed up for a service where security was the selling point, but not great for someone who bought a mass-market phone.
gjsman-1000 5y ago
You know that Google Photos scans everything, server-side, since like 2012 right?
- toiletfuneral 5y ago
  Amazing how low in the comments this is…not defending apple at all but it’s insane to think other manufacturers are somehow more protective of your data
- fractalb 5y ago
  Maybe the point is that's on the server, not on the device.
  - selykg 5y ago
    On the device means it's going to the server in Apple's case. The option is only enabled when you have the iCloud Photos feature enabled, which means the photos it's scanning are photos that are on their way to the cloud. If you turn the iCloud Photos feature off, no more scanning is happening. This seems pretty simple to me.
    - erklik 5y ago
      > If you turn the iCloud Photos feature off, no more scanning is happening. Yet. A few years later, [Insert gov agency here] will force Apple to scan all photos and compare hashes to material banned by the government. This ability to scan photos on the device simply should not exist. If they only want to scan photos being uploaded, just scan them on the server itself. It really isn't that hard. Apple has turned a steel barrier that's capability focused, into a policy barrier that can be changed by influencing people. That's simply much more insecure and much less privacy focused.
echelon 5y ago
> known child pornography material For some definition. Russia's FSB might have a very different idea of what this is. Anti-Putin memes, for instance. Navalny support materials or brochures. You'll have to watch what you download, because your phone might upload it and incriminate you. Or China's MSS. Winnie the Pooh, Tiananmen Square, Free HK, etc. Or even the FBI. Financial or political leaks, Wikileaks, etc. Once they know who you are and why they don't like you, they can incriminate you in other ways. This helps them find and flag you. They don't even need to monitor and decrypt traffic - they can just upload hashes of things they don't like and let Apple's dragnet do all the work. Don't buy into "CSAM" scare. It's never the intent. The powers that be don't give a damn about children. It's about power.
- theshrike79 5y ago
  The definition is from NCMEC[0] and ONLY from NCMEC. No FSB, no MSS, no FBI. This is the EXACT SAME database EVERY cloud provider has been using for about a decade. Look up Microsoft PhotoDNA. The only difference is that the company doing it was Apple, who wanted to do the checks on-device BEFORE upload. And with multiple redundancies and human review. Not like Microsoft, who have - for example - shut down the MS account of a German man for having photos of his own children on a beach. No human review, no way to complain. Everything gone from Outlook mail to Xbox account. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_for_Missing_%26_Exploited_Children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_for_Missing_%2...
  - echelon 5y ago
    Longbets 10 years $10,000 we see this used by Apple (or a government agency) in a way that deviates from your attestation? I'll eat my hat if this system doesn't hurt someone innocent.
    - threeseed 5y ago
      I will happily take that bet. Because if a government agency is involved they will be doing so server-side instead of client-side.
boppo1 5y ago
You mean, setting a precedent for expansion of personal device scanning
optimiz3 5y ago
Having my photos warantlessly rifled through by a machine and then a human really puts me at ease!
RF_Savage 5y ago
People have had tons of fun finding collisions and seeing how far they can take an image until the apple neuralhash algo thinks it different. It very much is not an exact match like what you would get with MD5 for example. But a "perceptual hash" that means that it gets the same has even if you crop it by a couple of pixels or change some pixels.
pcmoney 5y ago
Or more more accurately, their stated intent is to scan for anything any government deems illegal in any country where they operate. Also who is reviewing this known child pornography list? Hopefully nobody because it is Child pornography but also hopefully somebody because what if somebody slips something in there… Say a offensive political cartoon or a ethnic group symbol or a picture of Tiananmen Square. This list of “offensive images” needs to be auditable. Also it is crossing a line in the sand because it is on your personal device not in their servers. All you can hope for is that they don’t alter the deal further.
- crummy 5y ago
  > Also it is crossing a line in the sand because it is on your personal device not in their server Seconds after they scan it the files will be on their server, right?
  - pcmoney 5y ago
    They are scanning files on your device. The rest is just implementation details
lern_too_spel 5y ago
The difference is that if you don't want your photos scanned by anybody but you still want your photos uploaded in the background, you can do that on Android, but you can't do that on Android. People who value privacy do not use iOS devices.
- weikju 5y ago
  Or rather: People who value privacy do not upload their photos to someone else' servers
quitit 5y ago
The person arguing with you has misinterpreted how Photos works, the information you have provided is correct - they are merely surfaced in the Photos app and the software provides the user the option to save them to their library. Sometimes users on this site play dumb or falsely represent the facts for the sake of their argument.

artificialLimbs 5y ago

This is the stated initial iteration.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

darth_avocado 5y ago

Correct, but there have been known False positives that have hash collisions in this system. That is something to care about considering the trust in law enforcement is eroding day by day

theshrike79 5y ago
The false positives are matches with absolute gibberish generated photos.

flutas 5y ago

> their intent is to scan cloud photos corrected: their intent is to scan all photos in your photo library, on your device, including images automatically pulled in from from various sources such as messages, if you have iCloud Photo enabled.

simonh 5y ago
They do not have the ability to scan photos stored on your phone that are not uploaded to iCloud. The scan is only implemented in the iCloud photos upload system.
- gigel82 5y ago
  If that was the case they'd just implement it on their own servers, just like everybody else (it's not like iCloud is E2EE). In reality they probably have a "photoscanner.so / .dylib" that currently is only linked in by the iCloud uploader thing, but at any time could be called in by any other part of the system (or offer exploits new avenues for data exfiltration), which was actually spelled out in their initial announcement (there will be a system API for accessing it). So they absolutely have the ability to scan photos on your phone; the fact that they don't intend to currently use it outside of the iCloud uploader is totally immaterial to this debate (the thing I don't want on my phone is photoscanner.so or any such capability).
  - simonh 5y ago
    At any time they could implement a new feature in iPhone to do anything, yes that's true, and yes they could be flat out lying that this is how it's implemented. They could be lying about the whole thing. If they'd implemented it on their servers, they could still have taken that code and later put it on their phones and run it on whatever photos they liked. Come on, now you're really going off the rails. What we're discussing here is the system Apple has said they have implemented and described. Anything beyond that is hearsay and accusation, for which some evidence would be appreciated. If you're just going to believe whatever you want to, and damn the evidence or what anyone says, go ahead. There's nothing much more to say.
    - spacebear 5y ago
      I think that they can do that is the problem, though? If you don’t like the way Google is running things, you can swap out the OS on your Pixel for one of several open source privacy-focused Android forks. But if Apple does something to iOS you don’t like, you’re stuck with it.
marcellus23 5y ago
> images automatically pulled in from from various sources such as messages As far as I am aware, this is false and there is no mechanism on iOS by which images are "automatically pulled into" the photo library from anywhere, Messages or otherwise. Do you have a source or an example of how that could happen? (edit: people are mentioning Whatsapp, which I guess has an option to auto-save received photos. Fair enough, but that's a third-party app and requires you to enable photos access anyway, so it's pretty clearly not what the parent meant). > their intent is to scan all photos in your photo library, on your device ... if you have iCloud photos enabled Yes, that's what I said. Enabling iCloud photos uploads your photo library to the cloud, so it's scanning your cloud photos.
- flutas 5y ago
  > As far as I am aware, there is no mechanism on iOS by which images are "automatically pulled into" iCloud photos from anywhere, Messages or otherwise. Do you have a source or an example of how that could happen? When I receive images from my friends, they don't go into my photo library until I explicitly tap "save". Per Apple [0] >Shared with You works across the system to find the (...) photos, and more that are shared in Messages conversations, and conveniently surfaces them in apps like Photos (...) making it easy to quickly access the information in context. --- >Yes, that's what I said. Enabling iCloud photos uploads your photo library to the cloud, so it's scanning your cloud photos. Being disingenuous about it is still a thing though. You stated > More accurately put, their intent is to scan cloud photos (...) (like every other cloud provider, including Google) which makes it appear that the photos are only scanned server side "like every other cloud provider". Client side scanning is something that no other provider does, in contrast to what you stated. [0]: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/06/ios-15-brings-powerful-new-features-to-stay-connected-focus-explore-and-more/#:~:text=Shared%20with%20You,information%20in%20context https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/06/ios-15-brings-powerfu....
  - marcellus23 5y ago
    Shared with You does not actually save the images to your photo library. It just surfaces them inside the Photos app. I will admit it's not very clear from the press release, but those are the facts. I was not being disingenuous, frankly. I said that Apple is scanning your cloud photos, i.e. they are scanning photos that are uploaded to the cloud. Photos not being uploaded to the cloud are not scanned. I made no claims about where the scanning is happening, and I'm not particularly sure why it matters in any material sense.
jodrellblank 5y ago
"The CSAM scanning system is a part of the iCloud Photos upload process and it will be triggered once the upload is initiated. Keep in mind that it does not scan private photo libraries stored on iPhone devices" - https://medium.com/codequest/technologies-behind-the-apples-csam-detection-system-f5da1b257981 https://medium.com/codequest/technologies-behind-the-apples-... If you want to "correct" the claim to say their intent is to scan every photo, citation needed.
GeekyBear 5y ago
Apple does not scan on device photos at all. It's something they announced they might do to images you upload to iCloud Photos some day in the future. Google, on the other hand, has been scanning the entire contents of your account for the past decade. >a man [was] arrested on child pornography charges, after Google tipped off authorities about illegal images found in the Houston suspect’s Gmail account. https://techcrunch.com/2014/08/06/why-the-gmail-scan-that-led-to-a-mans-arrest-for-child-porn-was-not-a-privacy-violation/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/08/06/why-the-gmail-scan-that-le...
- 8note 5y ago
  I dont think you can verify that. Apple claims to not scan your pictures, but that's unrelated to whether they scan your pictures
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    In the same way that you cannot verify that Google does not sell your data to third party data brokers. You either believe their corporate communications on the subject or you do not.
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  You do not have to use Google Photos if you do not want to on any Android phone. You can upload photos to your own server in the background exactly like the Google Photos app does. On iOS, only iCloud Photos can do that. It is strictly worse for privacy.
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    You do not have to use iCloud Photos either. However, Google is scanning everything in your account. We recently had a thread from a historian whose entire account was suspended after Google scanned all the files in his Google Drive, and didn't like what they saw (files on the history of tanks). https://support.google.com/accounts/thread/81988101/google-locked-my-account-for-sharing-a-historical-archive-they-labelled-as-terrorism-content?hl=en https://support.google.com/accounts/thread/81988101/google-l...

taylorlapeyre 5y ago

Additionally, the while the publicity of that announcement was terrible PR for apple, it was really a request for comment. They got comments from security professionals, and then they acknowledged the problems, retracted the announcement, and are working with those professionals on a system that will be better from a privacy perspective. Try getting that behavior from Google, a company who's existence is dependent on surveillance advertising.

kadoban 5y ago
Source for that? The most response I saw was a "sorry-not-sorry" and they were just going ahead.
- taylorlapeyre 5y ago
  https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/03/apple-delays-controversial-plan-to-scan-iphones-for-child-exploitation-images.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/03/apple-delays-controversial-p...

alexmcc81 5y ago

> exact matches Not exact matches. Hashes. Hashes that were quickly show to have collisions that the company brushed off.

psychometry 5y ago
Thus the manual review. No one's going to be going to prison over a hash collision here.
- gameman144 5y ago
  But a manual reviewer in Cupertino or elsewhere still gets access to your personal (possibly very intimate or otherwise private) photos. Privacy from law enforcement is hardly the only privacy that people value.
  - Jtsummers 5y ago
    If you desire privacy, never upload your images to any cloud service that doesn't offer true end-to-end encryption of the data (that is, one where they do not have the key). Use a service where data is only decryptable on your own devices or devices that you personally authorize. Which is, presently, none of the popular services that I'm aware of.
    - pa7ch 5y ago
      Thats the issue with local scanning, even if you used an e2e cloud for your photos the encryption would be bypassed with local scanning.
    - kemayo 5y ago
      It's even probably the right choice for a popular service to have made. Full E2E encryption is going to trigger nightmare "I lost all my photos" customer-service stories when people forget their passwords... which is acceptable when you deliberately signed up for a service where security was the selling point, but not great for someone who bought a mass-market phone.

gjsman-1000 5y ago

You know that Google Photos scans everything, server-side, since like 2012 right?

toiletfuneral 5y ago
Amazing how low in the comments this is…not defending apple at all but it’s insane to think other manufacturers are somehow more protective of your data
fractalb 5y ago
Maybe the point is that's on the server, not on the device.
- selykg 5y ago
  On the device means it's going to the server in Apple's case. The option is only enabled when you have the iCloud Photos feature enabled, which means the photos it's scanning are photos that are on their way to the cloud. If you turn the iCloud Photos feature off, no more scanning is happening. This seems pretty simple to me.
  - erklik 5y ago
    > If you turn the iCloud Photos feature off, no more scanning is happening. Yet. A few years later, [Insert gov agency here] will force Apple to scan all photos and compare hashes to material banned by the government. This ability to scan photos on the device simply should not exist. If they only want to scan photos being uploaded, just scan them on the server itself. It really isn't that hard. Apple has turned a steel barrier that's capability focused, into a policy barrier that can be changed by influencing people. That's simply much more insecure and much less privacy focused.

echelon 5y ago

> known child pornography material For some definition. Russia's FSB might have a very different idea of what this is. Anti-Putin memes, for instance. Navalny support materials or brochures. You'll have to watch what you download, because your phone might upload it and incriminate you. Or China's MSS. Winnie the Pooh, Tiananmen Square, Free HK, etc. Or even the FBI. Financial or political leaks, Wikileaks, etc. Once they know who you are and why they don't like you, they can incriminate you in other ways. This helps them find and flag you. They don't even need to monitor and decrypt traffic - they can just upload hashes of things they don't like and let Apple's dragnet do all the work. Don't buy into "CSAM" scare. It's never the intent. The powers that be don't give a damn about children. It's about power.

theshrike79 5y ago
The definition is from NCMEC[0] and ONLY from NCMEC. No FSB, no MSS, no FBI. This is the EXACT SAME database EVERY cloud provider has been using for about a decade. Look up Microsoft PhotoDNA. The only difference is that the company doing it was Apple, who wanted to do the checks on-device BEFORE upload. And with multiple redundancies and human review. Not like Microsoft, who have - for example - shut down the MS account of a German man for having photos of his own children on a beach. No human review, no way to complain. Everything gone from Outlook mail to Xbox account. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_for_Missing_%26_Exploited_Children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_for_Missing_%2...
- echelon 5y ago
  Longbets 10 years $10,000 we see this used by Apple (or a government agency) in a way that deviates from your attestation? I'll eat my hat if this system doesn't hurt someone innocent.
  - threeseed 5y ago
    I will happily take that bet. Because if a government agency is involved they will be doing so server-side instead of client-side.

boppo1 5y ago

You mean, setting a precedent for expansion of personal device scanning

optimiz3 5y ago

Having my photos warantlessly rifled through by a machine and then a human really puts me at ease!

RF_Savage 5y ago

People have had tons of fun finding collisions and seeing how far they can take an image until the apple neuralhash algo thinks it different. It very much is not an exact match like what you would get with MD5 for example. But a "perceptual hash" that means that it gets the same has even if you crop it by a couple of pixels or change some pixels.

pcmoney 5y ago

Or more more accurately, their stated intent is to scan for anything any government deems illegal in any country where they operate. Also who is reviewing this known child pornography list? Hopefully nobody because it is Child pornography but also hopefully somebody because what if somebody slips something in there… Say a offensive political cartoon or a ethnic group symbol or a picture of Tiananmen Square. This list of “offensive images” needs to be auditable. Also it is crossing a line in the sand because it is on your personal device not in their servers. All you can hope for is that they don’t alter the deal further.

crummy 5y ago
> Also it is crossing a line in the sand because it is on your personal device not in their server Seconds after they scan it the files will be on their server, right?
- pcmoney 5y ago
  They are scanning files on your device. The rest is just implementation details

lern_too_spel 5y ago

The difference is that if you don't want your photos scanned by anybody but you still want your photos uploaded in the background, you can do that on Android, but you can't do that on Android. People who value privacy do not use iOS devices.

weikju 5y ago
Or rather: People who value privacy do not upload their photos to someone else' servers

quitit 5y ago

The person arguing with you has misinterpreted how Photos works, the information you have provided is correct - they are merely surfaced in the Photos app and the software provides the user the option to save them to their library. Sometimes users on this site play dumb or falsely represent the facts for the sake of their argument.