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All this information in one database... Thats the real insanity here. Why would anyone think that this is a good idea? Leave aside security and safeguards for a

All this information in one database... Thats the real insanity here. Why would anyone think that this is a good idea? Leave aside security and safeguards for a moment, just compiling this database is neglectful at the very least...

sofixa 5y ago
What? How do you imagine that could work? Only paper records, and any interaction with any public administration thing takes a few months? It's generally a good idea to have the tax office, the healthcare ministry/insurance people, police, etc. know who the people of the country are and how to identify them. It's the norm in the EU, and works fine as long as security is taken seriously (which obviously wasn't in Argentina).
Pxtl 5y ago
Yes, I think it's a good idea for government to have that info. Government needs to provide services and manage resources, which means knowing who and where people live, and have a proper ID number to manage that data. The alternative is for government to have 90% subsets of the same data in a a thousand different databases, one per-department, per-jurisdiction.
- Arrath 5y ago
  And then Dept A thinks you live here, Dept B thinks you live there, Dept C thinks you have a warrant out for your arrest, and little municipal dept Y.43 thinks you're dead. Yeah, I can see a few problems with that.
marcosdumay 5y ago
That's a basic citizen database. The only non-obvious information is the labor identification code. Except for that, it's just "who exists and how do we call them?"
heavenlyblue 5y ago
I don't understand how you can seriously think that having two databases instead of one would make it any easier. OK, if we had two databases the overlap would be, let's say, 50% and there would be another 20% in the database A that doesn't exist in database B. Still 70% of information stolen. That on top of the fact that having two separate databases means twice the probability of different bugs in two different systems. We must all move away from using PI as passwords, that's all we need to do. Then this problem will go away.
- dewey 5y ago
  > We must all move away from using PI as passwords, that's all we need to do. Then this problem will go away. You make it sound like it's an easily solved problem, which it apparently isn't.
- adolph 5y ago
  I just use password reset every time I have to log in and do enough login fails afterward to lockout my account.
vadfa 5y ago
Isn't it like this in practically every European country? We have ID cards with every one of those fields printed on them, including thumbprints. All of that information is probably in one big table somewhere.
- DoingIsLearning 5y ago
  Most EU cards also integrate fiscal id numbers and national healthcare id numbers in the chip but arguably do exclude registered address, so only a city/province of residence is available.
  - vadfa 5y ago
    Not sure about the rest but Spanish ID card includes full address.
    - N19PEDL2 5y ago
      Italian ID cards too, as well as the owner's signature, the fiscal code (an unique identification code similar to the SSN in the USA) and the fingerprints (though these latter are stored in the chip only, not printed on the card). It's very likely that this data is also stored in some government database, which I hope will never get breached.
      - CaciaraAsAServi 5y ago
        Nitpick (as you well know) - codice fiscale in Italy differs from USA SSN in that, for once, it has never had AFAIK any semblance of secrecy at all, as you can easily construct it starting from name, surname, place and date of birth [1] Funnily enough, this sometimes results in two individuals computing to the same code [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_fiscal_code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_fiscal_code [2] https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omocodia https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omocodia
  - soco 5y ago
    Swiss cards not but well Switzerland is not EU...
gomox 5y ago
This is a country where when they installed license plate scanners on highways they accompanied them with large screens that show the plate that was just scanned. So as to... I don't know, brag that you're collecting all this information, that is to be inevitably leaked in a while? To make people feel safe, while clearly indicating the highway exits to avoid if you actually steal a car?
- stef25 5y ago
  > This is a country where when they installed license plate scanners on highways they accompanied them with large screens that show the plate that was just scanned. This is done in France when it catches you driving too fast. "ABC 123" you're going too fast! It's a bit jarring your plate up on a screen so it works kind of well against speeding. They don't need to store your plate to use this feature. Of course plates are being scanned (and probably stored) all over the place now (toll booths, big roads in & out of the cities), not denying that.
  - gomox 5y ago
    In our case its not shaming you for speeding or anything specific, it just displays every plate that it scans to advertise the scanner. Also in a not very surprising turn of events, a lot of the screens just show a fixed plate these days which makes you wonder which component broke (is it the screen, or the scanner?)
Spooky23 5y ago
The horse left the barn before you were born. All of this information is in multiple single databases maintained by insurance companies in the US. And that data is in turn linked to all sorts of behavioral and affinity data. GEICO knows more about you than DMV.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

sofixa 5y ago

What? How do you imagine that could work? Only paper records, and any interaction with any public administration thing takes a few months? It's generally a good idea to have the tax office, the healthcare ministry/insurance people, police, etc. know who the people of the country are and how to identify them. It's the norm in the EU, and works fine as long as security is taken seriously (which obviously wasn't in Argentina).

Pxtl 5y ago

Yes, I think it's a good idea for government to have that info. Government needs to provide services and manage resources, which means knowing who and where people live, and have a proper ID number to manage that data. The alternative is for government to have 90% subsets of the same data in a a thousand different databases, one per-department, per-jurisdiction.

Arrath 5y ago
And then Dept A thinks you live here, Dept B thinks you live there, Dept C thinks you have a warrant out for your arrest, and little municipal dept Y.43 thinks you're dead. Yeah, I can see a few problems with that.

marcosdumay 5y ago

That's a basic citizen database. The only non-obvious information is the labor identification code. Except for that, it's just "who exists and how do we call them?"

heavenlyblue 5y ago

I don't understand how you can seriously think that having two databases instead of one would make it any easier. OK, if we had two databases the overlap would be, let's say, 50% and there would be another 20% in the database A that doesn't exist in database B. Still 70% of information stolen. That on top of the fact that having two separate databases means twice the probability of different bugs in two different systems. We must all move away from using PI as passwords, that's all we need to do. Then this problem will go away.

dewey 5y ago
> We must all move away from using PI as passwords, that's all we need to do. Then this problem will go away. You make it sound like it's an easily solved problem, which it apparently isn't.
adolph 5y ago
I just use password reset every time I have to log in and do enough login fails afterward to lockout my account.

vadfa 5y ago

Isn't it like this in practically every European country? We have ID cards with every one of those fields printed on them, including thumbprints. All of that information is probably in one big table somewhere.

DoingIsLearning 5y ago
Most EU cards also integrate fiscal id numbers and national healthcare id numbers in the chip but arguably do exclude registered address, so only a city/province of residence is available.
- vadfa 5y ago
  Not sure about the rest but Spanish ID card includes full address.
  - N19PEDL2 5y ago
    Italian ID cards too, as well as the owner's signature, the fiscal code (an unique identification code similar to the SSN in the USA) and the fingerprints (though these latter are stored in the chip only, not printed on the card). It's very likely that this data is also stored in some government database, which I hope will never get breached.
    - CaciaraAsAServi 5y ago
      Nitpick (as you well know) - codice fiscale in Italy differs from USA SSN in that, for once, it has never had AFAIK any semblance of secrecy at all, as you can easily construct it starting from name, surname, place and date of birth [1] Funnily enough, this sometimes results in two individuals computing to the same code [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_fiscal_code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_fiscal_code [2] https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omocodia https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omocodia
- soco 5y ago
  Swiss cards not but well Switzerland is not EU...

gomox 5y ago

This is a country where when they installed license plate scanners on highways they accompanied them with large screens that show the plate that was just scanned. So as to... I don't know, brag that you're collecting all this information, that is to be inevitably leaked in a while? To make people feel safe, while clearly indicating the highway exits to avoid if you actually steal a car?

stef25 5y ago
> This is a country where when they installed license plate scanners on highways they accompanied them with large screens that show the plate that was just scanned. This is done in France when it catches you driving too fast. "ABC 123" you're going too fast! It's a bit jarring your plate up on a screen so it works kind of well against speeding. They don't need to store your plate to use this feature. Of course plates are being scanned (and probably stored) all over the place now (toll booths, big roads in & out of the cities), not denying that.
- gomox 5y ago
  In our case its not shaming you for speeding or anything specific, it just displays every plate that it scans to advertise the scanner. Also in a not very surprising turn of events, a lot of the screens just show a fixed plate these days which makes you wonder which component broke (is it the screen, or the scanner?)

Spooky23 5y ago

The horse left the barn before you were born. All of this information is in multiple single databases maintained by insurance companies in the US. And that data is in turn linked to all sorts of behavioral and affinity data. GEICO knows more about you than DMV.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]