6 ms·

Years ago when Airbnb was picking up steam and I was in college I got a gig building a tool to automate cross-referencing Airbnb listings with housing records s

by scrose 5y ago

Years ago when Airbnb was picking up steam and I was in college I got a gig building a tool to automate cross-referencing Airbnb listings with housing records so the city could request the optional tourism tax. What we found surprised all of them. A handful of people were listing sometimes over a dozen properties and avoiding the larger, but not optional, hotel tax. The 80% figure doesn’t surprise me much now just knowing how a few individuals can flood the short-term rental market in an area.

dorchadas 5y ago
> how a few individuals can flood the short-term rental market in an area. And, if it's like some cities (Dublin, Galway), they do this at the expense of the long-term rental market.
- disgruntledphd2 5y ago
  Yeah, but at least the Irish regulations are now involving Revenue, which means they'll be implemented. A common strategy in Irish government is if there's a problem, and you don't really want to do anything but want to make it look like you're doing something, then you give it to local government to implement, as they won't have the resources to do it. As a bonus, you get to point to the law, secure in the knowledge that it won't be implemented.
- Freak_NL 5y ago
  That is one of the given reasons the municipality pursues this. There is a housing crisis in the Netherlands, so that gives some context to this.
  - iso1631 5y ago
    > There is a housing crisis in the Netherlands Is there any western city where there isn't a housing crisis?
    - pastacacioepepe 5y ago
      Perhaps there's something deeply wrong with western housing systems? I don't want to sound too radical, but this seems to be inextricably connected to capitalism. We won't ever solve it without structural changes. What Amsterdam is doing is a decent start at least.
      - hatchnyc 5y ago
        It's old vs young, new vs established. For most homeowners, their home is their most valuable asset. It's just not possible to simultaneously maintain high property values and have affordable housing. Given this, any "solution" to housing affordability is "solving" a problem that a sizable and highly influential segment of the population doesn't want solved. On the contrary, you see real government action whenever home prices fall.
        dorchadas 5y ago
        And that's what I think OP was alluding to about it being "inextricably connected to capitalism". As long as we treat housing like an asset, we'll have this problem. And I don't see how there's any other way to treat housing under a capitalist system.
        AnthonyMouse 5y ago
        The problem isn't a result of treating housing as an asset, it's a structural regulatory problem. Housing is treated as an asset in Tokyo, but they don't have the same regulatory constraints on zoning, so they don't have outrageous housing prices.
        imtringued 5y ago
        You mean an asset with a guaranteed return at the expense of late arrivals who must buy the asset from you. The vast majority of rent seeking is based around coercion. When people advocate for free markets nature seeps through. After all, coercion is completely natural. We don't have heaven on earth so why would a free market lead to the ultimate manifestation of heaven? Get rid of the coercion and you get rid of the problems.
- mandmandam 5y ago
  Poor Galway. The rental situation there is utterly bananas; while buildings are lying vacant for years in the heart of the city. Yes, the rest of the country is like this too, but for whatever reason Galway seems to have it extra bad; I know families that have split up over it.
  - dorchadas 5y ago
    Yeah, I know how bad it was when I was trying to find a spot in 2016; I can only imagine now. I actually dread trying to stay in Dublin after I finish this masters (I'm an international post-grad, so I was able to avail of UCD's scheme for on-campus living thankfully), but I almost dread going to Galway more (though ideally, that's where I'll be).
- simias 5y ago
  And the housing market at large, since they also buy flats to turn them into short term rentals.
  - prox 5y ago
    Decreasing house availability and upping prices, in turn making more money. Starters are usually the victims in this trend.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    Developers were building apartments that were meant for the short-term rental market, too. Even the small amount of new housing that did get built were short-term rentals.
- pietrovismara 5y ago
  Pretty much the same happens in Firenze, Italy.
- nerdponx 5y ago
  I've heard a lot of anecdotes suggesting that this has happened in many cities across the world. It certainly seemed to be a trend in New York for a while, which was/is already suffering with restricted supply, wild speculation, and immense demand driving up prices.
- subpixel 5y ago
  I moved away and returned to NYC twice between 2010 and 2020 - both times it was impossible to miss the impact AirBnB had on the residential rental supply. All over the city, wherever weekly demand was high enough (read, in any neighborhood remotely desirable), rental housing stock was lost to short-term rentals.
mtalantikite 5y ago
A friend was visiting NYC and staying in my Brooklyn neighborhood at an Airbnb back in 2019. One night we were out and we ran into his Airbnb host at a bar. He was French and told me he had about a couple dozen units in the neighborhood all converted to Airbnb hotels, none of which he owned, all of them in some sort of agreement with the landlords. He said he had some in Paris as well and wanted to get up to 50 by the end of the year. He had zero insight into how this was completely problematic and was ruining life for the locals, all he cared about was making lots of money. It's infuriating that we let companies like this be founded on completely illegal premises and continue operating.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

by scrose 5y ago

dorchadas 5y ago

> how a few individuals can flood the short-term rental market in an area. And, if it's like some cities (Dublin, Galway), they do this at the expense of the long-term rental market.

disgruntledphd2 5y ago
Yeah, but at least the Irish regulations are now involving Revenue, which means they'll be implemented. A common strategy in Irish government is if there's a problem, and you don't really want to do anything but want to make it look like you're doing something, then you give it to local government to implement, as they won't have the resources to do it. As a bonus, you get to point to the law, secure in the knowledge that it won't be implemented.
Freak_NL 5y ago
That is one of the given reasons the municipality pursues this. There is a housing crisis in the Netherlands, so that gives some context to this.
- iso1631 5y ago
  > There is a housing crisis in the Netherlands Is there any western city where there isn't a housing crisis?
  - pastacacioepepe 5y ago
    Perhaps there's something deeply wrong with western housing systems? I don't want to sound too radical, but this seems to be inextricably connected to capitalism. We won't ever solve it without structural changes. What Amsterdam is doing is a decent start at least.
    - hatchnyc 5y ago
      It's old vs young, new vs established. For most homeowners, their home is their most valuable asset. It's just not possible to simultaneously maintain high property values and have affordable housing. Given this, any "solution" to housing affordability is "solving" a problem that a sizable and highly influential segment of the population doesn't want solved. On the contrary, you see real government action whenever home prices fall.
      - dorchadas 5y ago
        And that's what I think OP was alluding to about it being "inextricably connected to capitalism". As long as we treat housing like an asset, we'll have this problem. And I don't see how there's any other way to treat housing under a capitalist system.
        AnthonyMouse 5y ago
        The problem isn't a result of treating housing as an asset, it's a structural regulatory problem. Housing is treated as an asset in Tokyo, but they don't have the same regulatory constraints on zoning, so they don't have outrageous housing prices.
        imtringued 5y ago
        You mean an asset with a guaranteed return at the expense of late arrivals who must buy the asset from you. The vast majority of rent seeking is based around coercion. When people advocate for free markets nature seeps through. After all, coercion is completely natural. We don't have heaven on earth so why would a free market lead to the ultimate manifestation of heaven? Get rid of the coercion and you get rid of the problems.
mandmandam 5y ago
Poor Galway. The rental situation there is utterly bananas; while buildings are lying vacant for years in the heart of the city. Yes, the rest of the country is like this too, but for whatever reason Galway seems to have it extra bad; I know families that have split up over it.
- dorchadas 5y ago
  Yeah, I know how bad it was when I was trying to find a spot in 2016; I can only imagine now. I actually dread trying to stay in Dublin after I finish this masters (I'm an international post-grad, so I was able to avail of UCD's scheme for on-campus living thankfully), but I almost dread going to Galway more (though ideally, that's where I'll be).
simias 5y ago
And the housing market at large, since they also buy flats to turn them into short term rentals.
- prox 5y ago
  Decreasing house availability and upping prices, in turn making more money. Starters are usually the victims in this trend.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  Developers were building apartments that were meant for the short-term rental market, too. Even the small amount of new housing that did get built were short-term rentals.
pietrovismara 5y ago
Pretty much the same happens in Firenze, Italy.
nerdponx 5y ago
I've heard a lot of anecdotes suggesting that this has happened in many cities across the world. It certainly seemed to be a trend in New York for a while, which was/is already suffering with restricted supply, wild speculation, and immense demand driving up prices.
subpixel 5y ago
I moved away and returned to NYC twice between 2010 and 2020 - both times it was impossible to miss the impact AirBnB had on the residential rental supply. All over the city, wherever weekly demand was high enough (read, in any neighborhood remotely desirable), rental housing stock was lost to short-term rentals.

mtalantikite 5y ago

A friend was visiting NYC and staying in my Brooklyn neighborhood at an Airbnb back in 2019. One night we were out and we ran into his Airbnb host at a bar. He was French and told me he had about a couple dozen units in the neighborhood all converted to Airbnb hotels, none of which he owned, all of them in some sort of agreement with the landlords. He said he had some in Paris as well and wanted to get up to 50 by the end of the year. He had zero insight into how this was completely problematic and was ruining life for the locals, all he cared about was making lots of money. It's infuriating that we let companies like this be founded on completely illegal premises and continue operating.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]