7 ms·

serious question: why would anyone care?

colejohnson66 5y ago
Because it’s Musk. That alone is enough for a headline that drives clicks. (Whether that’s a good thing or not, I’m not commenting on)
h2odragon 5y ago
Let's say that tesla and VW announce, next month; a new "Quick Swap Standard for Vehicle Batteries" and EV's suddenly become refillable at service stations. That would be a market mover in many senses. Of course such a thing would be sane; so there's no chance of anything like it happening.
- ianai 5y ago
  Especially if it meant the batteries were themselves more easily serviceable. Making batteries less a part of a car and more like a durable good like a keg could have serious economies of scale.
- postingawayonhn 5y ago
  Tesla already tried battery swapping. Technically it is possible but there are some logistical issues and it's not cost competitive with fast charging.
toomuchtodo 5y ago
It validates his domain knowledge and management style. VW brought him in to be critical of how they operate and why they’re behind. It is signal when management brings in the competitor’s CEO to tell you what you’re doing wrong.
- bell-cot 5y ago
  Yes...but it sounds to me mostly like a "change fast or die" signal to VW's hidebound and sclerotic executives.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    Yes, exactly this. Lot of dead wood to be cleaned out over the next decade across legacy automakers.
- bildung 5y ago
  It isn't like VW is much behind Tesla in EV sales: 171k BEV plus 171k PHEV vs. 386k for Tesla in H1 2021, and VW had faster EV growth than Tesla compared to last year. I suspect this is more about interoperability, e.g. a charging station deal or something similar. VW: https://insideevs.com/news/521666/volkswagen-group-sales-plugins-2021q2/ https://insideevs.com/news/521666/volkswagen-group-sales-plu... Tesla: https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-vehicle-deliveries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-v...
  - postingawayonhn 5y ago
    Tesla has already said it will open the Supercharger network. VW's network (Electrify America/Ionity) has always been open.
    - bildung 5y ago
      Yes I meant more like e.g. a VW charging flatrate that also applies when using Teslas network as a VW owner. In any case this is pure speculation.
  - adventured 5y ago
    VW is a far larger company, including when it comes to sales networks, distribution networks, and manufacturing. If there is any scenario - looking out a decade or so - where they don't always outsell Tesla in EVs, it means a horrible disaster has befallen VW as an operating business. Given the size of the global automotive industry and the major players, most of them will end up outselling Tesla in EVs. It's an inevitability. And it says nothing inherently about who the best EV makers are (that goes for Tesla as well). Plenty of mediocre vehicles get sold in volume every year (just look at the garbage sedans GM and Ford produced for a couple of decades).
twistedpair 5y ago
How often does the CEO of one company address management of its biggest competitor? How often can you even get said CEOs to public acknowledge the name of their competitors? Elon started Tesla to bring about the EV revolution. He's not throwing dust in the face of the competition, but rather telling them how to catch up, because he wants their joint goal to be realized: ubiquitous EVs.
- Johnyma22 5y ago
  "Elon started Tesla to bring about the EV revolution." -- Nope. 1) He didn't start Tesla. 2) He only popularized it in the US. The rest of the world was already building EVs.
  - iammisc 5y ago
    You shouldn't be so dismisive. Tesla's battery technology is superior. If indeed other countries were so into EVs, as you claim, one must wonder what is lacking in the other countries that all their years of expertise building EVs for the general public, they weren't able to replicate Tesla (which at the time was quite the ragged automotive startup) and its energy management system.
    - bildung 5y ago
      Teslas strong dominance in the EV market is quite US-specific it seems. E.G. in France Renault sold more cars, and Peugeot is head to head with Tesla. In Germany VW sold multiple times as much as Tesla. In China BYD sold more than Tesla etc. (all BEV, not plugin hybrids).
      - iammisc 5y ago
        What happens in the us tends to spill out elsewhere .
  - adventured 5y ago
    > He didn't start Tesla. A meaningless correction given the relatively early date in Tesla's history that Musk took control of the company, the fact that he substantially changed the trajectory of the company for the better and was the primary reason it was able to survive financially to be here today. The present incarnation of Tesla was clearly founded by Musk. It's quite well known that Musk didn't technically found Tesla. > He only popularized it in the US. The rest of the world was already building EVs. The rest of the world was not already building EVs. That's plain false. The rest of the world is still not mass producing EVs, 18 years later. One look at EV sales vs ICE sales reveals that story. There was Nissan and there was Tesla doing serious scale EV manufacturing in the early days of Tesla. That's it. All you have to do is go back and look at the best selling EVs in the automotive industry at the time the Model S launched into manufacturing. Global automotive EV sales by vehicle were still largely measured in the low thousands of units circa 2012, a decade after Tesla's founding. That was the year the industry finally started its ongoing upward trajectory, with the Volt moving 31k units and the Leaf moving 26k units.
DesiLurker 5y ago
maybe its to ensure the compatibility with supercharger network, afterall tesla has the biggest charging infra out there.

Because it’s Musk. That alone is enough for a headline that drives clicks. (Whether that’s a good thing or not, I’m not commenting on)

h2odragon 5y ago

Let's say that tesla and VW announce, next month; a new "Quick Swap Standard for Vehicle Batteries" and EV's suddenly become refillable at service stations. That would be a market mover in many senses. Of course such a thing would be sane; so there's no chance of anything like it happening.

ianai 5y ago
Especially if it meant the batteries were themselves more easily serviceable. Making batteries less a part of a car and more like a durable good like a keg could have serious economies of scale.
postingawayonhn 5y ago
Tesla already tried battery swapping. Technically it is possible but there are some logistical issues and it's not cost competitive with fast charging.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

It validates his domain knowledge and management style. VW brought him in to be critical of how they operate and why they’re behind. It is signal when management brings in the competitor’s CEO to tell you what you’re doing wrong.

bell-cot 5y ago
Yes...but it sounds to me mostly like a "change fast or die" signal to VW's hidebound and sclerotic executives.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Yes, exactly this. Lot of dead wood to be cleaned out over the next decade across legacy automakers.
bildung 5y ago
It isn't like VW is much behind Tesla in EV sales: 171k BEV plus 171k PHEV vs. 386k for Tesla in H1 2021, and VW had faster EV growth than Tesla compared to last year. I suspect this is more about interoperability, e.g. a charging station deal or something similar. VW: https://insideevs.com/news/521666/volkswagen-group-sales-plugins-2021q2/ https://insideevs.com/news/521666/volkswagen-group-sales-plu... Tesla: https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-vehicle-deliveries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-v...
- postingawayonhn 5y ago
  Tesla has already said it will open the Supercharger network. VW's network (Electrify America/Ionity) has always been open.
  - bildung 5y ago
    Yes I meant more like e.g. a VW charging flatrate that also applies when using Teslas network as a VW owner. In any case this is pure speculation.
- adventured 5y ago
  VW is a far larger company, including when it comes to sales networks, distribution networks, and manufacturing. If there is any scenario - looking out a decade or so - where they don't always outsell Tesla in EVs, it means a horrible disaster has befallen VW as an operating business. Given the size of the global automotive industry and the major players, most of them will end up outselling Tesla in EVs. It's an inevitability. And it says nothing inherently about who the best EV makers are (that goes for Tesla as well). Plenty of mediocre vehicles get sold in volume every year (just look at the garbage sedans GM and Ford produced for a couple of decades).

twistedpair 5y ago

How often does the CEO of one company address management of its biggest competitor? How often can you even get said CEOs to public acknowledge the name of their competitors? Elon started Tesla to bring about the EV revolution. He's not throwing dust in the face of the competition, but rather telling them how to catch up, because he wants their joint goal to be realized: ubiquitous EVs.

Johnyma22 5y ago
"Elon started Tesla to bring about the EV revolution." -- Nope. 1) He didn't start Tesla. 2) He only popularized it in the US. The rest of the world was already building EVs.
- iammisc 5y ago
  You shouldn't be so dismisive. Tesla's battery technology is superior. If indeed other countries were so into EVs, as you claim, one must wonder what is lacking in the other countries that all their years of expertise building EVs for the general public, they weren't able to replicate Tesla (which at the time was quite the ragged automotive startup) and its energy management system.
  - bildung 5y ago
    Teslas strong dominance in the EV market is quite US-specific it seems. E.G. in France Renault sold more cars, and Peugeot is head to head with Tesla. In Germany VW sold multiple times as much as Tesla. In China BYD sold more than Tesla etc. (all BEV, not plugin hybrids).
    - iammisc 5y ago
      What happens in the us tends to spill out elsewhere .
- adventured 5y ago
  > He didn't start Tesla. A meaningless correction given the relatively early date in Tesla's history that Musk took control of the company, the fact that he substantially changed the trajectory of the company for the better and was the primary reason it was able to survive financially to be here today. The present incarnation of Tesla was clearly founded by Musk. It's quite well known that Musk didn't technically found Tesla. > He only popularized it in the US. The rest of the world was already building EVs. The rest of the world was not already building EVs. That's plain false. The rest of the world is still not mass producing EVs, 18 years later. One look at EV sales vs ICE sales reveals that story. There was Nissan and there was Tesla doing serious scale EV manufacturing in the early days of Tesla. That's it. All you have to do is go back and look at the best selling EVs in the automotive industry at the time the Model S launched into manufacturing. Global automotive EV sales by vehicle were still largely measured in the low thousands of units circa 2012, a decade after Tesla's founding. That was the year the industry finally started its ongoing upward trajectory, with the Volt moving 31k units and the Leaf moving 26k units.

DesiLurker 5y ago

maybe its to ensure the compatibility with supercharger network, afterall tesla has the biggest charging infra out there.