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Canon sued for disabling scanner when printers run out of ink
- hyperstar 5y agoAny recommendations for printers or scanners without wifi that work on linux without unfree software?
- tonyedgecombe 5y agoIn general multi-function printers tend to be a bit crap even without these sort of shenanigans. Most people would be better off buying the appropriate device for each function.
- egberts1 5y agoBrothers LaserJet. No malware, no adware, no funky drivers; just colored, WiFi, LP-protocol, multi-tray PCL and PS support. Best thing since sliced bread.
- quickthrower2 5y agoBrother sells overpriced refills but there are off brand replacements about half the price. They also report ink run out on starter cartridges when it hasn’t. I think the only ethical printers are 3D ones.
- okl 5y agoSee my tip here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28889001 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28889001 Vigorously shaking the cartridge might also help sometimes. And regarding starter cartridges, you might need a reset gear: https://cartridgeamerica.com/ctg/brother-toner-chips.php https://cartridgeamerica.com/ctg/brother-toner-chips.php
- int_19h 5y agoHave you tried resetting the counter? The procedure is different on different models, but it goes something like this: https://www.inkhub.com.au/ink/brother-mfc-l3750cdw-toner-reset https://www.inkhub.com.au/ink/brother-mfc-l3750cdw-toner-res...
- aesh2Xa1 5y agoRecent firmware updates have disabled this workaround. Brother has joined the malfeasance club.
- shadilay 5y agoWhen did they do this? I reset my cartidge last year.
- quickthrower2 5y agoI have a mechanical mod to do that … but point still stands the default isn’t good.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago> no funky drivers Even on Linux?
- tyfon 5y agoCan't speak for OPs printer but my brother just uses IPP and a PPD definition file, all supported out of the box with cups.
- xfalcox 5y agoYes and it works out if the box in any modern distro.
- pnutjam 5y agoso, anything but redhat?
- ineedtosleep 5y agoBrother printers, from my experience, will just work automatically -- depending on your distro. If you need drivers, they do have a Linux installer as well. I've used the installer before and definitely not even a fraction as scummy as Canon/HP driver installs.
- formerly_proven 5y agoThese understand standard PCL (and even PDF, somewhat) - you really only need to point CUPS at the printer's IP and tell it what the page size is.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- heavyset_go 5y agoPretty much every printer released since 2010 has IPP Everywhere support, which allows for driverless printing on any platform including Linux.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
- shostack 5y agoYou know a market is bad when a company can lead the space simply with the platform of "we won't scam you."
- ouid 5y agoKinda sounds like the whole economy though.
- tonyedgecombe 5y agoIn some ways we bring it on ourselves by being such cheapskates. People post reviews in the app stores because they think $2 is expensive for an app then wonder why they end up with free software that sells their private data to the highest bidder.
- pdimitar 5y agoI never had a problem paying for good software. The issue is that the paid software very often isn't better, that's why many people started gravitating towards the free apps, me included. Nobody likes being scammed even if it's just for $2.
- tonyedgecombe 5y agoTake a look at any high quality non-free product and you will see reviews complaining about the price. This isn't about not wanting to be scammed, this is about people wanting something for nothing.
- ouid 5y agoIt's not an "either/or" situation, apps compete on price and that's just not where they make their money, largely.
- maccolgan 5y agoAnd then they overlook the actually good (real) free software.
- tempfs 5y agoAnother vote for Brother's Laser printers. Love mine, cheap, reliable and works on Linux without a hitch.
- odiroot 5y agoI am also in the Brother laser club. Don't know anyone having any printing problems with it. The new ones are super quiet too. They only tend to be a bit picky about the WiFi networks, so better to use with a cable.
- egberts1 5y agoMmmmm, that’s partially true. Their IPP protocol however just rocks by Ethernet wire.
- foofoo4u 5y agoSame here. Brother is the only printer brand I have used thus far that doesn't feel like its trying to scam me for my money.
- kqr2 5y agoDon't the recent Brother printers require a chip id for toner cartridges? I believe you can transfer the chips but it still seems user unfriendly.
- okl 5y agoNot aware of that. There seems to be a very old cartridge model that has a chip. Do you any link/source?
- kqr2 5y agoFor example: https://support.ldproducts.com/en_us/how-do-i-transfer-the-chip-to-my-diy-compatible-brother-tn-760-toner-cartridge-B1NvQYkIP https://support.ldproducts.com/en_us/how-do-i-transfer-the-c...
- jacquesm 5y agoEbay: used 4 series. It'll be a heirloom.
- stephbu 5y agoTBH this… Not one of these consumer printer businesses is going to survive commoditization of their now-primary source of consumer revenue - ink (the printer is just a loss-leading on-ramp to that business). These suicide-pills are the last gasps of a dying business model. Businesses don’t tolerate such shenanigans, but you and I will pay the price for doing so.
- b112 5y agoPeople have been buying 3rd party toner and ink for printers, for 30+ years. And before that, 3rd party ink and ribbons, for dot matrix printers. I agree that the consumer print business has gone down a strange path, bit this sort stuff has been going on forever. EG, printers purposefully wasting ink, I recall 20+ years ago.
- gpsx 5y agoI've had one of these forever. Great purchase. (I am sure it still works great but I never print anything anymore.)
- int_19h 5y agoI have a Brother MFC that has been working for ~10 years now. No problems using third party toner. One thing I did notice, though, is that it will start complaining and bugging you about replacing the toner before it actually runs out. There's a well-known way to reset that check, though, allowing you to print until it actually runs out.
- perl4ever 5y agoIs that like a Canon Xerox?
- rstuart4133 5y ago> Brothers LaserJet. No malware, no adware, no funky drivers; just colored, WiFi, LP-protocol, multi-tray PCL and PS support. This is all true, but it seems lasers have had their day for the occasional use printer. We have an Epson EcoTank, and all manufacturers have equivalents. The hardware has been absolutely flawless - 12k pages of ink in the box, not a single jam after 10k pages, ink is something like $20 for 10k pages and child could refill the think without making a mess. They make you pay for the privilege of not nickel and diming you after buying it by charging at least $200 more upfront, but I'd take that any day. But, for Epson at least, the simplicity of pcl6 / ps isn't there. You have to use their drivers, which often only exist for Windows. That shouldn't happen because they support "driverless printing", which is really just another printing format that supplants pcl6 / ps. They all support "driverless printing" because they need to check the "print from mobile" tick box, and they can only get it by supporting this new format. In theory, this should be great for open source because this new format started life as the internal format used by CUPS called "CUPS Raster" [0]. It was then taken up by some mob called the "Printer Working Group", made more device independent, and renamed "PWG Raster", which CUPS supports. In practice, so far, I've never had the joy of seeing a driverless printer to work with CUPS - despite the fact that phones do work with the printers. It needs more time in the oven, I guess. Mindboggling. Here we are, after 30 years of trying to come up with standard way of doing the apparently simple job of telling a printer how to put ink on paper, and we still need more time in the oven. Unbelievable. [0] https://www.cups.org/doc/api-raster.html https://www.cups.org/doc/api-raster.html
- PeterStuer 5y agoXerox does the same. I have a Workcenter 6605 that would still be a perfect greyscale multifunctional but can do nothing as the Yellow toner check can not be passed and a repair costs more than a new printer.
- kazinator 5y agoArticle: > the printer ran out of ink Quite wrong! Should say: "a count-down chip in just one half-full cartridge started sending an empty indication signal to the printer".
- bryanrasmussen 5y agoDo Canon printers in the EU have this problem? I would think customers would be able to return them as defective.
- gigatexal 5y agoCan’t think of a more anti-customer move on Canon’s part.
- laurent92 5y agoAt one point, Canon was the good pupil of printers-scanners, worked for 12 years, cheap at purchase, ink expensive like everywhere else, driver for CUPS (Linux) and not much call-home in Mac drivers. I’m sad if Canon reverted its game for anti-buyer shenanigans.
- londons_explore 5y agoI'd be interested to know if this was intentional. I can very much see that the all-in-one device has some "initializeHardware()" function that tests and sets up all the internal components, which probably requires ink to run (firing an ink jet as part of the initialization with no ink present usually burns some ink and it'll permanently clog with carbon deposits). Likewise, I suspect if the light bulb in the scanner was faulty, it wouldn't print. Or if the chip controlling the fax functions was unresponsive, it may not scan, copy or print. Designing a device which can self test every component, and then have a matrix of exactly which components must be present and working to do each function is very possible... but it's extra engineering effort, extra testing, and an extra source of bugs. For example, if an ink cartridge is missing, the weight of the carriage will be different, which will need different motor control parameters to ensure the movement speed is suitable (they're DC motors, so require quite complex control algorithms to move at a close-to-constant rate across the page). Overall, it might not be Canon management requiring this behaviour, but rather the engineering teams deciding that all these corner cases are not worth the effort of supporting.
- wly_cdgr 5y agoThe reasons don't matter as it's absolutely unacceptable user experience that breaks a major implicit product promise. I get that engineers may be too people-stupid to understand that it's a non-negotiable blocker, but that's why you employ UX designers
- mthoms 5y agoPrinter companies have long lost their right to getting the benefit of the doubt. At any rate, if your theory is correct then they are knowingly selling a defective product. Using the scanner is not a “corner case”, it’s one of the devices’ primary functions.
- misnome 5y agoYes, clearly this is just a bug that will be fixed as soon as they are made aware of it in 2016
- LordAtlas 5y agoFrom the article: "Since at least 2016, other customers have contacted Canon about this exact problem [1, 2] and were told by support agents that ink cartridges must be installed and contain ink to use the printer's features, as shown by the agent's response below." I'm inclined towards malice and not incompetence.
- Cyder 5y agoWe need an open source printer
- Frenchgeek 5y agoIn terms of printers simple enough to be made yourself, there"s always the BT100... But it was made to be cheap, not good.
- abecedarius 5y agoKragen is right that we need hackers working on building up our hardware capabilities in general. The free software movement started in an era of relatively open hardware when that seemed less of a priority. Admittedly I haven't done anything myself, though I admire those who have.
- marcodiego 5y agoActually, they don't need to be opensource. Having free firmware or being a simple machine to obey is enough. There are good printers listed on h-node. People mock fsf ryf certification but I think it is very much valid.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago> Having free firmware What good is free software when manufacturers can just require the firmware to be signed, thereby disallowing any and all modifications? We'll never be truly free until we can manufacture this hardware at home, just like we can make our own software at home.
- bombcar 5y agoAmusingly enough I believe it was esr’s rant on printers that started CUPS.
- martinhath 5y agoSee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman#Events_leading_to_GNU https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman#Events_leadin...
- 5y ago
- marcodiego 5y agoHi Canon! Thanks from increasing my list of examples why people should no be so condescending of proprietary firmware.
- carbocation 5y agoI don't think condescending is the right word here. Can't be sure without knowing your intent, but do you mean something like "should not be so accepting of proprietary firmware"?
- marcodiego 5y agoYes.
- slim 5y agoCondescending is used when you describe someone who thinks he is superior to others.
- marcodiego 5y agoTIL! False cognate. I'm not a native speaker. In Portuguese there is the term "condescendente" which means "indulgent, one who doesn't imposes discipline". What is the equivalent term in English?
- b0afc375b5 5y agoGreedy, perhaps?
- SAI_Peregrinus 5y agoConsiderate or Accepting both work in English.
- mixmastamyk 5y agoI’d use accepting, though it is bland. Trusting might work as well.
- lokimedes 5y agoMy HP inkjet will not print any color or black if the “photo black” cartridge is removed. I consider this a similar “greed move” by HP.
- jerf 5y agoDoes your printer have two separate "black" and "photo black" cartridges?
- lokimedes 5y agoYep, and I am still (after 7 years) working out what the difference is. Photos come out just fine without any ink in the photo cartridge, photo paper is a must though.
- throwanem 5y agoI'd guess "photo black" is a higher-contrast dye, and would wonder if BW exposures printed with and without it come out with the same dynamic range.
- elliekelly 5y agoThe water dispenser on my fridge stops working if it decides the filter needs to be replaced. I get about ten days between the “new filter” light and when it stops working with the beeping and blinking getting progressively more annoying. Oddly enough the ice dispenser (which also uses the filter) continues to function. So it’s not a safety issue and someone apparently decided consumers would tolerate the inconvenience of no filtered water but not the inconvenience of no ice. It’s a slight improvement over my last fridge which used DRM to make sure I only used their (way more expensive) branded filters.
- bombcar 5y agoYou can sometimes replace the filter (take the old one out and put it back in) and then reset the timer to get more water.
- 5y ago
- aboringusername 5y agoTo me it is a reminder that all cornerstones of society are entangled in this battle for rights and freedoms, others include Sideloading on iOS, alternative app stores etc Farmers getting access to diagnostics for their tractors Not having to buy subscription-ink (looking at HP here...) Standardized charging systems (USB-C) over proprietary cables like Lightning. Amazon fighting the definition of a library - they mostly stock books and have a weaker digital loaning system, Amazon has a vested interest here. I'm not sure why - as a global species - there's not more effort to tighten up the rules in this regard. We know business are user-hostile when considering greater profits and we see this daily, yet only now does the EU consider, in another 3 years, that a single cable might be a good idea to reduce waste. We really need more open access to the hardware and software of products on the market, and certain behaviors should not just be illegal, but require a maximum month-long turnaround to producing a commit that fixes the problem or face automatic daily fines until it is fixed and rolled out to all customers. Seriously, I suspect this could be fixed by most people on this forum very quickly.
- AwaAwa 5y agoAren't those all problems that need legal remedies first and foremost? I'm not sure if most people here are in the relevant professions.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago> I'm not sure why - as a global species - there's not more effort to tighten up the rules in this regard. Lobbying. These industries are worth billions of dollars. They can afford lobbyists who will go to politicians and influence the law making process. They essentially buy the laws that they want. Copyright duration is essentially infinite now thanks to these guys. Also illegal to reverse engineer thanks to these guys. Billion dollar corporations protecting their own interests at the expense of the public's interests. Such a nice democracy we live under.
- NAG3LT 5y agoNot just now - EU has pushed for a common phone charger previously and most manufacturers went with Micro-USB at the time, except Apple. Now, EU is just pushing that further with less loopholes. As for the time between adoption and enforcement - there has to be reasonable time given between for everybody to adjust to the new regulation.
- mensetmanusman 5y agoFor some reason I enabled the ‘auto refill’ on my new canon printer because that is what our office did (somehow). Don’t do that: it kept making purchases because it didn’t receive the ink as fast as it expected due to supply chain issues. It took a long time for Canon to cancel the orders that had never left the factory and give our hundreds of dollars back. It’s a fun story at least!
- netcan 5y agoThere's an onion article in there somewhere. Honestly, giving a money grubbing printer a credit card and ordering powers might make a decent analogy to parts of the supply chain issues at large.
- TeMPOraL 5y agoYup. I mean, I've heard HP has some silly "ink as a service" program, but honestly, giving credit card details to a printer? That sounds extremely unwise (and the fact it's even possible says something about the world we live in, and not nice things).
- microtherion 5y agoIt's a precursor to the dreaded Paperclip Maximizer.
- Igelau 5y agoDeploy the hypnodrones.
- jonnycomputer 5y agoI'm increasingly getting irritated by the feeling that I don't actually own or control the hardware I purchase.
- amelius 5y agoThat's why I buy hardware that starts with "i" in its name. That way, I know that "I" am the owner and "I" am in complete control.
- sahkopoyta 5y agohave you tried fixing your i-devices? I would not call it complete control if seemingly unrelated parts stop working after replacing some part yourself
- amenod 5y agoI think GP was being sarcastic.
- jonnycomputer 5y agoSo this morning I noticed that the LEDs were on on the computer I built even after I shut it down. That's how it works by default, but I didn't like it, so changed the setting in the BIOS. I have to think that something reset back to the defaults, and I'm guessing Windows 10? I built it so I know it, but I guess I still don't own it. And don't get me started on how Windows 10 never goes to sleep like it should. Maybe I'm curmudgeonly, but I'm tired of things I choose being changed on me, things I own be used to profit on me, things I use to spy on me. And its not just software and hardware. For example, I bank at X, but they've merged with another bank and are becoming Y. So now different website, different checks, different name, etc. and for what? for a line on some CEOs resume. Similar when I make a loan and the loan is sold to someone else, and my payment processing routine has to change to accommodate someone else's profit-making deal.
- JasonFruit 5y ago
- rado 5y agoHello Epson
- alerighi 5y agoI stopped buying inkjet printers. They are a scam, the ink costs a fortune and they are built as cheap as they can, meaning that they will break and you have to throw them away because they are impossible to repair, they are slow and when you need them they don't work because they were not used for too much time. After having 5 broken printers in the garage I said enough, that is a useless waste, and invested some money in a mid range laser printer (only b/w, but I don't need to print in color anyway) that doesn't give me any problem, and with a toner that costs 10$ on Amazon (not original, but who cares?) I print 2000 pages. That means that in 5 years that I own it I only changed it 2 times. I really don't see a reason for inkjet printers to exist, I hope they will disappear from the market.
- colanderman 5y agoCareful with off-brand toner. The toner particles are often jagged rather than smooth, which can damage the fuser roller, requiring replacement. This happened to me after a few years of using off-brand toner. I was able to perform the repair myself, and granted the cost wasn't as much as buying on-brand toner, but it was challenging (lots of delicate parts) and I don't wish to repeat the experience.
- EvanAnderson 5y agoThe bigger problem I've seen w/ off-brand toner are refilled cartridges that are poorly plugged and end up leaking toner all over the inside of the printer. Toner is a nightmare to clean up, and once you get toner deep into the nooks and crannies of a printer you'll never get clean paper output again.
- klodolph 5y agoThe exception is if you print photos. There’s not really a good alternative to inkjet, except RA-4, which is out of reach for consumers.
- evgen 5y agoIf you print photos yourself then you are doing it wrong. Send them to a service that actually has a photo printer that is not a piece of shit and you will find your prints actually lasting longer than the ink cartridge you used to print them with.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- osrec 5y agoDamn the need for recurring revenue. It makes us make bad things that eat away at our own resources. I wished there was an alternative payment model, where everything is perhaps paid off over time. If the product fails during the specified time period, the payments stop. It would hopefully give the companies some sort of recurring revenue, while incentivising them to build something that lasts and not play dirty tricks on the consumer.
- MichaelZuo 5y agoMandatory service contracts are common for commercial equipment. It guarantees recurring revenue and guarantees the customer will have support the next day (or same day sometimes) if anything happens. Retail customers simply pick the cheapest thing though that satisfies their needs, most of the time. It’s been the same story since the first retail shop I imagine.
- starky 5y agoCompanies also love recurring revenue because it is far easier to convince finance once to pay a modest ongoing monthly fee, than it is to go back to them every few years to get approval to spend a large chunk of money the next version of something.
- pid-1 5y agoI guess they could rent printers.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago> Damn the need for recurring revenue. They'd still be thriving under an honest business model. There is no need for any of this. There is only greed.
- progbits 5y agoThe problem is nobody cares about long term sustainable growth. Execs come and go and want a nice fat bonus now. Shareholders will jump ship to a different company that does this and manages to go more up-and-to-the-right. This bubbles down the whole chain - it is the PMs and teams who push for change, redesign etc who get promoted, not the ones who just continue making a good product that will last. You don't have anyone who sticks around for many years and is passionate about the problem and doing the right thing. And even if you do, in a public company they get pushed out by CEO who promises more immediate growth.
- wly_cdgr 5y agoImagine willingly working for a company that does this. Every employee of Canon should be ashamed of themselves
- k8sToGo 5y agoAh yes. The lady at the front office surley has had any say in this.
- MathMonkeyMan 5y agoIf you have the luxury of protesting with your job selection (as many do), then this is fine. Isn't it a slippery slope, though? I'd venture to guess almost any largish company has done something inexcusable by someone's reasonable standard. Should be all be ashamed for being members of the worker society?
- wly_cdgr 5y agoIf you work for a company that does things that you yourself believe to be wrong then yes, you should be ashamed. And everyone should believe that what Canon is doing is wrong
- k8sToGo 5y agoI bought a 99 bucks HP printer many years ago and signed up for HP instant ink. I have been printing for free basically since then since I print less than 15 pages a month. Don't even have to worry about the ink anymore as they send it automatically when it is near empty. There are a few downsides. They count per page basis. So even if you print only one letter, it counts against you. When you have to print a lot, then you have to buy in the pack of 10 pages. But overall still cheaper for me than to buy ink at all.
- sedatk 5y agoGood luck until you get "print head needs replacement" error, and realize that for some reason it's more expensive than the printer itself.
- k8sToGo 5y agoThanks, but I have been using this combo for 4 years now and it's working just fine for me.
- pxx 5y agoDidn't they try rescinding this deal? https://www.consumerreports.org/printers/hp-ends-free-ink-for-life-a3792536732/ https://www.consumerreports.org/printers/hp-ends-free-ink-fo... Regardless, the "free subscription" is no longer a thing that is available for purchase. It also doesn't seem cost effective, given the miniscule print quota; a single laser printer toner cartridge yields more than a decade of prints if you were able to somehow always hit exactly 15 pages a month.
- k8sToGo 5y agoI print less than 15 pages per month, and when I printed more it was a few bucks. So still a lot cheaper.
- jsilence 5y agoNot to be meant snarky, but I think the office world should strive to print much less at all. Working at a University it is mind boggling to me how much paper is waster because someone internally decided they need a real signature. Not all my colleagues are savyy enough to paste a scanned signature into a pdf.
- bootlooped 5y agoI had a networking class in a computer lab where there was an unmetered printer. Almost all student accessible printers on campus cost money to use; I can only guess this slipped through the cracks somehow. Every day some idiot would be printing off entire power point presentations for all the lectures she was in and who knows what else. The printer would be running for the first half the class. Disgusting wastefulness.
- chaoskanzlerin 5y agoThere's plenty of jurisdictions where "pasting a scanned signature into a pdf" doesn't produce a legally valid signature. Germany requires some signing software for pdfs - though printed-signed-scanned documents are also legally valid signatures
- vlovich123 5y agoShow me someone who can tell the difference between pasting a signature in a pdf vs printed-signed-scanned? There was a legislature in America that tried to define pi as 3 so irrational laws are not surprising.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jackson1442 5y agoAside the point but I can generally tell. With PDF signatures they’re either too smooth on the lines (that’s what mine is) or there’s some artifacting on the signature.
- 5y ago
- syntheticnature 5y agoI ran into this when going to scan paperwork for my taxes a few years back. Then, a year later, the printer developed some sort of error on initialization of the print head... and it would refuse to scan on that basis, even though the scanner mechanism was completely separate and scanning UI still came up. It turned out there already was a class-action for this second issue, except my Canon hadn't manifested the issue earlier and so no settlement for me. Got a B&W Brother Laser with a simple flatbed scanner built-in. Not perfect, but covers the occasional need to print something out short-notice, and scans well enough for the main needs I have there. Some folks say just use services for printing, and there is some validity to that, but it's nice to be able to quickly print up a reference sheet or label without planning ahead.
- bad_username 5y agoIf you don't need frequent scanning of multi-page documents, scanner apps for smartphones do stunningly good job of creating PDF document scans using the camera.
- WarOnPrivacy 5y ago> Got a B&W Brother Laser with a simple flatbed scanner built-in. Since early 2000s: It's been mostly Brother lasers for my small biz clients. Brother was terrible before 2000, became cheap/reliable and stayed that way. I placed a few this year.
- aqibgatoo 5y agoI am happy that finally somebody is suing a printer manufacturer.
- oxyboy 5y agoHonestly for me the HP instant ink plan works quite well. The lowest tier is 99 cents a month and gets me 15 pages which are sufficient. Certain months I might go over my allotment but that’s not breaking the bank. Their cartridges run really long as well - haven’t needed a new one in 2 years.
- netcan 5y agoSomething very dystopian about these kinds of stories. Wringing the market like a wet mop. A limping business model for a piece of home equipment built on low quality, adware and gimmicky nonsense. .. winning the race to the bottom. Ultimately, there's always a market for value but there's also always a market for the cheapest possible thing. Is it possible to have a company today premised on the idea of making a decent, cheap printer?
- MPSimmons 5y agoIf the point of a class action lawsuit is to change behavior, $5m is not enough to bring it to the attention of the people who need to see it, in that organization.
- neilv 5y agoAs many techies will probably always say anytime inkjet product shenanigans come up: just buy a laser printer. And I now add: and don't let it connect to the Internet, and don't install proprietary drivers or software for it on your computers. Also, remember the names of companies doing sketchy things, and do your part to provide negative feedback when you can, and to give positive feedback to better companies. (Example: I've just moved away from the Apple product ecosystem, because Apple did one too many obnoxious things, and I'll also be pointing friends who ask to alternative solutions.)
- zeusk 5y agoWhat Apple alternatives have you been using?
- reayn 5y agoWould help if you could be more specific here but aside from hardware (macbook/iPhone) there's alternatives (not just competitive but also plain better ones) to just about every service Apple provides.
- burnished 5y agoThe person you replied to asked a question for specific details on what alternative to Apple products are being used. I think tis telling that each reply fails to answer.
- reayn 5y agoIt's not that I failed to answer, I simply asked the parent to be more specific. Unless you wanted me to write an exhaustive list of alternatives for everything Apple makes.
- burnished 5y agoYes, actually. I recognize that its a burden but thats part of the point I'm getting at - it is easy to tell people to switch, it is hard to give them good solid advice on how to go about doing so. And it isn't just you, its a trend I've noticed around these topics. People want others to make the jump but they don't want to hold anyone's hand while they do it.
- Jerry2 5y agoLast month, my friend's HP Laserjet Pro printer started flashing "SUPPLY PROBLEM" error message and wouldn't print anything. Apparently, all he did was update the firmware after a message popped up on the printer urging him to do so. Well, that firmware update included new DRM checks for non-HP toners. The printer would just refuse to work with 3rd party toner cartridges. I had to help him and had to find an old firmware and downgrade to an older one which didn't contain the DRM. The firmware didn't come from HP's website because they deleted all old versions so I downloaded the version off someone's Google Drive. Who knows if that FW contains something malicious. Also, I had to install Windows because old firmware update is a Windows program. You're SOL if you use macOS or Linux. This incident didn't make my friend go and buy $200+ worth of original toners like HP intended. All it did was make him anxious of updating anything and of using HP products and has wasted a lot of his and my time. He said he won't buy another HP printer again. If you want to learn more, search for "HP supply problem" with your fav search engine. Or see this link on HP support forums [1]. And don't update your printer's firmware if it's working fine... because who knows when they'll disable FW downgrade option and you'll be stuck with a DRMed printer. Edit: Just in case you found this comment through a search engine or this has affected you, I recommend downloading FW from this page [2]. It also has a list of affected HP Color LaserJet Pro printers (there's quite a few models.. the page lists 11 models). That blog also has a full saga of HP's shenanigans and their attempts to block aftermarket cartridges [3]. [1] https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Printing-Errors-or-Lights-Stuck-Print-Jobs/HP-Color-Laser-jet-Pro-MFP-M281CDW-quot-Supply-Problem-quot/td-p/7844016 https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Printing-Errors-or-Lights-Stuc... [2] https://borncity.com/win/2021/02/02/firmware-downgrade-for-hp-printer/ https://borncity.com/win/2021/02/02/firmware-downgrade-for-h... [3] https://borncity.com/win/2020/11/08/hp-firmware-update-for-ink-laser-printers-blocks-third-party-cartridges-nov-2020/ https://borncity.com/win/2020/11/08/hp-firmware-update-for-i...
- JFKKFJ 5y agoI let the cartridges that come with the printer dry out and use them to be able to scan without having to buy ink. I have a Canon MG2550.
- amelius 5y agoI'm looking for a cheap consumer printer with built-in bookbinding function. Does anyone have any good experiences to share?
- shoulderfake 5y agoPrinters are a terrible business period. But this kind of underhanded scumbaggery needs to be punished
- TheDudeMan 5y agoIt's almost like the printer companies want us to stop printing things.
- Ansil849 5y agoTo the engineers who design things like this: fuck you.
- starky 5y agoThe engineers know full well that this stuff is bullshit, but they aren't making a living unless they do what they are told. The problem is our society and the shareholders that demand maximal profit every quarter that result in the executives/board of companies aligning themselves to these anti-consumer tactics as it is the easiest way to ensure a consistent revenue base.
- Ansil849 5y agoSoftware engineers have career choices. We're not talking about a 'do evil shit or be unemployed' situation here.
- gerbilly 5y agoI was fortunate enough to buy a 1990s laser printer. Back then companies were still short sighted enough¹ to build them to last. It's an Apple Laserwiter 12/640PS. It's still chugging along today, with 64Mb of memory no less! [1]: Recurring revenue wise that is.
- kitsunesoba 5y agoI’m tempted to track down an old LaserWriter myself, those things don’t quit. Are you able to find toner for yours reliably?
- kevin_thibedeau 5y agoThey're the same guts as HP printers and it'd be easier to interface to one of those with a Jetdirect Ethernet card. Anything built before Fiorina tanked the company will be reliable. The later models will also have faster warm up times for the fuser.
- gerbilly 5y agoSo far so good on the Toner. I _think_ I heard that the guts were the same as an IBM printer, but I might be wrong on that.
- tonyedgecombe 5y agoI think it used a Canon print engine.
- mrtweetyhack 5y agoopensource printer
- squarefoot 5y agoIt simply hurts me that we have Open Source 3D printers but not 2D ones. Unfortunately the complexity required to go from one object in 2 hours to say 20 pages/minute makes any FOSS hardware approach impossible as of today.
- pbhjpbhj 5y agoFind a best in class printer from 20 years ago, all patents on it have expired: couldn't you just 'rip it off' excepting design elements that are non-functional? That would give a base to work from, I guess you start simplifying the hardware. Even if it used propriety cartridges at the start it would seem better than a commercial consumer-level printer as you could stop the 'you need all colours to print in plain black (K only)' and 'you can't scan without wasting ink getting the printer ready', etc.. ??
- flyinghamster 5y agoSo HP isn't the only one to do this, then. I had an HP all-in-one at work refuse to scan because it had expired the printhead. Just one more data point on "why I don't buy HP." Guess I have to add Canon to that list, too.
- system2 5y agoAnyone reading this, from a sysadmin: Go for brother. Ink or laser. No issues, never had a single problem in the last 10 years. Lexmark was okay for a while until their imaging units started crapping (700 series).
- buzzwords 5y agoI hope this article ranks high when people Google canon review.
- WalterBright 5y agoOne reason why my scanner and printer are different boxes. Upgrading one won't affect the other. Just like my stereo. It's the old fashioned kind, with separate components, all from different manufacturers.
- gonzo41 5y agoJeez, when I read about 'Big Printer' and The Printer Industrial complex all I ponder is why hasn't some startup devastated this industry with a reasonable printer and a reasonable relationship to users. The other thing I think about is that we must be in the twilight years of printers. Like 10-20 and they'll be mostly absent from homes and infrequent if at all present in most offices.
- da39a3ee 5y agoIf you live in a city you don't need a printer. Just go to an office store or whatever. Their printer will work, it won't cost much, and you'll probably appreciate the exercise.
- jbritton 5y agoI wonder what the payouts will be like if the case is won.
- advael 5y agoI don't mean to beat a dead horse, but when can we get some momentum behind repealing or ruling unconstitutional anti-subversion laws from the DMCA? It would be nice if this sort of thing goes to court and starts to challenge that law, but I don't think that's a likely outcome here, since the nominal case is about fraudulent advertising and no subversion attempt was really made. But it's exactly the kind of problem that the law creates and perpetuates indefinitely. It's been barely over 20 years and exploiting them has become the business model of giant swaths of our economy. The harm done to innovation, consumers, and probably honestly the productivity of the US as a whole has so massively dwarfed that of even the most pessimistic models of "piracy" and has reshaped our way of life for a generation. It's a bad law and it needs to die
- arwhatever 5y agoI personally believe that we need far better consumer protection laws in the U.S., in general. I'm certain that laws attempting to curb specific abuses such as with these printers will be like playing whack-a-mole, but perhaps after enough moles get whacked hard enough, the culture might start to change course. One can wish anyway.
- yawaramin 5y agoThe era of printers is over. Use PDF viewers to display and annotate documents. MacOS Preview app lets you add arbitrary text, drawings, shapes, and pretty passable signatures. For scanning, download the Microsoft Lens app for your phone, it works well. Stop buying personal printers. They're bad for the environment. We should make them a dead technology.
- teakettle42 5y agoNo. I’ll just keep printing documents for both reading and archival. I even have a comb binding machine so that I can assemble booklets of related published papers, which I rely on — in combination with the digital form — for my work. Sometimes it’s just more efficient to page through and find what you’re looking for in a physical document, and reserve my screens for other information. Furthermore, “bad for the environment” is an empty, thought terminating argument. Personal computers are bad for the environment, and you’re even worse for the environment, but that’s not an argument for eliminating computers or you.
- yawaramin 5y agoIt's a matter of tradeoffs. I may be bad for the environment, but I'm a human being and have the right to exist. A printer is an inanimate object and doesn't have the inherent right to exist. You don't compare humans and inanimate objects.