10 ms·

Pursue High-Quality Leisure

193 points by vitabenes 5y ago

analyst74 5y ago
I have a theory, all the "high quality" hobbies are challenging in one way or another, thus require some level of will power to push yourself to do it. If you've been pushing yourself hard at work all day, then you have likely depleted your will power. Passive activities become the only ones you feel like doing.
- boublepop 5y ago
  > Passive activities become the only ones you feel like doing. Very true. But changing your lifestyle to a high degree is about turning the activities that you like into these “passive activities” like going for a morning run doesn’t feel like something you need to mentally or even physically exert yourself to do for someone who does it regularly 4 times a week.
- aesyondu 5y ago
  After switching careers to software engineering, I find that I appreciate high intensity / action oriented video games less (DMC, Monster Hunter, etc.). My browser history is now filled with "chill or relaxing games", "games that don't need thinking" or something to that effect.
  - billfruit 5y ago
    My experience has been that if work is exhausting, then I turn to games that don't have much of narrative, but which rather on the mechanics. Like racing games, one does not have to think too much, but one has to be alert and focused on it.
    - pezezin 5y ago
      Doom Eternal was that kind of game for me. After a long day with another pointless meeting with the usual assholes, slaying demons left and right was almost therapeutic.
    - skydhash 5y ago
      Same, I have a bunch of games like Nier: Automata, Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice, Bloodborne, Control and I found that I can only play them on the weekend. After work, I can only play game like Dirt Rally, Trials Fusion and Apex Legends’ Arena. Where you don’t have to strategize that much and only rely on learnt reflexes. Anything that requires decisions or deciphering clues is impossible.
      - aweiland 5y ago
        You play Trials to relax? ;)
        skydhash 5y ago
        When you get better at this kind of technically challenging game, there is a kind of flow that happens when you try to get better at previous challenge. The thinking is very minimal as you are only observing where you can improve. And it's a good feeling when you have indeed improved.
  - Godel_unicode 5y ago
    Presenting an alternative perspective, I have a high pressure job that requires deep thought (I'm in infosec) and my hobbies are pretty much all about skill/intensity. No judgement if that's what you like, but I find chill/relaxing games to be boring and can't play them for very long without having to go find something more meaningful to do. I enjoy being alone with my thoughts, I just find low-stakes games to be a weird in-between area and while I know they're super popular I just don't get it. As a sibling comment says, ego depletion research is pretty low quality in terms of reproducibility. Anecdotally, I have never found it to be true for me.
    - sam0x17 5y ago
      Last time I worked in infosec, it was quite slow, depending on what you're doing. AFAIK you're either monitoring things, in which case it only gets interesting when there is an incident, and/or you're doing projects, but they are slow moving because they involve approvals, physical hardware, etc. If you're writing code all day I guarantee you'll feel drained.
      - Godel_unicode 5y ago
        As I said in the post you replied to, my job is high pressure and requires deep thought. My team writes a ton of code, and there's an on-call rotation where you're dealing with incidents and grooming training sets for our models. > ...I guarantee you'll feel drained. You'd lose that bet. Maybe you are, I however find writing code just as interesting and invigorating as I did over a decade ago in university. I do it at work, I do it in my free time both for purpose and for fun.
        sam0x17 5y ago
        I'm just saying that from experience, I highly doubt there is an infosec job where you have less free time than the average coder. If you have time for deep thinking about problems, you have the kind of time I'm talking about that is super rare _on average_ in the industry.
  - maddyboo 5y ago
    > chill and relax > don’t need thinking You seem to be seeking proxies for the effect of not thinking, putting your mind and body at ease, and letting go. Have you given meditation a try? Anecdotally, it can fulfill these needs in a way no other semi-conscious activity seems capable.
    - aesyondu 5y ago
      I started meditating when I was in university and have done it on and off since then. However, I've stopped a couple of months ago and haven't had the will to do it again. I find other activities more compelling, like reading everylayout or about rails performance.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- dend 5y ago
  Ego depletion as a concept has been challenging to prove, if at all: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.00568/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.0056... I agree that often certain hobbies require a push to get started. That initial barrier is what I found the hardest to overcome, but once you start going - it becomes easier and easier. Similar to how one can attempt to overcome moments of procrastination - you need to get started and push through initial discomfort.
  - grp000 5y ago
    I used to push paperwork and send out emails, sometimes analyzing drawings, but not actually use my brain too much as a construction project engineer. As a data engineer, it definitely feels more taxing on the mental side.
  - rolisz 5y ago
    I think it's more that after 8 exhausting hours, I don't have energy anymore for anything. The 8 exhausting hours would be a day full of meetings, after which my brain is a mush and doesn't work anymore.
    - VeninVidiaVicii 5y ago
      Yes and imagine an intense level of stress when your partner asks what kind of movie you want to watch. Because, your brain just cannot process a single new decision.
      - bredren 5y ago
        Consider keeping a list of media you want to watch for occasions like this. Exhausted or not, you’re probably more likely to come across something unexpectedly and write it down than remember them all and offer up something fitting from memory.
        scns 5y ago
        Well, the watchlist gets longer and when i want to watch something it is hard to choose.
- hyperpallium2 5y ago
  Even, predictable difficulty is key. Too easy and it's boring; too hard and it's frustrating. Suddenly, surprisingly difficult is so challenging it's the kind of thing that gets you riches and fame.
- louis8799 5y ago
  It's not like that at least when it comes to running. The more I run, the more will power I have for all the other stuffs.
  - andhuman 5y ago
    Unless you end up on the bathroom floor, having overexerted yourself. Be kind to yourself people.
- stevesimmons 5y ago
  > Passive activities become the only ones you feel like doing. That's not the case in my experience. After a full day managing teams, solving problems and coding, I find it "relaxing" to do a physically and mentally challenging instructor/coach-led activity. For me, that means swimming, water polo or other team sport, dance classes learning a complex choreography, etc. It's relaxing switching off the "I'm in charge" part of my brain, while still getting the flow and enjoyment of improving a skill, especially with others in a non-tech environment.
- chihuahua 5y ago
  That's not the case for me. After working on annoying software tasks all day, I like to do a 34-mile/2-hour bike ride. I do this same route very frequently. It's refreshing because it's so completely different from my job. In contrast, a lot of games feel like work - guess where you're supposed to go or how to solve a problem, fail due to some trivial mistake, retry many times.
- godDLL 5y ago
  Yes, yes, yes, and no. Not passive. Low starting effort. Mise en place. I have similarly found that all of my activities are not things you can do when you're recovering from food poisoning and have massive thick brain fog all day. So I got into gardening, cooking and then baking, improving my own work clothing and putting up shelves around the kitchen and house. And walking alone. Which is amazing, if you leave your phone at home.
itronitron 5y ago
Cleaning the carpets and floors is also a good way to fill the vacuum.
dainiusse 5y ago
The author doesn't have kids I guess :) that turns the world around. Especially if you have twins or more.
- Godel_unicode 5y ago
  I know lots of people who both have kids and engage in tons of the items on this list. One of the most active, well-read people I know is a mother of 5.
  - iman453 5y ago
    How does she manage? Any particular techniques you learned from her? :)
- WalterGR 5y ago
  Kids go to bed early. There’s time in evening.
  - quickthrower2 5y ago
    Yeah way too tired to do much between 9:30 and 10!
  - mderazon 5y ago
    They also tend to wake up early
  - deckiedan 5y ago
    Our 4 year old wakes up about 6am (give or take 45 minutes) and as soon as she knows I'm awake, wants to read, talk, play together. Our 7 year old gets to bed at 7:45 in the evening, which is early compared to his friends. All the time outside of work between 6am and 7:45 pm is dominated by them. In the nicest possible way - but it's full on. All the time. My wife and I are both very tired by 7:45pm, need some social / couple time, but have so little mental energy to do anything beyond chores / essentials that all pre kids hobbies are waaaaay deprioritised. Say we have friends over once a week, a date night once a week, a social / community engagement once a week, a rest evening, it's like 4 evenings (8pm until 10pm...) max available for anything - with brains like mush. Add in chores, finances, shopping, contacting relatives and others...
yuuu 5y ago
My hobby is putting spaces before bold tags. I also get the feeling that the upvotes on this are from blackhat SEO.
- vitabenes 5y ago
  Spaces fixed. Upvotes are regular, people are just interested in the topic.
elefanten 5y ago
What is even going on here? Scroll to the bottom and this low production self-help book (which looks like it should be happy to be free) has three tiers of pricing and subscription crap? This seems nutty.
didibus 5y ago
I've actually found video games is one of my high quality leisure, but only the single player or local multiplayer experiences. My low quality leisure are my consumption (or constant checking for new content or upvotes) of blogs, articles, news, social media posts of people that aren't my real close friends or family, and all of my online commenting, including this one. Probably also consuming things I didn't actually want to consume count as well, so like watching random things that Netflix recommended or just showed up on TV versus watching a movie I'm actually interested in and want to watch. This is same for randomly playing video games like say on GamePass (like trying a bunch of games quickly). I'm trying to cut a lot of that out, and instead focus on playing only the games that truly interest me, watching only the shows and movies that truly interest me, only the books I really want to read, etc. Once you cut it down to just that, you'll find you still have a ton of free time, and you'll slowly be forced to also take a walk, go for a bike ride, work on your hobby projects, call a friend, grab a coffee, do a workout, cook something from a recipe book, play with your kids, take your partner out on a date, or go to bed early, etc.
- vitabenes 5y ago
  Yes. High-quality games like Factorio or Machinarium are quite good fun. Also helps if a game is finite, not infinite. For example, while you can play Factorio endlessly, the rocket is the goal and it gets less fun once you've done all the things - which is good. You play it, you enjoy it, you move on. That kind of play is quite healthy.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bluehat974 5y ago
Tomorrow, when we will work less, have basic income, and have more leisure time, this type of list will be very important. Otherwise, we will be human in Wall E movie
2Gkashmiri 5y ago
Maybe you’ve been “online” for so long that you have no idea what to do when you’re not online. This hit too close to home. Ive been online almost everyday since 2004 so yeah.
- godDLL 5y ago
  What kind of planning would it take for you to have a detox week? Do you have to call someone, tell them you won't be answering the phone this week? Do you need to notify your employer, work something out for that week to only come in on Thursday?
  - 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
    i have never done that on my own volition. https://kashmirglacier.com/2019/12/16/internet-gag-kashmir-holds-first-slot-on-longest-internet-gag-worldwide/ https://kashmirglacier.com/2019/12/16/internet-gag-kashmir-h...
    - godDLL 5y ago
      Aha, got it. That is a terrible shame to be in that kind of situation, locally. But from the above I understand that you have done 4 months, and survived it? How about planning for it, and initiating it yourself? As in detox / vacation / self-time?
pech0rin 5y ago
Learning is not a leisure activity. I'm not saying it can't be fun or engaging or a great pastime but it requires as much focus if not more than work. It also requires constant attention (even if its in small amounts). It gives people a feeling of accomplishment and purpose but it is no way relaxing. I am sort of tired of these articles about procrastination, etc that equate like watching a movie and going to the gym or hiking. The activities aren't in the same realm at all. Basically shaming people for sitting around doing nothing with your brain off. I don't think you should be living your life like that all the time, but having an hour or two of straight mindlessness is not a bad thing. Pushing yourself to always be doing the activities you "should" do because some online guru says thats the right way to spend your time leads to burnout too.
- kqr 5y ago
  And to nobody's surprise, it turns out humans are different from each other. Learning is for me one of the highest forms of leisure. But I know not everyone feels that way.
- stavros 5y ago
  > Learning is not a leisure activity. I disagree with that. I agree with the rest of your comment, there's nothing wrong with turning your brain off for however long you want, but leisure doesn't have to mean "turning your brain off". I program for leisure because that's what I like to do.
  - nivenkos 5y ago
    Do you do it after working for 8 hours though? I sometimes do it on the weekend, mainly because then I can program in new and more interesting areas. But after work feels impossible, I just don't want to sit in front of the computer still.
    - stavros 5y ago
      Yeah, I'll regularly finish work and continue programming for a few more hours. I like it a lot. Not always, of course, but not rarely either.
quickthrower2 5y ago
Mild cfs has freed me from worry about these kinds of optimisations. Day on Reddit? All good.
avgcorrection 5y ago
Reminds me of an episode of Queer Eye For the Straight Guy. The guy had a mess of a house. Clutter everywhere. He had no style to speak of. Didn’t really seem interesting either. Of course the queer guys fixed things up for him. What was mentioned kind of in passing was that he worked two jobs. I don’t think the makeover was lasting.
a3_nm 5y ago
I think there are at least three notions of "high-quality" conflated in the article: - leisure which also satisfies longer-term goals (e.g., listening to an educational podcast, practicing a skill), vs leisure which is only pleasant in the moment - leisure that you had to make some deliberate effort to initiate and with a clear end time (e.g., going out, going to the movies) vs leisure which starts automatically and ends when it does (e.g., binge-watching) - leisure that gets you outdoors and/or with other people, vs leisure that doesn't And of course you can find many kinds of activities along these dimensions. Binge-reading Wikipedia can be instructive even if it's an impulsive behavior and indoors/alone. Sitting down to play a short video game and finish it in a few hours can be actively chosen fun even though it's indoors and only pleasant in the moment. Walking in nature can be pleasant and outdoors but not instructive. Ambient chatting with a friend can be social even if it's indoors and impulsive...
kstenerud 5y ago
Pro-tip: Don't try to optimize your leisure time. https://dilbert.com/strip/1997-07-25 https://dilbert.com/strip/1997-07-25
- jmrm 5y ago
  Pretty funny how today's Dilbert strip was about that :-) https://dilbert.com/strip/2021-10-18 https://dilbert.com/strip/2021-10-18
sysadm1n 5y ago
> he was scared of stopping playing video games and surfing the Internet For me it depends on the utility I get out of games. Minecraft is like Lego 2.0 and players often share custom maps they've built so there's a community there too. Minecraft is also hackable and I've seen many videos on Youtube of people creating exceptionally creative things with it. It's not just a time-sink: people derive pleasure out of sharing their creativity with the world - something difficult to do with Lego or board-games. As for surfing the Internet: well yes the Internet can be an endless rabbithole if you let it. I've stopped treating it as a rabbithole though, and casually glance at the Hackernews frontpage in the morning, see what tools / services / products I can leverage going forward, then close the tab, after bookmarking a link or two which I will revisit later when I'm feeling creative. Same for Reddit, Twitter etc You can either scroll mindfully or scroll mindlessly. It's your choice.
silhardt 5y ago
I've been seeing a lot of these sorts of articles recently (time online is ruining your life; here are 17 ways to disconnect), and I have to say I simply reject the premise. Once again, it's binary thinking creeping in and human brains generally being far more receptive to arguments along the lines of "this technology/concept/ideology/whatever is bad and you should reject it" over ones that say "this technology/concept/ideology/whatever is a tool and its value is dependent on how its used and when it's applied". I've seen the binary thinking problem applied to the internet/online life quite a bit recently, and it bothers me because growing up my experiences of the internet/web were almost overwhelmingly positive, constructive, and developmental in nature. It was instrumental in my development as a person because it's a tool that allows you to read constantly. For people with lots of innate curiosity there really is nothing more powerful than that. The encroachment of the social media/video streaming/adtech companies into the space doesn't negate that use case, so I'm extremely hesitant to say if everyone would just unplug the world would magically be better.
- whytaka 5y ago
  This may seem snarky but you should apply similar thinking to the article itself. It might be written in a certain but you don’t have to read it as it’s intended. I’ve learned, grown, and profited a lot around screens but now I’m looking for hobbies outside screens. While I reject the premise that time spent looking at screens are wasted, this article may help with finding my next hobby.
- suketk 5y ago
  While I agree that completely "unplugging" is not the ideal solution, doing so occasionally helps you understand how to use technology intentionally (i.e as a tool, not an escape). You realize what you miss and what you don't, which allows you to reallocate your usage. What's missing for most people is some structured way to reflect about this, so I created a free* accountability group program [0] that helps them do this alongside others who want to use technology in a healthy way. (Very open to feedback!) [0] https://themoai.org/intentional-technology https://themoai.org/intentional-technology * Free to join, but requires a credit card to enforce financial accountability - we donate money to charity (not us) on your behalf if you don't complete the program. Time commitment is only 15 min/week.
giantg2 5y ago
How is consuming some of these other digital products better than "surfing" the internet? Most of the time I'm learning things on the internet. It also helps one find new hobbies. For example, I've been researching ultralight aircraft recently. I dont think I'll actually get one due to price, storage, spouse, etc. But it's fun to learn about.
greenail 5y ago
"meet new people" is missing from the list. I wonder how diverse a 20-something's circle is these days vs 20 years ago. I used to talk to as many different people as I could: motor cycle mechanics, Johns Hopkins post docs, NSA engineers, actors, set dressers, woodworkers, painters, business owners. Does the opportunity to get out of your "social bubble" still exist today?
- qolop 5y ago
  It doesn't, for me. I'm 20 something and work from home. I want to fix this but don't know how to. The pandemic has complicated things even more. :(
- jmrm 5y ago
  Sincerely, as a person between 25 to 35 years old, i don't know how to get out my social bubble outside friends, family, or co-workers instroducing me new people, specially as an introverted and "interested in things"[1] kind of person. [1]: Here I'm talking about the spectrum between those who are interested in other people and other who are interested in things.
ArtWomb 5y ago
I'd add a scientific bent to those pursuits, if you are so inclined. Get into the habits of thinking like a naturist in the Age of Humboldt vein. A local library, for example, recently held a "DIY Telescope" night. And I always get personally nostalgic whenever I see a young child of today heading out to the fields to test an Estes Rocket ;)
motohagiography 5y ago
We need a better popular understanding of "hobbies," because it conflates a bunch of highly sophisticated activities, and dismisses them as neutral distractions from laboring for the profit of others. The underlying presumption is that your identity is labour you get paid for, and anything you don't get paid for is somehow inessential to who you are. It's an impoverished worldview based on scarcity and ignores growth. A hobby is only a distraction if you have internazlied an identity as the subject of some supervisor, and that "free time," comes as a treat or a reward from some other unspecified party, as though you were just a pet doing tricks for approval. Treating them diminuitively is just a polite way of not embarassing other people who are unable to manage their time as well or enrich their own lives to the same degree. Personally, I don't have hobbies, I just do a lot of things, and so I manage my time to do them, and adopting that worldview lets you do more of them.
j7ake 5y ago
What distinguishes streaming podcasts from the internet different than "spending time online" such that the former is good, while the latter is ruining your life?

193 points by vitabenes 5y ago

I have a theory, all the "high quality" hobbies are challenging in one way or another, thus require some level of will power to push yourself to do it. If you've been pushing yourself hard at work all day, then you have likely depleted your will power. Passive activities become the only ones you feel like doing.

boublepop 5y ago
> Passive activities become the only ones you feel like doing. Very true. But changing your lifestyle to a high degree is about turning the activities that you like into these “passive activities” like going for a morning run doesn’t feel like something you need to mentally or even physically exert yourself to do for someone who does it regularly 4 times a week.
aesyondu 5y ago
After switching careers to software engineering, I find that I appreciate high intensity / action oriented video games less (DMC, Monster Hunter, etc.). My browser history is now filled with "chill or relaxing games", "games that don't need thinking" or something to that effect.
- billfruit 5y ago
  My experience has been that if work is exhausting, then I turn to games that don't have much of narrative, but which rather on the mechanics. Like racing games, one does not have to think too much, but one has to be alert and focused on it.
  - pezezin 5y ago
    Doom Eternal was that kind of game for me. After a long day with another pointless meeting with the usual assholes, slaying demons left and right was almost therapeutic.
  - skydhash 5y ago
    Same, I have a bunch of games like Nier: Automata, Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice, Bloodborne, Control and I found that I can only play them on the weekend. After work, I can only play game like Dirt Rally, Trials Fusion and Apex Legends’ Arena. Where you don’t have to strategize that much and only rely on learnt reflexes. Anything that requires decisions or deciphering clues is impossible.
    - aweiland 5y ago
      You play Trials to relax? ;)
      - skydhash 5y ago
        When you get better at this kind of technically challenging game, there is a kind of flow that happens when you try to get better at previous challenge. The thinking is very minimal as you are only observing where you can improve. And it's a good feeling when you have indeed improved.
- Godel_unicode 5y ago
  Presenting an alternative perspective, I have a high pressure job that requires deep thought (I'm in infosec) and my hobbies are pretty much all about skill/intensity. No judgement if that's what you like, but I find chill/relaxing games to be boring and can't play them for very long without having to go find something more meaningful to do. I enjoy being alone with my thoughts, I just find low-stakes games to be a weird in-between area and while I know they're super popular I just don't get it. As a sibling comment says, ego depletion research is pretty low quality in terms of reproducibility. Anecdotally, I have never found it to be true for me.
  - sam0x17 5y ago
    Last time I worked in infosec, it was quite slow, depending on what you're doing. AFAIK you're either monitoring things, in which case it only gets interesting when there is an incident, and/or you're doing projects, but they are slow moving because they involve approvals, physical hardware, etc. If you're writing code all day I guarantee you'll feel drained.
    - Godel_unicode 5y ago
      As I said in the post you replied to, my job is high pressure and requires deep thought. My team writes a ton of code, and there's an on-call rotation where you're dealing with incidents and grooming training sets for our models. > ...I guarantee you'll feel drained. You'd lose that bet. Maybe you are, I however find writing code just as interesting and invigorating as I did over a decade ago in university. I do it at work, I do it in my free time both for purpose and for fun.
      - sam0x17 5y ago
        I'm just saying that from experience, I highly doubt there is an infosec job where you have less free time than the average coder. If you have time for deep thinking about problems, you have the kind of time I'm talking about that is super rare _on average_ in the industry.
- maddyboo 5y ago
  > chill and relax > don’t need thinking You seem to be seeking proxies for the effect of not thinking, putting your mind and body at ease, and letting go. Have you given meditation a try? Anecdotally, it can fulfill these needs in a way no other semi-conscious activity seems capable.
  - aesyondu 5y ago
    I started meditating when I was in university and have done it on and off since then. However, I've stopped a couple of months ago and haven't had the will to do it again. I find other activities more compelling, like reading everylayout or about rails performance.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
dend 5y ago
Ego depletion as a concept has been challenging to prove, if at all: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.00568/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.0056... I agree that often certain hobbies require a push to get started. That initial barrier is what I found the hardest to overcome, but once you start going - it becomes easier and easier. Similar to how one can attempt to overcome moments of procrastination - you need to get started and push through initial discomfort.
- grp000 5y ago
  I used to push paperwork and send out emails, sometimes analyzing drawings, but not actually use my brain too much as a construction project engineer. As a data engineer, it definitely feels more taxing on the mental side.
- rolisz 5y ago
  I think it's more that after 8 exhausting hours, I don't have energy anymore for anything. The 8 exhausting hours would be a day full of meetings, after which my brain is a mush and doesn't work anymore.
  - VeninVidiaVicii 5y ago
    Yes and imagine an intense level of stress when your partner asks what kind of movie you want to watch. Because, your brain just cannot process a single new decision.
    - bredren 5y ago
      Consider keeping a list of media you want to watch for occasions like this. Exhausted or not, you’re probably more likely to come across something unexpectedly and write it down than remember them all and offer up something fitting from memory.
      - scns 5y ago
        Well, the watchlist gets longer and when i want to watch something it is hard to choose.
hyperpallium2 5y ago
Even, predictable difficulty is key. Too easy and it's boring; too hard and it's frustrating. Suddenly, surprisingly difficult is so challenging it's the kind of thing that gets you riches and fame.
louis8799 5y ago
It's not like that at least when it comes to running. The more I run, the more will power I have for all the other stuffs.
- andhuman 5y ago
  Unless you end up on the bathroom floor, having overexerted yourself. Be kind to yourself people.
stevesimmons 5y ago
> Passive activities become the only ones you feel like doing. That's not the case in my experience. After a full day managing teams, solving problems and coding, I find it "relaxing" to do a physically and mentally challenging instructor/coach-led activity. For me, that means swimming, water polo or other team sport, dance classes learning a complex choreography, etc. It's relaxing switching off the "I'm in charge" part of my brain, while still getting the flow and enjoyment of improving a skill, especially with others in a non-tech environment.
chihuahua 5y ago
That's not the case for me. After working on annoying software tasks all day, I like to do a 34-mile/2-hour bike ride. I do this same route very frequently. It's refreshing because it's so completely different from my job. In contrast, a lot of games feel like work - guess where you're supposed to go or how to solve a problem, fail due to some trivial mistake, retry many times.
godDLL 5y ago
Yes, yes, yes, and no. Not passive. Low starting effort. Mise en place. I have similarly found that all of my activities are not things you can do when you're recovering from food poisoning and have massive thick brain fog all day. So I got into gardening, cooking and then baking, improving my own work clothing and putting up shelves around the kitchen and house. And walking alone. Which is amazing, if you leave your phone at home.

itronitron 5y ago

Cleaning the carpets and floors is also a good way to fill the vacuum.

dainiusse 5y ago

The author doesn't have kids I guess :) that turns the world around. Especially if you have twins or more.

Godel_unicode 5y ago
I know lots of people who both have kids and engage in tons of the items on this list. One of the most active, well-read people I know is a mother of 5.
- iman453 5y ago
  How does she manage? Any particular techniques you learned from her? :)
WalterGR 5y ago
Kids go to bed early. There’s time in evening.
- quickthrower2 5y ago
  Yeah way too tired to do much between 9:30 and 10!
- mderazon 5y ago
  They also tend to wake up early
- deckiedan 5y ago
  Our 4 year old wakes up about 6am (give or take 45 minutes) and as soon as she knows I'm awake, wants to read, talk, play together. Our 7 year old gets to bed at 7:45 in the evening, which is early compared to his friends. All the time outside of work between 6am and 7:45 pm is dominated by them. In the nicest possible way - but it's full on. All the time. My wife and I are both very tired by 7:45pm, need some social / couple time, but have so little mental energy to do anything beyond chores / essentials that all pre kids hobbies are waaaaay deprioritised. Say we have friends over once a week, a date night once a week, a social / community engagement once a week, a rest evening, it's like 4 evenings (8pm until 10pm...) max available for anything - with brains like mush. Add in chores, finances, shopping, contacting relatives and others...

yuuu 5y ago

My hobby is putting spaces before bold tags. I also get the feeling that the upvotes on this are from blackhat SEO.

vitabenes 5y ago
Spaces fixed. Upvotes are regular, people are just interested in the topic.

elefanten 5y ago

What is even going on here? Scroll to the bottom and this low production self-help book (which looks like it should be happy to be free) has three tiers of pricing and subscription crap? This seems nutty.

didibus 5y ago

I've actually found video games is one of my high quality leisure, but only the single player or local multiplayer experiences. My low quality leisure are my consumption (or constant checking for new content or upvotes) of blogs, articles, news, social media posts of people that aren't my real close friends or family, and all of my online commenting, including this one. Probably also consuming things I didn't actually want to consume count as well, so like watching random things that Netflix recommended or just showed up on TV versus watching a movie I'm actually interested in and want to watch. This is same for randomly playing video games like say on GamePass (like trying a bunch of games quickly). I'm trying to cut a lot of that out, and instead focus on playing only the games that truly interest me, watching only the shows and movies that truly interest me, only the books I really want to read, etc. Once you cut it down to just that, you'll find you still have a ton of free time, and you'll slowly be forced to also take a walk, go for a bike ride, work on your hobby projects, call a friend, grab a coffee, do a workout, cook something from a recipe book, play with your kids, take your partner out on a date, or go to bed early, etc.

vitabenes 5y ago
Yes. High-quality games like Factorio or Machinarium are quite good fun. Also helps if a game is finite, not infinite. For example, while you can play Factorio endlessly, the rocket is the goal and it gets less fun once you've done all the things - which is good. You play it, you enjoy it, you move on. That kind of play is quite healthy.

deleted 5y ago

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bluehat974 5y ago

Tomorrow, when we will work less, have basic income, and have more leisure time, this type of list will be very important. Otherwise, we will be human in Wall E movie

2Gkashmiri 5y ago

Maybe you’ve been “online” for so long that you have no idea what to do when you’re not online. This hit too close to home. Ive been online almost everyday since 2004 so yeah.

godDLL 5y ago
What kind of planning would it take for you to have a detox week? Do you have to call someone, tell them you won't be answering the phone this week? Do you need to notify your employer, work something out for that week to only come in on Thursday?
- 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
  i have never done that on my own volition. https://kashmirglacier.com/2019/12/16/internet-gag-kashmir-holds-first-slot-on-longest-internet-gag-worldwide/ https://kashmirglacier.com/2019/12/16/internet-gag-kashmir-h...
  - godDLL 5y ago
    Aha, got it. That is a terrible shame to be in that kind of situation, locally. But from the above I understand that you have done 4 months, and survived it? How about planning for it, and initiating it yourself? As in detox / vacation / self-time?

pech0rin 5y ago

Learning is not a leisure activity. I'm not saying it can't be fun or engaging or a great pastime but it requires as much focus if not more than work. It also requires constant attention (even if its in small amounts). It gives people a feeling of accomplishment and purpose but it is no way relaxing. I am sort of tired of these articles about procrastination, etc that equate like watching a movie and going to the gym or hiking. The activities aren't in the same realm at all. Basically shaming people for sitting around doing nothing with your brain off. I don't think you should be living your life like that all the time, but having an hour or two of straight mindlessness is not a bad thing. Pushing yourself to always be doing the activities you "should" do because some online guru says thats the right way to spend your time leads to burnout too.

kqr 5y ago
And to nobody's surprise, it turns out humans are different from each other. Learning is for me one of the highest forms of leisure. But I know not everyone feels that way.
stavros 5y ago
> Learning is not a leisure activity. I disagree with that. I agree with the rest of your comment, there's nothing wrong with turning your brain off for however long you want, but leisure doesn't have to mean "turning your brain off". I program for leisure because that's what I like to do.
- nivenkos 5y ago
  Do you do it after working for 8 hours though? I sometimes do it on the weekend, mainly because then I can program in new and more interesting areas. But after work feels impossible, I just don't want to sit in front of the computer still.
  - stavros 5y ago
    Yeah, I'll regularly finish work and continue programming for a few more hours. I like it a lot. Not always, of course, but not rarely either.

quickthrower2 5y ago

Mild cfs has freed me from worry about these kinds of optimisations. Day on Reddit? All good.

avgcorrection 5y ago

Reminds me of an episode of Queer Eye For the Straight Guy. The guy had a mess of a house. Clutter everywhere. He had no style to speak of. Didn’t really seem interesting either. Of course the queer guys fixed things up for him. What was mentioned kind of in passing was that he worked two jobs. I don’t think the makeover was lasting.

a3_nm 5y ago

I think there are at least three notions of "high-quality" conflated in the article: - leisure which also satisfies longer-term goals (e.g., listening to an educational podcast, practicing a skill), vs leisure which is only pleasant in the moment - leisure that you had to make some deliberate effort to initiate and with a clear end time (e.g., going out, going to the movies) vs leisure which starts automatically and ends when it does (e.g., binge-watching) - leisure that gets you outdoors and/or with other people, vs leisure that doesn't And of course you can find many kinds of activities along these dimensions. Binge-reading Wikipedia can be instructive even if it's an impulsive behavior and indoors/alone. Sitting down to play a short video game and finish it in a few hours can be actively chosen fun even though it's indoors and only pleasant in the moment. Walking in nature can be pleasant and outdoors but not instructive. Ambient chatting with a friend can be social even if it's indoors and impulsive...

kstenerud 5y ago

Pro-tip: Don't try to optimize your leisure time. https://dilbert.com/strip/1997-07-25 https://dilbert.com/strip/1997-07-25

jmrm 5y ago
Pretty funny how today's Dilbert strip was about that :-) https://dilbert.com/strip/2021-10-18 https://dilbert.com/strip/2021-10-18

sysadm1n 5y ago

> he was scared of stopping playing video games and surfing the Internet For me it depends on the utility I get out of games. Minecraft is like Lego 2.0 and players often share custom maps they've built so there's a community there too. Minecraft is also hackable and I've seen many videos on Youtube of people creating exceptionally creative things with it. It's not just a time-sink: people derive pleasure out of sharing their creativity with the world - something difficult to do with Lego or board-games. As for surfing the Internet: well yes the Internet can be an endless rabbithole if you let it. I've stopped treating it as a rabbithole though, and casually glance at the Hackernews frontpage in the morning, see what tools / services / products I can leverage going forward, then close the tab, after bookmarking a link or two which I will revisit later when I'm feeling creative. Same for Reddit, Twitter etc You can either scroll mindfully or scroll mindlessly. It's your choice.

silhardt 5y ago

I've been seeing a lot of these sorts of articles recently (time online is ruining your life; here are 17 ways to disconnect), and I have to say I simply reject the premise. Once again, it's binary thinking creeping in and human brains generally being far more receptive to arguments along the lines of "this technology/concept/ideology/whatever is bad and you should reject it" over ones that say "this technology/concept/ideology/whatever is a tool and its value is dependent on how its used and when it's applied". I've seen the binary thinking problem applied to the internet/online life quite a bit recently, and it bothers me because growing up my experiences of the internet/web were almost overwhelmingly positive, constructive, and developmental in nature. It was instrumental in my development as a person because it's a tool that allows you to read constantly. For people with lots of innate curiosity there really is nothing more powerful than that. The encroachment of the social media/video streaming/adtech companies into the space doesn't negate that use case, so I'm extremely hesitant to say if everyone would just unplug the world would magically be better.

whytaka 5y ago
This may seem snarky but you should apply similar thinking to the article itself. It might be written in a certain but you don’t have to read it as it’s intended. I’ve learned, grown, and profited a lot around screens but now I’m looking for hobbies outside screens. While I reject the premise that time spent looking at screens are wasted, this article may help with finding my next hobby.
suketk 5y ago
While I agree that completely "unplugging" is not the ideal solution, doing so occasionally helps you understand how to use technology intentionally (i.e as a tool, not an escape). You realize what you miss and what you don't, which allows you to reallocate your usage. What's missing for most people is some structured way to reflect about this, so I created a free* accountability group program [0] that helps them do this alongside others who want to use technology in a healthy way. (Very open to feedback!) [0] https://themoai.org/intentional-technology https://themoai.org/intentional-technology * Free to join, but requires a credit card to enforce financial accountability - we donate money to charity (not us) on your behalf if you don't complete the program. Time commitment is only 15 min/week.

giantg2 5y ago

How is consuming some of these other digital products better than "surfing" the internet? Most of the time I'm learning things on the internet. It also helps one find new hobbies. For example, I've been researching ultralight aircraft recently. I dont think I'll actually get one due to price, storage, spouse, etc. But it's fun to learn about.

greenail 5y ago

"meet new people" is missing from the list. I wonder how diverse a 20-something's circle is these days vs 20 years ago. I used to talk to as many different people as I could: motor cycle mechanics, Johns Hopkins post docs, NSA engineers, actors, set dressers, woodworkers, painters, business owners. Does the opportunity to get out of your "social bubble" still exist today?

qolop 5y ago
It doesn't, for me. I'm 20 something and work from home. I want to fix this but don't know how to. The pandemic has complicated things even more. :(
jmrm 5y ago
Sincerely, as a person between 25 to 35 years old, i don't know how to get out my social bubble outside friends, family, or co-workers instroducing me new people, specially as an introverted and "interested in things"[1] kind of person. [1]: Here I'm talking about the spectrum between those who are interested in other people and other who are interested in things.

ArtWomb 5y ago

I'd add a scientific bent to those pursuits, if you are so inclined. Get into the habits of thinking like a naturist in the Age of Humboldt vein. A local library, for example, recently held a "DIY Telescope" night. And I always get personally nostalgic whenever I see a young child of today heading out to the fields to test an Estes Rocket ;)

motohagiography 5y ago

We need a better popular understanding of "hobbies," because it conflates a bunch of highly sophisticated activities, and dismisses them as neutral distractions from laboring for the profit of others. The underlying presumption is that your identity is labour you get paid for, and anything you don't get paid for is somehow inessential to who you are. It's an impoverished worldview based on scarcity and ignores growth. A hobby is only a distraction if you have internazlied an identity as the subject of some supervisor, and that "free time," comes as a treat or a reward from some other unspecified party, as though you were just a pet doing tricks for approval. Treating them diminuitively is just a polite way of not embarassing other people who are unable to manage their time as well or enrich their own lives to the same degree. Personally, I don't have hobbies, I just do a lot of things, and so I manage my time to do them, and adopting that worldview lets you do more of them.

j7ake 5y ago

What distinguishes streaming podcasts from the internet different than "spending time online" such that the former is good, while the latter is ruining your life?