13 ms·

Louisville sawmill challenges perception about wages

71 points by MaysonL 5y ago

bombcar 5y ago
Meanwhile near me McDonalds has been offering $15 (or $18 for a closing shift) and they seem to be unable to fill positions. Turns out if there are fewer jobs than people wages go down. Reverse it and they go up. Smart companies will move to preserve the employees they have instead of having to train new ones after having to raise wages anyway.
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  There’s also the reality that a job paying $15/hr doesn’t provide benefits or a full-time schedule. There’s no shortage of jobs offering both right now. Free markets work both ways.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  I am hoping the situation for employers to get so dire that they have to start offering minimum salaries for hourly workers if the number of hours are not sufficient, steady schedules, and redundant employees for shift type work where the work cannot be done at another time.
- buck4roo 5y ago
  Decent explainer debunking the prevailing media stories: Don’t Blame Workers for Inflation https://nyti.ms/2Xhxul7 https://nyti.ms/2Xhxul7
  - bpodgursky 5y ago
    That's a ridiculous strawman... nobody is blaming the workers. Workers respond to incentives like any normal person does. People are blaming federal stimulus spending and the Fed.
    - jnwatson 5y ago
      It isn’t that either. It is entirely supply chain issues, including oil.
      - colordrops 5y ago
        How do supply chain issues cause companies to have a hard time hiring?
        chongli 5y ago
        Companies won’t hire if they have backlogs in their supply chain and can’t bring in materials/product.
        tdeck 5y ago
        OK, but shouldn't that leave more qualified employees on the market for employers that do want to hire? The stories we're seeing are the opposite, with employees putting out unfilled want ads for weeks / months.
        colordrops 5y ago
        That's not what is being claimed though - the claim is that companies can't find employees to fill empty positions - it's not that they are not hiring.
      - postingawayonhn 5y ago
        Surely the extra stimulus spending is having a significant impact on supply chains?
        imtringued 5y ago
        It's impact is that it keeps them alive.
    - topkai22 5y ago
      There are plenty of people blaming workers- I’ve heard many iterations of “we’ve got lazy people on unemployment who won’t work” or the signs at restaurants or stores saying “closed on X because no one wants to work any more” Is lessened with the end of unemployment benefits, but saying no one partly blames workers is not true.
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
  Those jobs will fill up quickly. Low wage workers are still living off those added federal unemployment money. (Unemployment benefits should be at that level. I never understood how people survive off prepandemic unemployment checks.) The powers at be (Big bloated alcoholic wealthy boy Senators) will start their low wage worker corporate chant about, "The value of a hard days work is blah blah, and how proud Americans will take any job just to feel like a Man." All those lousy back breaking smelly no future jobs will be filled. Nothing will change. Companies will get away with having people lease transportation in order to work for non-livable existences, while being called hustlers, or Independant Employees. Homelessness will just get worse. Multiple families living under one roof will be the norm. Corporate will make their wad though, and act like everything is rosy. What bothers me is CEO's, like that tool from Dominos, is all for bringing in more low wage workers from other countries, in order to deliver his pizzas. He claims they go from delivery drivers to millionaire. (Jim Cramer interview him, and Cramer said, "The problem is those low wage employees don't go on to own a franchise anymore. The tool bag acted like he didn't hear that tid bit of info, and kept chanting his mythical road to poverty to success stories. Cramer dummied up, and said nothing.
- blunte 5y ago
  My last company was a big, successful HR and recruiting firm. But in our large IT department, there was significant turnover. The colleages were great, but wages were not high enough and upper career options were limited due to some particular executive decisions... so good skilled people often had a lot to offer the company would leave after 1-2 years. In other words, even the companies you would expect to be the smartest about this topic often are not. There is still a huge blind spot for companies when it comes to recognizing the value of retaining skilled workers. As for your McDs, do you happen to live in a relatively wealthy area? Kids of upper middle families don't need to do crappy jobs, so they won't. And the ones who do need those jobs may find the high traffic commute (especially without a decent public transport system) not worth it.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    Nah, it’s rural. The kids are loving it because they’re getting quite a bit but most people would rather take the higher paying jobs in the area.
exhilaration 5y ago
I live in suburban Pennsylvania, we have lots and lots of warehouses and we've been seeing billboards announcing unusually high hourly wages, the highest I've seen is up to $27 per hour, here's a local news story: https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/business/2021/10/uline-luring-workers-in-lehigh-county-with-25-hourly-wages-and-2k-sign-on-bonuses.html https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/business/2021/10/uline-luri... I think this is fantastic and I hope it lasts.
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  It's only fantastic if $27 is in 2019 dollars, not 2021 dollars.
  - jeroenhd 5y ago
    $27 in 2021 is still over $25 in 2019 [0]. That's a lot better than the minimum of $14 or the standard $20 for skilled wood workers that another comment mentioned. Inflation may be high today in the USA (as much as 5.8% this year) but it'll take a while until these numbers become as drastic as many news outlets make them appear. [0] https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=27&year1=202109&year2=201909 https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=27&year1=20210...
    - bpodgursky 5y ago
      Real inflation is not 5.8%. Houses are up like 30%. Gas too.
- moron4hire 5y ago
  That's... almost exactly the inflation adjustment for what they've always paid. I made $15/hr entry level at one in central PA as a summer job between semesters in college 20 years ago. Minimum wage was $5.15 at the time. It was better pay than my first tech job (QA testing, $11/hr) and I seriously considered going back for a while. But I wouldn't call it "fantastic".
itronitron 5y ago
Nice article. Hopefully more companies will realize that their operations are more stable when employees are paid well enough to have a comfortable home life.
twofornone 5y ago
How is the market still soaring with a supposed nationwide labor shortage? Is this just a low wage phenomenon? Is this another indicator that we're in a giant bubble?
thread_id 5y ago
There exists volumes of research about the negative and positive employment effects of having a minimum wage. I am glad to see that finally a market mechanism (supply and demand) is the catalyst that is driving wages in general higher - including the minimum wage.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
artificialLimbs 5y ago
Inflation will potentially reduce the US to a third world country. I'm not saying it's bad that they are getting raises at this sawmill, but this article is brushing aside much broader implications and paints nothing but rosy pictures of what's going on at a higher level. When you have to pay employees more, costs go up. When costs go up, prices go up. When prices go up, people get poorer. This lesson has played out in history innumerable times. >> Everything is cyclical, so I don’t know how long it will last. Right up until the bread runs out, boo. >> The demand is for middle income and upscale housing, Hill said. Because people with a bit of money stashed away that can are fleeing the highly populated areas due to pricing insanity. >> Perhaps just as important is that those hard-working sawmill workers may find life a little easier and the stresses that lead to poverty and crime and all other sorts of societal ills may be relieved a bit. This... is not generally how gaining more and more external population works. This whole article is contrived euphoric delusion.
- justinclift 5y ago
  > Inflation will potentially reduce the US to a third world country. While the US may well get there, is there a reason to believe inflation will drive it, rather than any number of other idiotic foot-guns your leaders seem determined to apply?
- el_benhameen 5y ago
  I am genuinely curious: you seem unhappy with the economic circumstances presented in the article (and in the country in general), so what is your preferred alternative in terms of policy and outcomes?
  - RNCTX 5y ago
    Complain until hungry people kill him and take his stuff, I'd wager. Conservatives have thousands of years of history to look to and see that pattern play out over and over again, and yet they think it'll be different this time if only they implement this one weird trick.
    - 5y ago
roamerz 5y ago
what goes up first the wages or the cost of living? in the end I think they chase each others tail. someone has to pay the bill for that person getting $18hr for flipping burgers or pulling green chain. it’s an upward spiral probably hurting those on a fixed income the worst. the paycheck will of course look and feel nice but now the trip to the grocery store will be $135 instead of $85.
- bserge 5y ago
  Well, in this case it's cost of living. I can only speak for some of Europe. Shit is going up in price (and it doesn't seem to be slowing down). Wages are going up, too. Ultimately a bit useless, the poorest are still more fucked by CoL than they're helped by higher wages.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Only because there is insufficient wealth transfer from the top deciles and quintiles to the bottom ones. Obviously, if society retains the same conditions that allow increasing income/wealth gaps, then higher wages will not help the poorest.
- cycomanic 5y ago
  It's funny if investors demand 10% ROI nobody blinks an eyelid, but if if wages are go up suddenly everyone talks about inflation. Do investors returns not increase prices?
  - refurb 5y ago
    ROI can go up with no impact on prices, that’s why.
  - onion2k 5y ago
    If investors decided to demand 1,000,000% ROI we wouldn't suddenly have hyperinflation. Investors can 'demand' whatever they like; there's no guarantee they're going to get it, and most of the time they won't. It's just their way of exerting control over a company. When wages go up they actually go up, which, at least according to conservative economic theory, leads to inflation. In practice though it often doesn't.
greenie_beans 5y ago
This has me asking so many questions. They claimed Louisville grew in population. Did they come from the surrounding areas? If so, which ones? Mississippi as a whole lost population according to the 2020 census. The bigger places around Louisville would be Meridian, casinos, and maybe Jackson. I doubt folks are moving from those spots but I don’t know. I suspect it’s people coming in from the surrounding county/rural areas? Are the companies able to pay more because of the lumber market this year? What about other sawmills in Mississippi? What about timberland owners? They haven’t reaped the benefits of sawmills, because there’s like 50 years worth of timber inventory in the American South (though it appears Q3 is picking up! https://www.forest2market.com/blog/southern-timber-prices-hit-14-year-high https://www.forest2market.com/blog/southern-timber-prices-hi...) And does this just raise the wages or is there some profit sharing going on?
ploxiln 5y ago
> the company announced the rollout of a new wage structure, including a minimum wage of $15.25 per hour > What Winston Plywood is doing defies almost everything we have been told about wages in Mississippi — that raising the minimum wage would cripple profits, throw company pay structures into chaos, create inflation and ultimately wreck the economy. Uh, no ... they didn't raise the minimum wage, they raised the wage that they pay. That's not the same thing at all. That's a market force, not a government intervention, in this particular case.
- blunte 5y ago
  Yes, they did raise the minimum wage at that company. The expression "minimum wage" gets applied to different contexts. National minimum wage is the minimum wage specified by (presumably) a national law. Likewise some states have higher state minimum wages. But every company has a minimum wage - that is the lowest wage paid to an employee of the company. Or it can be more broadly used to describe the minimum hourly wage paid to anyone who does work for the company (temp worker, contractor, etc.). It seems you're really missing the point of the article. Some political forces have been pushing the argument that raising the minimum wage will have many negative side effects, especially for the businesses themselves. This one example seems to show the opposite. But it's not a market force; it's a (contrarian) business decision which was made with a long term goal in mind. It seems the company decided that retaining skilled talent was worth paying more for and would result in better long term profits.
  - legostormtroopr 5y ago
    Minimum wage has never meant “the minimum wage of a single employer”. The key factor of the minimum wage is that, if they wanted the employer could reduce their wages back down to the actual minimum wage.
    - Corinthian 5y ago
      > "On Monday, the company announced the rollout of a new wage structure, including a minimum wage of $15.25 per hour and increases for its skilled workers, bringing the average salary to $20 per hour." It seems obvious to me that it is referring it the minimum wage within the company's wage structure, and not a national minimum wage. I don't understand your point, "the company announced the rollout of a new wage structure, including a minimum wage of $15.25 per hour", means exactly that.
DrPhish 5y ago
As a Canadian in the wood products sector it’s a bit shocking wages in US sawmills are so low…in Canada production workers make 1/2 to 2/3 of trades wages and have excellent safety standards and worker protection. There is a fair amount of retention of young people in rural communities thanks to that. Automation displaces some amount of jobs, but is more geared towards increasing productivity and grade outturn
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  It is Mississippi, the poorest state in the nation. Contrast with WA, where the minimum wage is $14.49, but I doubt a sawmill would find a worker for less than $20 if not $25.
ghastmaster 5y ago
They were able to raise wages due to the increased market price of their goods. Government imposed minimum wages increase regardless of the market price of a company's goods or services. Mandatory minimum wages are most detrimental to those who the proponents are claiming to help. Low skilled workers are less likely to be hired because they have to be paid at a rate above what the market value of their labor is. This is not the case right now because the market rate of low skill labor has increased beyond the federal and state minimums. During periods of high labor availability and low job availability, minimum wages can establish a significant barrier to employment for low skilled workers. During times like the present when labor supply is short, minimum wage mandates are not keeping up with the market and have very little effect on hiring.
- atonse 5y ago
  What you’re saying totally makes sense from an intuitive sense. But how do we reconcile that with the ability for someone to be able to live on a certain wage, given there are only so many hours they can work? Yes the market value might be lower but their bills don’t get lower. I’m genuinely asking how we square those two.
  - wheels 5y ago
    Squaring those things mostly involves deciding if there's moral value in work. If there is, you effectively create a subsidy for low-paid work by supplementing it via welfare or tax credits. If you don't believe that there's moral value in work, you accept that those jobs will of necessity be moved to lower-waged places on the planet, replaced by automation, or deemed to be not be viable (and probably end up providing living costs via the social safety net).
  - unpolloloco 5y ago
    In one word: move. The living wage for a single adult in SF with no kids is $28/hour(1). That's not a realistic wage for someone in most unskilled jobs (which is why there's basically no manufacturing there and only the bare minimum of service jobs!). We should subsidize moving. The other point to make here is that labor constraints are largely a good thing right now. We went 50 years where the power balance was on the corporate side. Now that it's shifting, labor is finally seeing the benefits of increased productivity over that time. All it took was a global pandemic to push a few million boomers into finally retiring... (1) https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/06075 https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/06075
shireboy 5y ago
Some other commenters have pointed out: huge difference between artificially mandating this sort of wage through legislation and a company deciding on their own to do so because of economics, generosity (such do exist, not all), etc. It also ignores whether it is sustainable long term, and economic impact should it continue. For all we know, this could put the company out of business financially. I hope not, but it could. And, should it become a trend or government mandate, the impact on inflation and other economic factors is a question. In the end, likely pros and cons, and hard to balance: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/55681 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/55681
specialist 5y ago
"The one thing that doesn’t change is that they want to make profits," [Will Hall] noted. "Not to get too far into theory, but what’s happening here, I think, is basic economics. For a lot of years, there were more workers than jobs. Now, I think that’s changed." Yup. It's pretty basic. Labor gets a better deal in one of two ways. 1. Reduction in workforce. Historically, Black Death and wars. 2. Collective action. Guilds, unions, trades, and the like. I honestly didn't think I'd live to see Labor doing better. I'm glad there's finally some movement. I'm sorry it took a pandemic. [Yes, there's multiple forces. Things are never simple, there's always more to the story. Aging workforce, (mostly men) opting out, (mostly woman) stuck with child and elder care, wave of early retirement, reduction in immigration, increased disability and mortality, and probably more.] -- Also interesting in this story: "This week, Winston Plywood, through its investors, a Connecticut-based equity firm, announced a new wage structure." Access to capital. If policy makers want employers to increase wages, we need to consider how to make it happen. I'm totally onboard with using pandemic crisis cheddar (governmental largess) to provide capital to distressed businesses. Especially locally owned. Loans, grants, debt forgiveness, whatever. Corporations and trusts receive billions. That'll never stop. I just want some of that torrent of cash to go directly to where it will help the most. Versus waiting for it to "trickle down".
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

71 points by MaysonL 5y ago

Meanwhile near me McDonalds has been offering $15 (or $18 for a closing shift) and they seem to be unable to fill positions. Turns out if there are fewer jobs than people wages go down. Reverse it and they go up. Smart companies will move to preserve the employees they have instead of having to train new ones after having to raise wages anyway.

wayoutthere 5y ago
There’s also the reality that a job paying $15/hr doesn’t provide benefits or a full-time schedule. There’s no shortage of jobs offering both right now. Free markets work both ways.
lotsofpulp 5y ago
I am hoping the situation for employers to get so dire that they have to start offering minimum salaries for hourly workers if the number of hours are not sufficient, steady schedules, and redundant employees for shift type work where the work cannot be done at another time.
buck4roo 5y ago
Decent explainer debunking the prevailing media stories: Don’t Blame Workers for Inflation https://nyti.ms/2Xhxul7 https://nyti.ms/2Xhxul7
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  That's a ridiculous strawman... nobody is blaming the workers. Workers respond to incentives like any normal person does. People are blaming federal stimulus spending and the Fed.
  - jnwatson 5y ago
    It isn’t that either. It is entirely supply chain issues, including oil.
    - colordrops 5y ago
      How do supply chain issues cause companies to have a hard time hiring?
      - chongli 5y ago
        Companies won’t hire if they have backlogs in their supply chain and can’t bring in materials/product.
        tdeck 5y ago
        OK, but shouldn't that leave more qualified employees on the market for employers that do want to hire? The stories we're seeing are the opposite, with employees putting out unfilled want ads for weeks / months.
        colordrops 5y ago
        That's not what is being claimed though - the claim is that companies can't find employees to fill empty positions - it's not that they are not hiring.
    - postingawayonhn 5y ago
      Surely the extra stimulus spending is having a significant impact on supply chains?
      - imtringued 5y ago
        It's impact is that it keeps them alive.
  - topkai22 5y ago
    There are plenty of people blaming workers- I’ve heard many iterations of “we’ve got lazy people on unemployment who won’t work” or the signs at restaurants or stores saying “closed on X because no one wants to work any more” Is lessened with the end of unemployment benefits, but saying no one partly blames workers is not true.
hellbannedguy 5y ago
Those jobs will fill up quickly. Low wage workers are still living off those added federal unemployment money. (Unemployment benefits should be at that level. I never understood how people survive off prepandemic unemployment checks.) The powers at be (Big bloated alcoholic wealthy boy Senators) will start their low wage worker corporate chant about, "The value of a hard days work is blah blah, and how proud Americans will take any job just to feel like a Man." All those lousy back breaking smelly no future jobs will be filled. Nothing will change. Companies will get away with having people lease transportation in order to work for non-livable existences, while being called hustlers, or Independant Employees. Homelessness will just get worse. Multiple families living under one roof will be the norm. Corporate will make their wad though, and act like everything is rosy. What bothers me is CEO's, like that tool from Dominos, is all for bringing in more low wage workers from other countries, in order to deliver his pizzas. He claims they go from delivery drivers to millionaire. (Jim Cramer interview him, and Cramer said, "The problem is those low wage employees don't go on to own a franchise anymore. The tool bag acted like he didn't hear that tid bit of info, and kept chanting his mythical road to poverty to success stories. Cramer dummied up, and said nothing.
blunte 5y ago
My last company was a big, successful HR and recruiting firm. But in our large IT department, there was significant turnover. The colleages were great, but wages were not high enough and upper career options were limited due to some particular executive decisions... so good skilled people often had a lot to offer the company would leave after 1-2 years. In other words, even the companies you would expect to be the smartest about this topic often are not. There is still a huge blind spot for companies when it comes to recognizing the value of retaining skilled workers. As for your McDs, do you happen to live in a relatively wealthy area? Kids of upper middle families don't need to do crappy jobs, so they won't. And the ones who do need those jobs may find the high traffic commute (especially without a decent public transport system) not worth it.
- bombcar 5y ago
  Nah, it’s rural. The kids are loving it because they’re getting quite a bit but most people would rather take the higher paying jobs in the area.

exhilaration 5y ago

I live in suburban Pennsylvania, we have lots and lots of warehouses and we've been seeing billboards announcing unusually high hourly wages, the highest I've seen is up to $27 per hour, here's a local news story: https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/business/2021/10/uline-luring-workers-in-lehigh-county-with-25-hourly-wages-and-2k-sign-on-bonuses.html https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/business/2021/10/uline-luri... I think this is fantastic and I hope it lasts.

bpodgursky 5y ago
It's only fantastic if $27 is in 2019 dollars, not 2021 dollars.
- jeroenhd 5y ago
  $27 in 2021 is still over $25 in 2019 [0]. That's a lot better than the minimum of $14 or the standard $20 for skilled wood workers that another comment mentioned. Inflation may be high today in the USA (as much as 5.8% this year) but it'll take a while until these numbers become as drastic as many news outlets make them appear. [0] https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=27&year1=202109&year2=201909 https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=27&year1=20210...
  - bpodgursky 5y ago
    Real inflation is not 5.8%. Houses are up like 30%. Gas too.
moron4hire 5y ago
That's... almost exactly the inflation adjustment for what they've always paid. I made $15/hr entry level at one in central PA as a summer job between semesters in college 20 years ago. Minimum wage was $5.15 at the time. It was better pay than my first tech job (QA testing, $11/hr) and I seriously considered going back for a while. But I wouldn't call it "fantastic".

itronitron 5y ago

Nice article. Hopefully more companies will realize that their operations are more stable when employees are paid well enough to have a comfortable home life.

twofornone 5y ago

How is the market still soaring with a supposed nationwide labor shortage? Is this just a low wage phenomenon? Is this another indicator that we're in a giant bubble?

thread_id 5y ago

There exists volumes of research about the negative and positive employment effects of having a minimum wage. I am glad to see that finally a market mechanism (supply and demand) is the catalyst that is driving wages in general higher - including the minimum wage.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

artificialLimbs 5y ago

Inflation will potentially reduce the US to a third world country. I'm not saying it's bad that they are getting raises at this sawmill, but this article is brushing aside much broader implications and paints nothing but rosy pictures of what's going on at a higher level. When you have to pay employees more, costs go up. When costs go up, prices go up. When prices go up, people get poorer. This lesson has played out in history innumerable times. >> Everything is cyclical, so I don’t know how long it will last. Right up until the bread runs out, boo. >> The demand is for middle income and upscale housing, Hill said. Because people with a bit of money stashed away that can are fleeing the highly populated areas due to pricing insanity. >> Perhaps just as important is that those hard-working sawmill workers may find life a little easier and the stresses that lead to poverty and crime and all other sorts of societal ills may be relieved a bit. This... is not generally how gaining more and more external population works. This whole article is contrived euphoric delusion.

justinclift 5y ago
> Inflation will potentially reduce the US to a third world country. While the US may well get there, is there a reason to believe inflation will drive it, rather than any number of other idiotic foot-guns your leaders seem determined to apply?
el_benhameen 5y ago
I am genuinely curious: you seem unhappy with the economic circumstances presented in the article (and in the country in general), so what is your preferred alternative in terms of policy and outcomes?
- RNCTX 5y ago
  Complain until hungry people kill him and take his stuff, I'd wager. Conservatives have thousands of years of history to look to and see that pattern play out over and over again, and yet they think it'll be different this time if only they implement this one weird trick.
  - 5y ago

roamerz 5y ago

what goes up first the wages or the cost of living? in the end I think they chase each others tail. someone has to pay the bill for that person getting $18hr for flipping burgers or pulling green chain. it’s an upward spiral probably hurting those on a fixed income the worst. the paycheck will of course look and feel nice but now the trip to the grocery store will be $135 instead of $85.

bserge 5y ago
Well, in this case it's cost of living. I can only speak for some of Europe. Shit is going up in price (and it doesn't seem to be slowing down). Wages are going up, too. Ultimately a bit useless, the poorest are still more fucked by CoL than they're helped by higher wages.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Only because there is insufficient wealth transfer from the top deciles and quintiles to the bottom ones. Obviously, if society retains the same conditions that allow increasing income/wealth gaps, then higher wages will not help the poorest.
cycomanic 5y ago
It's funny if investors demand 10% ROI nobody blinks an eyelid, but if if wages are go up suddenly everyone talks about inflation. Do investors returns not increase prices?
- refurb 5y ago
  ROI can go up with no impact on prices, that’s why.
- onion2k 5y ago
  If investors decided to demand 1,000,000% ROI we wouldn't suddenly have hyperinflation. Investors can 'demand' whatever they like; there's no guarantee they're going to get it, and most of the time they won't. It's just their way of exerting control over a company. When wages go up they actually go up, which, at least according to conservative economic theory, leads to inflation. In practice though it often doesn't.

greenie_beans 5y ago

This has me asking so many questions. They claimed Louisville grew in population. Did they come from the surrounding areas? If so, which ones? Mississippi as a whole lost population according to the 2020 census. The bigger places around Louisville would be Meridian, casinos, and maybe Jackson. I doubt folks are moving from those spots but I don’t know. I suspect it’s people coming in from the surrounding county/rural areas? Are the companies able to pay more because of the lumber market this year? What about other sawmills in Mississippi? What about timberland owners? They haven’t reaped the benefits of sawmills, because there’s like 50 years worth of timber inventory in the American South (though it appears Q3 is picking up! https://www.forest2market.com/blog/southern-timber-prices-hit-14-year-high https://www.forest2market.com/blog/southern-timber-prices-hi...) And does this just raise the wages or is there some profit sharing going on?

ploxiln 5y ago

> the company announced the rollout of a new wage structure, including a minimum wage of $15.25 per hour > What Winston Plywood is doing defies almost everything we have been told about wages in Mississippi — that raising the minimum wage would cripple profits, throw company pay structures into chaos, create inflation and ultimately wreck the economy. Uh, no ... they didn't raise the minimum wage, they raised the wage that they pay. That's not the same thing at all. That's a market force, not a government intervention, in this particular case.

blunte 5y ago
Yes, they did raise the minimum wage at that company. The expression "minimum wage" gets applied to different contexts. National minimum wage is the minimum wage specified by (presumably) a national law. Likewise some states have higher state minimum wages. But every company has a minimum wage - that is the lowest wage paid to an employee of the company. Or it can be more broadly used to describe the minimum hourly wage paid to anyone who does work for the company (temp worker, contractor, etc.). It seems you're really missing the point of the article. Some political forces have been pushing the argument that raising the minimum wage will have many negative side effects, especially for the businesses themselves. This one example seems to show the opposite. But it's not a market force; it's a (contrarian) business decision which was made with a long term goal in mind. It seems the company decided that retaining skilled talent was worth paying more for and would result in better long term profits.
- legostormtroopr 5y ago
  Minimum wage has never meant “the minimum wage of a single employer”. The key factor of the minimum wage is that, if they wanted the employer could reduce their wages back down to the actual minimum wage.
  - Corinthian 5y ago
    > "On Monday, the company announced the rollout of a new wage structure, including a minimum wage of $15.25 per hour and increases for its skilled workers, bringing the average salary to $20 per hour." It seems obvious to me that it is referring it the minimum wage within the company's wage structure, and not a national minimum wage. I don't understand your point, "the company announced the rollout of a new wage structure, including a minimum wage of $15.25 per hour", means exactly that.

DrPhish 5y ago

As a Canadian in the wood products sector it’s a bit shocking wages in US sawmills are so low…in Canada production workers make 1/2 to 2/3 of trades wages and have excellent safety standards and worker protection. There is a fair amount of retention of young people in rural communities thanks to that. Automation displaces some amount of jobs, but is more geared towards increasing productivity and grade outturn

lotsofpulp 5y ago
It is Mississippi, the poorest state in the nation. Contrast with WA, where the minimum wage is $14.49, but I doubt a sawmill would find a worker for less than $20 if not $25.

ghastmaster 5y ago

They were able to raise wages due to the increased market price of their goods. Government imposed minimum wages increase regardless of the market price of a company's goods or services. Mandatory minimum wages are most detrimental to those who the proponents are claiming to help. Low skilled workers are less likely to be hired because they have to be paid at a rate above what the market value of their labor is. This is not the case right now because the market rate of low skill labor has increased beyond the federal and state minimums. During periods of high labor availability and low job availability, minimum wages can establish a significant barrier to employment for low skilled workers. During times like the present when labor supply is short, minimum wage mandates are not keeping up with the market and have very little effect on hiring.

atonse 5y ago
What you’re saying totally makes sense from an intuitive sense. But how do we reconcile that with the ability for someone to be able to live on a certain wage, given there are only so many hours they can work? Yes the market value might be lower but their bills don’t get lower. I’m genuinely asking how we square those two.
- wheels 5y ago
  Squaring those things mostly involves deciding if there's moral value in work. If there is, you effectively create a subsidy for low-paid work by supplementing it via welfare or tax credits. If you don't believe that there's moral value in work, you accept that those jobs will of necessity be moved to lower-waged places on the planet, replaced by automation, or deemed to be not be viable (and probably end up providing living costs via the social safety net).
- unpolloloco 5y ago
  In one word: move. The living wage for a single adult in SF with no kids is $28/hour(1). That's not a realistic wage for someone in most unskilled jobs (which is why there's basically no manufacturing there and only the bare minimum of service jobs!). We should subsidize moving. The other point to make here is that labor constraints are largely a good thing right now. We went 50 years where the power balance was on the corporate side. Now that it's shifting, labor is finally seeing the benefits of increased productivity over that time. All it took was a global pandemic to push a few million boomers into finally retiring... (1) https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/06075 https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/06075

shireboy 5y ago

Some other commenters have pointed out: huge difference between artificially mandating this sort of wage through legislation and a company deciding on their own to do so because of economics, generosity (such do exist, not all), etc. It also ignores whether it is sustainable long term, and economic impact should it continue. For all we know, this could put the company out of business financially. I hope not, but it could. And, should it become a trend or government mandate, the impact on inflation and other economic factors is a question. In the end, likely pros and cons, and hard to balance: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/55681 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/55681

specialist 5y ago

"The one thing that doesn’t change is that they want to make profits," [Will Hall] noted. "Not to get too far into theory, but what’s happening here, I think, is basic economics. For a lot of years, there were more workers than jobs. Now, I think that’s changed." Yup. It's pretty basic. Labor gets a better deal in one of two ways. 1. Reduction in workforce. Historically, Black Death and wars. 2. Collective action. Guilds, unions, trades, and the like. I honestly didn't think I'd live to see Labor doing better. I'm glad there's finally some movement. I'm sorry it took a pandemic. [Yes, there's multiple forces. Things are never simple, there's always more to the story. Aging workforce, (mostly men) opting out, (mostly woman) stuck with child and elder care, wave of early retirement, reduction in immigration, increased disability and mortality, and probably more.] -- Also interesting in this story: "This week, Winston Plywood, through its investors, a Connecticut-based equity firm, announced a new wage structure." Access to capital. If policy makers want employers to increase wages, we need to consider how to make it happen. I'm totally onboard with using pandemic crisis cheddar (governmental largess) to provide capital to distressed businesses. Especially locally owned. Loans, grants, debt forgiveness, whatever. Corporations and trusts receive billions. That'll never stop. I just want some of that torrent of cash to go directly to where it will help the most. Versus waiting for it to "trickle down".

deleted 5y ago

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