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20 years experience, two books under my belt, and lead architect (with a CTO title) on several good sized projects and most I have ever gotten in $175k... every
by throwaway2016a 5y ago
20 years experience, two books under my belt, and lead architect (with a CTO title) on several good sized projects and most I have ever gotten in $175k... every time I see an article like this, I think I am doing something "very wrong"
I live about 40 miles outside of Boston.
Edit: Looking at levels.fyi for Boston that actually puts me above the median[1]. Why the heck is Boston so low compared to other markets?
Edit 2: Boston, MA and Denver, CO on Levels.fyi are both a median $159k but due to cost of living, that $159k in Denver is the same as $211k in Boston. I.e. adjusted for the cost of living, Denver pays 25% better.
[1] https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Greater-Boston-Area/ https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Greater-Bo...
- sokoloff 5y agoThe money is out there and $175K/yr is nowhere near the top of the market for your experience in the Boston area. That’s not to say you’re doing something wrong if you’re optimizing for the many things other than money that are worthwhile.
- throwaway2016a 5y agoNot near the top, no, but according to the numbers it is median. I'm sure there are larger salaries out there but this article makes it sound like it is normal. Which in a roundabout way was my point.
- lotsofpulp 5y agoMedian is not a useful measure in these matters. Deciles, or even quintiles, would actually be useful.
- zamfi 5y agoYou are doing something very wrong. Look at that median and ask yourself: Why would you compare yourself to median income if you have 20 yoe and two books? That is far more than the median SWE has accomplished. You are paying a lot in opportunity cost for whatever you are doing now. Of course, it could be worth it! That’s for you to decide.
- ecshafer 5y agoBoston has a lot of robotics which seems to pay less for some reason (less profitable? Can't scale as cheaply?) and biotech which pays less. That could be one cause.
- pvarangot 5y agoIt's harder to transfer on robotics and biotech as ramping up a projects takes a long time and there's a lot of bespoke tooling. In my experience the jobs that pay the most are where engineers can switch and quickly be productive, as the main force actually driving salaries up are people quitting for a higher pay. The company hiring you for more than average needs you to be productive quickly.
- hnxs 5y agoit’s easier to offshore why? i don’t know, it’s definitely not any easier work. but it’s reflected in the comp
- lotsofpulp 5y agoIn order to negotiate high compensation, you must be selling something in high demand and selling to someone with lots of cash (or cash equivalent like FAANG RSU). I suspect robotics companies’ cash flow does not look like the FAANG company’s.
- dfadsadsf 5y agoWould you work on increasing ad click rate by 0.01% or on playing with cool tech toys and solving hard robotics problem? This is the same as SpaceX being able to pay under market - what you do matter and people are ready to take paycut to work on intersting problems.
- ceras 5y agoThe levels.fyi number you're looking at is across companies, so it's skewed by the type of companies hiring SWE's in Boston vs the Bay Area, which have different pay scales. Large Bay Area tech companies (e.g. FAANG) pay Boston SWE's pretty close[0] to what they pay SF SWE's. If you use the "Robert Half" site[1] from the original article, it says Boston is +34% compared to US baseline (vs SF's +42%, NYC's +40.5%) which roughly lines up. [0] Google: https://www.levels.fyi/company/Google/salaries/Software-Engineer/L5/Greater-Boston-Area/ https://www.levels.fyi/company/Google/salaries/Software-Engi... vs https://www.levels.fyi/company/Google/salaries/Software-Engineer/L5/San-Francisco-Bay-Area/ https://www.levels.fyi/company/Google/salaries/Software-Engi... [1] https://www.roberthalf.com/salary-guide/specialization/technology https://www.roberthalf.com/salary-guide/specialization/techn...
- throwaway2016a 5y agoJust at first look it seems the 50th percentile is roughly the same (slightly higher) on the Robert Half numbers. But either way, not everyone can work for FAANG, so I think looking at the overall picture is fair. I'm pretty confident even with 20 years of experience and I can't even get a FAANG interview (let alone pass it), I'm just not their type.
- tyingq 5y agoRobert Half only includes base salary. I can't cut and paste from their pdf, but see https://www.ficpa.org/Content/Files/Docs/Futurecpas/2019%20RH%20Salary%20Guide.pdf https://www.ficpa.org/Content/Files/Docs/Futurecpas/2019%20R... , page 11. The levels.fyi median seems to be on total comp. The Robert Half data seems more likely to be accurate.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago> even with 20 years of experience and I can't even get a FAANG interview (let alone pass it) If you want one, I've never had the impression that getting an interview was the hard part. I participated in Google Code Jam maybe 9 years ago, passed either 0 or 1 rounds (there's a "qualification round" which I definitely passed, and later a "round 1" which I have a feeling I probably didn't pass), and every so often they offer me an interview unprompted because of that.
- tubby12345 5y ago>every time I see an article like this, I think I am doing something "very wrong" there's a comment like this in every single thread like this. and the recommendation is always the same: grind LC for however long you need in order to be comfortable solving hard problems cleanly in 35-45 minutes and then collect your pay bump. the fact that the 1. data 2. complaint 3. recommendation crop up with 100% perfect regularity means that it's the solution that simply isn't palatable to all of the people that express the complaint. to which i say: what exactly are you expecting to give among these three things?
- jrochkind1 5y agoWhat's "grind LC"?
- loeg 5y agoDo practice exercises on LeetCode.
- throwaway2016a 5y agoIt was data. The "I must be doing something wrong" was tongue in cheek. The specific data point was that I am not seeing any salaries anywhere near that. And Salary.com actually backs me up. Just the fact "grind Leet Code" is a recommendation to someone who's most recent job title was CTO and has written two books may be a sign these interviews are broken. But point taken, I'm sure if I studied specifically for interviews I could get those jobs. But the fact remains, a vast majority of people don't work for FAANG and even the "person unwilling to work for FAANG" example is higher salary than I have ever seen. My point was actually that the article and ones like this seem well research but don't match the reality. For example, I recently interviewed at a fortune 100 company for a Director position and it was what this article says is "non-FAANG staff engineer" salary.
- wiseowise 5y ago> Just the fact "grind Leet Code" is a recommendation to someone who's most recent job title was CTO and has written two books may be a sign these interviews are broken. Well, I'm sorry you have to go through the same ropes that we peasants do, you highness.
- Kinrany 5y agoHow many CTOs that wrote two books are there around Boston?
- dreyfan 5y ago[removed to protect identity of the author]
- farnsworth 5y agoThere are tons of results so what's your point?
- throwaway2016a 5y agoI mostly just like to be able to comment as a nobody and not in any of my official capacities. I'm not a troll account, nothing in my comments here would hurt my career, so really... go ahead. Not sure why anyone would want to, though. shrug With that said I am in those search results (I checked) :-P if anyone wants to go through 63,000 people, be my guest. Everyone needs a hobby :)
- jameshart 5y agoGo to any little league practice in MetroWest, look over at the dads. Not the guy in the fleece vest - he works for a consulting firm or something. The two guys next to him, though? Both of them are ex CTOs. Only one of them wrote two books though.
- eminence32 5y agoIt seems like a lot of HN readers are continually playing the "maximize salary" game and use like articles like this one to figure out how well they're doing. If you want to play that game, then good luck, have fun. I understand the desire. But it's not for everyone. Are you able to live comfortably on $175k per year? Do you enjoy what you do and the people that you work with? If so, I don't think there should be any shame in staying where you are. Don't feel like you have to chase every last dollar.
- foota 5y agoHonestly, I make 300k TC and joined one company out of college and stayed there for the last 4 years. I live in Seattle. I just want to show that not everyone making > 200k switches companies every 2 years trying to minmax.
- therealdrag0 5y agoHow much of that is from your stock that you got 4 years ago vesting while the market has gone up? Or is your newly infused grants and cash 300?
- foota 5y agoThat's both currently the amount I am getting per year towards my bank account and the amount I'm being granted per year * 4 + cash (I got promoted ~a year ago, meaning my new grants though missing the time value have a higher dollar value at grant time)
- aiisjustanif 5y agoThe argument is money isn’t everything. You left after the 4 year cliff. That’s hardly an argument against keeping the same or higher TC though.
- foota 5y agoActually I'm still there :-) Nothing against people trying to move and make more, but I just want to let people know that you don't _have_ to do that to be successful (plus refute people that might claim that it's the only way to do so in tech)
- eegg7 5y agoThe best thing I did for my career was leave Boston for an entry level FANG job on the West Coast 10 years ago. I currently make more than 10x what I was making in Boston. But it has been a grind no doubt. And probably some luck.
- thefourthchime 5y agoMostly the same. I left Austin for SFO and FAANG 10 years ago. I made so much more, that when my previous company sold and some of my friends got 1m+ in stock, i had made more simply in salary moving.
- throwaway2016a 5y agoI had the chance to do that in 2009 and my wife (then fiancé) and I decided to stay close to family. I often wonder if that was a mistake...
- lotsofpulp 5y agoDepends what your goals were or are. It is also unproductive to evaluate previous decisions with information that was not available at that time.
- jdavis703 5y agoI did the opposite of you and question if I made a mistake. I’m not sad about it. Just thinking through the “what ifs” after being gone so long. It’s natural. But if you’re happy today, why change?
- matthewbauer 5y agoSorry, 10x seems like a crazy difference when talking about salary. Could you be more specific? I’m trying to figure out numbers that make sense. Like you were getting $30,000 a year in 2011 and now getting $300,000+ in 2021? In the same field? Either the Boston salary was crazy low or fang salary is crazy high.
- bertr4nd 5y ago
- diskzero 5y agoIf you have a family that loves you, manageable stress levels and a purpose in life, I think you are doing a lot of things right. I am sure you are worth more! There are probably ways to increase your compensation and maintain your quality of life, but is it really worth it?
- WoahNoun 5y agoYou should have negotiated for equity. That's where all the real money is. RSUs/ISOs/NSOs whatever. If you were CTO of a revenue generating project and didn't get a % of the business, that is what you did wrong.
- kyawzazaw 5y agoI earn about 60% of yours with 0 YoE with no leetcode process in a state without income tax. I think you can easily do better.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- rufus_foreman 5y agoYou were happy a little bit ago and now you're not. You think you're doing something wrong. Comparison is the thief of joy. Do your job.
- throwaway_proto 5y agoI'm also based in Boston, senior dev (FAANG generalist, ~10 years of experience). I make about $200k plus ~$100k RSU/year on average. Previous FAANG paid ~$140k + ~100k RSU/year. I believe my peers make more, and the info I have on CTO salaries at various startups would put $175k on the low end of the CTO pay scale. If I were you, strictly from a financial point of view, I'd probably test the market to see what offers I get.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 5y agoHow many of your employers have the cash flow that FAANG companies have. The idea that non-FAANG companies should be able to match FAANG salaries regardless of what non-FAANG companies have to spend on staff seems a rather distorted concept. As the article mentions, FAANG could actually be paying their employees much more. They can afford it, easily.
- lumost 5y agoFellow Bostonian here, You need to look at large cap publicly traded tech companies. There are a few home grown publicly traded Boston employers such as HubSpot, and to a lesser extent Wayfair which pay competitively. However there are also large presences from Salesforce, Amazon, Google, Microsoft, FB, Spotify and others who pay more competitively.
- LindyTalker 5y agoI taught my friend to code in a year and he did one of the intensive bootcamps. First job ever. A healthcare company in NYC is paying him 155 + 20% bonus. You're getting hosed
- whycombagator 5y agoRemote or in office?
- LindyTalker 5y agoremote, nyc based though
- Cd00d 5y agoAt the same time, I see mostly listings for director of data science or vp analytics at a ton of small businesses or startups that require a PhD and 5 extra years experience offering a cap of $80k.
- tschwimmer 5y agoYou are in the wrong place. The top salaries are exclusvively in the Bay Area and New York.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- mathattack 5y agoLots of highly educated grads in Boston relative to jobs. (Compared to Denver)
- pyuser583 5y agoOk I have but a fraction of your experience and make more. And live in a much lower cost if living area. I’m extremely mobile. Not like permanently move mobile. But I’ll take contracting work that require me to move to NY or London or whatever. Very job bumps my salary up. If I have to switch continents I will. Home is always my low cost of living place, and in practice I spend the majority of time there. I know most people aren’t like this. And most people don’t have spouses who tolerate this. My wife is either very understanding, or maybe she just doesn’t like me that much. But if I’m like, honey, I have to move to Austin a for six months, she’s like “Ok, just be home for Thanksgiving.”
- acjohnson55 5y agoThis topic certainly does bring out the shittiest commentary on this site, both in tone and content. Congrats on making an income I could have only dreamed of as a college kid. I've made very little money and FAANG-like money in my career. It has nothing to do with the difficulty of the work, the impact, or the hiring process. It's purely how badly the company wants "top" talent and the extent to which they want to / have to use money as a magnet.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- helen___keller 5y agoI live in Boston, 6 years of experience. I just went through the big tech thing for the first time. I got an offer from two of them and ended up almost doubling my total income (salary about the same but adding a ton of RSU and cash bonus). I did not grind leetcode, but I do know my data structures and I practiced enough to code basic algorithms without googling for method names or syntax. I spent more time practicing anecdotes, which is the part of the big tech interview where they ask questions like “describe a time you identified a customer issue and went outside your role to resolve it” From my experience no company founded in Boston pays top end wages. This job search I only considered big tech side offices in Boston and remote roles for Silicon Valley companies. My recommendation: find some data points on Levels.fyi that match your experience/level, location, and desired TC. If there’s a bunch of data points, then it’s possible. Interview with every employer listed in these data points, and don’t take a job if it’s less than your desired TC. The market is hot and you are in control.
- qDnbBcCnsZneEJg 5y agoI just landed a staff+ faang role over 700k and I’m 20 mi outside Boston. Boston is a joke. Growing up here my whole life I thought we were right behind SV. Boy was I wrong. Seattle, NYC, and Austin have all eclipsed Boston as a tech hub. It’s embarrassing. Apply for remote. Now you’re exposed to companies based in SV. This is the time to do it - The Great Resignation has made jobs plentiful with unreal comp. Also study up. The best positions are the hardest to get into. Give yourself 3 months to study and these opportunities will be yours for the taking. You clearly have the skills, you just need to put yourself out there.