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I use GraphineOS and LineageOS without Google Play Services. They are great and are suitable replacements for Apple and Google. - Osmand(FOSS) for maps (suppor

I use GraphineOS and LineageOS without Google Play Services. They are great and are suitable replacements for Apple and Google. - Osmand(FOSS) for maps (supports being fully offline!) - Signal and Discord for messaging (Discord is sandboxed) - Newpipe(FOSS) for Youtube - F-droid(FOSS) for my FOSS appstore - APKmirror for the few non-free apps I need - Libretorrent(FOSS) and VLC(FOSS) for watching movies - Firefox(FOSS) and Vanadium(FOSS) for browser - K9 Mail(FOSS) for email - Infinity(FOSS) for Reddit - Secur(FOSS) for 2FA - Taskkeeper(FOSS) for reminders Almost everything you need is in the F-droid FOSS app repository. It all works, and it works well. You can buy a used Pixel 3a for around $80 on Ebay and have a better experience in every category than iOS, hardware and software. The only limitation is push notifications, which isn't a problem because FOSS apps like Signal bundle their own notification system that does not use Google Play Services. Discord however, does not get push notifications (which I wouldn't want anyway)

krageon 5y ago
OSMAnd is visually difficult to parse (especially at a glance) and fairly complicated to use. It is not a good map app.
- ptidhomme 5y ago
  I had the same feeling. I now use Organic Maps which I find much better.
- phh 5y ago
  Fun, I guess this is just a question of habit. Nowadays I use OSMAnd mostly, and when I have to use Google's Maps (OSMAnd's search isn't great, and public transportation isn't there), I'm lost, and the app never shows the information I want. It's happened to me a lot of times with Google's Maps (with regard to how frequent I use Google's Maps) that I'm looking for something, I KNOW it's there, I'm searching for it (like "groceries" for a grocery store), and the only way Google's Maps would ever show it to me is by zooming it until the ONLY thing on screen is building, and then it does display it.
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago
Almost all of these just need a browser, without any apps. I personally don't need any notifications, but I'm retired so it's easier.
technerder 5y ago
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "Discord is sandboxed"? Are you using an app to sandbox it?
- Steltek 5y ago
  Could be using [Shelter](https://github.com/PeterCxy/Shelter https://github.com/PeterCxy/Shelter) to isolate apps. I don't know how effective it really is.
  - commoner 5y ago
    Insular is another app that activates the Android work profile: https://secure-system.gitlab.io/Insular/ https://secure-system.gitlab.io/Insular/ Both Shelter and Insular are effective for isolating your files, contacts, and phone logs in each profile. If you are using a VPN, it is limited to the profile that the VPN app is installed on, and you need to install and run it again on the other profile to cover the apps in that profile.
mattl 5y ago
If you wanted to install something like WhatsApp or Lyft would it work?
- salusinarduis 5y ago
  Yes they will work, however to get notifications when the apps are closed you would need to have to some form of Google Play Services. I suggest MicroG if you are intending to do this since it seems to be the least invasive. In my personal case though, I would still not use MicroG, and would just leave the app open until I am done using it. This is easier on Android because apps are not suspended in the same manner iOS apps are.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    What about when the phone locks? My phone is set to autolock after 1 minute. Leaving an app open just to receive notifications seems like a waste of battery.
    - salusinarduis 5y ago
      If your phone is locked you will most likely not get the notifications, it just depends on the app. I do agree it can waste battery. It's important to remember this is only a concern on non-free apps. The FOSS apps have very low power background services that check for notifications without the app running.
    - uhtred 5y ago
      I use /e/os. It is based on LineageOS, is completely de-googled and has MicroG integrated. MicroG means push notifications with apps like WhatsApp will work. https://e.foundation/ https://e.foundation/
deft 5y ago
There's an app available on f-droid called Aurora Store that lets you download apks from the Play Store directly, avoiding the need for stuff like APKMirror (where you don't know where or what happens to the apk you're downloading). On desktop you can use the program Raccoon for the same.
- salusinarduis 5y ago
  Thanks for the suggestion!
dgan 5y ago
Do banking applications work? I mean as in "I buy X online. It requires me to login to my bank application and press 'confirm'. I perform this sequence, and online purchase is completed. "?
- sorry_outta_gas 5y ago
  I just use the website
- salusinarduis 5y ago
  Some will, however I have heard some of these apps have janky hooks into Android's trust system which will break them on non-google distros. Personally I wouldn't suggest having banking apps on a phone. You can always use the web browser if you absolutely must access those accounts.
  - dgan 5y ago
    I will try to do so with web account, however I doubt it will work..
  - Kubuxu 5y ago
    Most banks in EU require phone app based confirmations for transfers and other operations (according to PDS2 directive). Visa and Mastercard also introduced 3DSecrue system which piggybacks on the same system of confirmations. Vendors are incentivised to adopt it by lower rates. In essence when paying with card or making a wire transfer (or using some instant transfer method, for example Blik in Poland), you get notification on you phone asking you to confirm operation, even if you initiate it from your account in the browser. In essence Bank apps became 2FA devices. The only way to avoid it is to opt-out of the App 2FA and use paper one-time code pad. You regularly then get sent a list of codes by snail mail, which you have to type to confirm operations.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - 5y ago
daneel_w 5y ago
> ...and have a better experience in every category than iOS, hardware and software. Really? I tried GrapheneOS on a Pixel 4A, and without exaggerating or trying to come off sensationalist the experience was really tepid compared to iOS, and even "normal" Android. Stuttering and jerky UI (which often also wanted to take a brief nap), very poor GPU hardware acceleration support, notably worse battery life, loads of things that just didn't work well (or at all) without Gapps, and trying to get Play Services shoe-horned into GrapheneOS was still quite the bug-ridden hassle. Additionally, the Open Camera app produced rubbish results compared to Google's native Android camera app, which matters a lot to me.
- busterarm 5y ago
  I run GrapheneOS on a 4A with TMobile and the frequent reports of people trying to call me telling me my line is out of service and days where calls won't initiate from my phone at all makes me want to run back to my iPhone. The tethering seems to be pretty flakey as well with me often having to reboot the phone.
  - margalabargala 5y ago
    I've been using GrapheneOS on a 4A with TMobile as my daily driver for over a year and have had none of these issues. Never had an out-of-service notice from someone calling me, never had a call not initiate, and tethering works great. Maybe it's something to do with OpenGapps? I never installed it or microG, I'm perfectly happy with just Fdroid.
- salusinarduis 5y ago
  I'm surprised to hear you say that. I've played the most demanding Android games on the Pixel 3a with no issues. I've never experienced anything but a butter smooth UI on Graphine or Lineage to be honest. The battery life has been all day for me even when using GBA emulators for multiple hours a day. I agree the default camera app of Graphine isn't great, but it's picture quality better than the iPhone I came from (iPhone SE gen1)
  - 5y ago
thastings 5y ago
I use the exact same setup, works like a charm. I can definitely recommend it for anyone concerned with the privacy issues of current mobile OSes. Furthermore, it never feels limited after getting used to this suit of apps, which may take up to a week at most.
Scramblejams 5y ago
What do you use for photo management?
- commoner 5y ago
  The default Gallery app is functional, and there are other FOSS options such as LeafPic and Simple Gallery. - LeafPic Revived: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.alienpants.leafpicrevived/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.alienpants.leafpicrevive... - Simple Gallery Pro: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.simplemobiletools.gallery.pro/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.simplemobiletools.galler... If you are looking for a hosted service to back up your photos, Stingle is an end-to-end encrypted photo hosting service. Alternatively, you can use Nextcloud to self-host. Both are FOSS on the client side, and Nextcloud is also FOSS on the server side. - Stingle: https://stingle.org https://stingle.org - Les Pas gallery app for Nextcloud: https://github.com/scubajeff/lespas https://github.com/scubajeff/lespas
1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
You mentioned Signal and Discord for "messaging". Can you or someone else confirm that video calls work with GrapheneOS or LineageOS. I am getting ready to try these but I am still not sure video calling works. When reading about them I cannot find much discussion of this particular application.
- commoner 5y ago
  I can confirm that video calls work in Signal on Android flavors that don't use Google Play Services, including both GrapheneOS and LineageOS.
  - 1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
    Thank you. Much appreciated. :) (Perhaps WhatsApp might work as well, since, IME, it can be sideloaded and will work without a functional Google Play Services.)
    - salusinarduis 5y ago
      Signal is specifically designed to work without Google Play Services, so expect a 1:1 experience when using it with these privacy conscious distros. I'm confident Whatsapp will work, but I have not tried. Push notifications will not work without Google Play Services.
      - commoner 5y ago
        According to Plexus, WhatsApp works perfectly on Android without Google Play Services, whether or not you have microG installed.[1] I think they implement their own push notification system if you download directly from them,[2] though I haven't confirmed this. Discord works perfectly with microG, and has a 3/4 rating without it since notifications will only work if you have microG. [1] https://plexus.techlore.tech/applications/whats-app https://plexus.techlore.tech/applications/whats-app [2] https://www.whatsapp.com/android/ https://www.whatsapp.com/android/ [3] https://plexus.techlore.tech/applications/discord https://plexus.techlore.tech/applications/discord
tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
I've tried Osmand and found it way too slow/janky for everyday use (since it has to render the tiles locally and doesn't seem to pre-render for scrolling). Newpipe loads videos much slower than the official app and occasionally fails completely (likely because YouTube changed something). F-droid (regular, non-root install) shows me notifications to update apps, then when I tap them, I get a "there was a problem parsing the package" - this is a bug that has remained unfixed for over 5 years (https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient/-/issues/669 https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient/-/issues/669). It's not impossible to use a FOSS phone, but it's truly painful.
- dr_hooo 5y ago
  As mentioned elsewhere, Organic Maps provides a much smoother OSM experience (fork of older maps.me version)
- salusinarduis 5y ago
  If you don't like Newpipe you can use Youtube Vanced which is basically a pwned version of the native Youtube app. I've had some stutters with Newpipe but overall I like it. Osmand really isn't bad, sure it's a little bit slower to render but we're talking maybe 500-1000ms on a Pixel 3a. Regarding F-Droid you're right it is quite buggy, but thankfully once you've got the apps you want you don't really need to use it except to update.
  - hkt 5y ago
    Skytube is also a good YT client available on F-Droid
gnull 5y ago
I just reinstalled my FP2 with LineageOS and microG after reading your post.
porjo 5y ago
Thanks for the list! > You can buy a used Pixel 3a for around $80 on Ebay It's worth noting that GrapheneOS recommend Pixel 4a or newer for best support: https://grapheneos.org/faq#recommended-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#recommended-devices
xzjis 5y ago
I prefer FairEmail (FOSS) over K9 Mail because it's more modern. I also recommend CutTheCord as a Discord client. It's not FOSS because it's based on the official client but it's privacy oriented. https://gitdab.com/distok/cutthecord https://gitdab.com/distok/cutthecord
ptidhomme 5y ago
Same here. I can also recommend : - Organic Maps which is cleaner than Osmand - KeepassDX for password management - AntennaPod for podcasts - I have a Tutanota email address. Their app is fully open source, downloadable on FDroid's main repos.
- markenqualitaet 5y ago
  Organic maps isn't there yet IMO. OSMand is huge, but it's the only app to match Google Maps features. I can also recommend BRouter (with OSMand) for bike navigation. It's ugly and hacky, but once it works, bike navigation is much, much better than Gmaps'. E.g. it's not sending you down cobblestone roads all the time.

krageon 5y ago

OSMAnd is visually difficult to parse (especially at a glance) and fairly complicated to use. It is not a good map app.

ptidhomme 5y ago
I had the same feeling. I now use Organic Maps which I find much better.
phh 5y ago
Fun, I guess this is just a question of habit. Nowadays I use OSMAnd mostly, and when I have to use Google's Maps (OSMAnd's search isn't great, and public transportation isn't there), I'm lost, and the app never shows the information I want. It's happened to me a lot of times with Google's Maps (with regard to how frequent I use Google's Maps) that I'm looking for something, I KNOW it's there, I'm searching for it (like "groceries" for a grocery store), and the only way Google's Maps would ever show it to me is by zooming it until the ONLY thing on screen is building, and then it does display it.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago

Almost all of these just need a browser, without any apps. I personally don't need any notifications, but I'm retired so it's easier.

technerder 5y ago

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "Discord is sandboxed"? Are you using an app to sandbox it?

Steltek 5y ago
Could be using [Shelter](https://github.com/PeterCxy/Shelter https://github.com/PeterCxy/Shelter) to isolate apps. I don't know how effective it really is.
- commoner 5y ago
  Insular is another app that activates the Android work profile: https://secure-system.gitlab.io/Insular/ https://secure-system.gitlab.io/Insular/ Both Shelter and Insular are effective for isolating your files, contacts, and phone logs in each profile. If you are using a VPN, it is limited to the profile that the VPN app is installed on, and you need to install and run it again on the other profile to cover the apps in that profile.

mattl 5y ago

If you wanted to install something like WhatsApp or Lyft would it work?

salusinarduis 5y ago
Yes they will work, however to get notifications when the apps are closed you would need to have to some form of Google Play Services. I suggest MicroG if you are intending to do this since it seems to be the least invasive. In my personal case though, I would still not use MicroG, and would just leave the app open until I am done using it. This is easier on Android because apps are not suspended in the same manner iOS apps are.
- dylan604 5y ago
  What about when the phone locks? My phone is set to autolock after 1 minute. Leaving an app open just to receive notifications seems like a waste of battery.
  - salusinarduis 5y ago
    If your phone is locked you will most likely not get the notifications, it just depends on the app. I do agree it can waste battery. It's important to remember this is only a concern on non-free apps. The FOSS apps have very low power background services that check for notifications without the app running.
  - uhtred 5y ago
    I use /e/os. It is based on LineageOS, is completely de-googled and has MicroG integrated. MicroG means push notifications with apps like WhatsApp will work. https://e.foundation/ https://e.foundation/

deft 5y ago

There's an app available on f-droid called Aurora Store that lets you download apks from the Play Store directly, avoiding the need for stuff like APKMirror (where you don't know where or what happens to the apk you're downloading). On desktop you can use the program Raccoon for the same.

salusinarduis 5y ago
Thanks for the suggestion!

dgan 5y ago

Do banking applications work? I mean as in "I buy X online. It requires me to login to my bank application and press 'confirm'. I perform this sequence, and online purchase is completed. "?

sorry_outta_gas 5y ago
I just use the website
salusinarduis 5y ago
Some will, however I have heard some of these apps have janky hooks into Android's trust system which will break them on non-google distros. Personally I wouldn't suggest having banking apps on a phone. You can always use the web browser if you absolutely must access those accounts.
- dgan 5y ago
  I will try to do so with web account, however I doubt it will work..
- Kubuxu 5y ago
  Most banks in EU require phone app based confirmations for transfers and other operations (according to PDS2 directive). Visa and Mastercard also introduced 3DSecrue system which piggybacks on the same system of confirmations. Vendors are incentivised to adopt it by lower rates. In essence when paying with card or making a wire transfer (or using some instant transfer method, for example Blik in Poland), you get notification on you phone asking you to confirm operation, even if you initiate it from your account in the browser. In essence Bank apps became 2FA devices. The only way to avoid it is to opt-out of the App 2FA and use paper one-time code pad. You regularly then get sent a list of codes by snail mail, which you have to type to confirm operations.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - 5y ago

daneel_w 5y ago

> ...and have a better experience in every category than iOS, hardware and software. Really? I tried GrapheneOS on a Pixel 4A, and without exaggerating or trying to come off sensationalist the experience was really tepid compared to iOS, and even "normal" Android. Stuttering and jerky UI (which often also wanted to take a brief nap), very poor GPU hardware acceleration support, notably worse battery life, loads of things that just didn't work well (or at all) without Gapps, and trying to get Play Services shoe-horned into GrapheneOS was still quite the bug-ridden hassle. Additionally, the Open Camera app produced rubbish results compared to Google's native Android camera app, which matters a lot to me.

busterarm 5y ago
I run GrapheneOS on a 4A with TMobile and the frequent reports of people trying to call me telling me my line is out of service and days where calls won't initiate from my phone at all makes me want to run back to my iPhone. The tethering seems to be pretty flakey as well with me often having to reboot the phone.
- margalabargala 5y ago
  I've been using GrapheneOS on a 4A with TMobile as my daily driver for over a year and have had none of these issues. Never had an out-of-service notice from someone calling me, never had a call not initiate, and tethering works great. Maybe it's something to do with OpenGapps? I never installed it or microG, I'm perfectly happy with just Fdroid.
salusinarduis 5y ago
I'm surprised to hear you say that. I've played the most demanding Android games on the Pixel 3a with no issues. I've never experienced anything but a butter smooth UI on Graphine or Lineage to be honest. The battery life has been all day for me even when using GBA emulators for multiple hours a day. I agree the default camera app of Graphine isn't great, but it's picture quality better than the iPhone I came from (iPhone SE gen1)
- 5y ago

thastings 5y ago

I use the exact same setup, works like a charm. I can definitely recommend it for anyone concerned with the privacy issues of current mobile OSes. Furthermore, it never feels limited after getting used to this suit of apps, which may take up to a week at most.

Scramblejams 5y ago

What do you use for photo management?

commoner 5y ago
The default Gallery app is functional, and there are other FOSS options such as LeafPic and Simple Gallery. - LeafPic Revived: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.alienpants.leafpicrevived/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.alienpants.leafpicrevive... - Simple Gallery Pro: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.simplemobiletools.gallery.pro/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.simplemobiletools.galler... If you are looking for a hosted service to back up your photos, Stingle is an end-to-end encrypted photo hosting service. Alternatively, you can use Nextcloud to self-host. Both are FOSS on the client side, and Nextcloud is also FOSS on the server side. - Stingle: https://stingle.org https://stingle.org - Les Pas gallery app for Nextcloud: https://github.com/scubajeff/lespas https://github.com/scubajeff/lespas

1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago

You mentioned Signal and Discord for "messaging". Can you or someone else confirm that video calls work with GrapheneOS or LineageOS. I am getting ready to try these but I am still not sure video calling works. When reading about them I cannot find much discussion of this particular application.

commoner 5y ago
I can confirm that video calls work in Signal on Android flavors that don't use Google Play Services, including both GrapheneOS and LineageOS.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
  Thank you. Much appreciated. :) (Perhaps WhatsApp might work as well, since, IME, it can be sideloaded and will work without a functional Google Play Services.)
  - salusinarduis 5y ago
    Signal is specifically designed to work without Google Play Services, so expect a 1:1 experience when using it with these privacy conscious distros. I'm confident Whatsapp will work, but I have not tried. Push notifications will not work without Google Play Services.
    - commoner 5y ago
      According to Plexus, WhatsApp works perfectly on Android without Google Play Services, whether or not you have microG installed.[1] I think they implement their own push notification system if you download directly from them,[2] though I haven't confirmed this. Discord works perfectly with microG, and has a 3/4 rating without it since notifications will only work if you have microG. [1] https://plexus.techlore.tech/applications/whats-app https://plexus.techlore.tech/applications/whats-app [2] https://www.whatsapp.com/android/ https://www.whatsapp.com/android/ [3] https://plexus.techlore.tech/applications/discord https://plexus.techlore.tech/applications/discord

tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago

I've tried Osmand and found it way too slow/janky for everyday use (since it has to render the tiles locally and doesn't seem to pre-render for scrolling). Newpipe loads videos much slower than the official app and occasionally fails completely (likely because YouTube changed something). F-droid (regular, non-root install) shows me notifications to update apps, then when I tap them, I get a "there was a problem parsing the package" - this is a bug that has remained unfixed for over 5 years (https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient/-/issues/669 https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient/-/issues/669). It's not impossible to use a FOSS phone, but it's truly painful.

dr_hooo 5y ago
As mentioned elsewhere, Organic Maps provides a much smoother OSM experience (fork of older maps.me version)
salusinarduis 5y ago
If you don't like Newpipe you can use Youtube Vanced which is basically a pwned version of the native Youtube app. I've had some stutters with Newpipe but overall I like it. Osmand really isn't bad, sure it's a little bit slower to render but we're talking maybe 500-1000ms on a Pixel 3a. Regarding F-Droid you're right it is quite buggy, but thankfully once you've got the apps you want you don't really need to use it except to update.
- hkt 5y ago
  Skytube is also a good YT client available on F-Droid

gnull 5y ago

I just reinstalled my FP2 with LineageOS and microG after reading your post.

porjo 5y ago

Thanks for the list! > You can buy a used Pixel 3a for around $80 on Ebay It's worth noting that GrapheneOS recommend Pixel 4a or newer for best support: https://grapheneos.org/faq#recommended-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#recommended-devices

xzjis 5y ago

I prefer FairEmail (FOSS) over K9 Mail because it's more modern. I also recommend CutTheCord as a Discord client. It's not FOSS because it's based on the official client but it's privacy oriented. https://gitdab.com/distok/cutthecord https://gitdab.com/distok/cutthecord

ptidhomme 5y ago

Same here. I can also recommend : - Organic Maps which is cleaner than Osmand - KeepassDX for password management - AntennaPod for podcasts - I have a Tutanota email address. Their app is fully open source, downloadable on FDroid's main repos.

markenqualitaet 5y ago
Organic maps isn't there yet IMO. OSMand is huge, but it's the only app to match Google Maps features. I can also recommend BRouter (with OSMand) for bike navigation. It's ugly and hacky, but once it works, bike navigation is much, much better than Gmaps'. E.g. it's not sending you down cobblestone roads all the time.